Mike Rugnetta: Friends, hello, and welcome to Never Post's
state of the podcast 2026. This is an episode for and about
Never Post itself and in which we celebrate our two year
birthday.
Hans Buetow: Hell, yeah. We
Georgia Hampton: did it. Cakes and candles.
Hans Buetow: Kicks and
Mike Rugnetta: candles. Nevertheless, the pod persisted.
Jason Oberholtzer: Now I feel bad.
Georgia Hampton: Oh, man.
Mike Rugnetta: We did one of these last year, and we're gonna
do another one this year in which we're gonna let you know
the chances that we will be around to make a third one next
year.
Georgia Hampton: And what you
Mike Rugnetta: are about to hear is a chat between the principal
producers of the show about how we are doing as a show. We're
gonna talk about how many people listen to Neverpost, how many
members we have, how much money we make, and what we spend that
money on. We're gonna talk about the challenges of making a
podcast. We're gonna talk about what we need to keep doing the
show. We're gonna talk about all the things that we're looking
forward to in our third year, including some changes to the
show's format, which I think secretly all of you that listen
to the show, you're all a bunch of freaks or things that you
want anyways.
So I don't think any of it's gonna be a really big deal.
Before we get too far, we're gonna do introductions. In order
of how large I assumed their cup of coffee was this morning,
descending. So biggest cup first.
Hans Buetow: Single cup. Biggest single cup.
Mike Rugnetta: Single cup. Jason Oberholzer, Never Post executive
producer.
Jason Oberholtzer: It's me, your biggest boy with the biggest
cup. A
Mike Rugnetta: gallon. He's got one of
Jason Oberholtzer: those gallon.
Hans Buetow: The things that truckers have.
Jason Oberholtzer: I have not successfully gotten any coffee
in my hands today. I am the worst for wear because of it.
Georgia Hampton: Oh, no. But
Jason Oberholtzer: you could not be more incorrect.
Mike Rugnetta: Could not be more incorrect.
Jason Oberholtzer: This is the host we're here to trust.
Mike Rugnetta: Yeah. This is also an episode in which I
announce my retirement. Like to apologize to the audience. I've
said some things that I regret.
Georgia Hampton: I'm listening. I'm learning.
Mike Rugnetta: No. I'd like to make it clear. I'm not learning.
I'm just I'm just leaning. Hans Buto, never post senior
producer.
Hans Buetow: This is I'm holding it up. The mug that I drank
coffee out of. So
Mike Rugnetta: 10:12. Ten head. Okay. Georgia Hampton, never
post producer. Not applicable tea.
Georgia Hampton: Oh. You could not be more wrong. You could not
be more wrong. Not only do I drink coffee, I only drink black
coffee.
Mike Rugnetta: Okay.
Georgia Hampton: I'd say a safe, like, eight ounces. But, oh, I
drink coffee.
Mike Rugnetta: Oh, that's right, folks.
Georgia Hampton: Oh, that's yeah. I don't mean to brag.
Jason Oberholtzer: And finally, Mike Rickenetta, host of the
podcast who apparently knows nothing about any of us.
Georgia Hampton: Yes. It's been now We're in the third year.
Mike Rugnetta: Years. I pretty much always drink iced coffee in
the morning, and I think that I probably had about 16 ounces of
iced coffee this morning.
Hans Buetow: I think you're the winner.
Mike Rugnetta: So yeah. And I'm your host, Mike Rugnetta. The
four of us here make up the secret cabal that own and run
the show. We build this pod with our bare hands from shiny
trinkets that we find on the sidewalk. And you may be saying
at this point, hold on.
Georgia Hampton: Wait a second.
Mike Rugnetta: Eagle eared listeners may know this.
Georgia Hampton: Who the hell was that?
Mike Rugnetta: You did one of these last year, and only three
Jason Oberholtzer: of you were here.
Mike Rugnetta: And now there's four of you.
Jason Oberholtzer: And we hate change.
Hans Buetow: So prepare for an episode full of change. Yes.
Mike Rugnetta: Everybody strap in. Get get your favorite stuffy
and Yeah. Hunk it down under that blanket.
Hans Buetow: Get your own mug.
Mike Rugnetta: The big update that we have to share right up
top is that Producer Georgia has been made a full partner of the
show. So welcome, Producer Georgia.
Hans Buetow: Woo hoo.
Georgia Hampton: Speech. Speech. Speech. The haters tried to
sabotage me.
Jason Oberholtzer: They did.
Georgia Hampton: They said a girl like me could never be a
partner of a podcast.
Jason Oberholtzer: Name them.
Georgia Hampton: I unveil a long scroll. And now I'm in. And I'm
changing all the passwords.
Mike Rugnetta: Actually, what what Georgia says is is
relatively true. There is an amount of truth to that. Some of
you may wonder, wait. Wasn't Georgia already a partner? What
is the difference between then and now and so on and so forth?
To which our most humble reply is, this upload is already going
to be boring enough. Yeah. The most honest answer that we can
give is that this means Georgia will be able to log in to
slightly more That's so true.
Georgia Hampton: As a little girl, I was dreaming of logging
in to more websites.
Mike Rugnetta: Of pushing the transcribe button Yes. And then
waiting a few seconds.
Hans Buetow: Alright. That's enough celebrating. Happy
birthday to us. Let's be jolly. We made another year.
We made in this year. Let's appreciate ourselves for a
moment. It's just the four of us. Jason's gonna have the
hardest time with this. Let's let's account for what we did
this past year.
