1 00:00:10,720 --> 00:00:14,075 Mike Rugnetta: Friends, hello, and welcome to Never Post, a 2 00:00:14,075 --> 00:00:16,475 podcast for and about the Internet. I'm your host Mike 3 00:00:16,475 --> 00:00:21,115 Rugnetta. This intro was written on Tuesday, 02/24/2026 at 4 00:00:21,115 --> 00:00:27,355 03:04PM eastern, and we have a just in time show for you this 5 00:00:27,355 --> 00:00:30,560 week. In this episode, I chat with Jeffrey Parkin of 6 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:36,400 rogue.site and Rory Carroll of alloymag.com about how the chip 7 00:00:36,400 --> 00:00:40,000 shortage caused by the construction boom in AI data 8 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:43,965 centers will come not just for the PC market, but also video 9 00:00:43,965 --> 00:00:47,485 games, automobiles, and countless other consumer 10 00:00:47,485 --> 00:00:49,565 industries. How did this happen? 11 00:00:49,565 --> 00:00:53,805 Why is there no easy way out? And how should you as a consumer 12 00:00:53,965 --> 00:00:57,370 be thinking about these things? But first, we're gonna take a 13 00:00:57,370 --> 00:00:59,690 quick break. You're gonna listen to some ads unless you're on the 14 00:00:59,690 --> 00:01:02,650 member feed. And when we return, we're gonna talk about a few of 15 00:01:02,650 --> 00:01:04,810 the things that have happened since the last time you heard 16 00:01:04,810 --> 00:01:05,530 from us. 17 00:01:07,370 --> 00:01:11,615 Baby, can't you see? I'm calling. A guy like you should 18 00:01:11,615 --> 00:01:17,775 wear a warning. It's dangerous. I'm falling for six stories this 19 00:01:17,775 --> 00:01:18,335 week. 20 00:01:19,695 --> 00:01:23,695 New Mexico has passed the first statewide Internet affordability 21 00:01:23,695 --> 00:01:27,280 law in The United States. This month, governor Grisham signed 22 00:01:27,280 --> 00:01:30,480 into law legislation that will allow the state to provide up to 23 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:34,800 $30 a month to households to subsidize an Internet connection 24 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:39,475 with a statewide cap of $45,000,000 annually. On 25 00:01:39,475 --> 00:01:42,835 01/01/2022, the Federal Communications Commission 26 00:01:42,835 --> 00:01:47,795 launched their affordable connectivity program or ACP, 27 00:01:47,795 --> 00:01:52,835 which according to its own dashboard, set aside a total of 28 00:01:51,270 --> 00:01:58,550 $14,200,000,000 and spent 715,000,000 per month to help 29 00:01:58,550 --> 00:02:02,710 American households pay their Internet bills. That program was 30 00:02:02,710 --> 00:02:09,015 discontinued on 06/01/2024 after funding rollout and adoption 31 00:02:09,015 --> 00:02:13,255 issues. No federal assistance program is planned to take its 32 00:02:13,255 --> 00:02:17,015 place, so New Mexico is the first state to take the issue up 33 00:02:17,015 --> 00:02:17,575 itself. 34 00:02:22,190 --> 00:02:25,870 TikTok is doing just fine. The platform's US operations were 35 00:02:25,870 --> 00:02:28,910 recently taken up by a new conglomerate of owners. You can 36 00:02:28,910 --> 00:02:31,865 see our previous news episode for details on that. And 37 00:02:31,865 --> 00:02:36,585 following that transition, its user base remains at around 95% 38 00:02:36,585 --> 00:02:41,225 of what it was beforehand, reports Censor Tower. CNBC 39 00:02:41,225 --> 00:02:45,065 writes quote, early narratives of a mass user exodus prompted 40 00:02:45,065 --> 00:02:48,750 by service outages and censorship concerns now appear 41 00:02:48,750 --> 00:02:49,870 overstated. 42 00:02:49,870 --> 00:02:53,070 And they continue later, the average daily time spent by 43 00:02:53,070 --> 00:02:56,430 American users on the platform has since returned to around 44 00:02:56,430 --> 00:02:59,790 eighty minutes after dipping to an average of seventy seven 45 00:02:59,790 --> 00:03:03,535 minutes during the week of the reported disruptions, end quote. 46 00:03:03,775 --> 00:03:06,815 TechCrunch reports that, quote, competing video apps like 47 00:03:06,815 --> 00:03:11,135 Upscrolled and Skylight Social saw rapid user adoption as some 48 00:03:11,135 --> 00:03:14,300 looked for TikTok alternatives, end quote. But according to 49 00:03:14,300 --> 00:03:17,740 widely shared usage data, many people who left appear to have 50 00:03:17,740 --> 00:03:23,180 returned within days. Hey. Hey. 51 00:03:25,020 --> 00:03:28,455 Whatever happened to Tmall? The international shoddy goods 52 00:03:28,455 --> 00:03:31,575 retailer had a meteoric rise alongside competitors like the 53 00:03:31,575 --> 00:03:34,855 TikTok shop, but has faced recent challenges as regulators 54 00:03:34,855 --> 00:03:38,775 in Turkey, the EU, and Poland have set their sights on the 55 00:03:38,775 --> 00:03:42,550 site according to rest of world magazine. The retailer is being 56 00:03:42,550 --> 00:03:45,270 investigated for misleading advertising, undisclosed 57 00:03:45,270 --> 00:03:48,390 subsidies from the government of China, and monopolistic 58 00:03:48,390 --> 00:03:52,790 practices amongst other charges. Since 2024, Tmall's parent 59 00:03:52,790 --> 00:03:57,495 company, PPD Holdings, has posted a $45,000,000,000 revenue 60 00:03:57,735 --> 00:04:03,495 loss down from around 60 to 15,000,000,000. In the coming 61 00:04:03,495 --> 00:04:06,535 year, the expiration of several de minimis duty exemptions 62 00:04:06,535 --> 00:04:09,735 around the world threatens their bottom line even further. 63 00:04:12,290 --> 00:04:17,650 The content algorithm on x has real world political impacts. A 64 00:04:17,650 --> 00:04:20,290 new study in the journal Nature found that people subjected to 65 00:04:20,290 --> 00:04:23,570 an algorithmic feed on Elon Musk's social network were more 66 00:04:23,570 --> 00:04:27,330 likely to adopt conservative political positions quote, 67 00:04:27,595 --> 00:04:31,355 particularly regarding policy priorities, perceptions of 68 00:04:31,355 --> 00:04:34,555 criminal investigations into Donald Trump, and views on the 69 00:04:34,555 --> 00:04:38,155 war in Ukraine, end quote. People would follow 70 00:04:38,155 --> 00:04:41,780 algorithmically promoted, quote, conservative activist accounts 71 00:04:41,860 --> 00:04:44,820 and would continue following them even after algorithmic 72 00:04:44,820 --> 00:04:48,340 service was discontinued. People involved in the study, however, 73 00:04:48,340 --> 00:04:53,540 did not exhibit shifts in self reported effective polarization, 74 00:04:53,540 --> 00:04:56,420 which is measured via questions about, quote, life satisfaction, 75 00:04:56,855 --> 00:05:00,855 partisanship, and fueling thermometers for Democrats and 76 00:05:00,855 --> 00:05:03,735 Republicans. Meaning, though their attitudes may have 77 00:05:03,735 --> 00:05:06,935 shifted, they were themselves unaware of the shift. 78 00:05:06,935 --> 00:05:08,055 Jeffrey Parkin: You got more? 79 00:05:08,055 --> 00:05:11,575 Mike Rugnetta: No. Goldman Sachs has just launched an AI free 80 00:05:11,575 --> 00:05:16,740 index fund. SPXX AI lets you quote invest in the S and P 500 81 00:05:16,740 --> 00:05:22,500 benchmark index minus all things AI, reports Axios. This as 82 00:05:22,500 --> 00:05:26,115 discussion of the so called AI bubble reaches increasingly many 83 00:05:26,115 --> 00:05:32,195 corners of financial speculation and well, the economy. Funds 84 00:05:32,195 --> 00:05:36,275 like SPXx AI allow investors the security of a highly diversified 85 00:05:36,275 --> 00:05:39,340 index while isolating their exposure to what they may feel 86 00:05:39,340 --> 00:05:42,380 is the risky bet of robots that generate pictures of monkeys in 87 00:05:42,380 --> 00:05:43,180 bikinis. 88 00:05:43,260 --> 00:05:46,300 Goldman refers to the stocks which make up the fund as quote, 89 00:05:46,700 --> 00:05:54,585 old economy stocks. Polymarket has partnered with Substack, 90 00:05:54,745 --> 00:05:57,145 getting a start on what is quickly shaping up to be the 91 00:05:57,145 --> 00:06:00,985 nightmare blunt rotation of platforms. The partnership will 92 00:06:00,985 --> 00:06:04,025 allow, quote, Substack users to integrate Polymarket's 93 00:06:04,025 --> 00:06:07,580 prediction data directly into their content, end quote. 