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Mike Rugnetta: Friends, hello,
and welcome to NeverPost's

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jingle bell jingle bell jingle
bell mailbag twenty twenty five

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in which we respond to listener
emails, comments, voicemails,

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and voice messages about our
segments. A surprising number of

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missives this round delivered by
the mailman. Though they mostly

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appear to be poorly written
letters with awful handwriting

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requesting things like pop guns,
Lego sets, and puppies addressed

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to some guy who definitely does
not work here. Beginning to

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think there may have been a mix
up at the post office. Anyways,

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we're only a small Internet
show.

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We're gonna see what we can do
about all of these puppy

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requests. I'm your host, Mike
Rugnetta. Joining me here today

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in order of how likely I think
it is that they may have gotten

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their tongue frozen to a
flagpole as a child decreasing.

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Hans Buetow: Oh. Okay. So most
likely first.

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Mike Rugnetta: Oh. Based
entirely upon geography, never

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post senior producer Hans
Buteau. Yeah.

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Hans Buetow: My geography is
cold. It was nine degrees

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yesterday, max. It's been
snowing a lot recently. I live

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in the Twin Cities, and I grew
up here. So, yeah, absolutely.

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I have frozen here's I'm not

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Mike Rugnetta: frozen my tongue
too.

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Hans Buetow: Is the flagpole?
But you know how well,

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especially when you're a kid, I
was gonna say, you know how

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accidentally you lick your
zipper on your jacket once in a

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while. I mean, you don't. But
when you're a kid, you do. When

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you're

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Mike Rugnetta: a kid, you
absolutely do your thing.

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Hans Buetow: You you huddle
yeah. Exactly. Yes.

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Georgia Hampton: Huddle your
Sure.

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Hans Buetow: Sure. Middle is
exactly what you're

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Mike Rugnetta: talking about.

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Hans Buetow: Yes. And then your
tongue, like, glances against in

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its 16 below, and all of

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Mike Rugnetta: a sudden no
longer a glance.

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Hans Buetow: Yeah. Yeah. All of
a sudden, you're stuck to your

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zipper. That has happened Next
to

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Mike Rugnetta: in the roster,
based again entirely upon

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geography, friend of the show,
Meagle Janardan.

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Meghal Janardan: Yeah. I don't
think my tongue has ever frozen

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against anything, but I have
been slashed by ice. Woah.

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Slashed by ice. Sledding
accident.

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Oh. Classic.

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Mike Rugnetta: Let the audience
know that Meagle made a motion

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indicating that she got the
coolest, most badass injury in

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the world.

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An ice cut across the face.

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Never post producer Georgia
Hampton.

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Georgia Hampton: Okay. So I
think I literally have done

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this. Like, I have a vivid
memory of that specific feeling

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of my tongue being sucked to
something that's, like, very

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strong, and having to figure out
how to free myself and the panic

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of, like,

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Georgia Hampton: uh-oh, the
consequences of my actions.

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Mike Rugnetta: And finally,
never post executive producer

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Jason Oberholtzer.

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Jason Oberholtzer: I would never
do such a thing.

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Georgia Hampton: And I know
that.

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Georgia Hampton: Two watts.

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Jason Oberholtzer: Two My entire
life, I've been in a climate

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where that was available to me,
and yet I have decided to make a

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better choice every time it was
on offer. Wow. Okay.

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Mike Rugnetta: And that's why
Jason's the EP of the show,

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folks.

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Hans Buetow: Mike, have you had
such a thing happen?

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Mike Rugnetta: Oh, god. Yes.
Absolutely. Oh, wow. Oh.

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Georgia Hampton: Yeah. Yeah.
Wow. I mean,

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Mike Rugnetta: I would just
wander around my grandmother's

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house in Boston during this
during the Boston winters and

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just, you know, lick every piece
of metal I could possibly find.

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Jason Oberholtzer: That's what

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Georgia Hampton: I'm talking
about. Mike's

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Hans Buetow: a very lingual four
word. It's how Mike engages with

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a lot of the world.

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Mike Rugnetta: Heard about this
one guy in Connecticut who

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refused to, and I was like,
well, I gotta maintain balance

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in the universe.

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Jason Oberholtzer: So Yeah. Have
you ever considered making a

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better choice?

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Mike Rugnetta: You know? No.

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Georgia Hampton: Good.

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Mike Rugnetta: Anyways, let's
make a podcast.

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Jason Oberholtzer: Yeah.
Speaking of making bad choices,

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we've got a lot of mail. I'd
like to start us out like we

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normally do with some responses
to the previous mailbag and the

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subjects that came up there. And
as a reminder, everybody, there

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are many ways to get in touch
with us if you wanna be a part

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of these mailbags and look to
the show notes for all of them.

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So I have one email in
particular responding to some of

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the chatting you were doing last
mailbag that I thought was

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particularly relevant in the
holiday season.

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We're gonna do some spiritual
stuff, gang.

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Mike Rugnetta: You know, we have
we have joked in the past that

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this is a religious podcast. And
then have joked that the more

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that we make that joke
internally, the closer it gets

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to being weirdly kind of true.
Mhmm.

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Jason Oberholtzer: Well, I got
an email for you, bud. We're

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getting close. This comes from
Alex Friedman. I've been

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thinking about emailing the show
for some time because I love it.

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I'm a member, and because I'm a
rabbi.

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Oh. The last reason makes sense
only because Never Post was

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deeply influential to me and to
the high holiday sermon I just

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gave a week or so ago. Oh. I
spoke about Addictive

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Technologies, Neil Postman, and
focusing on local things you can

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actually influence over things
that are just designed to get

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you angry and impotently engaged
or enraged. Oh.

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I thought that might be too
boring to be worth an email, but

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then Mike mentioned in the
latest mailbag episode that he

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loves Rhode Island, and I'm in
Providence.

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Mike Rugnetta: I this is only
proving me more right that

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Providence that, yeah, Rhode
Island rules. Yeah.

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Jason Oberholtzer: I know y'all
are inclined to think

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politically about solutions to
crisis of the social Internet,

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but I'm a rabbi, at least in
part because I believe that

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religious institutions have a
crucial role to play. They are,

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by definition and necessity,
local. They are one of the last

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places, though this is becoming
less true in some places and

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ways, where people of different
politics and economic

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backgrounds come together
regularly in common purpose, and

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they are a bastion of communal
meaning making in a world that

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wants to teach us we are meant
only to consume alone and be

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angry. Mhmm. He concludes, I'm
happy to send the sermon along

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if you want to read it.

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I hope this note finds you well.
It does and I do, so please send

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it along.

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Mike Rugnetta: Yeah. I would
love to read that. Please send

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it along.

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Georgia Hampton: Yeah, please.
That sounds awesome.

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Hans Buetow: Incredible. So what
do we

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Jason Oberholtzer: think about
the role of a religious

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institution as one of the last
places where people of different

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political and economic
backgrounds come together in

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common purpose? Wasn't that
supposed to be the Internet?

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Mike Rugnetta: Interesting.
Mean, I wonder the degree to

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which this is true on the larger
scale. Like, I don't actually

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know, but it is extremely
heartening to read that it is at

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least true in some places.

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Georgia Hampton: Yeah. Yeah. I
do think there's very few in in

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world places. Sorry.

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Georgia Hampton: Oh, no. It's
not it's,

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Mike Rugnetta: you know, in
universe locations.

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Georgia Hampton: In universe.
Yeah.

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Georgia Hampton: Canonical. Is
this church canon? They say,

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Chad. This reminded me there's
an another conversation I've

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been following online right now
about movie theaters, kind of in

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a a sort of similar way of this
space in our real lived world

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where we are gathering together
for a shared goal, in the case

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of movie theaters. And I imagine
in the case of religious

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institutions, the idea being
that you are not allowed to be

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on your phone, that there are
very few places left where that

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is explicitly understood.

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And in the things I've seen,
movie theaters obviously fall

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under that category, though many
people do not follow that. Mhmm.

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And I imagine the same is true
for religious institutions.

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Mike Rugnetta: I think it's
yeah. There's, like, relatively

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few places that you go where
there is some percentage of the

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group of people that is there
has a strong idea about how

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everybody is supposed to behave
while they're there and enforces

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that.

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Georgia Hampton: Yes.

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Mike Rugnetta: It's one of the
reasons I love metal and punk

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rock shows. Because when someone
gets out of line, there's a big

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group of people there who will
very gently, but very firmly say

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Meghal Janardan: Mhmm.

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Mike Rugnetta: We don't behave
that way here. It's not what

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this is for.

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Meghal Janardan: Yes. Do you
think a classroom will fall into

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that?

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Mike Rugnetta: That's a good
question. I and I wonder if the

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answer is different pre and post
device ban, which is really sort

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of sweeping the nation at this
very moment.

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Jason Oberholtzer: Mhmm. It's
almost like we have a natural

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inclination to desire some
structure and authority around

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us at times.

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Georgia Hampton: I mean It

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Jason Oberholtzer: can be nice.
It can

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Georgia Hampton: be nice.

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Georgia Hampton: That's not very
girl boss slay.

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Georgia Hampton: We gotta take
our medicine sometimes. Yeah.

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Meghal Janardan: But interesting
about that comment is that it

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implies that having a device
around you is anti structure in

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some way, where I would argue
that having a phone on you is

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following a different set of
rules. Like Yes. The people who

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want you to hold your phone all
the time and want to be online,

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and that's a different
environment with its own rules.

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It just clashes with a movie
theater, a church Yes. A

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synagogue, what have you.

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Jason Oberholtzer: Yeah. Yeah.
It is in some ways in, like,

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conflict that you're walking
around with a social compact in

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your pocket that's very
different from the spaces you

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move between

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Mike Rugnetta: Yes. That have

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Jason Oberholtzer: different
social compacts.

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Georgia Hampton: Yeah. Like it's
not just that it's different,

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it's that it's like directly in
opposition to those spaces.

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Jason Oberholtzer: Well, because
they're both kind of asking the

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same thing, which is that they
want you to be here. Yeah. They

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just happen to be co located and
at odds.

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Meghal Janardan: Mhmm. We got
some responses to the segment I

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worked on on New Luddism. One of
them from a friend of the show,

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Talia. Talia wrote in, what a
great episode. Love your work,

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Meagle.

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Thank you. It just so happened
that Jathan Sadowski was holding

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a Luddite tribunal at the local
public library last night. So,

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of course, I had to mosey down
and have a gander. Although the

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analysis and antics were fun,
the library had risk assess

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smashing things and found it,
well, risky. Instead, they

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commissioned, quote, Enoch
shredder, unquote, to shred

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paper icons of the technology we
deem smash able.

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Jason Oberholtzer: Amazing. That
is suspicious.

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Georgia Hampton: I'll put it on.

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Meghal Janardan: Fun little
tautological knots aside, I

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guess the event didn't delve
into the questions I feel most

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strongly about, and these were
the ones I think this episode

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tackled. Like, generally, one of
the most important questions to

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me is, can you even smash a
virtual machine? There

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definitely feels like there is
an important moment going on in

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which capital is trying to make
its instruments less contingent

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on labor. Maybe more clearly
stated, are they making the

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machines networked and virtual
with protective intention? Can

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tools of this nature ever be
democratized?

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I would question, is it really
virtual? I I I think that that

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maybe is something that a lot of
companies are having us think is

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that, you know, like, the cloud
is in the cloud when a lot of

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technology is not there there's
a physical aspect to all the

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technology that we engage with.
We just kind of are being more

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and more removed from it. Yes. I
also think that, you know, if

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we're not gonna go mosey our way
down to a data center, maybe

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another way to look at smashing
virtual technology is through

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boycotting.

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Hans Buetow: It reminds me,
Meaghel, of of what they were

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talking about, of what
especially Mohammed was talking

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about in the interview about all
the different types of sabotage

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that exist.