In 2025, we made forty one and a half hours of livestream
content. Wow. We published 27 newsletters. We published 26
full episodes. We published nine sideshow episodes of three
different shows, eight bonus and mailbag episodes, three
collaborations with other shows, two T shirts, one distribution
deal with Radiotopia, and zero, count them, zero social media
posts.
Yeah.
Mike Rugnetta: There are I go and I check the never post blue
sky every once in
Georgia Hampton: a while. Once in a while. And our most recent
reply is from someone being like, I love that you've
committed to this bit, and you
Mike Rugnetta: haven't posted it. You haven't posted anything
since before the show technically existed.
Georgia Hampton: And that's real dedication. Yeah. It's in the
name. It's in
Hans Buetow: the name. So how does it feel, everybody? How
let's talk our feelings about this. How does that you know,
like, broad sense, how do you feel about what we did in 2025?
Mike Rugnetta: Good. I mean, the show is an incredible amount of
work. So like, I look at '26 episodes and I'm like, really?
Only 26? And then I'm like, if I made if I made more than that, I
would have died.
Jason Oberholtzer: Yes. Yeah. When you really string it out, I
guess we made a lot of things.
Georgia Hampton: Did we do
Hans Buetow: we do folks feel like we were able to tell the
kinds of stories that we wanted to and cover this type of stuff
that we were looking to and that we had goals to do?
Mike Rugnetta: Can I give like the my most earnest answer to
this?
Georgia Hampton: We're talking about our feelings, Mike.
Jason Oberholtzer: Yeah. Yeah.
Mike Rugnetta: No. But, like, that's okay. Yeah. You know,
like, I think I I just I feel like I can imagine all of the
things that I wanted to do, and I got to maybe a small
percentage of them. Yeah.
Yeah. I can imagine, like, you know, even things that we did
release, like, what more we could have done with some of
those things and what what else sort of like we had to leave on
the table just because of how much time we have to make the
show, the resources that we have. And, like, the stuff that
we put out is great, but I just can't not also think about,
like,
Georgia Hampton: oh, if only we could've if only we could've
Yeah.
Mike Rugnetta: Which is just like the nature of making
something, but it's it's good because it's motivating. Right?
Georgia Hampton: Totally.
Mike Rugnetta: Like, we know I know we can do it. You just take
that lesson forward to the next thing and hopefully hit all of
those marks for future stuff.
Hans Buetow: Yeah.
Georgia Hampton: Yeah. I totally agree.
Hans Buetow: But did we have fun?
Mike Rugnetta: Oh, god. Yeah. Absolutely.
Hans Buetow: Yeah. Unquestionable. Yes.
Georgia Hampton: I would never allow us.
Mike Rugnetta: Georgia's putting on the clown makeup. Oh, she's
putting on the clown makeup right now.
Georgia Hampton: Clown makeup has been on.
Jason Oberholtzer: This is fun. I
Georgia Hampton: love fun as we all know. We had fun.
Jason Oberholtzer: There are segments in the pile for each of
us that have been on the pile for the entire year that I wish
we had been able to do that we still will do at some point, but
that is also the nature of it. Like prioritization becomes such
a task. There are so many good things that I know how they're
going to be made when they are able to be made, and I look
forward to them.
Hans Buetow: I had a lot of fun making content and making
stories and hanging out with you as a crew. I think the thing
that was the biggest addition this year was developing and
getting closer to the audience. I felt so good getting to do our
streams, getting to know the chat a little bit more, getting
to field more questions in mailbags. It's one of the
reasons that I was excited to do this show is to be a little bit
closer to you all, and that feels like it's happening more
and more, and that to me is a lot of fun. So that's been
really gratifying, and I
Georgia Hampton: hope to do more of that.
Mike Rugnetta: This raises a a question that we did not discuss
before beforehand. So I'm sorry if this is ambushing everybody.
Do we think we're gonna do another survey?
Hans Buetow: Let's do a survey of the audience. Do you want us
to know more about you and do a survey?
Georgia Hampton: Do you do
Mike Rugnetta: you want us to want to know more about you?
Fill out fill out this survey to determine if we'll do a survey.
Georgia Hampton: It'll be in the newsletter. Don't worry about
it.
Hans Buetow: Well, I think it's a good teaser forward, Mike, to
what we're gonna announce because there are some changes
coming that we're gonna talk about later in the in the
episode, and I think I would like some feedback. I would like
to know more about what people think of them. And, yeah, I
think it's appropriate for us maybe sometime this year to do
another survey to get feedback from folks in a more specific
way. Yeah. So one of our goals in 2025 was definitely to do
more of the show, as we call it, on purpose.
Doing the show on purpose. It's a thing we talked about at this
episode last year was how we sometimes were successful at
doing it on purpose, but not as often as we think we should be
or want to be. And so my question for you is, you three,
is did we do the show more on purpose in 2025, which was our
goal?
Mike Rugnetta: Yes. I think so. Indeed. I think that we could
still do it even more on purpose. Mhmm.
But I think we did a better job this year than we did last year.
Yeah. Yeah. So just for the audience, like, let's talk a
little bit about maybe what that feels like. Like, when we're not
doing the show on purpose, what that means is that we're, like,
just trying to get things in as quickly as possible so that
they're in so that we can publish a show.
And that's not to say that those things don't have we don't have
standards for those things or that we don't want them to be
good. It just means that we get to be slightly less intentional
about those things because we don't have the time or
resources. And doing the show on purpose means, like, we are able
to work with intention, and we are able to put something out
and be like, this might not have everything we wanted in it, but
it's got everything in it that we knew we could fit in the time
frame we had to work on it. Yeah. And so when it's when it's
when you were when we're not working on purpose, things go
out and we may really like those things, but we might like them
kind of like in spite of how they came together.