94 00:06:07,580 --> 00:06:10,700 According to a thehill.com story that reads a bit like a press 95 00:06:10,700 --> 00:06:13,900 release, if I'm being honest. Substack claims a fair number of 96 00:06:13,900 --> 00:06:16,460 their top newsletters are already making use of the 97 00:06:16,460 --> 00:06:19,260 prediction market platform's data to write about current 98 00:06:19,260 --> 00:06:23,255 events, with Polymarket going so far as to say journalism is 99 00:06:23,255 --> 00:06:26,215 better when it's backed by live markets. 100 00:06:26,695 --> 00:06:29,175 For those not in the know, Polymarket and other related 101 00:06:29,175 --> 00:06:32,055 platforms like Kalshi allow people to place money on the 102 00:06:32,055 --> 00:06:35,920 outcome of everyday events, most regularly sports related, But in 103 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:39,520 practice, the quote markets range from wagers on the 104 00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:43,680 likelihood of Jesus' return to The US striking Iran. Polymarket 105 00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:48,240 and its adherents claim these quote markets provide insight 106 00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:51,975 into newsworthy events and the unfolding of culturally moments 107 00:06:51,975 --> 00:06:55,735 thanks to the wisdom of crowds. Something anyone who has spent 108 00:06:55,735 --> 00:06:58,135 even ten minutes online will know is complete bullshit 109 00:06:58,135 --> 00:07:02,775 outside the walls of Wikipedia and maybe, let's say, 60% of 110 00:07:02,775 --> 00:07:04,055 Reddit on a good day. 111 00:07:04,055 --> 00:07:04,775 Rory Carroll: My lady. 112 00:07:04,775 --> 00:07:08,990 Mike Rugnetta: And finally, artificial intelligence needs 113 00:07:09,550 --> 00:07:14,350 Taiwan. The single biggest threat to the world economy, US 114 00:07:14,350 --> 00:07:19,070 treasury secretary Scott Besson said at Davos last month. The 115 00:07:18,605 --> 00:07:23,565 single biggest point of single failure is that 97% of the high 116 00:07:23,565 --> 00:07:30,285 end chips are made in Taiwan, end quote, and everyone wants 117 00:07:30,285 --> 00:07:36,870 them. No industry more so than tech who has made a run on the 118 00:07:36,870 --> 00:07:40,390 world's supply of various semiconductor products from 119 00:07:40,390 --> 00:07:45,590 processors to RAM to storage in their haste to build AI data 120 00:07:45,590 --> 00:07:49,485 centers. And this is the case most notably in The US and 121 00:07:49,485 --> 00:07:53,405 China, two countries currently locked in a heated rivalry. 122 00:07:54,765 --> 00:07:57,885 The soothsayers for the American economy, which is now not much 123 00:07:57,885 --> 00:08:00,525 more than a pile of consumer goods balanced atop a few AI 124 00:08:00,525 --> 00:08:03,520 data center toothpicks, have grown increasingly wary of 125 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:06,880 China's technological advances, going so far as to consider it a 126 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:10,640 matter of national security to quote, implement countrywide 127 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:14,320 controls on key choke point semiconductor manufacturing 128 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:18,375 equipment and subcomponents, end quote, so that they cannot make 129 00:08:18,375 --> 00:08:21,895 their way into the country. They are also aware that China could, 130 00:08:21,895 --> 00:08:26,375 at any moment, blockade Taiwan and cut off the world's supply 131 00:08:26,375 --> 00:08:30,980 of advanced semiconductor technology. As such, The US has 132 00:08:30,980 --> 00:08:34,660 been attempting to broker a trade deal with Taiwan. One 133 00:08:34,660 --> 00:08:37,460 aspect of which would involve the country assisting in opening 134 00:08:37,460 --> 00:08:41,955 facilities in The United States with US commerce secretary 135 00:08:41,955 --> 00:08:45,875 Howard Lutnick claiming the country would move 40% of its 136 00:08:45,875 --> 00:08:50,115 capacity stateside. Taiwan's vice premier Chen Lichen, 137 00:08:50,115 --> 00:08:53,795 however, described this outcome as simply not possible. 138 00:08:53,795 --> 00:08:57,160 Not only because, in her words, it's impossible to allocate 139 00:08:57,160 --> 00:09:00,760 based on production capacity, but also because The US doesn't 140 00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:05,640 currently have the labor pool to support the industry and TSMC, 141 00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:09,320 Taiwan's largest and most accomplished chip manufacturer 142 00:09:08,985 --> 00:09:12,665 who contracts with Apple and Nvidia among others is one of 143 00:09:12,665 --> 00:09:17,625 the island nation's biggest deterrents against China who 144 00:09:17,625 --> 00:09:22,185 relies on their output for its own tech sector. Global reliance 145 00:09:22,185 --> 00:09:26,380 on Taiwan's manufacturing has been called its silicon shield 146 00:09:26,380 --> 00:09:30,540 against Chinese aggression. The upshot here is any capacity to 147 00:09:30,540 --> 00:09:35,900 build chips in The US is years and maybe decades away, but 148 00:09:35,900 --> 00:09:39,715 there is a looming a chip shortage now. One that's about 149 00:09:39,715 --> 00:09:43,955 to touch upon nearly every major industry, a broad swath of 150 00:09:43,955 --> 00:09:49,075 consumer goods ranging from video games to cars. How did we 151 00:09:49,075 --> 00:09:50,115 get to this point? 152 00:09:50,115 --> 00:09:54,195 What can we expect from the next couple years, and how should we, 153 00:09:54,600 --> 00:10:01,480 as mere consumers prepare? After a short break, me, Jeffrey 154 00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:41,335 Parkin, and Rory Caroll discuss. Joining me are Jeffrey Parkin, 155 00:10:41,335 --> 00:10:44,695 co owner and founder at the independent video game news and 156 00:10:44,695 --> 00:10:48,690 criticism site rogue.site. Jeffrey, thanks for being here. 157 00:10:48,690 --> 00:10:49,490 Jeffrey Parkin: Thank you. 158 00:10:49,490 --> 00:10:52,130 Mike Rugnetta: And Rory Carroll, co founder, publisher and 159 00:10:52,130 --> 00:10:54,690 editorial director at the independent car culture site 160 00:10:54,690 --> 00:10:58,290 alloymag.com. Rory, appreciate it. 161 00:10:58,290 --> 00:10:59,330 Rory Carroll: Hey, thanks for having me. 162 00:10:59,795 --> 00:11:02,835 Mike Rugnetta: So here on Neverpost and your respective 163 00:11:02,835 --> 00:11:06,035 sites, we've covered a lot of these headlines. Demand for 164 00:11:06,035 --> 00:11:09,795 memory and storage space has skyrocketed caused by the 165 00:11:09,795 --> 00:11:13,210 construction boom in AI data centers. And this means that 166 00:11:13,210 --> 00:11:15,770 those things are gonna be harder and harder to get a hold of for 167 00:11:15,770 --> 00:11:18,170 consumers, which means that their prices are gonna 168 00:11:18,170 --> 00:11:21,130 skyrocket. And this is something that folks, if they want to have 169 00:11:21,130 --> 00:11:25,210 direct experience of this right now, they can go to newegg.com 170 00:11:25,210 --> 00:11:29,365 or their computer retailer of choice, search for, let's say, 171 00:11:29,365 --> 00:11:35,205 RAM sticks or an SSD and, you know, brace themselves. In some 172 00:11:35,205 --> 00:11:38,725 scenarios, there are prices that are four to five times higher 173 00:11:38,725 --> 00:11:41,765 than they were as recently as about a year ago. 174 00:11:42,330 --> 00:11:46,650 But the thing that I think has gone a little bit underreported 175 00:11:46,650 --> 00:11:50,010 in a lot of this is that this is also the case for entire 176 00:11:50,010 --> 00:11:54,170 industries, two of which, we're gonna discuss with you guys, 177 00:11:54,170 --> 