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Meghal Janardan: Yes. Yes. Yeah.
Mohammed and Emily were talking

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about that it's not always about
smashing a physical piece of

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technology. You know, there's
other ways to resist and kind of

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break down the technology even
through using it.

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Mike Rugnetta: You have to smash
the Epson printer in your heart

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00:11:35,895 --> 00:11:36,535
first.

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Georgia Hampton: Oh my god.

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Meghal Janardan: Next up, we got
an email from Julia Fisher in

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00:11:43,450 --> 00:11:48,650
response to the episode I worked
on about my attention span. This

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episode made me think about my
own relationship with my phone

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usage and particularly short
form video. In about twenty

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twenty two, I was halfway across
the road when I realized that I

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had been using TikTok without
enjoying it for months. I took

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that moment to delete the app
and have never gone back. I

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00:12:04,255 --> 00:12:07,310
could feel how the app had its
hooks in my brain, and I knew

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that I had to remove myself from
the cycle there and then.

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I am still annoyed that a
medium, which I think has so

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much potential for really
interesting and unique

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expressions, been used as a tool
to squeeze the hours out of my

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day like a juicer. I'm ashamed
to say that in the past year, I

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started going at Instagram reels
instead.

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Georgia Hampton: Oh my god. I
saw. The freaks.

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00:12:28,565 --> 00:12:29,925
Mike Rugnetta: Home of the
freaks.

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Meghal Janardan: I feel similar.
I could give various arguments

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as to why I've gone back, but
ultimately, it's the same brain

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hooks from a different app. One
thing I've noticed with

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Instagram though is that one of
my core themes my algorithm

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keeps returning me to is
productivity. I believe it

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started from a few videos about
how to do good academia, which

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makes sense since I've recently
returned to university for a

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master's. And, of course, Meta
could consult their

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constellation of data about me
to find out the second I

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submitted my application.

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From those academia videos, I
have then been shown a number of

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videos similar to the episode,
which are about how to rebuild

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your attention. Mhmm. I am
fascinated by the process of an

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app showing me videos, which
acknowledge that the experience

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is not pleasant and then showing
techniques of how to stop using

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it. It's hardly new for systems
to present their own critiques,

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but seeing people talk in
practical terms about how to

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stop does feel different. It all
makes me wonder about how the

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future of digital systems will
be built on co opted critique.

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Could Instagram just be setting
up a smokescreen by showing me

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these videos, showing me the way
out to trick me into thinking I

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can leave whenever I want? Oh.
Woah. You should definitely

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00:13:43,110 --> 00:13:47,135
subscribe to the Neverpost RSS
feed and continue to listen to

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00:13:47,135 --> 00:13:47,855
this podcast.

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Georgia Hampton: I'm trying to

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00:13:48,975 --> 00:13:50,095
Meghal Janardan: can learn how
to stop

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00:13:50,095 --> 00:13:53,135
Georgia Hampton: listening to
podcasts. But just listen to

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this podcast.

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Jason Oberholtzer: Could
Instagram be showing you the way

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00:13:56,335 --> 00:13:58,735
out to trick you into thinking
you can leave whenever you want?

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We know the answer, and we'll
tell you soon later on. Never

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00:14:02,530 --> 00:14:03,010
post.

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00:14:03,010 --> 00:14:04,450
Mike Rugnetta: After these
messages. After

291
00:14:04,690 --> 00:14:07,970
Georgia Hampton: these messages.
If you're a member,

292
00:14:08,770 --> 00:14:10,770
Georgia Hampton: you'll get
access to that conversation

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00:14:10,770 --> 00:14:11,010
early.

294
00:14:12,045 --> 00:14:13,965
Mike Rugnetta: Should we should
we just start printing out

295
00:14:13,965 --> 00:14:16,125
transcripts and mailing them to
people? Is that the better

296
00:14:16,125 --> 00:14:20,205
option? Finish an episode. Do
the transcripts.

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00:14:20,285 --> 00:14:23,405
Meghal Janardan: Not to be
confused with a newspaper. Oh.

298
00:14:23,645 --> 00:14:25,725
Georgia Hampton: Uh-oh. Mike
accidentally invented

299
00:14:25,725 --> 00:14:26,630
newspapers. Newspapers.

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00:14:26,630 --> 00:14:29,670
Mike Rugnetta: Interesting.
Interesting. You know, this

301
00:14:29,670 --> 00:14:32,150
podcast industry thing is
doesn't really seem to be

302
00:14:32,150 --> 00:14:36,310
working out for the world. Let's
just go and check. How is the

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00:14:36,310 --> 00:14:40,155
news publishing industry doing?

304
00:14:40,235 --> 00:14:41,595
Georgia Hampton: Oh, Mike. I
already checked.

305
00:14:41,595 --> 00:14:45,195
Georgia Hampton: It's awesome.
It's so good.

306
00:14:46,315 --> 00:14:49,915
Georgia Hampton: Oh my god. I do
have to I have to yell about the

307
00:14:49,915 --> 00:14:51,595
TikTok to Instagram reel
pipeline.

308
00:14:53,730 --> 00:14:55,010
Mike Rugnetta: Where where
what's the state

309
00:14:55,010 --> 00:14:56,530
Jason Oberholtzer: of it now?
Because it used to be, like,

310
00:14:56,530 --> 00:14:59,010
TikTok had everything first and
it was cool, then Instagram was

311
00:14:59,010 --> 00:15:03,490
boomer y and had it late. But
now, like okay. Still that?

312
00:15:03,490 --> 00:15:04,130
Georgia Hampton: Yes. Oh,

313
00:15:04,130 --> 00:15:04,770
Meghal Janardan: still that.

314
00:15:04,770 --> 00:15:05,490
Georgia Hampton: Oh, I'm just
gonna

315
00:15:05,735 --> 00:15:07,815
Jason Oberholtzer: know TikTok
seems like it's all commercials,

316
00:15:07,815 --> 00:15:09,495
and Instagram seems like it's
all sickos.

317
00:15:09,495 --> 00:15:11,895
Mike Rugnetta: Instagram reels,
at least in my experience in

318
00:15:11,895 --> 00:15:16,535
comparison to using TikTok, is
full of fucking weirdos. Oh,

319
00:15:16,535 --> 00:15:21,580
okay. Strange. Like, the amount
of just truly bizarre stuff that

320
00:15:21,580 --> 00:15:27,340
I see, it's is just mountains
more of it on Instagram than I

321
00:15:27,340 --> 00:15:28,700
ever saw on TikTok.

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00:15:28,780 --> 00:15:31,900
Georgia Hampton: I do wonder how
long it will take for the the

323
00:15:31,900 --> 00:15:38,725
ads, the endless advertising to
get to Reels because I do still

324
00:15:38,725 --> 00:15:42,725
feel like TikTok I I generally
avoid Reels because I'm like,

325
00:15:42,725 --> 00:15:45,605
listen, if I'm going to be
drinking straight from the hose

326
00:15:45,925 --> 00:15:48,085
of this kind of content, I'm
gonna do it once.

327
00:15:48,250 --> 00:15:50,330
Mike Rugnetta: Like it to be
like it to be water and not

328
00:15:50,330 --> 00:15:51,130
chlorine or

329
00:15:51,290 --> 00:15:52,250
Georgia Hampton: Yeah. Exactly.

330
00:15:52,890 --> 00:15:55,210
Georgia Hampton: Yeah. And,
like, I have a lot of a a few

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00:15:55,210 --> 00:15:58,090
friends in my life who genuinely
have been like, yeah. I'm so

332
00:15:58,090 --> 00:16:02,855
glad that I never got on TikTok.
And I'm like, diva, Let's check

333
00:16:02,855 --> 00:16:05,175
our Instagram DMs. How many
times are you looking at

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00:16:06,135 --> 00:16:10,135
Mike Rugnetta: TikTok is on you.
Yeah. This email does it just

335
00:16:10,135 --> 00:16:12,615
makes me think about I mean, and
and Julia even acknowledges

336
00:16:12,615 --> 00:16:16,510
this, the old idea that it's
like, any capitalism is able to

337
00:16:16,510 --> 00:16:21,150
subsume any criticism of it and
is able to host it and profit

338
00:16:21,150 --> 00:16:23,710
from it. Yeah. So it's like, you
know, Penguin House makes tons

339
00:16:23,710 --> 00:16:25,870
of money from printing Karl
Marx's books.

340
00:16:25,870 --> 00:16:29,075
Yeah. It's just how it works.
And it's like, you know, the job

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00:16:29,075 --> 00:16:32,355
of the technology is to figure
out what you want and give it to

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00:16:32,355 --> 00:16:35,395
you. And what a lot of people
want right now is to figure out

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00:16:35,395 --> 00:16:39,315
how to spend less time online.
So yeah, it is deeply ironic,

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00:16:39,315 --> 00:16:42,595
but also very very true and
makes all kinds of sense that

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00:16:42,595 --> 00:16:46,410
Instagram will be like, well,
here's endless content about

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00:16:46,410 --> 00:16:48,170
spending less time online.

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00:16:48,250 --> 00:16:53,050
Meghal Janardan: Yeah. There is
also this new what's in my bag

348
00:16:53,050 --> 00:16:56,730
video that I've seen where it's
people packing, like, you know,

349
00:16:56,730 --> 00:17:00,105
putting stuff in their purse for
activities that are offline, and

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00:17:00,105 --> 00:17:03,545
they're making content about
putting a book in their purse.

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00:17:03,545 --> 00:17:05,705
Mike Rugnetta: Folks, we're
gonna win. We're gonna we're

352
00:17:05,785 --> 00:17:08,585
everything's gonna be okay. It's
just gonna take a little while.

353
00:17:08,585 --> 00:17:11,545
Jason Oberholtzer: Did they
start that day by yawning and

354
00:17:11,545 --> 00:17:12,265
tossing off their

355
00:17:12,265 --> 00:17:17,410
Georgia Hampton: sheets 10 feet
away from their phone? Yes. God.

356
00:17:17,410 --> 00:17:17,730
Well, I

357
00:17:17,730 --> 00:17:19,570
Hans Buetow: think one thing
that's interesting about this is

358
00:17:19,570 --> 00:17:23,090
where Julia figured it out. I
love the detail that no one has

359
00:17:23,090 --> 00:17:28,005
commented on. I was halfway
across a road. Realized I

360
00:17:28,005 --> 00:17:28,885
Georgia Hampton: had been using
TikTok

361
00:17:28,885 --> 00:17:30,485
Hans Buetow: TikTok without
enjoying it for months. I took

362
00:17:30,485 --> 00:17:32,885
that moment to delete the app
and have never gone back.

363
00:17:32,885 --> 00:17:33,205
Georgia Hampton: I hope it.

364
00:17:33,205 --> 00:17:35,845
Mike Rugnetta: Stepping on to
the far curb and thinking

365
00:17:35,845 --> 00:17:37,925
immediately, oh, damn, dog.

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00:17:37,925 --> 00:17:42,005
Hans Buetow: We all remember
that moment. If you if you

367
00:17:42,005 --> 00:17:45,660
remember the moment that you had
such a realization, tell us what

368
00:17:45,660 --> 00:17:47,820
it is. Tell us where you were
standing and which road you were

369
00:17:47,820 --> 00:17:51,580
crossing, when you decide when
it hit you.

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00:17:51,580 --> 00:17:52,220
Mike Rugnetta: Don't tell us

371
00:17:52,300 --> 00:17:52,700
Hans Buetow: Oh god.

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00:17:52,700 --> 00:17:53,580
Mike Rugnetta: Out of the road
first.

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00:17:53,580 --> 00:17:55,740
Georgia Hampton: Yeah. Yeah.
Please. Traffic.

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00:17:56,140 --> 00:17:58,780
Hans Buetow: But send that to
us. Thank you, Julia, for this.