Mhmm. Or we might sort of be relying on luck a little bit
more than we would like to.
Georgia Hampton: Big time.
Mike Rugnetta: Yeah. And so the idea is that we are we are
always, even when we are strapped for time or resources,
trying to work with as much intention as we can.
Georgia Hampton: And I think we did a good job of that this
year. I think there's always room for improvement, but I
definitely think it was an improvement.
Hans Buetow: Yeah.
Mike Rugnetta: Yeah. I do honestly think a part of that is
that the show was put into an existential crisis because of
the loss of our client work, but the loss of our client work does
allow us to work with more intention because we are not
saddled with tons of client work.
Jason Oberholtzer: Mhmm. I
Hans Buetow: think that's a really good transition for us,
Mike, because let's talk a little bit about the details of
what all this means. Feelings are great, but what's the what's
the brass tacks here? So let's talk those dirty details and
what those details mean for the future of the show. And spoiler
on this, There's changes that come in.
Georgia Hampton: Mhmm. But first, there's ads that come in.
Jason Oberholtzer: Welcome back. Thank you for participating in
the very numbers I'm about to talk about. We don't
Mike Rugnetta: wanna say that our audience is nothing but a
number to us, but you are definitely at least part, in
part, a number We, to
Jason Oberholtzer: by the numbers, I think had a good year
last year, and I can prove it because that's what you use
numbers to do. First off, how many people listen to this show?
Great question. We believe that we had 226,000 total listens
last year. Now why do I say we believe?
Because this is podcast metrics and literally anything is
possible. You have to know this about podcasting. Every number
is a lie. Yep. And yet, this is the number we're going with.
Hans Buetow: There's also the added caveat this year that
because we switched to Radiotopia in March, we had to
switch platforms that we publish on, which means our numbers
metrics change because everybody measures just slightly
differently, and we're not sure, like, during that period of
transition, how many are duplicated or not duplicated. So
we did some really what we think is the best math to get this,
but, you know, it's it's always a question mark for us. We take
it roughly. Know that this is about 226,000 listens in 2025.
Jason Oberholtzer: So how does 226,000 listeners stack up to
our first year, 2,024? Well, that is 9,000 more listeners
than the preceding year.
Mike Rugnetta: So like nine nine thousand more individual
downloads.
Jason Oberholtzer: Yes. Yes. And I think that that number is a
lot better than it initially looks and I will tell you why
later.
Georgia Hampton: Okay. Alright. Yeah.
Mike Rugnetta: So tell me why.
Jason Oberholtzer: But for now, know that we had more listens
this year. We grew a little bit.
Mike Rugnetta: Yeah. I wanna have grown more but I'm excited
to hear why I should shut my mouth. Yeah.
Jason Oberholtzer: Shut your mouth and get me that coffee.
One other thing that people who listened to this state of the
podcast last year might recall is that we have an incredibly
large amount of international listeners. And this year, that
only became more true. 35% of the IP addresses we can track as
listeners are international, which is 5% more than last year.
Mike Rugnetta: Yeah. That's okay,
Jason Oberholtzer: that seems crazy.
Georgia Hampton: Right? Been wild to me.
Jason Oberholtzer: I love this especially because one of our
initial concerns going into this is that we'd not be too American
centric when we talk about the Internet and try to acknowledge
that it is a global service. And I think this hopefully points to
some success in that regard.
Hans Buetow: Yeah. And we have some cool episodes coming up
that are from international spaces talking about the
Internet in a couple of different places that are really
exciting. So Yeah. You know, we hope that this makes everybody,
that 35% of you who are not in The United States, feel very
included. I mean, apparently you are because you're listening,
and we really appreciate that.
It's very exciting.
Jason Oberholtzer: We really do. Hans, do you have the list of
countries that listen to us the most handy?
Mike Rugnetta: One imagines it's the it's the top four, like,
English speaking. So it's gonna be Us, Canada, The UK, and
Australia followed, I would guess, maybe a Brazil or a
Germany.
Hans Buetow: You're you're very, very close. But there's a couple
of those that are out of order. So, of course, United States is
first by 65%.
Mike Rugnetta: Yeah. Fair margin. Yeah.
Hans Buetow: Yes. Then Canada, yes, our dear neighbors to the
north. United Kingdom, nailed it, then Germany. That's right.
Mike Rugnetta: So that was the thing that we discussed most
recently.
Hans Buetow: Yep. More Germans by almost double from
Australians who were the next one after that.
Jason Oberholtzer: Who are
Hans Buetow: then double again from The Netherlands. And you
know who beat Brazil?
Jason Oberholtzer: Xi Jinping.
Hans Buetow: Jinping specifically. Just himself
listened to our
Jason Oberholtzer: show Okay.
Georgia Hampton: Thousands and thousands of times. Huge fan.
No.
Hans Buetow: Jason's favorite fan country. What? Wait. France.
Jason Oberholtzer: No way.
Mike Rugnetta: Beat Brazil? Beat Brazil.
Jason Oberholtzer: I've been wrong this whole time, France.
Soccer blue. My favorite country in the world, France. You did
it. You're back.
I just had to give you a little bit of tough love for the whole
calendar year because last year you weren't listening and this
is what this is what they like. They like a little bit of the
harshness.
Georgia Hampton: Through reverse psychology, by next year, we
will be the number one podcast in France.
Jason Oberholtzer: Yes. That's right. Should double down.