00:11:58,625 experts in them respectively, right now, video games and 178 00:11:58,625 --> 00:12:02,785 automobiles. So my first question for the both of you is 179 00:12:02,785 --> 00:12:07,505 just, when manufacturing and distribution of these things is 180 00:12:07,505 --> 00:12:12,065 working as expected, like, on a normal Thursday, like, what 181 00:12:12,065 --> 00:12:16,680 should this process look like for video games and for cars? 182 00:12:16,680 --> 00:12:19,720 Like, who is supplying the components for what purpose and, 183 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:21,400 like, how do they get to where they need to go? 184 00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:23,640 Jeffrey Parkin: I'm actually gonna jump in first because 185 00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:28,845 video games, especially consoles, work on a really weird 186 00:12:28,925 --> 00:12:34,525 cadence. The PS five and the newest Xbox, the series x, came 187 00:12:34,525 --> 00:12:40,045 out in 2020. So there's this huge boom in manufacturing and 188 00:12:40,045 --> 00:12:43,890 releasing them, and then it dies off over the next roughly eight 189 00:12:43,890 --> 00:12:48,770 years or so. Ideally, like we saw with the Switch two, there's 190 00:12:48,770 --> 00:12:53,010 all of the purchasing of these semiconductors and microchips 191 00:12:53,010 --> 00:12:56,050 and RAM and everything else that go into the consoles that you 192 00:12:56,050 --> 00:13:01,595 buy, and then they just maintain their stock as necessary. And 193 00:13:01,755 --> 00:13:07,275 the reason that this has come up for us recently, it's about time 194 00:13:07,275 --> 00:13:10,875 to be talking about the next generation of video game 195 00:13:10,875 --> 00:13:16,470 consoles, like the PS six and whatever bizarre amalgamation of 196 00:13:16,470 --> 00:13:18,790 letters Microsoft comes up with. 197 00:13:19,270 --> 00:13:24,630 The news with all of the AI data centers buying up everything is 198 00:13:24,630 --> 00:13:28,545 that those big companies, Sony and Microsoft, are probably 199 00:13:28,545 --> 00:13:33,665 going to have to push out their next launch. 200 00:13:33,745 --> 00:13:36,785 Mike Rugnetta: And so are they buying huge supplies of these 201 00:13:36,785 --> 00:13:41,905 components for launches and then, like, smaller amounts as 202 00:13:40,850 --> 00:13:42,370 demand dwindles. 203 00:13:42,450 --> 00:13:43,890 Jeffrey Parkin: That is my understanding of it. 204 00:13:43,890 --> 00:13:44,770 Mike Rugnetta: Yeah. Got it. 205 00:13:44,770 --> 00:13:48,770 Jeffrey Parkin: I know, like, cars come out every year. So I 206 00:13:48,770 --> 00:13:51,010 imagine that the process is a lot different. 207 00:13:51,010 --> 00:13:53,250 Rory Carroll: Well, it's actually not super different. I 208 00:13:53,250 --> 00:13:55,795 think, like, cars do come out and there's a new model year 209 00:13:55,795 --> 00:14:00,355 over year, but really cars are on a five or ten year cycle. So 210 00:14:00,355 --> 00:14:03,075 what you'll usually get is the introduction of a new model, 211 00:14:03,155 --> 00:14:05,795 which is like, generally speaking, a whole new 212 00:14:05,795 --> 00:14:09,020 architecture, a whole new, you know, from the wheels up new 213 00:14:09,020 --> 00:14:12,140 car, then you'll get four or five years later, you'll get a 214 00:14:12,140 --> 00:14:15,980 refresh, which is like, okay, maybe with new headlights, new 215 00:14:15,980 --> 00:14:19,180 exterior design, some new technology inside, and then 216 00:14:19,845 --> 00:14:22,485 you'll push that another five years before you kind of get to 217 00:14:22,485 --> 00:14:25,205 a new model. Sometimes it lasts longer than that. Sometimes it's 218 00:14:25,205 --> 00:14:26,965 a little bit shorter than that depending on how things are 219 00:14:26,965 --> 00:14:27,525 selling. 220 00:14:27,925 --> 00:14:32,085 But that's generally the the schedule. So, you know, the auto 221 00:14:32,085 --> 00:14:34,520 auto industry is not super different from any other 222 00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:38,200 industry in that this stuff gets planned, you know, ten and 223 00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:42,040 fifteen years out. And, like, historically, you know, back 224 00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:44,840 back in the old old days, you used to you'd build cars in this 225 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:48,520 similar cycle. You'd stock up on all the parts that you're going 226 00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:52,465 to need for the entire production run of the car or or 227 00:14:52,465 --> 00:14:55,265 you'd you'd have them being built kind of simultaneously. 228 00:14:55,745 --> 00:14:58,465 And just like every other industry kind of in the last 229 00:14:58,465 --> 00:15:01,105 twenty, thirty years, everybody has gone to this, like, just in 230 00:15:01,105 --> 00:15:04,490 time where it's like stuff should ideally be being produced 231 00:15:04,490 --> 00:15:07,290 and shipped to you exactly the moment you need it. 232 00:15:07,290 --> 00:15:10,330 So you should not have any stock. You should not because 233 00:15:10,330 --> 00:15:12,970 all this all the obviously, like, stock and warehousing 234 00:15:12,970 --> 00:15:15,850 stuff cost money. That's all additional costs. So, like, 235 00:15:16,045 --> 00:15:19,965 ideally, with anything else, you're getting stuff as it is 236 00:15:19,965 --> 00:15:24,045 needed the second it is needed on the assembly line. So that's 237 00:15:24,045 --> 00:15:26,445 kind of like the ideal situation. 238 00:15:26,525 --> 00:15:30,220 Obviously, the car companies, they've had this happen before. 239 00:15:30,220 --> 00:15:34,140 This exact thing happened for different reasons in 2021, and 240 00:15:34,140 --> 00:15:37,820 it was a huge catastrophe for everybody. And they've spent the 241 00:15:37,820 --> 00:15:42,215 last, you know, five years or so figuring out how to prevent this 242 00:15:42,215 --> 00:15:44,855 from happening again. Everyone took this very seriously, and 243 00:15:44,855 --> 00:15:47,575 everybody has taken a lot of kind of affirmative steps to 244 00:15:47,575 --> 00:15:51,495 prevent it from happening. There are some real difficulties in 245 00:15:51,495 --> 00:15:52,615 solving this problem. 246 00:15:52,775 --> 00:15:52,935 I 247 00:15:53,175 --> 00:15:55,015 Mike Rugnetta: and that you know, Rory, you said something 248 00:15:55,015 --> 00:15:58,100 that gets to the next question that I wanna ask, which is, 249 00:15:58,340 --> 00:16:01,940 like, this is a lesson that I have learned maybe a few times 250 00:16:01,940 --> 00:16:07,780 since the pandemic began, which is, all of this comes from one 251 00:16:07,780 --> 00:16:11,700 place or, like, a relatively small number of places, and 252 00:16:11,700 --> 00:16:17,505 there's no plan b? Like, it's just so shocking to me that 253 00:16:17,505 --> 00:16:21,025 consumer electronics, AI data centers, video games, and 254 00:16:21,025 --> 00:16:25,905 automobiles are all being supplied by the same relatively 255 00:16:25,905 --> 00:16:28,520 small number of manufacturers. 256 00:16:28,680 --> 00:16:32,680 Jeffrey Parkin: No. Yeah. There are big names that supply 257 00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:39,400 everybody, and it's really specific manufacturing. Like, 258 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:43,945 even a company as big as Samsung says that it'll take two years 259 00:16:43,945 --> 00:16:46,265 before they can get another plant up and running. 