375
00:18:00,755 --> 00:18:03,715
Georgia Hampton: Ben Smith sent
in something about my segment

376
00:18:03,715 --> 00:18:06,995
about recipes as vibe posting.

377
00:18:08,195 --> 00:18:12,930
Ben Smith: Hi, Neverpost. This
is less of a question or comment

378
00:18:12,930 --> 00:18:17,250
and more of just an excited,
what a wonderful confluence of

379
00:18:17,250 --> 00:18:20,850
people thinking about this topic
slash excitedly just sort of

380
00:18:20,850 --> 00:18:23,570
waving my arms in the air about
this the entire time I was

381
00:18:23,570 --> 00:18:28,275
listening. But Ruby Tando from
Bake Off, but also who is just a

382
00:18:28,275 --> 00:18:32,275
fantastic food writer in her own
right, literally had a book

383
00:18:32,275 --> 00:18:36,035
coming out this week called All
Consuming. The cover is very

384
00:18:36,035 --> 00:18:39,555
good, but the first section of
it, because I have devoured it

385
00:18:39,860 --> 00:18:43,780
like so much of her writing, is
all about the process of writing

386
00:18:43,780 --> 00:18:47,860
recipes now. And why are all of
the descriptions of them like

387
00:18:47,860 --> 00:18:50,420
cheesy green beans and things
like that.

388
00:18:51,140 --> 00:18:55,275
And just sort of like the nature
of very Marshall McLuhan y, the

389
00:18:55,275 --> 00:18:58,315
medium is the message, and what
does it mean that the medium has

390
00:18:58,315 --> 00:19:03,115
now changed? And I just wanted
to excitedly share so that it is

391
00:19:03,115 --> 00:19:06,155
also on your radar. Thank you
for a fantastic show.

392
00:19:06,820 --> 00:19:08,580
Georgia Hampton: Ben, I just
looked this up, and I'm ordering

393
00:19:08,580 --> 00:19:09,540
it right now.

394
00:19:09,540 --> 00:19:10,980
Hans Buetow: I love this. Love
this.

395
00:19:11,860 --> 00:19:14,340
Georgia Hampton: The it also it
would behoove me to mention

396
00:19:14,340 --> 00:19:17,780
specifically Caleb Herron's
interpretation of this, which is

397
00:19:17,780 --> 00:19:21,855
the, like, just a a green
crunch. Like, a a healthy green

398
00:19:21,855 --> 00:19:24,095
crunch. Like, it's Is there a

399
00:19:24,095 --> 00:19:26,255
Mike Rugnetta: name for that?
For that, like God.

400
00:19:26,415 --> 00:19:28,095
Georgia Hampton: Maybe I need to
do another segment that's

401
00:19:28,095 --> 00:19:29,535
specifically food about this.

402
00:19:29,615 --> 00:19:31,055
Mike Rugnetta: In? It's
enraging.

403
00:19:31,055 --> 00:19:34,015
Georgia Hampton: It's so it's so
wild. Like, I just think we need

404
00:19:34,015 --> 00:19:36,300
a little green, a little crunch,
a little

405
00:19:36,780 --> 00:19:38,460
Jason Oberholtzer: Like, it's
every time you

406
00:19:38,460 --> 00:19:39,260
Georgia Hampton: do this.

407
00:19:39,340 --> 00:19:42,460
Georgia Hampton: But it is,
like, there's something so it's

408
00:19:42,460 --> 00:19:45,100
like, picking up, like, a
mosquito bite where, like, even

409
00:19:45,100 --> 00:19:48,140
saying it, I'm like, there's
something evil that I'm, like,

410
00:19:48,140 --> 00:19:53,525
taking pleasure But, yes, thank
you so much, Ben. This is

411
00:19:53,525 --> 00:19:57,685
awesome. I am so going to read
this. This looks amazing. Also,

412
00:19:57,685 --> 00:19:58,645
cover is awesome.

413
00:19:59,525 --> 00:20:03,045
Mike Rugnetta: Eric Moore wrote
in about my Brain Rot segment.

414
00:20:03,045 --> 00:20:05,950
Eric writes, I was listening to
the Mailbag episode, and I was

415
00:20:05,950 --> 00:20:09,790
struck by what my mother used to
call the cosmic two by four when

416
00:20:09,790 --> 00:20:11,870
I heard your discussion about
Jay McGee's letter on

417
00:20:11,870 --> 00:20:15,310
WikiLeaping. I'm a professional
independent trivia host, and

418
00:20:15,310 --> 00:20:17,950
what they were talking about is
very nearly my initial

419
00:20:17,950 --> 00:20:21,135
brainstorming process when it
comes time for me to write a new

420
00:20:21,135 --> 00:20:24,895
show every week, which got me
thinking, am I just a paid brain

421
00:20:24,895 --> 00:20:30,975
rot shepherd? Uh-oh. I think
trivia and brain rot have a sort

422
00:20:30,975 --> 00:20:34,015
of rhombus slash quadrilateral
relationship.

423
00:20:34,540 --> 00:20:37,980
In that trivia, begrudgingly to
my field, is a type of

424
00:20:37,980 --> 00:20:41,260
fulfilling brain rot in the
modern sense, but especially

425
00:20:41,260 --> 00:20:44,620
when compared to AI slop brain
rot, which at most generous is

426
00:20:44,620 --> 00:20:47,100
probably a highly irregular
trapezoid in this metaphor.

427
00:20:49,025 --> 00:20:51,265
While I think brain rot is a
well understood and accurate

428
00:20:51,265 --> 00:20:53,665
description of the umbrella term
for activities that are

429
00:20:53,665 --> 00:20:56,865
capitalistically useless, but
passively to semi passively

430
00:20:56,865 --> 00:21:00,065
enjoyable, I think where some of
that distinction of fulfillment

431
00:21:00,065 --> 00:21:02,625
and where it loops into being a
healthy thing pejoratively

432
00:21:02,625 --> 00:21:06,910
called brain rot comes in is in
a, as Jay remarked, was this

433
00:21:06,910 --> 00:21:11,070
brain rot designed by human
minds? B, are you engaging with

434
00:21:11,070 --> 00:21:14,110
it because you want to and not
that it was served to you

435
00:21:14,110 --> 00:21:17,915
algorithmically slash
systematically? And c, is this

436
00:21:17,915 --> 00:21:21,275
something that can be shared and
communally experienced? Trivia

437
00:21:21,275 --> 00:21:23,835
is at least as old as the
classics etymologically, but

438
00:21:23,835 --> 00:21:26,635
probably even older because even
standing on the stage, there is

439
00:21:26,635 --> 00:21:29,675
nothing quite so enjoyably human
as being surrounded by other

440
00:21:29,675 --> 00:21:32,330
humans fighting about answers to
questions no one ever made you

441
00:21:32,330 --> 00:21:35,370
learn the answers to, and that
you don't need to remember and

442
00:21:35,370 --> 00:21:36,650
utilize afterwards.

443
00:21:36,890 --> 00:21:40,810
Viva la brain rot that actually
helps you enjoy living and being

444
00:21:40,810 --> 00:21:45,595
wonderfully useless if only for
a moment. PS, AI is extremely

445
00:21:45,595 --> 00:21:48,795
bad at writing competent trivia
questions, so my brain rot job

446
00:21:48,795 --> 00:21:55,835
is safe for the time being. I
mean, I think like I don't know.

447
00:21:55,835 --> 00:22:00,560
I'm so maybe increasingly
resistant to calling anything

448
00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:05,440
that doesn't leave you with a
kind of device related hangover

449
00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:11,585
afterwards, any form of brain
rot. That like, for me, rot now

450
00:22:11,585 --> 00:22:16,225
has, like, a very particular
feeling associated to it.

451
00:22:16,225 --> 00:22:21,425
And it is when I put my phone
down and I, like, re check into

452
00:22:21,425 --> 00:22:24,850
the world, and I'm like, oh,
woah.

453
00:22:25,570 --> 00:22:26,050
Georgia Hampton: Hold on.

454
00:22:26,050 --> 00:22:28,050
Hans Buetow: Like, you just woke
up from a really long nap and

455
00:22:28,050 --> 00:22:28,770
you'll

456
00:22:28,770 --> 00:22:31,170
Georgia Hampton: go Oh, yeah.
You feel sick and angry. Yeah.

457
00:22:31,170 --> 00:22:31,250
Yeah.

458
00:22:31,250 --> 00:22:33,090
Mike Rugnetta: Yeah. Stupid.
Like a you're, like, kinda

459
00:22:33,090 --> 00:22:34,850
sweaty and angry. You went

460
00:22:34,850 --> 00:22:35,170
Georgia Hampton: to bed.

461
00:22:35,170 --> 00:22:37,915
Hans Buetow: It was bright, and
now it's dark, and you missed

462
00:22:37,915 --> 00:22:38,795
dinner, and what

463
00:22:38,795 --> 00:22:43,515
Mike Rugnetta: the hell? Stop. I
had stuff I needed to do. Yeah.

464
00:22:44,235 --> 00:22:48,475
And so I'm like, if you're I'm
open to the idea that, like, you

465
00:22:48,475 --> 00:22:51,995
can do things in space with
people, and then afterwards be

466
00:22:51,995 --> 00:22:53,020
like, oh.

467
00:22:54,860 --> 00:22:57,740
And like, have a kind of social
hangover. But like,

468
00:22:58,060 --> 00:23:01,820
fundamentally, is that brain rot
or is that just, you know,

469
00:23:02,140 --> 00:23:07,100
social anxiety? Like, I think if
you're with people, there's

470
00:23:06,595 --> 00:23:10,035
gotta be something just
fundamentally additive and pro

471
00:23:10,035 --> 00:23:13,075
social about it, if certain
characteristics of the scenario

472
00:23:13,075 --> 00:23:16,595
are given. That is just so
different from sitting on your

473
00:23:16,595 --> 00:23:22,440
phone and like, doing nothing or
doing something that sort of is

474
00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:24,840
justified through the idea of
doing nothing.

475
00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:29,560
Georgia Hampton: I'm really
enchanted by this description of

476
00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:33,320
trivia as information that you
never learned intentionally.

477
00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:38,755
Because there's something I
think, comparatively true about

478
00:23:38,755 --> 00:23:42,995
that with memes, and I can say,
and they were roommates, and you

479
00:23:42,995 --> 00:23:44,995
know what comes next, and you
know where that's from.

480
00:23:44,995 --> 00:23:46,435
Georgia Hampton: And they were
roommates.

481
00:23:46,675 --> 00:23:48,675
Georgia Hampton: Yeah. There's
something about that that's

482
00:23:48,675 --> 00:23:52,620
kinda sweet that is sort of
communal, but it kind of I feel

483
00:23:52,620 --> 00:23:56,460
like in a way, it feels the most
that way in the real world with

484
00:23:56,460 --> 00:23:57,420
other people.

485
00:23:57,660 --> 00:23:59,260
Mike Rugnetta: And I think
there's still a big distinction

486
00:23:59,260 --> 00:24:02,220
between, like I'm gonna talk in
generalities here, and like what

487
00:24:02,220 --> 00:24:05,605
I'm about to say doesn't apply
to say, like, people who are

488
00:24:05,605 --> 00:24:08,565
gonna go on Jeopardy! Or like
Don Caldwell from Know Your

489
00:24:08,565 --> 00:24:15,445
Meme. Watch yourself, counselor.
The idea of trivia is that you,

490
00:24:15,525 --> 00:24:20,950
just through the way that you
live your life and the sort of,

491
00:24:21,350 --> 00:24:25,270
like, you know, who you are, you
are in possession of information

492
00:24:25,270 --> 00:24:28,630
that is at that particular
moment and perhaps no other

493
00:24:28,630 --> 00:24:31,990
moment immediately useful to
answer a question. Whereas I see

494
00:24:31,990 --> 00:24:35,515
a lot of people using their
devices, being online, scrolling

495
00:24:35,515 --> 00:24:38,235
TikTok, scrolling Instagram,
etcetera etcetera, like, using

496
00:24:38,235 --> 00:24:40,635
the excuse of being like, well,
I gotta know what's going on out

497
00:24:40,635 --> 00:24:41,115
there.