Words. France, I'm still disappointed.
Well, that's all very exciting. Now let's break this number down
a little bit more. So by our best estimates, what our
listenership number means is that per episode, we get about
four to 8,000 listeners on any given normal drop, averaging out
to, like, 6,600 listeners per episode, which is a bit more
than we were averaging out to last year, certainly.
Mike Rugnetta: I would say that the if my memory serves, the
increase in that number seems to outpace the overall total
listens, which seems strange.
Hans Buetow: Yeah. I think we did more bonus episodes this
year.
Jason Oberholtzer: Oh. Yeah. Okay. And this is still not why
I think that that 9,000 listener gain we got over last year is a
better number than you think it is. Okay.
And I still refuse to tell you. Okay.
Georgia Hampton: Exciting. Exciting.
Mike Rugnetta: Next up. Suspense is increasing.
Jason Oberholtzer: Our biggest episodes for the year. In March,
we released an episode called the hardest thing to do is
nothing, which was our biggest downloaded episode because that
is the first one we released after announcing that we were
partnering with Radiotopia.
Mike Rugnetta: Hardest thing to do is nothing was an episode
where Georgia did the no buy challenge.
Georgia Hampton: I sure did.
Mike Rugnetta: And I talked to Mike Masnik about section two
thirty.
Hans Buetow: Yeah. Which is a very always worth returning to.
Jason Oberholtzer: Yeah. Our second most listened to episode
was Any Rigid Idea About Yourself Is A Prison featuring
friend of the show, host of the unraveling podcast from the
Brattleboro Retreat, Kurt White.
Mike Rugnetta: And we had a segment from a contributing
producer that episode as well, Young Naparc, about why LinkedIn
is that way. Yeah. So yeah. Sorry. Listen, we're trying to
turn it off.
We're trying to turn it off.
Jason Oberholtzer: Our most recent episode to have done
bigger numbers than usually expected is AI and new American
fascism. Mhmm. So those are sort of the bigger numbers about how
our audience has grown over the last year. I feel pretty great
about all of this, honestly. Here are some of the reasons
that I feel extra good about last year.
The growth in our membership, the people directly supporting
us both as free members who are getting our newsletters and
staying abreast of all the things we do and as paid members
who are the reason we can make a show at all, those numbers have
gone up a lot this year. We have an increase of a 135% year over
year in membership and we now have 889 members.
Hans Buetow: Yeah. Unbelievable. Oh my goodness.
Jason Oberholtzer: Now if you think about this, like, big
number that we started with, like, four to 8,000 listeners
per episode about, and do the math on what percentage of that
889 people is, it's a big.
Mike Rugnetta: It's big. Yeah.
Jason Oberholtzer: Yeah. Yeah. In fact, it is so big that we
have been told we are over indexing on loyalty, which is a
cool business way to say that you guys fucking rule. Yeah.
Mike Rugnetta: We're in meetings where people are like, people
really like your show?
Jason Oberholtzer: And to that end, our membership increased by
a 135, but our paying members increased by 303%.
Georgia Hampton: Yeah. They
Hans Buetow: have 613
Jason Oberholtzer: paying members. Thank you. Incredible.
Hans Buetow: Thank you.
Mike Rugnetta: Literally, the the reason the show exists.
Yeah.
Georgia Hampton: It's true.
Jason Oberholtzer: Yeah. So what did that all amount to
financially? This is where take out your calculators here. This
is where we get down to hard maths. Last year, we made
$40,000 from members.
To be exact, $40,111.52 from our members. In addition, we made
almost $4,000 from making t shirts. Yay. And let me tell
you, this is just gross revenue. So when I say we made that much
money on t shirts, we made $0 on t Yeah.
Mike Rugnetta: If we also, like,
Georgia Hampton: if we include Jason's time in fulfillment, I
think we probably lost money. Yeah. Yeah.
Jason Oberholtzer: Well as paying two designers to make the
t shirts, paying an amazing printer to print them out.
Hans Buetow: We look so good.
Jason Oberholtzer: Yeah. Yeah.
Mike Rugnetta: So I mean, they are the best. They are some of
the best shirts that I own. They're so Yeah.
Jason Oberholtzer: They're amazing. And it's worth it. It's
it was fun as hell and now we get to wear these t shirts. So
are we gonna do more t shirts in the future even though they
amounts to $0 at the end?
Georgia Hampton: Absolutely. Yeah. Definitely. For sure.
Mike Rugnetta: Can I just sidebar that my mom bought the
punk design and she, like, wears it out when she goes to, like,
her pottery studio?
Georgia Hampton: Yes.
Hans Buetow: I love it.
Georgia Hampton: Does your mom need a shirt for the pottery
studio? Come to never post.
Jason Oberholtzer: And one last note on the t shirts.
International t shirt desirers, they're on their way. We had to
figure it out.
Mike Rugnetta: I think yeah. We basically just don't want them
to show up and then to also have them show up with someone
requesting lots of money from you.
Jason Oberholtzer: Yes. So are on their way. I promise. And
then the final piece of the pie here, $7,500 in ad revenue. So
altogether, that means that we made for this year, gross
revenue, $51,594.79.
Oh.
Mike Rugnetta: That's pretty good. That's not nothing.
Hans Buetow: That's not nothing. It's a big improvement. Big
improvement on 2024.
Jason Oberholtzer: Right. It is a big improvement over 2024
because in 2024, the only money we made was from our dear
founding members who showed up for the first year for us. And
across the whole membership base, made $14,000 and some
change there. So we have added
Mike Rugnetta: Go ahead and just do that in your head right now.