260 00:16:46,265 --> 00:16:46,745 Mike Rugnetta: Well, 261 00:16:46,745 --> 00:16:49,785 Rory Carroll: yeah. There there are big structural issues with 262 00:16:49,785 --> 00:16:52,425 spinning this stuff up. And I think too, I I mean, I think 263 00:16:52,425 --> 00:16:54,425 this is this is something that's kind of plaguing the auto 264 00:16:54,425 --> 00:16:57,940 industry generally in The States. You know, if you ask a 265 00:16:57,940 --> 00:17:01,140 car executive if you have asked a car executive anytime in the 266 00:17:01,140 --> 00:17:03,700 last twenty years what they want from the government, they will 267 00:17:03,700 --> 00:17:06,740 tell you it's stability. It's like, they don't care what the 268 00:17:06,740 --> 00:17:07,380 standards are. 269 00:17:07,380 --> 00:17:10,100 They don't care what the emission standards are, any of 270 00:17:10,100 --> 00:17:12,645 that stuff. Mean, they do. But, like, the big thing that they 271 00:17:12,645 --> 00:17:16,245 want is to be able to on this ten or twenty year cycle predict 272 00:17:16,325 --> 00:17:20,085 what's going to happen. And I think the answer to a problem 273 00:17:20,085 --> 00:17:22,325 like this in the sixties and seventies would have been, we 274 00:17:22,325 --> 00:17:25,205 will just build our own semiconductor facility. We will 275 00:17:25,205 --> 00:17:26,245 just build our own. 276 00:17:26,485 --> 00:17:29,450 And that may take us a few years, but we're confident that 277 00:17:29,450 --> 00:17:32,010 coming out of the other end of it, it'll be a good investment 278 00:17:32,010 --> 00:17:34,970 and we'll have control over our own supply chain and yada yada. 279 00:17:34,970 --> 00:17:38,730 That's obviously not the response you're getting now. I 280 00:17:38,730 --> 00:17:42,145 think a lot of that is this instability where it's like 281 00:17:42,545 --> 00:17:47,345 you're gonna face these kind of transient issues for a period of 282 00:17:47,345 --> 00:17:50,625 time. The world is going to change change very drastically. 283 00:17:50,625 --> 00:17:53,025 You don't wanna be stuck with the factory that's at lower 284 00:17:53,025 --> 00:17:54,465 capacity or working at low capacity. 285 00:17:55,070 --> 00:17:59,390 And it's like you can't trust the state or you can't trust the 286 00:17:59,390 --> 00:18:03,310 the government to to be asking you to do the same things from 287 00:18:03,310 --> 00:18:05,790 administration to administration, which is like a 288 00:18:05,790 --> 00:18:08,510 very strange I mean, it's to me, like, as a as a watcher of the 289 00:18:08,510 --> 00:18:11,955 car business, watching the government act in kind of 290 00:18:11,955 --> 00:18:15,475 defiance of the car business, like, very strange. Like, that's 291 00:18:15,475 --> 00:18:17,395 a that's never happened to me before. I've never seen that 292 00:18:17,395 --> 00:18:20,195 happen in my lifetime. Or it's happened, like, Clean Air Act. 293 00:18:20,195 --> 00:18:20,755 You know what I mean? 294 00:18:20,755 --> 00:18:26,830 Like, big momentous. But but this is, day to day, hey. We 295 00:18:26,830 --> 00:18:28,830 understand that's what you need to be competitive globally, but 296 00:18:28,830 --> 00:18:30,510 we're not giving it to you. Like, that's never happened 297 00:18:30,510 --> 00:18:33,950 before. It's difficult to imagine any other response for 298 00:18:33,950 --> 00:18:38,350 an automaker but to just hoard whatever they can get from their 299 00:18:38,350 --> 00:18:39,230 suppliers today. 300 00:18:39,230 --> 00:18:42,115 What else would you do except buy as many chips as you can, 301 00:18:42,115 --> 00:18:45,155 which is the same response that every other manufacturer is 302 00:18:45,155 --> 00:18:45,635 having. 303 00:18:45,715 --> 00:18:49,555 Jeffrey Parkin: I actually wanna step back for a second because 304 00:18:49,795 --> 00:18:53,235 as somebody who knows how to turn on a car and not much else, 305 00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:58,240 my first reaction in seeing that, like, the PS six is 306 00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:01,680 running up against car manufacturing was kinda 307 00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:05,840 confusion. Yeah. And I have since come to realize, like, 308 00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:10,895 it's not just the in dashboard displays that this is affecting. 309 00:19:10,895 --> 00:19:14,895 Can you, Rory, talk about where these chips are even going and 310 00:19:14,895 --> 00:19:16,015 what they're used in? 311 00:19:16,175 --> 00:19:20,015 Rory Carroll: Oh, yeah. I think that, you know, the the most new 312 00:19:20,015 --> 00:19:24,630 cars these days will have more than a thousand of these chips. 313 00:19:24,950 --> 00:19:29,670 Some of them have way more than that. But I think what we're 314 00:19:29,670 --> 00:19:32,710 looking at in a a modern car, I think people are, like, very, 315 00:19:32,710 --> 00:19:36,390 very apt to say, like, a car is a computer on wheels these days. 316 00:19:36,390 --> 00:19:39,065 And it's I think, like, that actually undersells it quite a 317 00:19:39,065 --> 00:19:43,305 bit because the amount that you're asking a car to do, a 318 00:19:43,305 --> 00:19:46,665 modern car, just to move down the road as far as, like, 319 00:19:46,665 --> 00:19:48,985 computing demand is crazy. 320 00:19:48,985 --> 00:19:52,340 I mean, the the easy stuff, like, okay, who's you know, how 321 00:19:52,340 --> 00:19:55,620 are you controlling the infotainment screen in a a car 322 00:19:55,620 --> 00:20:00,340 in the eighties? Your HVAC, so heat and cold and all that stuff 323 00:20:00,340 --> 00:20:03,540 would be controlled by a series of cables. That's all digitally 324 00:20:03,540 --> 00:20:07,355 controlled now. How do you open your gas cap door? There's that 325 00:20:07,355 --> 00:20:11,995 that kind of stuff, but there's also the actual behavior of the 326 00:20:11,995 --> 00:20:15,115 car is is very heavily controlled by computers. 327 00:20:15,115 --> 00:20:19,460 So I think, like, as cars have gotten larger, the cars have in 328 00:20:19,460 --> 00:20:23,060 turn gotten heavier. Batteries, especially like modern cars with 329 00:20:23,060 --> 00:20:27,220 with hybrid batteries or EV batteries, got very heavy. And 330 00:20:27,220 --> 00:20:30,420 in order to keep the car, like, moving down the road safely, 331 00:20:31,025 --> 00:20:33,585 that requires a ton of computing power. So you have sensors that 332 00:20:33,585 --> 00:20:35,425 are reading your wheel speed. You have sensors that are 333 00:20:35,425 --> 00:20:36,865 reading brake temperature. 334 00:20:36,865 --> 00:20:40,065 You have sensors that are reading comparing all that stuff 335 00:20:40,065 --> 00:20:44,705 together and then making the actual suspension or brakes in 336 00:20:44,705 --> 00:20:49,290 the car behave a certain way to either maintain your comfort or 337 00:20:49,290 --> 00:20:52,090 to maintain traction on the road. So it's like I mean, 338 00:20:52,090 --> 00:20:54,570 there's there's this is like a longer discussion, but I I had 339 00:20:54,570 --> 00:20:58,170 this super long discussion with Porsche a few months ago. Their 340 00:20:58,170 --> 00:21:01,245 their cars have gotten, as all cars have, have gotten heavier 341 00:21:01,245 --> 00:21:04,445 and heavier and heavier. Over the last ten years, as they know 342 00:21:04,445 --> 00:21:06,685 this, they they recognize the cars are getting heavier. So 343 00:21:06,685 --> 00:21:11,005 they have now three separate suspension technologies that are 344 00:21:11,005 --> 00:21:14,045 designed to mask the weight of the car for the driver. 345 00:21:14,045 --> 00:21:18,920 So the car in real time is sensing where it is in the road 346 00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:21,480 and then in some cases, like it's being suspended from a 347 00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:26,520 helicopter adjusting the pitch Woah. And the dive of the car to 348 00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:29,400 erase the sensation that you would have of a very heavy car 349 00:21:29,505 --> 00:21:32,785 diving under braking. There are all these knock on effects that 350 00:21:32,785 --> 00:21:37,985 make these cars infinitely more complicated and heavier and 351 00:21:37,985 --> 00:21:39,985 technically better. Like they are faster, they're more 352 00:21:39,985 --> 00:21:41,985 efficient, they're, you know, they're yada yada yada. Like 353 00:21:41,985 --> 00:21:43,505 they do all this other stuff. 