498
00:24:41,275 --> 00:24:45,035
Like, I gotta sort of, like,
actively dig through this pile

499
00:24:45,035 --> 00:24:48,110
of stuff and like kinda hurt
myself a little bit in the

500
00:24:48,110 --> 00:24:51,710
process Mhmm. So that I know
what's going on. I think unless

501
00:24:51,710 --> 00:24:55,550
you are a professional trivia
person, the people who play

502
00:24:55,550 --> 00:24:57,870
trivia most regularly, and I
have a lot of friends who do,

503
00:24:57,870 --> 00:25:01,755
they're not like studying. But
they are studious people.

504
00:25:02,075 --> 00:25:03,995
Jason Oberholtzer: My takeaway
from all the responses we've

505
00:25:03,995 --> 00:25:08,395
gotten to your brain rot segment
is, I think to notice that

506
00:25:08,395 --> 00:25:12,635
people have a very difficult
time defining what productive

507
00:25:12,635 --> 00:25:15,700
uses of their time are as soon
as they are asked to so without

508
00:25:15,700 --> 00:25:17,060
a capitalistic framework.

509
00:25:17,060 --> 00:25:17,300
Mike Rugnetta: Yeah.

510
00:25:17,300 --> 00:25:19,940
Jason Oberholtzer: Yeah.
Everyone answers that a little

511
00:25:19,940 --> 00:25:22,500
differently, or like makes a
little bit of a different

512
00:25:22,500 --> 00:25:26,180
deflection on the answer, as if
they cannot just wholeheartedly

513
00:25:26,180 --> 00:25:29,620
say, I enjoy doing this with my
time, and so I do.

514
00:25:30,175 --> 00:25:33,135
Mike Rugnetta: Yeah. And and
even though it makes me no money

515
00:25:33,135 --> 00:25:35,535
or whatever, like, don't feel
guilty about that.

516
00:25:35,775 --> 00:25:36,335
Jason Oberholtzer: Yeah.

517
00:25:36,975 --> 00:25:39,375
Hans Buetow: So with that, let's
take a little break so I can go

518
00:25:39,375 --> 00:25:44,575
check my texts, my TikTok, my
Instagram, all the things.

519
00:25:45,070 --> 00:25:47,310
Because I don't know what
happened in the last twenty

520
00:25:47,310 --> 00:25:47,950
minutes, but

521
00:25:48,270 --> 00:25:49,550
Mike Rugnetta: Gotta go make
sure. Maybe it could have been

522
00:25:49,550 --> 00:25:52,270
Hans Buetow: some guy. Gotta
yeah. So sorry. We'll be right

523
00:25:52,270 --> 00:25:52,430
back.

524
00:26:09,325 --> 00:26:11,405
Jason Oberholtzer: Welcome back
everyone. I hope you enjoyed

525
00:26:11,405 --> 00:26:15,405
that break wherein you looked at
a different screen and waited

526
00:26:15,405 --> 00:26:21,090
for us to come back. Next up, we
have a response to a segment I

527
00:26:21,090 --> 00:26:26,210
did over the summer with Hannah
Paivo about charts in the early

528
00:26:26,210 --> 00:26:29,970
nineteen hundreds, and the ways
in which charting came from the

529
00:26:29,970 --> 00:26:34,285
cartographers of the world,
historians, and the academics

530
00:26:34,605 --> 00:26:41,165
into the greedy little hands of
business. And what that meant

531
00:26:41,165 --> 00:26:45,165
about the dissemination of data
and its magical powers of

532
00:26:45,165 --> 00:26:50,220
prognostication. I have not
heard this response at all, but

533
00:26:50,220 --> 00:26:51,980
Hans assures me I will enjoy it.

534
00:26:51,980 --> 00:26:54,540
So Hans, show me what I'm in
store for.

535
00:26:54,940 --> 00:26:58,780
Hans Buetow: We got a message,
an audio message from Talia, who

536
00:26:58,780 --> 00:27:01,260
we heard from a little bit
earlier in the in the episode.

537
00:27:01,725 --> 00:27:04,765
They sent us this pretty
incredible thing with the tag.

538
00:27:04,765 --> 00:27:07,405
They're all good segments,
Brent, but I have listened to

539
00:27:07,405 --> 00:27:09,565
the charts one like four times.

540
00:27:12,365 --> 00:27:17,380
Talia: Hey, Inverpost. This is
Talia. I'm coming to you today

541
00:27:17,380 --> 00:27:22,100
from a far noisier place than I
normally do. It's Friday

542
00:27:22,100 --> 00:27:28,115
afternoon in the hot lab, which
is where I work, which means

543
00:27:28,115 --> 00:27:32,835
it's time for the end of week
monitoring sweep. And I have

544
00:27:32,835 --> 00:27:37,235
been thinking a lot about the
formalism thing that Jason

545
00:27:37,235 --> 00:27:47,150
discussed and how much I have
grown to have after working in

546
00:27:47,150 --> 00:27:50,510
HOT Labs for the last six or
seven years, a sense of

547
00:27:50,510 --> 00:27:55,150
formalism based on the sensor,
which is a radioactive sensor,

548
00:27:56,455 --> 00:27:58,615
which you potentially can hear
in the background.

549
00:27:58,615 --> 00:27:59,895
Jason Oberholtzer: I was
wondering what that was.

550
00:27:59,895 --> 00:28:00,615
Georgia Hampton: Yep. The

551
00:28:00,615 --> 00:28:03,655
Talia: afternoon monitoring
sweep is to check whether or not

552
00:28:03,655 --> 00:28:07,255
the laboratory is clean and safe
and if everything that should be

553
00:28:07,495 --> 00:28:11,890
active or hot, as we like to
call it, is in its rightful

554
00:28:11,890 --> 00:28:15,570
place. So rest assured, I'm a
professional and

555
00:28:15,570 --> 00:28:16,370
Georgia Hampton: I know what I'm
doing.

556
00:28:16,370 --> 00:28:17,090
Talia: Don't worry if

557
00:28:17,090 --> 00:28:19,650
Georgia Hampton: it happens to
sound noisy Okay.

558
00:28:19,650 --> 00:28:23,625
Talia: With chirps over here.
But I thought that this would be

559
00:28:23,625 --> 00:28:27,145
a nice submission for the charts
that Jason requested as this is

560
00:28:27,145 --> 00:28:31,705
a sensor that moves through the
chart of space in the laboratory

561
00:28:31,705 --> 00:28:37,110
in the jerk. And I think the way
in which these trips have come

562
00:28:37,110 --> 00:28:40,790
to mean something to me, but
potentially don't mean anything

563
00:28:40,790 --> 00:28:47,110
to you, is is interesting as a
discussion on, like, that that

564
00:28:47,110 --> 00:28:51,895
kind of idea of, like, how the
form becomes or starts to mean

565
00:28:51,895 --> 00:28:57,735
something the more you interact
with it. Anyway, I'm gonna stop

566
00:28:57,735 --> 00:29:00,455
talking and just do the sweep.
Okay.

567
00:29:03,255 --> 00:29:06,890
Hans Buetow: So this message
goes on for another

568
00:29:07,130 --> 00:29:10,090
Jason Oberholtzer: Oh, Talia,
get out of there. No.

569
00:29:10,090 --> 00:29:13,610
Hans Buetow: Another five
minutes and it goes a lot of

570
00:29:13,610 --> 00:29:16,890
places. Talia's really doing the
work over that. Let me play you

571
00:29:16,890 --> 00:29:19,695
just a couple of moments that
happen within the next four

572
00:29:19,695 --> 00:29:20,975
minutes of Talia's life.

573
00:29:20,975 --> 00:29:23,215
Mike Rugnetta: Can I just read
one one thing, Hans, before you

574
00:29:23,215 --> 00:29:27,935
start it? Yeah. Okay. A hot lab
is a secure shielded room in

575
00:29:27,935 --> 00:29:31,855
hospitals or research facilities
for safely handling, preparing,

576
00:29:31,855 --> 00:29:35,590
and storing radioactive
materials used in nuclear

577
00:29:35,590 --> 00:29:37,510
medicine and therapy.

578
00:29:38,550 --> 00:29:40,710
Jason Oberholtzer: Talia, just
Okay.

579
00:29:40,790 --> 00:29:43,430
Georgia Hampton: Our first
radioactive audio clip.

580
00:29:43,510 --> 00:29:46,150
Hans Buetow: So apparently, they
can just use their phone in

581
00:29:46,150 --> 00:29:49,030
there because this is these are
these are two examples of what

582
00:29:49,030 --> 00:29:49,750
we get later.

583
00:29:55,045 --> 00:29:56,005
Jason Oberholtzer: Is that good?

584
00:29:56,645 --> 00:29:59,125
Georgia Hampton: I don't think
so. They are a professional.

585
00:30:00,645 --> 00:30:01,925
Jason Oberholtzer: Are a
professional.

586
00:30:01,925 --> 00:30:04,245
Georgia Hampton: Hearing that
sound, does that feel good?

587
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:08,560
Jason Oberholtzer: No. It does
not. Something about the form of

588
00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:09,040
it.

589
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:16,000
Mike Rugnetta: I don't think I
like charts.

590
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:19,605
Georgia Hampton: I'm scared. I'm
scared. So by the end of

591
00:30:19,605 --> 00:30:23,205
Hans Buetow: it, Talia gets into
a little bit calmer area.

592
00:30:27,285 --> 00:30:29,685
Georgia Hampton: This is even
scarier to be seen. Yeah.

593
00:30:30,805 --> 00:30:37,890
Jason Oberholtzer: I embraced.
Is that good?

594
00:30:37,890 --> 00:30:40,050
Georgia Hampton: Who is that?
Don't know. Okay.

595
00:30:40,290 --> 00:30:42,210
Hans Buetow: Again, Talia is a
professional.

596
00:30:44,450 --> 00:30:45,890
Georgia Hampton: A secret third
thing.

597
00:30:53,105 --> 00:30:59,025
Talia: Okay. Well, that's all
the serious stuff done. As

598
00:30:59,025 --> 00:31:00,385
always, loving the show.

599
00:31:14,565 --> 00:31:15,925
Mike Rugnetta: Bizarrely
stressful.

600
00:31:15,925 --> 00:31:16,805
Georgia Hampton: Why is it?

601
00:31:16,965 --> 00:31:19,925
Mike Rugnetta: What is the part
of my, like, animal brain that's

602
00:31:19,925 --> 00:31:21,605
like, that's bad. That's just
bad.

603
00:31:21,605 --> 00:31:22,405
Georgia Hampton: That's bad.

604
00:31:22,405 --> 00:31:23,285
Georgia Hampton: Get out of
there.

605
00:31:23,605 --> 00:31:25,605
Jason Oberholtzer: I cannot
overemphasize how much everyone

606
00:31:25,605 --> 00:31:29,605
was fidgeting and moving around
frame that entire time. Nobody

607
00:31:29,605 --> 00:31:30,325
was comfortable.

608
00:31:30,620 --> 00:31:33,500
Hans Buetow: Oh, that's also
only segments of it. I'm it

609
00:31:33,500 --> 00:31:35,820
literally go it's four minutes
long of them just

610
00:31:35,820 --> 00:31:37,740
Jason Oberholtzer: going through
the room. That is truly

611
00:31:38,140 --> 00:31:39,660
Incredible. Wild.