Jason Oberholtzer: 37 ish thousand dollars.
Mike Rugnetta: Thought we're gonna have to turn you off and
on again.
Georgia Hampton: Hans, you're gonna cut the, like, twenty
minutes that that took for Jason to do the math. Right?
Mike Rugnetta: Yeah. Yeah.
Hans Buetow: Yeah. I'll I'll drastically re breathe the
entire time.
Georgia Hampton: It was really intense. He was crying. It was
pretty rough. Wow.
Jason Oberholtzer: We're all doing our best. So where did
that money go to? That money went to contributing producers
like it always does. We had some great contributing producers
this year. Tori Dominguez Peak, of course, delivering more
amazing segments.
Yagna Park in the aforementioned, why is LinkedIn
like that segment? Melissa Locker who talked about Oasis
fan clubs with us and friend of the show, Meagal Jenardin
talking about her own struggles with attention. So we had
brilliant contributor pieces, we made t shirts,
Georgia Hampton: and
Jason Oberholtzer: we maintained all of the softwares as a
service that we know and love so much. All of our hosting and
production tools, everything we have to subscribe to.
Hans Buetow: We need to make sure we have lots of logins for
Georgia.
Mike Rugnetta: Yes. It's
Georgia Hampton: true. I need to be able to log in.
Jason Oberholtzer: And then finally what we did is we
basically refilled the coffers off of the ad dollars we had
spent in 2024.
Mike Rugnetta: Yeah. That's what I was gonna ask, Jason. My
impression is that also a fair amount of this went towards
recouping charts and leisure's costs over the first year, which
were, let's say, not insignificant.
Hans Buetow: Yeah.
Jason Oberholtzer: So the first year, we spent, I think, around
$20,000 on ads. And we spent probably as much on PR and other
functions to launch the show. Now think about this. This is
where I reveal the prestige. Oh.
If in 2024, we spent, let's call it $40,000 of marketing budget
to get 217,000 listens. And in 2025, we spent $0 to get 226,000
listens. Does that 9,000 listener increase feel like a
$40,000 worth of investment increase?
Mike Rugnetta: The prestige.
Georgia Hampton: I see what you're saying.
Jason Oberholtzer: This is really good because this is the
year we did not market. We established a relationship with
Radiotopia.
Georgia Hampton: They have
Jason Oberholtzer: helped us immeasurably on this. We have
engaged our own listeners and fans and supporters to help us
get the word out. We have sent out newsletters. We have
collaborated with other programs, but we have not spent
any of this money in direct marketing like we did last year
on Pocket Cast and Overcast and all the other casts that you
could do this on, and yet we have more listeners than last
year. Entirely owned by the things we made, not the money we
sent out.
So I think that is actually incredible.
Mike Rugnetta: That's organic growth as you call it in the
business. Yeah. Mhmm.
Jason Oberholtzer: And that's like a huge part of the runway
of this show is can it persist organically without that
marketing budget engine pushing on it? And this was the year we
wanted to find out, and this is the year I believe we found out
that, yes, that this is where we are.
Hans Buetow: So Jason, to summarize, 300% growth in
members
Jason Oberholtzer: Yes.
Hans Buetow: Two big membership drives, distribution deal. We
didn't spend money on the things on the marketing. We, you know,
brought in more gross, all that sort of stuff. Did we do it? Did
we hit our big goal?
Our financial goals that we had set for 2025, which is to become
self sustaining.
Jason Oberholtzer: Everyone all at once. One, two, three. No.
Mike Rugnetta: I I will be the outside voice. But hold on. You
we made $50,000.
Hans Buetow: Fantastic.
Jason Oberholtzer: Yeah. Another way to think about this is I
think we have organically grown to a size that is a fairly
standard hobby podcast size for a person or two. And for if you
were making a podcast as a person or two and you got to
this size, in two years, you would be thrilled and you would
probably be able to devote around half of your time to this
and feel sufficiently remunerated for that time. But
our aspiration is to be something larger and to be that
we need to be the size of team that we are. And we need to use
the budget that we have to have contributors come in and work
with other producers and maintain the relationships that
we have.
And so there's more we need to do with this. Yeah. And so we
need to figure out ways that our listener base can also grow
alongside us and support the rest of the growth that we need
to do. And yet, I think we should acknowledge this is like
a pretty incredible achievement for a show no matter how many
people go into the making of it, that we have achieved a sense of
stability at a reasonable size for a audio program in a couple
of the weirdest years to be an independent audio program Yeah.
There have ever been.
Mike Rugnetta: So I think the upshot in a lot of this is that
while the show is growing and we're feeling good about its
growth, we're still not making something that, like, barring
various circumstances, we'll definitely continue to be around
for, you know, the next two to five years. Like, we are
constantly I mean, we have these meetings. Like, we've had them
as recently as a couple weeks ago where it's like, are we
going to keep making the show? And we all continually agree,
like, yes. It's hard, but we will continue to make the show.
And so, you know, in looking forward to the next year, we're
looking at 2026 to 2027. Like, what do we need? And, like, in
one sense, the answer is really simple. We just need more money,
more supporters, more members, more listeners, like, more of
everything. And, like, if we don't get those things, like,
does the show still exist?
And that's just as much a question now as it has been for
all of the show's existence. There's nothing in our rate of
growth or our circumstances at the moment that let us say,
like, yeah, we're definitely like, we're crushing it. We're
not going anywhere. This is easy to do. And, like, we are
definitely gonna be able to keep doing it indefinitely.