354 00:21:43,745 --> 00:21:47,820 The cars are being asked to defy physics. They're being asked to 355 00:21:48,220 --> 00:21:51,260 deliver performance and efficiency that, like, should 356 00:21:51,260 --> 00:21:53,980 not be possible. And, like, that's how you end up with 3,000 357 00:21:53,980 --> 00:21:57,500 sensors in the car. It's like or 3,000 chips. Like, that's how it 358 00:21:57,500 --> 00:21:57,740 happens. 359 00:21:57,825 --> 00:22:00,625 Mike Rugnetta: The car is not a not necessarily a computer on 360 00:22:00,625 --> 00:22:05,105 wheels, but a data center on wheels, and therefore, the the 361 00:22:05,105 --> 00:22:08,865 competition there is maybe makes a little bit more sense. I'm 362 00:22:08,865 --> 00:22:12,800 curious. I would love to ask you to a question that I don't you 363 00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:15,040 might not know the answer to, but I'm curious if you've come 364 00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:18,480 across a justification in the reporting that you've done so 365 00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:22,240 far, which is like, is there a business case for chip 366 00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:26,320 manufacturers to supply data centers almost exclusively? 367 00:22:27,015 --> 00:22:30,855 Because it seems like there's so much of a downside, you know, 368 00:22:30,855 --> 00:22:35,655 just maybe societally or, you know, with in their relationship 369 00:22:35,655 --> 00:22:40,215 with other industries. Like, are they being paid more per chip by 370 00:22:40,695 --> 00:22:41,975 Sam Altman and crew? 371 00:22:42,470 --> 00:22:46,070 Jeffrey Parkin: The answer is and I'm gonna try to avoid, 372 00:22:46,070 --> 00:22:49,350 like, angry phrases like short termism here, 373 00:22:49,350 --> 00:22:50,070 Rory Carroll: but Sure. 374 00:22:50,310 --> 00:22:53,990 Jeffrey Parkin: Data center hyperscalers like Meta, Google, 375 00:22:53,990 --> 00:23:01,895 Amazon are buying 70% of the supply of these semiconductors 376 00:23:01,895 --> 00:23:06,375 at this point, there's absolutely no reason not to sell 377 00:23:06,375 --> 00:23:07,015 to them. 378 00:23:07,015 --> 00:23:07,335 Mike Rugnetta: Mhmm. 379 00:23:07,335 --> 00:23:10,650 Jeffrey Parkin: If they're building half $1,000,000,000,000 380 00:23:10,650 --> 00:23:14,970 worth of data centers this year, why wouldn't you get in on that? 381 00:23:15,050 --> 00:23:19,930 Yeah. And that's exactly what we saw with Micron just a few 382 00:23:19,930 --> 00:23:26,925 months ago. Micron, shut down their consumer RAM supply to 383 00:23:26,925 --> 00:23:30,685 focus exclusively on high bandwidth memory for data 384 00:23:30,685 --> 00:23:31,245 center. 385 00:23:31,325 --> 00:23:33,885 Rory Carroll: I think this whole thing is a really interesting I 386 00:23:33,885 --> 00:23:37,725 think, like, this is one of the fun things about cars generally, 387 00:23:37,725 --> 00:23:41,000 but it's like you get all these great illustrations of kinda 388 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:44,680 like what the limits of the system are. You know, you have 389 00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:48,440 all of these companies acting in their own short short term self 390 00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:51,720 interest because they're all responsible to their 391 00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:55,505 shareholders on a quarter by quarter basis, and they're all 392 00:23:55,505 --> 00:23:59,505 so well optimized. They all know exactly what kind of a shortage 393 00:23:59,505 --> 00:24:02,625 they can survive and what kind of where they can get extra 394 00:24:02,625 --> 00:24:06,305 supply when they need to. Like, this they they know so much, but 395 00:24:06,305 --> 00:24:11,150 there's so little incentive for anyone to make a long term 396 00:24:11,150 --> 00:24:14,830 investment in anything. Even if they know down the road, it 397 00:24:14,830 --> 00:24:16,350 would it would help them or whatever. 398 00:24:16,670 --> 00:24:21,550 The risk or the the fear of of being kind of hung out on a big 399 00:24:21,550 --> 00:24:25,175 investment is it keeps people from making those long term 400 00:24:25,175 --> 00:24:29,175 decisions. And I think, like, you run up against these, and I 401 00:24:29,175 --> 00:24:30,935 think, like, all of manufacturing in The United 402 00:24:30,935 --> 00:24:32,855 States and all these kind of big companies in United States are 403 00:24:32,855 --> 00:24:38,960 running up against these, like, very hard limits to what this 404 00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:42,080 economic system will do. Yeah. Which is really, really 405 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:46,080 fascinating. I mean, it's it's it'd be fun to watch if it 406 00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:46,800 wasn't like 407 00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:47,120 Mike Rugnetta: Us. 408 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:48,480 Rory Carroll: Your four zero one k. Yeah. 409 00:24:50,135 --> 00:24:52,695 Mike Rugnetta: It makes me think of, you know, like, I see in 410 00:24:52,695 --> 00:24:57,095 reporting, you know, Apple is able to say that they are gonna 411 00:24:57,095 --> 00:25:00,295 be able to continue manufacturing phones and laptops 412 00:25:00,295 --> 00:25:03,415 and, you know, a bunch of their a bunch of their goods without 413 00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:07,400 having to increase prices or not having to increase them too much 414 00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:10,680 because they were able to secure these long term supply deals 415 00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:14,280 with all of these manufacturers. And I'm assuming it's just the 416 00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:16,440 case that, like, they are able to do that, and they're able to 417 00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:18,760 do that with confidence and at the scale that they can because 418 00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:22,785 they are Apple. And that as big as the video game industry and 419 00:25:22,785 --> 00:25:26,545 the automobile industry are, they just aren't Apple, and so 420 00:25:26,545 --> 00:25:30,065 they aren't doing long term deals. You know, they're they're 421 00:25:30,065 --> 00:25:32,785 doing the sort of just in time production like you described, 422 00:25:32,785 --> 00:25:33,905 Rory. Is that that's the case? 423 00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:35,120 Rory Carroll: Yeah. It's a buying power 424 00:25:35,120 --> 00:25:35,600 Mike Rugnetta: thing. Yeah. 425 00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:37,120 Rory Carroll: A good year selling cars in The United 426 00:25:37,120 --> 00:25:38,800 States is, like, 15,000,000 cars. 427 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:42,640 Jeffrey Parkin: Yeah. And that's that's slightly less than the 428 00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:47,405 Switch two is sold Yeah. Since last July, I think. 429 00:25:47,405 --> 00:25:49,805 Mike Rugnetta: So it's just orders of magnitude of 430 00:25:49,805 --> 00:25:50,445 difference. 