612
00:31:40,220 --> 00:31:42,460
Georgia Hampton: Speaking of
unsettling and alarming sounds,

613
00:31:45,855 --> 00:31:52,255
Adam, sent in a note about my
segment with Luis Lopez on Burnt

614
00:31:52,255 --> 00:31:58,735
Toast Audio, which if you do not
recall, was this audio trend

615
00:31:59,190 --> 00:32:03,910
where people intentionally peak
their audio and just blow out

616
00:32:03,910 --> 00:32:04,790
the sound.

617
00:32:05,990 --> 00:32:08,950
Adam: On the opposite end of mic
clipping, I've noticed this

618
00:32:08,950 --> 00:32:12,150
thing where people will move
their face away from a mic to

619
00:32:12,150 --> 00:32:15,355
yell, and it just has a very
particular vibe to it that

620
00:32:15,355 --> 00:32:19,035
creates this mixture of both
yelling and whispering as

621
00:32:19,035 --> 00:32:21,435
they're no longer speaking
directly into the mic, but

622
00:32:21,435 --> 00:32:24,955
they're still talking at a loud
volume. I feel like I see it a

623
00:32:24,955 --> 00:32:27,675
lot when people are making
comments that are either open

624
00:32:27,675 --> 00:32:31,650
secrets or very private
hush-hush secrets. I couldn't

625
00:32:31,650 --> 00:32:34,610
find any good analysis about
this online, so I wanted to see

626
00:32:34,610 --> 00:32:37,890
what you all could dig up.
Thanks. This is truly one of my

627
00:32:37,890 --> 00:32:40,530
favorite podcasts, and I look
forward to every new episode.

628
00:32:40,530 --> 00:32:41,330
Mike Rugnetta: Oh, thanks, Adam.

629
00:32:41,330 --> 00:32:43,335
Georgia Hampton: Thanks, Adam.
Okay. This I'm obsessed with

630
00:32:43,335 --> 00:32:45,575
this because I know exactly what
you're talking about.

631
00:32:46,615 --> 00:32:48,455
Jason Oberholtzer: Can you do
it?

632
00:32:48,855 --> 00:32:51,495
Georgia Hampton: Yeah. So it'd
be kind of like, I'm talking to

633
00:32:51,495 --> 00:32:52,455
you over here.

634
00:32:52,615 --> 00:32:52,935
Georgia Hampton: Yeah.

635
00:32:54,230 --> 00:32:55,910
Georgia Hampton: And then I move
away

636
00:32:56,230 --> 00:32:56,790
Georgia Hampton: Okay.

637
00:32:56,870 --> 00:33:01,270
Georgia Hampton: And in interact
with the space I'm in more

638
00:33:01,270 --> 00:33:02,310
pointedly.

639
00:33:02,310 --> 00:33:04,230
Mike Rugnetta: And while you're
back there, you talk about how,

640
00:33:04,230 --> 00:33:06,390
like, someone is cheating on
their significant other? Like,

641
00:33:06,390 --> 00:33:06,630
is that

642
00:33:06,710 --> 00:33:07,110
Georgia Hampton: Yeah. Is that,

643
00:33:07,110 --> 00:33:08,950
Mike Rugnetta: like, the gossip
you enter the gossip zone?

644
00:33:08,950 --> 00:33:09,430
You're like,

645
00:33:10,175 --> 00:33:13,695
Georgia Hampton: so this
celebrity has done something

646
00:33:14,175 --> 00:33:15,935
normal and innocuous.

647
00:33:15,935 --> 00:33:17,375
Hans Buetow: The smash cut,
probably.

648
00:33:17,375 --> 00:33:19,695
Georgia Hampton: Not that we
would ever forget the terrible

649
00:33:19,695 --> 00:33:22,095
and horrible crimes they've
committed.

650
00:33:22,590 --> 00:33:23,630
Hans Buetow: Smash cut back.

651
00:33:23,630 --> 00:33:25,710
Georgia Hampton: So anyway,
like, it's yeah. It's

652
00:33:25,710 --> 00:33:26,350
Mike Rugnetta: this Sure. Yeah.

653
00:33:26,430 --> 00:33:28,270
Georgia Hampton: It's this,
like, analog

654
00:33:28,430 --> 00:33:29,470
Mike Rugnetta: It's like the
Greek chorus almost.

655
00:33:29,470 --> 00:33:32,590
Georgia Hampton: Yeah. Yeah.
Like, it's this analog way of

656
00:33:32,990 --> 00:33:38,365
cutting. It's an emphasis on
what you're saying in the

657
00:33:38,365 --> 00:33:40,205
opposite, which is interesting.

658
00:33:40,205 --> 00:33:43,965
Mike Rugnetta: It's it's sort of
posits, like, you know, like the

659
00:33:43,965 --> 00:33:46,685
whisper is like a very
particular kind of emphasis that

660
00:33:46,685 --> 00:33:50,445
it's close and a change in vocal
timbre. Like, you know, you

661
00:33:50,445 --> 00:33:53,120
can't really, the only way that
you can hear this is like, you

662
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:56,160
really have to get in there. But
like, this sort of does the

663
00:33:56,160 --> 00:34:00,960
opposite where it's like, it
forces you to yell, but it still

664
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:03,040
sort of like enters this whole
other space.

665
00:34:03,595 --> 00:34:05,595
Georgia Hampton: Well and I
think there's the an implication

666
00:34:05,595 --> 00:34:08,235
there that it's like, I'm
yelling and no one can hear me.

667
00:34:08,395 --> 00:34:09,195
Mike Rugnetta: Oh, interesting.

668
00:34:09,195 --> 00:34:09,835
Georgia Hampton: Like, no.

669
00:34:09,835 --> 00:34:10,555
Georgia Hampton: I didn't think
about that.

670
00:34:10,555 --> 00:34:12,635
Georgia Hampton: Like, I'm
saying this thing, like, don't

671
00:34:12,635 --> 00:34:15,275
you under like, it's sort of
you, like, slapping your hands

672
00:34:15,275 --> 00:34:17,680
against the glass being like
trying to warn

673
00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:18,320
Mike Rugnetta: you. Yeah.

674
00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:20,080
Georgia Hampton: Yeah. I've
tried to warn you. Don't like,

675
00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:23,680
don't you see I'm yelling and no
one can hear me.

676
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:26,960
Hans Buetow: One of the things
that I teach students when we

677
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:31,465
work on audio only things and I
talk about writing for audio is

678
00:34:31,465 --> 00:34:36,345
that grammar, as it is generally
taught, is a written person's

679
00:34:36,345 --> 00:34:41,465
game Yeah. And not a reading or
talking person's game. We do not

680
00:34:41,465 --> 00:34:44,025
talk with proper grammar, and we
never will. If you wanna sound

681
00:34:44,025 --> 00:34:47,170
natural, ignore grammar. Of
course, don't because you need

682
00:34:47,170 --> 00:34:49,970
to make it legible when you read
it and things, but this feels

683
00:34:49,970 --> 00:34:53,410
like another entry into a
grammar

684
00:34:53,410 --> 00:34:54,930
Mike Rugnetta: of audio.

685
00:34:55,410 --> 00:34:56,290
Georgia Hampton: Oh, a 100%.

686
00:34:56,290 --> 00:34:56,770
Mike Rugnetta: I agree with
that.

687
00:34:56,945 --> 00:34:58,865
Georgia Hampton: Because there's
also kind of a like, it's a

688
00:34:58,865 --> 00:35:00,145
parenthetical almost.

689
00:35:00,305 --> 00:35:02,385
Hans Buetow: Yeah. Like this
what you're saying so much more.

690
00:35:02,385 --> 00:35:05,505
It is a parenthetical, but it's
like a nuanced parenthetical.

691
00:35:05,505 --> 00:35:07,585
Georgia Hampton: Yeah. Well,
because it's not it's not just

692
00:35:07,585 --> 00:35:10,310
necessarily, like, I'm yelling
and no one can hear me. It's

693
00:35:10,310 --> 00:35:13,190
almost like I'm yelling. I'm far
enough away from the mic where

694
00:35:13,190 --> 00:35:16,950
there's almost this implication
that, like, I don't know you can

695
00:35:16,950 --> 00:35:20,550
hear me. Like, whereas I'm right
here right now, and I know that

696
00:35:20,550 --> 00:35:21,190
you can hear me.

697
00:35:21,190 --> 00:35:23,670
I'm right by my mic. I am
intentionally recording my

698
00:35:23,670 --> 00:35:29,165
voice. Whereas if I move four
feet back, there's this sort of

699
00:35:29,165 --> 00:35:32,925
implicit feeling of, like, maybe
I'm saying this and I don't know

700
00:35:32,925 --> 00:35:33,965
that you can hear me.

701
00:35:34,765 --> 00:35:37,085
Mike Rugnetta: I wonder how much
of it is derived from the

702
00:35:37,085 --> 00:35:41,085
practical concerns of, Yeah.
These are things that you want

703
00:35:40,580 --> 00:35:42,820
to shout because they frustrate
you, but that would make the

704
00:35:42,820 --> 00:35:45,460
audio sound bad, so you just
move away a little bit.

705
00:35:45,540 --> 00:35:47,700
Hans Buetow: But with burnt
toast, you'd be looking for

706
00:35:47,700 --> 00:35:47,940
that.

707
00:35:47,940 --> 00:35:48,180
Georgia Hampton: Yeah.

708
00:35:48,180 --> 00:35:50,340
Hans Buetow: Like, staying close
to your mic and blowing it out

709
00:35:50,340 --> 00:35:53,700
according to Georgia's thesis is
actually a thing you could do,

710
00:35:53,700 --> 00:35:55,060
and it would mean something.

711
00:35:55,220 --> 00:35:59,905
Meghal Janardan: Yeah. There is
something this phenomenon of,

712
00:35:59,905 --> 00:36:01,985
like, either intentionally,
like, okay, come closer, come

713
00:36:01,985 --> 00:36:06,385
closer, and then whispering into
your mic or, like, going back

714
00:36:07,265 --> 00:36:12,410
reminds me of, like, millennials
use of jump cuts Yes. Yeah. And

715
00:36:12,410 --> 00:36:13,450
the videos that they make.

716
00:36:13,450 --> 00:36:13,850
Hans Buetow: Sure.

717
00:36:13,850 --> 00:36:16,170
Meghal Janardan: Mhmm. It feels
very millennial to

718
00:36:16,170 --> 00:36:20,170
Georgia Hampton: me. Uh-oh. That
well, that's interesting to me

719
00:36:20,170 --> 00:36:22,810
because I feel like the
millennial jump cut is much more

720
00:36:22,810 --> 00:36:28,005
effort Because in that case, you
are actually cutting the video,

721
00:36:28,005 --> 00:36:30,885
like, are going in after the
fact and cutting it. Whereas

722
00:36:30,885 --> 00:36:36,270
this is such a, like to me, this
feels very very close to the

723
00:36:36,270 --> 00:36:39,230
medium that you see it in, at
least that I see it in, which is

724
00:36:39,230 --> 00:36:41,710
more like short form video
TikTok, that kind of stuff,

725
00:36:41,710 --> 00:36:45,550
vertical video, where the idea
is that you can just make a

726
00:36:45,550 --> 00:36:48,030
video right now. I don't have
time to do all this stuff.

727
00:36:48,765 --> 00:36:51,725
So I'm just going to get this
message across as quickly as I

728
00:36:51,725 --> 00:36:52,205
can.

729
00:36:52,525 --> 00:36:53,325
Georgia Hampton: Yes. Adam,

730
00:36:53,885 --> 00:36:55,245
Georgia Hampton: this is so
interesting. I could write an

731
00:36:55,245 --> 00:36:59,325
entire other, segment about
this, and maybe I will.

732
00:36:59,325 --> 00:37:00,365
Georgia Hampton: No. Wait. Hold
on.

733
00:37:00,365 --> 00:37:00,765
Georgia Hampton: Hold on.