You know? I think in a lot of ways, that puts us in a similar
boat to probably a lot of things online that you like and listen
to and watch and enjoy. It's a time that's really, especially
in media, defined by precarity.
Jason Oberholtzer: Yeah. Mhmm. Yeah. It is wild how net how
many of the imprimatures of success we have walked through
and then the the material returns on them.
Mike Rugnetta: I have friends I have friends who are like, oh my
god. How's the show going? It seems like it's doing really
well. And and I get to be like, well, we've won a bunch of
awards.
Hans Buetow: We have a good time.
Jason Oberholtzer: Yeah. Which,
Mike Rugnetta: like, I don't wanna seem ingrateful
Hans Buetow: Yeah.
Mike Rugnetta: For the awards. I love the awards. Love the
recognition.
Jason Oberholtzer: Yeah. Yeah. This is the environment right
now where, like, you can win a lot of awards. You can have a
wonderful dedicated audience. You can make a show that you
love and that people respond to, and it is still not enough.
Georgia Hampton: And A Webby doesn't pay your rent.
Mike Rugnetta: As a matter of fact, a Webby costs you money.
Yeah.
Georgia Hampton: It actually super does.
Jason Oberholtzer: Yeah. And so we we should, and I am grateful
for all of the the luck and the good breaks and everything else
that we have had so far. And, like, if anything at Omi
furthers my sense of, like, solidarity and despair at how
difficult it is to be making anything right now for
everybody. For real. Yeah.
If we had done all of these things ten years ago, we would
not be worried. And I'm sorry everyone's worried out there,
but I am too. So
Mike Rugnetta: speaking of, like, the people who listen to
their show and their habits and what they're interested in, you
two, Jason and Hans, were in a really interesting meeting with
the, like, audience and analytics people at Radiotopia
where they talked they, like, really did some divining of the
analytics and the numbers and said some really interesting
things. So I would like can you guys share some of that with the
audience?
Georgia Hampton: Yeah. They
Hans Buetow: with our need to grow, helped us understand that
we are not really growing at a rate that we're talking about.
And they said, like Jason said earlier, we over index on loyal.
So we have super duper consistent numbers. You freaks
love to download an episode when it comes out.
Mike Rugnetta: And we download downloads. Oh, they would love
to download those shit
Hans Buetow: goes for downloading.
Georgia Hampton: The show
Hans Buetow: is called never post, not never download.
Georgia Hampton: Always download. And we love you for
like, it
Hans Buetow: is it's the reason that we can have the membership
numbers that we do is because there's no No. Guild team in
Georgia Hampton: It's the best.
Hans Buetow: But we need that, plus we need a bunch of other
stuff that they told us we don't have. One of the things that
they said that we don't really get, which really, really
surprised them was any meaningful back catalog
listening. Mhmm. Which means no one is going back and listening
to stuff we have already done. They're really just consuming
the the right now of things, the most recent episodes, despite us
doing mostly evergreen content that could be consumed kind of
at any time.
People are not going back to it.
Mike Rugnetta: My impression after you guys left that meeting
and you described it to us was that as weird as it is, the the
degree to which it is weird that people will seemingly the bulk
of our audience will download every episode when it's dropped.
It is weird how little movement there is in older episodes once
they've dropped.
Hans Buetow: Yeah.
Jason Oberholtzer: I have a theory about this behavior that
I've been calling the New Yorker theory of content consumption.
Georgia Hampton: TM. TM.
Jason Oberholtzer: Picture this. A fresh New Yorker comes in the
mail. Oh, boy.
Georgia Hampton: Could you squeal with glee?
Jason Oberholtzer: I'm gonna open that bad boy up, and I sure
do. And I sit down at my couch, and I open up my coffee table,
and I start reading to that New Yorker.
Georgia Hampton: Open up coffee table.
Hans Buetow: Jason. This
Jason Oberholtzer: is why you
Georgia Hampton: have trouble.
Jason Oberholtzer: Where I keep my readers, and I take my
reading glasses out of the coffee table, put them on my
face, and then I open up New Yorker the magazine. And I start
reading and boy, I'm having a good time. And then I get up
there, oh, the first big story is about to start. I get a
couple pages in and then, oh, someone's calling me on my
phone. I gotta talk to somebody.
It's Mike and he wants to talk about esoteric noise music.
Well, there it goes the day. And the New Yorker sits there on my
coffee table, which I haven't even shut.
Hans Buetow: You've got the best of intentions, you wanna return.
Jason Oberholtzer: I want you so badly. But then it's almost
dinner time, I gotta make dinner. So next thing I
Georgia Hampton: know I'm calling again to talk
Mike Rugnetta: about s
Georgia Hampton: It's always something. The music is only
getting noisier and less diatonic. More esoteric. S
Chasing missed call list is just me. It's just Mike every day.
Jason Oberholtzer: Next thing you know, a whole dang week has
passed, and I'm finally getting ready to sit down and finish
that beautiful New Yorker article and what's this? A knock
at the door? It's my mailman. He says, Jason, great news. And I
say, yes, Paul.
And he said, you're new New Yorker. The magazine is here.
And I said, goddamn it. I'm so excited. And I rested out of his
grubby little hands and slammed the door on him.
And I go back to my coffee table, which I have to reopen.
Put my readers on, and start digging into my new New Yorker
sitting right on top of the old one, which I never even had the
time to finish.
Hans Buetow: So that was the analogy that Jason came up with
in this meeting, which I think is actually pretty apt, but it
was a really eye opening meeting for us. They put a thank you,
Radiotopia, for putting that much work into really helping us
understand the numbers that are happening. But it got it start
it kicked off this months long conversation for us about we
need to grow the show. We need more folks. We need more money.