431 00:25:50,445 --> 00:25:52,845 Jeffrey Parkin: A really good comparison that I had to look up 432 00:25:52,845 --> 00:25:59,050 because I just didn't know. NVIDIA's Next AI card, like the 433 00:25:59,050 --> 00:26:05,050 entire card that you plug into a server rack, has about 30 times 434 00:26:05,050 --> 00:26:10,570 as much RAM in it as a standard computer or or a PS five for 435 00:26:10,570 --> 00:26:15,395 that matter. So Yeah. A single card that goes into those giant 436 00:26:15,395 --> 00:26:20,035 server racks at a data center of which there are hundreds of 437 00:26:20,035 --> 00:26:24,675 server racks. So suddenly, it's these numbers are 438 00:26:24,675 --> 00:26:26,115 incomprehensibly huge. 439 00:26:26,540 --> 00:26:28,620 Rory Carroll: Yeah. And there there is a really interesting I 440 00:26:28,620 --> 00:26:30,940 mean, again, another interesting kind of case study. You know, 441 00:26:30,940 --> 00:26:35,260 the the CHIPS Act under the Biden administration was one of 442 00:26:35,260 --> 00:26:38,460 these kind of, like, efforts by the federal government to kind 443 00:26:38,460 --> 00:26:42,965 of address this issue. And they they ended up passing a bill and 444 00:26:42,965 --> 00:26:46,005 getting a bunch of money appropriated. The kind of 445 00:26:46,005 --> 00:26:50,885 intervening whatever it's been four or five years since getting 446 00:26:50,885 --> 00:26:54,760 these facilities up and running has been massively difficult and 447 00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:55,320 complicated. 448 00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:58,440 And I think, like, the Biden administration towards the end 449 00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:01,160 was kind of scrambling to get this money spent and ended up 450 00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:03,800 giving up on a bunch of, like, labor and environmental 451 00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:05,880 protections that they had promised to get this stuff 452 00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:10,265 through. Getting them built is one thing. It's very expensive 453 00:27:10,265 --> 00:27:12,905 compared to places elsewhere in the world where you'd build 454 00:27:12,905 --> 00:27:17,625 them. The United States does not have the labor force for this, 455 00:27:17,625 --> 00:27:19,865 like people who aren't accustomed to doing this. And 456 00:27:19,865 --> 00:27:22,870 then also their supply chain getting these materials 457 00:27:22,870 --> 00:27:23,430 delivered. 458 00:27:23,430 --> 00:27:27,910 Like, this is a very mature industry elsewhere in the world, 459 00:27:27,910 --> 00:27:32,310 in China specifically, and like it is very, very difficult 460 00:27:32,310 --> 00:27:36,335 without a moonshot level kind of investment and kind of some very 461 00:27:36,335 --> 00:27:38,255 strong handed public policy 462 00:27:38,415 --> 00:27:38,575 Mike Rugnetta: Yeah. 463 00:27:38,655 --> 00:27:41,775 Rory Carroll: To imagine, like, moving something like that to 464 00:27:41,775 --> 00:27:42,735 The United States. 465 00:27:42,815 --> 00:27:46,175 Mike Rugnetta: I'm curious if there is you know, the story of 466 00:27:46,175 --> 00:27:50,415 artificial intelligence over the last couple years has been it's 467 00:27:50,020 --> 00:27:55,220 being taken up by increasingly many industries, released the 468 00:27:55,380 --> 00:27:59,460 upper level management and the c suite of various actors within 469 00:27:59,460 --> 00:28:04,180 those industries insisting that it be implemented or used at 470 00:28:04,180 --> 00:28:07,265 certain points. And I'm curious if you have a sense of if there 471 00:28:07,265 --> 00:28:11,745 is now, like, inter industry drama, for lack of a better 472 00:28:11,745 --> 00:28:15,265 phrase. Like, is the automobile industry looking at the tech 473 00:28:15,265 --> 00:28:17,905 sector? Is video games looking at tech and being like, dog, 474 00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:21,400 like, what the fuck? You know, like, we I thought we were in 475 00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:24,280 this together, and now, like, like, this makes everything so 476 00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:25,000 much harder. 477 00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:27,320 Jeffrey Parkin: Like you said, it's the c suite. Like, 478 00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:31,640 everybody up top is talking about how AI is gonna change 479 00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:36,195 everything, and the people who are actually doing it don't 480 00:28:36,195 --> 00:28:41,155 care. Like, don't use it, don't want it. We focus a lot on indie 481 00:28:41,155 --> 00:28:44,595 games just because there are more of them and they're more 482 00:28:44,595 --> 00:28:47,630 interesting to talk about sometimes. But you're starting 483 00:28:47,630 --> 00:28:52,670 to see, like, made by a human in in game descriptions, and, like, 484 00:28:52,670 --> 00:28:54,350 no AI was used. 485 00:28:55,070 --> 00:28:58,190 At the same time, you're starting to see pushes for 486 00:28:58,190 --> 00:29:03,565 disclosures because there are, Steam Next Fest starts today. 487 00:29:03,565 --> 00:29:06,925 There's a bunch of demos of people promoting their games, 488 00:29:07,165 --> 00:29:13,000 and even Steam is starting to push for, not require, a 489 00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:17,880 disclosure for how AI was used. And I saw my first one today 490 00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:22,040 that was AI was used in the coding of this game. 491 00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:24,120 Rory Carroll: You know, the car industry has been really funny, 492 00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:27,215 especially over the last, like, twenty, thirty years because the 493 00:29:27,215 --> 00:29:29,855 people now who are like in charge of car companies are like 494 00:29:29,855 --> 00:29:32,815 in their fifties and sixties. And they all have like this kind 495 00:29:32,815 --> 00:29:36,175 of scar tissue from from the Internet and then from social 496 00:29:36,175 --> 00:29:39,135 media and like where it's like they felt like they got left 497 00:29:39,135 --> 00:29:44,730 behind. And so the result of that has been over this last, 498 00:29:44,730 --> 00:29:49,130 say, ten, twenty years of kind of like the technology flim flam 499 00:29:49,210 --> 00:29:52,865 era of like building and selling technologies that don't really 500 00:29:52,865 --> 00:29:56,305 have a use case. They've been very eager to get wallet 501 00:29:56,305 --> 00:29:59,825 inspected by the Silicon Valley set. And to to their credit, I 502 00:29:59,825 --> 00:30:04,145 mean, I think, like, everybody watched Tesla's stock valuation 503 00:30:04,145 --> 00:30:07,105 go to $400 or $600 or whatever it was. 504 00:30:07,570 --> 00:30:12,130 And GM who made $12,000,000,000 in a profit last year is, like, 505 00:30:12,130 --> 00:30:15,010 at 60. And I think a lot of their board members are saying 506 00:30:15,010 --> 00:30:18,450 like, hey. Why isn't it not like that for us? And the answer to 507 00:30:18,450 --> 00:30:21,410 to that for a lot of these companies has been to get very 508 00:30:21,410 --> 00:30:26,715 heavily invested in the next bleeding edge tech around, like, 509 00:30:27,435 --> 00:30:30,075 design and around manufacturing, but also around, like, 510 00:30:30,075 --> 00:30:33,835 autonomous cars and ride sharing and and all this other stuff. I 511 00:30:33,835 --> 00:30:38,070 think, like, right now, we're seeing most of those companies 512 00:30:38,070 --> 00:30:40,390 feeling like they've been burned by that. 513 00:30:40,390 --> 00:30:43,030 I don't think there's, a like you said, I don't I don't think 514 00:30:43,030 --> 00:30:45,510 there's, like, a rivalry thing happening. I don't think the 515 00:30:45,510 --> 00:30:47,990 auto industry is under any illusions about, like, being on 516 00:30:47,990 --> 00:30:49,350 the same team as any other industry. 517 00:30:49,825 --> 00:30:50,385 Mike Rugnetta: Yeah. Sure. 518 00:30:50,385 --> 00:30:53,265 Rory Carroll: But I I do think that this this has felt a little 519 00:30:53,265 --> 00:30:57,825 bit more cautious. I mean, like, I watched companies dump tens of 520 00:30:57,825 --> 00:31:00,305 millions of dollars into having a virtual storefront in the 521 00:31:00,305 --> 00:31:04,240 metaverse, like, three years ago or whatever or, like, do NFT 522 00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:08,080 stuff a few years ago. They seem to be a little bit closer to 523 00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:11,360 hedging, I think, on this thing than they have, which is good. 524 00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:12,800 Like, that's Yeah. That's smart. 