734
00:37:00,765 --> 00:37:03,450
Georgia Hampton: And maybe I
will. A

735
00:37:06,410 --> 00:37:08,730
Mike Rugnetta: little while ago,
I did a segment about how

736
00:37:08,810 --> 00:37:11,210
artificial intelligence is
helping contribute to the

737
00:37:11,210 --> 00:37:14,490
aesthetic of new American
fascism. And Dan wrote us an

738
00:37:14,490 --> 00:37:17,215
email, and Dan says, since
listening to your episode about

739
00:37:17,215 --> 00:37:20,495
AI and new American fascism, I
can't stop thinking about how

740
00:37:20,495 --> 00:37:24,335
the Fasc Bros' latest obsession
of AI contrasts with and

741
00:37:24,335 --> 00:37:27,775
contradicts their previous
obsession with cryptocurrency.

742
00:37:28,490 --> 00:37:32,410
Specifically, how the supposed
advantage of crypto, its ability

743
00:37:32,410 --> 00:37:35,130
to substitute fiat government
banking with cryptographic proof

744
00:37:35,130 --> 00:37:39,290
of work runs completely counter
to the inherent premise of AI.

745
00:37:39,450 --> 00:37:44,345
What is at its core evidence of
a lack of work. So much of the

746
00:37:44,345 --> 00:37:46,905
hype of crypto seems nominally
predicated on the belief that

747
00:37:46,905 --> 00:37:50,025
the proof of work equals
scarcity, and therefore

748
00:37:50,025 --> 00:37:52,425
legitimacy as a currency.

749
00:37:52,585 --> 00:37:56,520
But AI throws out that notion
that proof of work matters at

750
00:37:56,520 --> 00:38:00,200
all, insisting that only the end
result is of any importance to

751
00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:03,320
the audience. The fact that
adherence to one of these

752
00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:05,880
technologies are typically
adherence to the other belies

753
00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:09,475
crypto's stated necessity. If
the ultimate goal of AI is to

754
00:38:09,475 --> 00:38:12,515
get work without any effort,
then perhaps predicating an

755
00:38:12,515 --> 00:38:15,235
entire economic system on
computational work isn't the

756
00:38:15,235 --> 00:38:18,595
democratic decentralized anti
establishment tool we were told

757
00:38:18,595 --> 00:38:21,750
it would be. Perhaps even it's
just another tool for

758
00:38:21,750 --> 00:38:25,110
speculating, scams, and buying
sketchy drugs on the dark web.

759
00:38:25,110 --> 00:38:25,430
Okay.

760
00:38:25,430 --> 00:38:28,390
Listen. As someone with friends
who buy a lot of sketchy drugs

761
00:38:28,390 --> 00:38:32,630
on the dark web, like, that
part, let's, you know, let's let

762
00:38:32,630 --> 00:38:35,865
people buy their sketchy drugs.
Everything else, hell yeah, Dan.

763
00:38:36,425 --> 00:38:38,505
Georgia Hampton: Well, in truth,
you should be buying sketchy

764
00:38:38,505 --> 00:38:39,785
drugs from your own

765
00:38:40,105 --> 00:38:42,105
Mike Rugnetta: community.
Lately.

766
00:38:42,425 --> 00:38:44,745
Georgia Hampton: Sores. You. You
go You should be going

767
00:38:44,745 --> 00:38:50,950
Mike Rugnetta: to Providence.
Yeah. I mean, I think that this

768
00:38:50,950 --> 00:38:53,590
is a set of people who generally
is interested in one thing and

769
00:38:53,590 --> 00:38:56,150
it's political expediency. And
so they will do whatever is

770
00:38:56,150 --> 00:38:58,790
politically expedient in any
given scenario, and they're

771
00:38:58,790 --> 00:39:01,190
doing the politically expedient
thing in both of these

772
00:39:01,190 --> 00:39:04,485
scenarios. The fact that those
two things don't necessarily

773
00:39:04,485 --> 00:39:08,405
line up to form a coherent I
don't even wanna call it

774
00:39:08,405 --> 00:39:09,045
ideology.

775
00:39:09,045 --> 00:39:13,685
A coherent line of reasoning is
like, Dan, you have given this a

776
00:39:13,685 --> 00:39:17,125
thousand times more thought than
any of the people who are

777
00:39:16,830 --> 00:39:18,910
interested in both of these
technologies.

778
00:39:19,150 --> 00:39:21,630
Jason Oberholtzer: Yeah. Yeah.
Think the center of the Venn

779
00:39:21,630 --> 00:39:26,270
diagram between the two is what
is an easy answer for how can I

780
00:39:26,270 --> 00:39:30,590
receive things from the world
when I have absolutely nothing

781
00:39:30,590 --> 00:39:31,950
of value to give the world?

782
00:39:32,405 --> 00:39:35,765
Mike Rugnetta: Yeah. Yeah. I
guess in that way, it's very

783
00:39:35,765 --> 00:39:36,565
coherent.

784
00:39:36,565 --> 00:39:37,765
Georgia Hampton: Yeah.

785
00:39:37,765 --> 00:39:43,125
Georgia Hampton: So we got a
very interesting comment in, of

786
00:39:43,125 --> 00:39:46,800
all places, our subreddit, which
if you did not know this

787
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:51,120
existed, you should go to
r/neverpost and join the

788
00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:54,480
community there. Make your voice
heard. Tell us your thoughts. We

789
00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:56,800
are constantly reading it.
Sometimes we might even comment

790
00:39:56,800 --> 00:39:57,200
in there.

791
00:39:57,200 --> 00:39:57,600
Hans Buetow: We're in there.

792
00:39:57,895 --> 00:40:00,375
Georgia Hampton: We're in there,
and I was in there when I found

793
00:40:00,375 --> 00:40:10,455
this comment. So, frequent, chat
participant in our, live

794
00:40:10,455 --> 00:40:15,300
streams, which if you'd also
like to, see our beautiful faces

795
00:40:15,300 --> 00:40:19,780
there, it is
twitch.tv/theneverpost. User

796
00:40:19,780 --> 00:40:24,180
nondeterminist system wrote a
really interesting comment on

797
00:40:24,180 --> 00:40:28,365
our subreddit about my episode
that came out in October about

798
00:40:28,365 --> 00:40:31,485
digital witchcraft, Etsy
witches, and the industry of

799
00:40:31,485 --> 00:40:36,205
witchcraft on the Internet. And
they write, I had a few quick

800
00:40:36,205 --> 00:40:40,205
thoughts after listening to this
episode. First, one thing that I

801
00:40:40,205 --> 00:40:43,005
may ruminate on and come back
with a more fleshed out thought

802
00:40:43,005 --> 00:40:43,405
later.

803
00:40:43,860 --> 00:40:46,980
Mahegan Saint Pierre talked
about acting as an intermediary

804
00:40:46,980 --> 00:40:50,500
between the living and the
spirits. It occurred to me that,

805
00:40:50,500 --> 00:40:54,260
for most people, the Internet is
a vast ethereal world with

806
00:40:54,260 --> 00:40:58,260
unpredictable agents whose will
often requires interpretation

807
00:40:58,260 --> 00:41:02,055
and intercession. Maybe we need
new kinds of spiritual

808
00:41:02,055 --> 00:41:05,655
intermediaries for our new
realities. Or maybe we're

809
00:41:05,655 --> 00:41:09,095
already trying to think of the
Internet as a spiritual place,

810
00:41:09,415 --> 00:41:12,055
and maybe some of our angst
about the current state of the

811
00:41:12,055 --> 00:41:16,350
Internet can be thought of as
spiritual. Second, and

812
00:41:16,350 --> 00:41:19,710
relatedly, I'd love to hear more
from practitioners of other

813
00:41:19,710 --> 00:41:22,830
religions and faith traditions
about how their beliefs and

814
00:41:22,830 --> 00:41:24,990
practices have been impacted by
the Internet.

815
00:41:25,230 --> 00:41:30,285
Well, Alex Friedman, rabbi who
wrote in to us, I'd be very

816
00:41:30,285 --> 00:41:33,405
interested if you have thoughts
about this. Yeah. Yeah. I do

817
00:41:33,405 --> 00:41:35,565
think this is an interesting
idea of looking at our

818
00:41:35,565 --> 00:41:39,885
relationship to the Internet as
spiritual. I think it's that's

819
00:41:39,885 --> 00:41:41,245
certainly its own thing.

820
00:41:41,245 --> 00:41:45,890
I don't want to equate the
industry and existence of

821
00:41:45,890 --> 00:41:51,010
witchcraft on the Internet with
a broader spirituality about the

822
00:41:51,010 --> 00:41:56,610
Internet. But I do think there
is there is truth in this

823
00:41:56,770 --> 00:42:02,505
feeling that the Internet does,
by virtue of it existing through

824
00:42:02,505 --> 00:42:07,785
devices, but not in a particular
place. It's sort of a this vast

825
00:42:07,785 --> 00:42:15,400
endless more conceptual space
that there is a a desire to

826
00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:18,840
ground it, to understand it, to
interpret it in a way that I

827
00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:22,840
think does feel similar to
spiritual practice. There's a

828
00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:26,875
desire to, like, interpret,
understand, have people who

829
00:42:26,875 --> 00:42:31,595
interpret it for us who feel
more, like, authorities.

830
00:42:32,075 --> 00:42:34,395
Mike Rugnetta: And that's why I
have to look at my phone for

831
00:42:34,395 --> 00:42:37,835
fourteen hours every day to make
sure that I know enough to guide

832
00:42:37,835 --> 00:42:38,580
people through

833
00:42:38,580 --> 00:42:41,540
Georgia Hampton: the Exactly.
Exactly. I was gonna say I do

834
00:42:41,540 --> 00:42:46,820
feel I I worry that us on this
call I mean, I certainly fall

835
00:42:46,820 --> 00:42:51,460
into that, where I'm like, I
gotta I gotta learn so that I

836
00:42:51,460 --> 00:42:55,115
can I can explain? Mhmm.

837
00:42:55,115 --> 00:42:57,755
Meghal Janardan: I would also
say that what this made me think

838
00:42:57,755 --> 00:43:01,595
of is how sometimes people have
a crisis of faith, where going

839
00:43:01,595 --> 00:43:04,715
to church every week, doing this
thing doesn't feel the same

840
00:43:04,715 --> 00:43:07,755
anymore. It's not they're not
getting what they used to get

841
00:43:07,755 --> 00:43:11,430
out of it. And that makes me
think of how I feel about the

842
00:43:11,430 --> 00:43:14,870
Internet. I used to go to the
Internet. When I would go

843
00:43:14,870 --> 00:43:16,630
online, I would feel a certain
way.

844
00:43:16,630 --> 00:43:19,350
I would frequent certain
websites, engage in certain

845
00:43:19,350 --> 00:43:23,685
content, whatever. And I'm
always almost having a crisis of

846
00:43:23,685 --> 00:43:26,085
faith when it comes to the
Internet. I don't feel the same

847
00:43:26,085 --> 00:43:30,885
anymore when I gauge in certain
times of types of content, and

848
00:43:30,885 --> 00:43:35,205
I'm in certain spaces. And that
makes me think of how maybe,

849
00:43:35,205 --> 00:43:39,950
yeah, the Internet is kind of a
place that is very similar to,

850
00:43:39,950 --> 00:43:41,790
like, a spiritual practice.

851
00:43:42,270 --> 00:43:44,990
Mike Rugnetta: And which is
also, like, getting actively

852
00:43:44,990 --> 00:43:48,590
worse. Like, you know Yes. I
don't as I don't participate in

853
00:43:48,590 --> 00:43:50,910
religion too much, so I don't
know how often that that

854
00:43:50,910 --> 00:43:53,595
happens. It certainly has
famously happened in a couple

855
00:43:53,595 --> 00:43:56,315
places in The United States over
the last thirty or so years.