We're having these specific behaviors. How can we add to
those specific behaviors with the growth that we need?
Mike Rugnetta: And actually, I don't know that we mentioned it,
but this is a very important part of the puzzle. Audience, we
love you. Yeah. We really, really love you. We love that
you listen to every episode.
We love that you write in, that you call us. You send us emails.
You send us voicemails. Not a one of you is finishing an
episode.
Hans Buetow: Did you how
Mike Rugnetta: many of you know that there's a poem at the end
of every episode?
Georgia Hampton: And there yeah. There has been every time.
Mike Rugnetta: So and we say that that is not again, like,
that's not a judgment. That's a note for us. Yep. Right? And I'd
say this sort of half joking, like, yes, there are a bunch of
you that actually do listen to a 100% of every episode.
But percentage wise, of the number of people who start an
episode, who download it, which is huge, the number of people
who are listening through to the end of, let's say, the second
segment, if we do a set if we do two segments, is relatively low.
And so that's a problem that we need to solve. That is a problem
with, as far as we see it, the design of the format of the
show.
Hans Buetow: So we made some decisions.
Georgia Hampton: Mhmm.
Hans Buetow: We are gonna change things.
Jason Oberholtzer: We're buying the New Yorker.
Georgia Hampton: Is that New Yorker the magazine, Jason?
Jason Oberholtzer: I just need 40,000 more dollars, and I think
they're gonna say yes.
Georgia Hampton: How much could New Yorker cost the entire
company? So when we come back,
Hans Buetow: let's talk about it. Our plan for 2026, the stuff
that you can expect to shift, the stuff you can expect to stay
the same, and how it all relates.
Mike Rugnetta: Alright. We're back. So I think the headline
here is that I think we're just gonna be doing more of what the
show already has been doing over the last couple months. More.
More.
More. The Like, we're not we're not actually going to change too
much. We are just going to acknowledge in a more official
capacity what it seems like has been working over the last
quarter of a year. And that means essentially uploading more
things that are just a segment and sometimes even just a
segment with no news. And so we're just gonna do more of that
because based upon our analytics and based upon the feedback that
we've been getting, it feels like that's what people want.
People get excited when there's a new Neverpost upload that
shows up in their feed. They we we get, like, all kinds of
emails and notes from people being like, I love the show. If
a new Neverpost shows up, I will stop a podcast that I'm
currently listening to in order to listen to it, which is just
like I mean, that's a massive compliment. And so we just are
gonna increase the frequency with which that's done. That
means overall that uploads will be shorter, but there's gonna be
more of them.
Does that mean news is going away? No. News I mean, we'll
see. We're gonna be testing this out over the next couple months
to see, like, what works, but the plan right now is that there
will be one news episode per month at least, possibly two,
and that between those, you're gonna get other uploads that are
just classic segments.
Hans Buetow: And I think this is gonna be really good for folks
because it addresses another problem that we had, which we
actually demonstrated earlier in this episode. When Jason was
listing off the most popular episodes of the year, all four
of us had to go to the feed to figure out what was on each of
those episodes because we can't even remember what we've
published in any individual episode, which means the
discoverability is not high. We think this is gonna make it much
easier for you to find, share, and remember where your favorite
episodes are so that you can get back to them more easily, and
they become more useful in the back catalog. But but Hans
Mike Rugnetta: Yes. Yes, Mike. That's only true for episodes
going forward. Right? What about what about episodes from the
back catalog that our audience may have missed?
What a good question.
Jason Oberholtzer: Wait a second. What's that? Is there a
knock at my door? Let me go get it.
Georgia Hampton: Paul's gotta
Jason Oberholtzer: go. Paul's demanding to know what you're
gonna say next.
Hans Buetow: Boy, Jason, if only we had an answer to that
question. What do think?
Georgia Hampton: Paul, calm down. I'm I'm I'm getting right
to it. He's waving the gun around.
Jason Oberholtzer: Baby, please listen to me, Paul. So what
we're gonna do, Paul, calm down, is we are going to release old
segments from the past two years that have heretofore lived in
the middle of a full never post episode behind a bunch of
minutes of news between interstitials next to another
segment, between that poem no one bothers to stick around and
listen to. Paul, calm down. We're gonna bring them back in a
timely fashion as they make sense to the events of the day
and as they feel good to bring back. But we're gonna bring them
back on their own, so they are discoverable and shareable and
you can actually instead of saying like, oh, yeah.
I heard that in this great Never Post episode a couple months
ago, that is some oblique title, and I'm not sure exactly where
it is in that. You can just say, oh, yeah. It's about this, and
it's called this, and
Hans Buetow: Here's a link.
Mike Rugnetta: A link.
Georgia Hampton: Yep.
Mike Rugnetta: Right. There is no reason for any of you to
remember that Yungna Park's segment about Yep. LinkedIn is
in the episode that is titled Any Rigid Idea About Yourself Is
A Prison. Yep. Titled so for Kurt's segment.
Yep. I and since we've been thinking about making this
change, I've talked to a number of friends who make podcasts
that are in segments. Like, there's a sort of thing that
they do, and they do multiple of that thing per show. And I'm
like, how do you solve the titling and the metadata problem
of, like, you know, you've got something buried in the middle
of an episode. You can only do one title.
How do you make it clear to people who are looking for it
later where it is? And every single one of them was like, I
don't we don't know. We have no we have
Georgia Hampton: no clue. Yeah.