525 00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:14,880 That's a that's like an indication of having learned a 526 00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:18,555 lesson. Yeah. As someone who is screaming when car companies 527 00:31:18,555 --> 00:31:21,595 were opening up metaverse dealerships, this is like a 528 00:31:21,595 --> 00:31:22,555 welcome development. 529 00:31:22,875 --> 00:31:25,115 Jeffrey Parkin: It has always felt like I grew up when 530 00:31:25,115 --> 00:31:28,315 computers were in a computer room, and that's the place where 531 00:31:28,315 --> 00:31:31,640 you went. But it's always felt like there's this disconnect 532 00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:36,920 between real world, like, your car in the driveway stuff and 533 00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:42,295 entertainment and electronic stuff is over here. And in 534 00:31:42,295 --> 00:31:49,655 writing about this and living in 2026, that disconnect between 535 00:31:49,975 --> 00:31:53,815 the computer room and the driveway just doesn't exist 536 00:31:53,815 --> 00:31:58,000 anymore. Yeah. There's what, three, four companies that make 537 00:31:58,000 --> 00:31:58,800 this stuff 538 00:31:58,880 --> 00:31:59,200 Rory Carroll: Yeah. 539 00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:01,760 Jeffrey Parkin: At a at a handful of factories in the 540 00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:02,320 world. 541 00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:04,240 Rory Carroll: There are a few of these companies making the the 542 00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:08,985 chips, but it's like there's one supplier for the machine that 543 00:32:08,985 --> 00:32:11,625 actually writes the thing. It's like, that's nuts. Like, that's 544 00:32:11,625 --> 00:32:16,585 crazy. Fifty years ago, you would build excess capacity. In 545 00:32:16,585 --> 00:32:19,305 the current situation, it's like everything is running on this 546 00:32:19,305 --> 00:32:22,745 kind of bare minimum up and down the board, not just cars and not 547 00:32:22,745 --> 00:32:26,640 just chips, not just like, everything across the board is 548 00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:30,000 running on this bare minimum, like, the all of global 549 00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:32,560 electrical infrastructure or at least like North American 550 00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:35,440 electrical infrastructure, which is like, okay, what's the 551 00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:39,185 minimum amount of money we can invest and still make a return 552 00:32:39,185 --> 00:32:39,585 on this? 553 00:32:39,585 --> 00:32:41,265 Mike Rugnetta: I mean, how ironic is it? Right? That it's 554 00:32:41,265 --> 00:32:44,945 like you look at how you might ameliorate some of these 555 00:32:44,945 --> 00:32:47,505 problems and you start to think about the resources that would 556 00:32:47,505 --> 00:32:51,030 go into doing that. And it's not like they don't exist. It's just 557 00:32:51,030 --> 00:32:53,430 they're all tied up in the bank accounts of tech billionaires 558 00:32:53,430 --> 00:32:58,870 who are investing in, you know, AI data centers and and the 559 00:32:58,870 --> 00:32:59,510 like. 560 00:32:59,670 --> 00:33:03,030 Rory Carroll: That money could be working in the economy, the 561 00:33:03,030 --> 00:33:03,990 broader economy. 562 00:33:03,990 --> 00:33:05,525 Mike Rugnetta: I mean, it's funny to think about what's 563 00:33:05,525 --> 00:33:08,885 going into making AI data centers and, you know, did they 564 00:33:08,885 --> 00:33:12,245 just skip a step? Should they have first sat down and been 565 00:33:12,245 --> 00:33:14,805 like, well, first, we need some factories. Let's get some 566 00:33:14,805 --> 00:33:16,690 factories first and then Yeah. 567 00:33:16,690 --> 00:33:18,290 Rory Carroll: I mean, there's there's no money in doing that. 568 00:33:18,290 --> 00:33:19,490 You're not gonna get to euro. 569 00:33:19,490 --> 00:33:19,890 Mike Rugnetta: Nope. 570 00:33:19,890 --> 00:33:21,970 Rory Carroll: But again, it's like a that's a just a weird 571 00:33:21,970 --> 00:33:24,930 expression of the the system now. It's just like, wow. That's 572 00:33:25,410 --> 00:33:27,090 these contradictions are getting heightened. 573 00:33:27,090 --> 00:33:30,175 Mike Rugnetta: Yeah. Surely, that's not a bad sign. I'm 574 00:33:30,175 --> 00:33:33,535 curious, like, for you guys, like, what is there stuff that 575 00:33:33,535 --> 00:33:36,095 people should, like, look out for? Like, what's gonna happen 576 00:33:36,095 --> 00:33:40,735 next? What is the attitude a consumer should have at the 577 00:33:40,735 --> 00:33:40,975 moment? 578 00:33:41,770 --> 00:33:45,610 Rory Carroll: A good question. I mean, the the price shift will 579 00:33:45,610 --> 00:33:49,290 be slower in cars than it will be anywhere else because sales 580 00:33:49,290 --> 00:33:52,410 are so sensitive to price. I think, like, you know, you'll 581 00:33:52,410 --> 00:33:57,655 see massive swings in profitability based on a $2,500 582 00:33:57,655 --> 00:34:01,255 or $1,500 cash incentive on the hood of a car the hood of a 583 00:34:01,255 --> 00:34:05,335 $50,000 car. Like and the margins on them are very, very 584 00:34:05,335 --> 00:34:08,930 small. So I think, like, you know, now if you're a consumer, 585 00:34:08,930 --> 00:34:10,690 it's not a time to freak out. 586 00:34:11,090 --> 00:34:14,130 If you can stomach the super high interest rates that you'll 587 00:34:14,130 --> 00:34:17,970 pay for a new car right now, it's fine to still do. And I 588 00:34:17,970 --> 00:34:21,835 would also say, like, twenty years ago, the response to a 589 00:34:21,835 --> 00:34:25,835 situation like this or the response to 2021 would be go buy 590 00:34:25,835 --> 00:34:31,435 a used car. Used car prices have come down a little bit since the 591 00:34:31,995 --> 00:34:35,310 early twenty twenties, but they're still very strong. I 592 00:34:35,310 --> 00:34:38,270 mean, the idea or the the time when you go buy a good car for 593 00:34:38,270 --> 00:34:42,670 $2 or $2,500 and have it last you a while is that's 594 00:34:42,750 --> 00:34:45,790 increasingly difficult to do. I mean, I think, like, table 595 00:34:45,790 --> 00:34:47,310 stakes now is, $10 and up. 596 00:34:48,115 --> 00:34:51,315 So there's not a there's not a hack to work your way around it. 597 00:34:51,315 --> 00:34:54,195 It's kind of like, unfortunately, if you need a car 598 00:34:54,195 --> 00:34:57,315 to get around and live your life, they kind of have you. So 599 00:34:57,315 --> 00:34:59,875 it's it's gonna be a minute before this starts impacting new 600 00:34:59,875 --> 00:35:01,875 car prices and and affordability, which is, like, 601 00:35:01,875 --> 00:35:04,720 also, know, there are no cars available in The United States. 602 00:35:04,720 --> 00:35:08,320 New cars under $20,000. The average sale price is over 603 00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:09,360 $50,000. 604 00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:13,040 So there's a whole separate affordability conversation to be 605 00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:16,320 had. So, yeah, you're kinda screwed, I guess, is the is my 606 00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:17,360 positive answer to that. 607 00:35:17,785 --> 00:35:22,185 Jeffrey Parkin: Yeah. I I actually kinda have the same 608 00:35:22,185 --> 00:35:27,145 reaction of you're kinda screwed because what started this entire 609 00:35:27,145 --> 00:35:35,150 conversation was in October, I built myself a gaming computer, 610 00:35:35,390 --> 00:35:40,030 like, from scratch just to prove I could that would compete with 611 00:35:40,030 --> 00:35:46,625 a modern console, and I did it for just over $800, and I was 612 00:35:46,625 --> 00:35:50,305 really proud of it. It it works great. This is this is great. I 613 00:35:50,305 --> 00:35:54,385 checked my shopping list just a couple of days ago, and it's 614 00:35:54,385 --> 00:35:57,345 over $1,400. 