856
00:43:56,315 --> 00:43:58,715
But, like, I think that's also
part of it is that it's like, it

857
00:43:58,715 --> 00:44:03,115
is actually demonstrably getting
less pleasant and harder to use.

858
00:44:03,675 --> 00:44:04,235
Mhmm.

859
00:44:04,235 --> 00:44:07,300
Hans Buetow: Yeah. Speaking of
getting less pleasant and harder

860
00:44:07,300 --> 00:44:11,780
to use, unless you're a member,
it's time to hear some ads.

861
00:44:14,420 --> 00:44:15,220
We'll be right back.

862
00:44:31,035 --> 00:44:34,075
Mike Rugnetta: Folks, I got good
news for us. Finally. Finally,

863
00:44:34,075 --> 00:44:38,630
good news after all those ads.
We got a Molly's Corner.

864
00:44:38,710 --> 00:44:40,950
Georgia Hampton: Yes. Yes.

865
00:44:41,030 --> 00:44:54,025
Mike Rugnetta: I have no clue
what this is. For anybody who is

866
00:44:54,025 --> 00:44:57,705
a new listener, Molly, my wife,
occasionally calls in and asks

867
00:44:57,705 --> 00:45:00,745
questions or make statements
that are completely unrelated to

868
00:45:00,745 --> 00:45:01,385
the show.

869
00:45:01,465 --> 00:45:05,945
Hans Buetow: Yes. Today, we hear
from Molly Underground.

870
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:12,880
Molly: Hi. It's me. I was just
getting the m train up town from

871
00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:16,560
Delancey Essex Street. And one
thing they've done, everything

872
00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:21,215
is install a screen that tells
you on the m Platform when the f

873
00:45:21,215 --> 00:45:24,255
is coming because it's not in
New York. These are trains that

874
00:45:24,255 --> 00:45:26,735
basically go on the same route
that are on different levels of

875
00:45:26,735 --> 00:45:27,935
the subway platform.

876
00:45:28,335 --> 00:45:30,815
For the years, there's been one
stairway between the two

877
00:45:30,815 --> 00:45:33,775
platforms where people would
either stand at the top or stand

878
00:45:33,775 --> 00:45:36,770
at the bottom, look out for when
the train was coming, and then

879
00:45:36,770 --> 00:45:42,290
communicate to strangers to say,
come up here or go down there,

880
00:45:42,290 --> 00:45:45,810
and and people would essentially
shave one or two minutes off

881
00:45:45,810 --> 00:45:49,250
their commute. Very important.
But they since they've installed

882
00:45:49,250 --> 00:45:51,970
the screen, now you can stand on
the m platform and see when the

883
00:45:51,970 --> 00:45:55,625
app coming. I assume the same as
Shu downstairs. And it's just a

884
00:45:55,625 --> 00:45:59,465
bit sad to me, really, because I
love that I love the forcing

885
00:45:59,465 --> 00:46:01,705
function of having to
communicate with a stranger to

886
00:46:01,705 --> 00:46:04,345
figure something out in the
city.

887
00:46:04,345 --> 00:46:09,930
And it made me wonder if any of
you have examples of where,

888
00:46:09,930 --> 00:46:12,730
like, technology has arguably
made your life better. It

889
00:46:12,730 --> 00:46:16,890
actually makes you a little bit
sad because maybe it's the right

890
00:46:17,050 --> 00:46:20,250
some kind of human connection or
something that was pleasurable

891
00:46:20,250 --> 00:46:25,115
to do that took longer than the
way you do it now. Anyway, I was

892
00:46:25,115 --> 00:46:27,835
just thinking about that. So
gladly. Know

893
00:46:28,235 --> 00:46:29,755
Mike Rugnetta: exactly what
Molly's talking about. Is this

894
00:46:29,755 --> 00:46:31,435
clear to everybody what's going
on here?

895
00:46:31,515 --> 00:46:34,235
Hans Buetow: Yeah. I think so.
Yeah. I think so. Two two

896
00:46:34,235 --> 00:46:35,915
different levels of people
talking to each other about

897
00:46:35,915 --> 00:46:36,795
which train is coming first.

898
00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:38,360
Mike Rugnetta: Yeah. And then
they put it they put a screen

899
00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:39,640
in. You don't to do that
anymore.

900
00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:43,240
Meghal Janardan: Yeah. Molly
trusting the screen is what I'm

901
00:46:43,240 --> 00:46:43,640
Georgia Hampton: not sure

902
00:46:43,640 --> 00:46:44,840
Meghal Janardan: about. Yeah.

903
00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:47,160
Mike Rugnetta: I find those
screens generally are right

904
00:46:47,240 --> 00:46:50,280
unless they say, hey. I'm a
screen. I'm broken.

905
00:46:50,825 --> 00:46:55,145
Georgia Hampton: Nope. Which is
Hey. Often. Often. So maybe No.

906
00:46:55,225 --> 00:47:00,185
Georgia Hampton: Okay. But okay.
To her question, does this make

907
00:47:00,185 --> 00:47:01,625
you think of another example?

908
00:47:01,705 --> 00:47:03,945
Mike Rugnetta: Absolutely.
Something came right to mind

909
00:47:03,945 --> 00:47:09,070
when they installed checkout
kiosks at the library. Oh. I

910
00:47:09,070 --> 00:47:11,150
love talking to our librarians.
They're great.

911
00:47:11,150 --> 00:47:11,630
Hans Buetow: Yeah.

912
00:47:12,190 --> 00:47:14,430
Mike Rugnetta: Like, I loved
going to the desk and, like,

913
00:47:14,430 --> 00:47:17,390
having a little chat, talking
about books, and, like, getting

914
00:47:17,390 --> 00:47:20,670
recommended other books. And,
like, I sometimes I did have to

915
00:47:20,670 --> 00:47:21,230
wait in line.

916
00:47:21,765 --> 00:47:24,165
Hans Buetow: Mike, that's a good
one because I feel the same way.

917
00:47:24,165 --> 00:47:28,165
I think I'm on record on this
show saying I don't use self

918
00:47:28,165 --> 00:47:29,765
checkout in lines. Oh,

919
00:47:29,765 --> 00:47:30,965
Mike Rugnetta: yeah.
Interesting.

920
00:47:30,965 --> 00:47:33,525
Hans Buetow: And and a similar
reason where, like and it's a

921
00:47:33,525 --> 00:47:36,085
similar reason to, like, what
Alex was saying way at the

922
00:47:36,085 --> 00:47:38,810
beginning of this episode, which
is, like, there's certain social

923
00:47:38,810 --> 00:47:41,690
contracts and the fact that
people still wear their pajamas

924
00:47:41,690 --> 00:47:44,410
to the store and then can check
out without interacting with a

925
00:47:44,410 --> 00:47:48,970
single person. It leads to this
idea that these spaces are your

926
00:47:48,970 --> 00:47:50,505
living room, and they are not

927
00:47:50,745 --> 00:47:52,985
Mike Rugnetta: Bypass by
bypassing all of the moments

928
00:47:52,985 --> 00:47:55,545
wherein they may be slightly
judged.

929
00:47:55,705 --> 00:47:57,865
Georgia Hampton: Yeah. Yeah.
Hold on. Why is wearing pajamas

930
00:47:57,865 --> 00:47:59,465
to the store catching strays
right

931
00:47:59,465 --> 00:48:00,665
Meghal Janardan: now? Yeah.

932
00:48:00,665 --> 00:48:02,585
Mike Rugnetta: Hans is actually
a Russian grandma that thinks

933
00:48:02,585 --> 00:48:05,300
that you should have a full face
of makeup and red lipstick every

934
00:48:05,300 --> 00:48:05,460
time

935
00:48:05,460 --> 00:48:06,580
Georgia Hampton: you leave
silence. All

936
00:48:06,580 --> 00:48:07,300
Georgia Hampton: of us. Right?

937
00:48:07,300 --> 00:48:09,300
Georgia Hampton: All of us. Yes.
All of us doing

938
00:48:09,300 --> 00:48:10,340
Mike Rugnetta: that. Yep.

939
00:48:10,500 --> 00:48:13,860
Georgia Hampton: No. I this then
makes me think of it's funny

940
00:48:13,860 --> 00:48:17,935
when when I was listening to
Molly's Molly's Corner. I wasn't

941
00:48:17,935 --> 00:48:20,735
originally thinking of this, but
the other day, was walking down

942
00:48:20,735 --> 00:48:25,055
the street and I saw a little
restaurant in my neighborhood

943
00:48:25,055 --> 00:48:29,535
that basically deals entirely in
online orders. Nobody ever goes

944
00:48:29,535 --> 00:48:31,695
in there and sits there. It's
just picking up or getting

945
00:48:31,695 --> 00:48:32,655
DoorDash or whatever.

946
00:48:33,590 --> 00:48:36,630
I have certainly been someone
who does this, but it does make

947
00:48:36,630 --> 00:48:41,430
me sad to see entire restaurants
that are just completely empty,

948
00:48:41,430 --> 00:48:44,070
have all the trappings of a
regular restaurant, have seats,

949
00:48:44,070 --> 00:48:47,030
have chairs of everything, and
nobody's ever there because

950
00:48:47,030 --> 00:48:50,005
they're never going to be there
because this has been determined

951
00:48:50,005 --> 00:48:51,925
to be a takeout restaurant.

952
00:48:52,005 --> 00:48:54,725
Mike Rugnetta: There's an
incredible thread on the I

953
00:48:54,725 --> 00:48:57,045
believe the Bed Stuy, the
neighborhood that I live in

954
00:48:57,045 --> 00:49:01,285
subreddit, where someone is
like, hey, where are the good

955
00:49:01,285 --> 00:49:05,870
Indian food restaurants where
people actually sit down in the

956
00:49:05,870 --> 00:49:10,910
restaurant Yes. And eat in the
restaurant? I want I wanna go. I

957
00:49:10,910 --> 00:49:12,910
have a first date coming up or
something like that, and I wanna

958
00:49:12,910 --> 00:49:15,870
go, and I don't want the two of
us. We wanna get Indian food,

959
00:49:15,870 --> 00:49:18,865
but, like, we don't want the two
of us to be the only people in

960
00:49:18,865 --> 00:49:19,665
the restaurant.

961
00:49:19,745 --> 00:49:23,345
Oh, And every single comment is
like, oh, this place is really

962
00:49:23,345 --> 00:49:25,585
good. And then people being
like, you didn't he doesn't

963
00:49:25,905 --> 00:49:27,185
yeah. But it's always empty.

964
00:49:27,185 --> 00:49:28,545
Georgia Hampton: But it's a
takeout restaurant.

965
00:49:28,545 --> 00:49:30,705
Mike Rugnetta: Yeah. Only just a
group of guys on bikes waiting

966
00:49:30,705 --> 00:49:31,745
outside constantly.

967
00:49:32,040 --> 00:49:34,200
Meghal Janardan: Do you think
then it's this is kind of part

968
00:49:34,200 --> 00:49:38,200
of the bigger conversation that
about convenience, and this is

969
00:49:38,200 --> 00:49:40,120
actually the pain of
convenience?

970
00:49:40,120 --> 00:49:42,920
Mike Rugnetta: Yes. Absolutely.
100%. Yeah. The destruction of

971
00:49:42,920 --> 00:49:46,280
the sensual world at the the
altar of convenience.

972
00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:46,600
Yeah.

973
00:49:46,600 --> 00:49:46,920
Jason Oberholtzer: Mhmm.

974
00:49:48,655 --> 00:49:51,775
Hans Buetow: Jason? Yes? You
look like you were gonna say

975
00:49:51,775 --> 00:49:53,695
something. I wanna give you a
chance before we move on.

976
00:49:54,095 --> 00:49:56,015
Jason Oberholtzer: I was gonna
try to, and I haven't figured

977
00:49:56,015 --> 00:49:59,535
out how to use the altar pivot
to land a religious button to

978
00:49:59,535 --> 00:50:02,975
move us on. Okay. Ended at the
altar of convenience.