615 00:35:57,425 --> 00:36:03,260 So it's gone up by 75% in four months. Electronics, consumer 616 00:36:03,260 --> 00:36:07,180 electronics, gaming is all about the latest and greatest, but, 617 00:36:07,500 --> 00:36:11,500 like, I think the answer really is, if you've got something 618 00:36:11,500 --> 00:36:14,795 that's good enough, keep using it. Yeah. You don't need the 619 00:36:14,795 --> 00:36:20,555 latest and greatest, because it's it's going to be a a huge 620 00:36:20,555 --> 00:36:25,915 disconnect through this year and probably well into next year 621 00:36:26,075 --> 00:36:26,235 Rory Carroll: Yeah. 622 00:36:26,315 --> 00:36:30,200 Jeffrey Parkin: Before anything gets sorted out. It's just not 623 00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:34,440 the time to upgrade. Yeah. Which is a larger conversation about 624 00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:38,840 planned obsolescence and the disposability of all our 625 00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:42,280 electronics, but kinda time to hold off on upgrades, I think. 626 00:36:42,695 --> 00:36:44,695 Rory Carroll: Yeah. If you can hang on to your car, keep 627 00:36:44,695 --> 00:36:47,255 driving. I mean, even if this chip thing wasn't happening, 628 00:36:47,255 --> 00:36:49,735 just the interest rate thing is, like, reason enough to just keep 629 00:36:49,735 --> 00:36:52,615 driving whatever piece of shit you're driving. That that's my 630 00:36:52,615 --> 00:36:53,175 advice. 631 00:36:53,255 --> 00:36:56,520 Mike Rugnetta: K. Don't freak out. You're kinda screwed, but 632 00:36:56,520 --> 00:36:58,680 hang on to your piece of shit as long as you can. 633 00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:01,240 Rory Carroll: That's my advice for life is hang on to your 634 00:37:01,240 --> 00:37:02,200 piece of shit. 635 00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:07,640 Mike Rugnetta: Jeffrey, Rory, thank you so much for joining us 636 00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:10,520 to chat about this stuff. This has been fascinating. 637 00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:11,720 Rory Carroll: Glad to be here. Thanks for having me. 638 00:37:11,925 --> 00:37:13,445 Jeffrey Parkin: Yeah. Thanks for having us. 639 00:37:13,445 --> 00:37:15,365 Mike Rugnetta: Jeffrey, where can people find you on the 640 00:37:15,365 --> 00:37:15,845 Internet? 641 00:37:15,845 --> 00:37:20,325 Jeffrey Parkin: I write at rogue.site. Several other 642 00:37:20,325 --> 00:37:25,605 coworkers and I from one of the big name places started it as 643 00:37:25,605 --> 00:37:29,810 our independent site. It's about video games and kind of 644 00:37:29,810 --> 00:37:34,530 everything around it, and it's kinda where I write angry news 645 00:37:34,530 --> 00:37:35,730 pieces lately. 646 00:37:35,730 --> 00:37:37,570 Mike Rugnetta: Hard to write anything else at this 647 00:37:37,570 --> 00:37:38,770 Rory Carroll: point. Yeah. Yes. 648 00:37:39,515 --> 00:37:40,635 Mike Rugnetta: Rory, what about you? 649 00:37:40,715 --> 00:37:44,715 Rory Carroll: Alloymag.com. It's a new car site, new approach. I 650 00:37:44,715 --> 00:37:47,755 think if you go check it out, it's it's unlike anything that's 651 00:37:47,755 --> 00:37:53,035 being done in in cars anywhere else. And then we're on blue sky 652 00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:57,480 at alloy underscore mag. I am personally on blue sky at 653 00:37:57,640 --> 00:37:59,320 rory_carol. 654 00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:02,040 And I think, yeah, that's those are all good places to find me. 655 00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:04,760 If you need to find more than that, then text me or something. 656 00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:05,320 Text me. 657 00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:07,815 Mike Rugnetta: What's wrong with you? What else do you need? And 658 00:38:07,815 --> 00:38:09,735 we'll put links to all those things in the show notes. Thanks 659 00:38:09,735 --> 00:38:11,015 again, fellas. Really appreciate it. 660 00:38:11,015 --> 00:38:11,735 Rory Carroll: Thank you. 661 00:38:11,815 --> 00:38:12,295 Jeffrey Parkin: Thank you. 662 00:38:51,710 --> 00:38:54,110 Mike Rugnetta: That is the show we have for you this week. We 663 00:38:54,110 --> 00:38:57,470 are gonna be back here on the main feed next week on or around 664 00:38:57,470 --> 00:39:04,030 Thursday, March 5. For $4 from craigslist.org in the Brooklyn 665 00:39:04,030 --> 00:39:14,635 area, you can currently purchase. Okay, let's see, a 666 00:39:15,035 --> 00:39:18,635 rapid mac cooker, world's fastest and easiest way to cook 667 00:39:18,635 --> 00:39:23,710 mac and cheese, A glass teapot warmer that you put a candle in 668 00:39:23,710 --> 00:39:26,350 the middle of, it looks like, and you put the teapot on top of 669 00:39:26,350 --> 00:39:27,870 it. This looks dangerous. 670 00:39:28,110 --> 00:39:33,985 A, what is described as an adorable sphere metal box useful 671 00:39:33,985 --> 00:39:38,625 for anything, jewelry, keys, change, candy, etcetera. On the 672 00:39:38,625 --> 00:39:43,105 top of it, it says in French, a little sugar, a vintage Walt 673 00:39:43,105 --> 00:39:47,825 Disney World's Epcot silver coated smoked glass mug stein. 674 00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:51,000 Okay. Listen. I'm not gonna lie. 675 00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:55,240 I'm not like a Disney person, but this thing slaps. It's just 676 00:39:55,240 --> 00:40:01,160 a big silver mug. You can get a savarin tin coffee can, one 677 00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:06,415 pound tin that looks like something that you would find on 678 00:40:06,415 --> 00:40:13,455 the ground in a Fallout game or pink fleece pants with Furby on 679 00:40:13,455 --> 00:40:18,610 them for some reason Or or you could get a month of membership 680 00:40:18,610 --> 00:40:22,770 at neverpo.st and support your local internet news theory and 681 00:40:22,770 --> 00:40:27,410 criticism podcast that is actively working to keep us away 682 00:40:27,490 --> 00:40:32,565 from the future that Fallout depicts. Neverpo.st, become a 683 00:40:32,565 --> 00:40:35,525 member today. And everybody keep your hands off that Epcot Stein. 684 00:40:35,525 --> 00:40:46,360 It's mine. Neverpost's producers are Audrey Evans, Georgia 685 00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:49,320 Hampton, and the mysterious doctor first name last name. Our 686 00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:52,520 senior producer is Hans Buto. Our executive producer is Jason 687 00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:55,800 Oberholzer. Show's host, that's me, is Mike Rugneva. 688 00:40:59,815 --> 00:41:03,975 So we commissioned a document about sustenance in the city's 689 00:41:03,975 --> 00:41:08,695 pores, metaphors of food and skin for when the water rises. 690 00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:14,400 Wired the desirable apartments, caves in units, strange hotels, 691 00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:20,960 possible domesticities before the water rises. Commissioned a 692 00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:24,985 report detailing repose densities for stones from a 693 00:41:24,985 --> 00:41:32,185 point of view superior to where the anger rises. Excerpt of risk 694 00:41:32,185 --> 00:41:36,690 management song by Lindsay Turner. Never Post is a 695 00:41:36,690 --> 00:41:40,130 production of Charts and Leisure, and it's distributed by 696 00:41:40,130 --> 00:41:40,930 Radiotopia.