979
00:50:04,210 --> 00:50:08,210
Mike Rugnetta: Sir Suri is mouse
in French, and mice inhabit

980
00:50:08,210 --> 00:50:09,410
churches. Church mouse.

981
00:50:09,730 --> 00:50:11,250
Georgia Hampton: Mice are very
religious.

982
00:50:11,250 --> 00:50:13,810
Mike Rugnetta: This is a well
known fact. Mice love Jesus.

983
00:50:14,210 --> 00:50:14,850
Jason Oberholtzer: All of this
is.

984
00:50:14,850 --> 00:50:18,095
Mike Rugnetta: Mice love Jesus.
Jesus. They're constantly

985
00:50:18,095 --> 00:50:19,535
telling me. Yeah.

986
00:50:19,535 --> 00:50:21,695
Meghal Janardan: And we actually
I think like most Ganesha

987
00:50:21,695 --> 00:50:24,095
statues, there is a mouse.

988
00:50:24,495 --> 00:50:27,455
Jason Oberholtzer: I feel like I
missed an entire connective step

989
00:50:27,455 --> 00:50:28,655
in this. Why am I here?

990
00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:31,560
Mike Rugnetta: I feel like we
should just leave this in and

991
00:50:31,560 --> 00:50:33,640
then just talking about start
talking about one word graffiti.

992
00:50:33,640 --> 00:50:34,600
Georgia Hampton: Blessed are the
meat.

993
00:50:34,600 --> 00:50:35,880
Georgia Hampton: Okay. A mouse.

994
00:50:37,880 --> 00:50:39,720
Georgia Hampton: What's the
great or not the great mouse

995
00:50:39,720 --> 00:50:40,680
detective. This one

996
00:50:40,840 --> 00:50:41,880
Jason Oberholtzer: Why are we
talking about mice?

997
00:50:44,375 --> 00:50:45,415
Georgia Hampton: What's this?
The Jewish

998
00:50:45,495 --> 00:50:46,135
Mike Rugnetta: No one tell

999
00:50:46,135 --> 00:50:49,495
Georgia Hampton: Jason. One.
That's about mice.

1000
00:50:49,815 --> 00:50:54,935
Jason Oberholtzer: Fievel Goes
West is a Jewish movie? Yes. But

1001
00:50:54,935 --> 00:50:55,815
he's a cowboy.

1002
00:50:57,830 --> 00:51:00,470
Georgia Hampton: Careful. Why
are we talking about the cowboy?

1003
00:51:00,470 --> 00:51:01,350
That's okay.

1004
00:51:02,390 --> 00:51:04,630
Jason Oberholtzer: How about
this? Andy's a cowboy.

1005
00:51:04,630 --> 00:51:05,350
Georgia Hampton: There you go.

1006
00:51:05,350 --> 00:51:07,990
Mike Rugnetta: We got a bunch of
one word graffiti mostly from

1007
00:51:07,990 --> 00:51:08,870
the subreddit.

1008
00:51:09,670 --> 00:51:13,105
Jason Oberholtzer: Good god.
Alright. Yeah, gang. Hey.

1009
00:51:13,105 --> 00:51:15,745
Remember when I told you all to
stop doing this last time?

1010
00:51:16,065 --> 00:51:19,745
Well, you didn't fucking listen,
did you? I'm gonna rattle off

1011
00:51:19,745 --> 00:51:24,920
some one word graffiti for you,
which to be fair, you all were

1012
00:51:24,920 --> 00:51:27,880
very good rule followers this
time. Maybe it's because you

1013
00:51:27,880 --> 00:51:30,440
listened to an episode of Normal
Gossip where Mike Rickenetta

1014
00:51:30,440 --> 00:51:35,240
talked about being a rule
follower, but you're doing good

1015
00:51:35,240 --> 00:51:43,175
this time. Alright. Reddit user,
vim dynamo, sent in Souris, s o

1016
00:51:43,175 --> 00:51:44,695
u r I s.

1017
00:51:44,695 --> 00:51:47,815
And in that thread are a bunch
of people talking about this

1018
00:51:47,815 --> 00:51:51,410
word that is baffling to me. I'm
not gonna spoil it. You gotta go

1019
00:51:51,410 --> 00:51:53,410
to the subreddit and figure out
what the fuck Cerus is all

1020
00:51:53,410 --> 00:51:53,730
about.

1021
00:51:53,730 --> 00:51:55,250
Mike Rugnetta: It's good.
There's a whole discussion. It's

1022
00:51:55,250 --> 00:51:55,490
great.

1023
00:51:55,490 --> 00:52:01,890
Jason Oberholtzer: Next up,
Vogie sends in p s y c psych.

1024
00:52:02,375 --> 00:52:05,495
Psych. On the side of, like, a
transformer unit. That's kind of

1025
00:52:05,495 --> 00:52:05,975
fun.

1026
00:52:06,135 --> 00:52:09,255
Hans Buetow: With just pigeons
and pigeons?

1027
00:52:09,255 --> 00:52:10,695
Georgia Hampton: I don't think
that's not

1028
00:52:10,935 --> 00:52:11,735
Hans Buetow: a pigeons.

1029
00:52:11,735 --> 00:52:13,575
Georgia Hampton: That's are
those assumptions? It's

1030
00:52:13,575 --> 00:52:14,935
something far more worried.

1031
00:52:20,030 --> 00:52:22,270
Georgia Hampton: Those are
bushcats. It's

1032
00:52:22,510 --> 00:52:24,590
Mike Rugnetta: I this image is
spooky.

1033
00:52:24,670 --> 00:52:26,910
Georgia Hampton: There's a
darkness here. Yeah.

1034
00:52:27,390 --> 00:52:30,430
Jason Oberholtzer: If Saff only
sends in dong.

1035
00:52:31,045 --> 00:52:31,685
Hans Buetow: Dong.

1036
00:52:31,685 --> 00:52:33,365
Mike Rugnetta: Dong dong near
soup.

1037
00:52:33,765 --> 00:52:36,325
Georgia Hampton: Oh, yeah.
There's a bunch of I didn't see

1038
00:52:36,325 --> 00:52:37,045
that ever.

1039
00:52:37,045 --> 00:52:39,525
Mike Rugnetta: That just makes
it for me. Yeah. Dong near soup.

1040
00:52:39,525 --> 00:52:41,045
Hans Buetow: Campbell's cream of
something.

1041
00:52:41,125 --> 00:52:44,100
Georgia Hampton: Yeah. Oh, this
next one rips so hard.

1042
00:52:44,820 --> 00:52:49,380
Jason Oberholtzer: Todd from
Montreal sends sends in and a

1043
00:52:49,380 --> 00:52:51,300
little Mario guy with a b on his
hat.

1044
00:52:51,300 --> 00:52:54,180
Mike Rugnetta: I'm gonna say
that this barely it is one word,

1045
00:52:54,180 --> 00:52:56,100
but, like, maximum effort.

1046
00:52:56,235 --> 00:52:57,675
Jason Oberholtzer: It is a full
wall mural

1047
00:52:57,675 --> 00:53:00,155
Mike Rugnetta: of graffiti.
With, like, three d letters.

1048
00:53:00,955 --> 00:53:01,595
Carolyn

1049
00:53:06,075 --> 00:53:08,635
Jason Oberholtzer: Thompson from
Portland, Oregon sends in queso.

1050
00:53:08,715 --> 00:53:11,675
It appears twice. Queso queso,
and it's stenciled on the

1051
00:53:11,675 --> 00:53:15,810
street. So in a few ways, you
are pushing credulity, but I'll

1052
00:53:15,810 --> 00:53:16,610
let it in.

1053
00:53:16,690 --> 00:53:19,810
Meghal Janardan: And it's
yellow. Like queso.

1054
00:53:19,810 --> 00:53:20,850
Hans Buetow: Like queso.

1055
00:53:20,850 --> 00:53:21,890
Jason Oberholtzer: We do like
that.

1056
00:53:21,890 --> 00:53:24,050
Mike Rugnetta: I like that it's
also in this very pleasing

1057
00:53:24,050 --> 00:53:24,530
triangle.

1058
00:53:24,975 --> 00:53:28,175
Jason Oberholtzer: Like a chip
almost. Yeah. Like a tortilla

1059
00:53:28,175 --> 00:53:31,535
chip. You know what? Cameron,
this is good now.

1060
00:53:31,535 --> 00:53:34,175
I'm gonna forgive this being
both a stencil and the same word

1061
00:53:34,175 --> 00:53:34,735
twice.

1062
00:53:34,735 --> 00:53:37,055
Georgia Hampton: Wait. What's
wrong with the stencil? Yeah.

1063
00:53:37,610 --> 00:53:38,570
Why is that a problem?

1064
00:53:38,570 --> 00:53:40,810
Mike Rugnetta: Jason's the, in
charge of He's the decider.

1065
00:53:40,810 --> 00:53:41,050
Yeah.

1066
00:53:41,050 --> 00:53:42,890
Hans Buetow: Yep. There's lots
of mostly,

1067
00:53:44,010 --> 00:53:45,370
Mike Rugnetta: we must cater to
his whims.

1068
00:53:45,370 --> 00:53:46,250
Georgia Hampton: That's so true.

1069
00:53:46,250 --> 00:53:48,330
Jason Oberholtzer: I just feel
like spray painting through a

1070
00:53:48,330 --> 00:53:51,930
stencil is not quite the spirit
of one word graffiti.

1071
00:53:52,275 --> 00:53:53,795
Georgia Hampton: Fair enough.
Fair enough.

1072
00:53:53,955 --> 00:53:56,915
Jason Oberholtzer: And finally,
quirky spirit five nine eight

1073
00:53:56,915 --> 00:54:01,955
zero in the subreddit sends in a
sign that appears to say shit

1074
00:54:01,955 --> 00:54:05,075
bottle on it, and one imagines
someone spray painted something

1075
00:54:05,075 --> 00:54:06,275
to change it from what it once
said.

1076
00:54:06,275 --> 00:54:08,570
Mike Rugnetta: There's a whole
story. This is less than one

1077
00:54:08,570 --> 00:54:13,130
word graffiti. It is people
adding a single horizontal line

1078
00:54:13,290 --> 00:54:16,810
to the signs for a town named
Shillbottle.

1079
00:54:16,970 --> 00:54:19,210
Georgia Hampton: Uh-huh. Knew
it. Yes.

1080
00:54:19,290 --> 00:54:21,855
Mike Rugnetta: Jason, in fact,
two months ago, you responded to

1081
00:54:21,855 --> 00:54:24,095
this saying, the purest entry.

1082
00:54:24,575 --> 00:54:27,215
Georgia Hampton: Yes. We'll see
if

1083
00:54:27,215 --> 00:54:30,095
Mike Rugnetta: past Jason agrees
with the whims of present Jason.

1084
00:54:32,015 --> 00:54:34,495
Jason Oberholtzer: Well, I
myself feel like something of a

1085
00:54:34,495 --> 00:54:38,650
shit bottle right now. So I
think that's as good a reason as

1086
00:54:38,650 --> 00:54:41,610
any to say, thank you all for
your one word graffiti. You did

1087
00:54:41,610 --> 00:54:44,970
much better this time around.
I'm proud of you all and my

1088
00:54:44,970 --> 00:54:51,195
holiday gift is for the next
mailbag, you can send me two and

1089
00:54:51,195 --> 00:54:54,315
only two word graffiti. Oh.

1090
00:54:54,315 --> 00:54:57,915
Wow. Thank you all your little
shit bottles out there. See you

1091
00:54:57,915 --> 00:54:58,555
next time.

1092
00:54:58,555 --> 00:55:00,475
Mike Rugnetta: Thanks for
listening everybody. Done.