Mike Rugnetta: So it turns out it turns out the right answer is
maybe the simplest answer, which is everything should just be
uploaded by itself. Yeah. Yeah. However so we all really love
the Neverpost format of, like, the magazine show. Mhmm.
You've got the intro, the news, a segment, the interstitials,
like, this sort of, like, packaged up thing.
Hans Buetow: And clearly, the people who listen also love it.
Also love So,
Mike Rugnetta: Jason, is that going to go away completely?
Jason Oberholtzer: No. It is not gonna go away completely. Here's
another thing we learned from the analytics. You love the
news. You get falloffs every time we transition to a new
segment because that's just natural listening behavior.
We give you an opportunity
Georgia Hampton: to put your phone down and take
Jason Oberholtzer: a break and you do. But everyone likes the
news. Everyone listens to it and you download and listen to the
show within moments of it coming out. So there's something about
the timeliness and the newsiness of it is helpful. And we wanna
preserve that and still give you news episodes, not just
disembodied segments all the time.
And those are the moments where I think we are going to push
into exploring more of the classic Never format and some so
if you think about, like, an episode coming out at the end of
a month that's going to dive into what has happened to that
month, I think that's largely going to feel like Neverpost has
always felt. We are going to try to stretch and explore and
figure out the most interesting way to provide something that is
newsy and relevant and encapsulates the feeling of what
a month has felt like for all of us, and it's going to give you
all of the magazine feel that we also love about this format and
we don't want to give up just because we're releasing segments
on their own so you can also find them. We're gonna try to
have our cake and eat it too. Oh, Paul is losing his mind.
He's so happy about this.
Paul, stop crying. I know, buddy. We had a plan the whole
time.
Georgia Hampton: So some
Mike Rugnetta: of that original never post flavor will persist.
And I think that this is, like I think if you think about what
we've been doing over the last few months, like Hans's
Minneapolis episode, Meigle's attention episode, which, like,
really was just like a double wide single Yeah. Exploring a
single thought. Yeah. Like, we've been uploading more things
that are just themselves.
Jason Oberholtzer: Mhmm.
Mike Rugnetta: Uploads have a single identity as opposed to
being this kind of multivalent, multipart thing where where a
theme might be oblique or not clear or even nonexistent. And
the response has been either positive or nonexistent, which
is another way to say positive. Right? Like, when you change
something and no one in the audience is like, wait. What the
fuck are you doing?
Stop it. That's good. Right? That means that it seems like a
natural evolution of the show. So think we're just gonna lean
into what we've been doing so far.
Just try to do it as we talked about earlier, more on purpose.
Jason Oberholtzer: Yeah. And I think another thing that's going
to help with intentionality there is that in conversations,
we're starting to treat the whole feed as if the whole feed
were the magazine rather than every episode being the magazine
we're releasing. Yep. In some ways, like, the flexibility of
any given release in the format that we've created for this is,
like, really freeing and allows us to do everything, but it's
also constricting and that you need to pack all of your ideas
into the same container every time we release. And the further
we're stretching through that, the more I'm starting to see,
like, a lot of open space in how we can fill the feed in new and
surprising ways
Mike Rugnetta: Yep.
Jason Oberholtzer: And continue to make the feed feel more like
every single episode drop. And that's getting me really excited
to figure out how to program next year.
Hans Buetow: Yeah. Surprise episodes, strangely sized
episodes, oddly comprised episodes. Just prepare. It's
gonna we're gonna have a fun time this year.
Mike Rugnetta: And speaking of which, Georgia, do you wanna
talk to us a little bit about streaming?
Georgia Hampton: Why, yes. So we did do, as we previously said,
over what was it? Forty hours Yeah. Of livestreaming.
Mike Rugnetta: Which I think if if memory serves, we are gonna
do a numb another stream week later this year.
Georgia Hampton: That is
Mike Rugnetta: on the books. Okay.
Georgia Hampton: Far as we know, that is happening again.
Hans Buetow: Yeah. Was more than half of that forty hours. Yeah.
Yeah.
Georgia Hampton: Yeah. Oh, big oh, I I'm sure it was.
Mike Rugnetta: But between now and then.
Georgia Hampton: But between now and then, we're going to be
doing quite a lot more streaming on our Twitch channel,
twitch.tv/theneverpost. We are also going to lean a lot harder
on making streaming content for you and make a lot more of
Hans Buetow: it,
Georgia Hampton: which includes a monthly stream of our
editorial meeting that we have every Monday, where we pitch
ideas, we bring in ideas from other people, and we are going
to do that live for you, where you can be in the audience and
see how the Never Post Sausage is made and also contribute to
how segments get put together in a lot of different ways. That
was extremely instrumental when I was making that episode about
witchcraft and anti witches.
Jason Oberholtzer: Yeah. Like, we have already done this and it
has ruled. Like, we get great sources and ideas from people
and it validates the things we're trying to see if they're
sticky or not. These are so fun and so valuable to do.
Hans Buetow: But aren't there four Mondays in a month? Maybe
five?
Georgia Hampton: Why, yes, there are, Hans. But I have wonderful
news for you about the remaining Mondays where Wait, Paul's here
now. Paul, how did he get to Minneapolis? Oh, god. He's on
the way to me.
But, yes. So on other Mondays throughout the month, we will
also be live streaming other things like teen chats, maybe
some gaming. Definitely some gaming.
Mike Rugnetta: Georgia, certified professional gamer
girl.
Georgia Hampton: Yes. It's finally happening to me. Yeah. I
got the call once in a generation.
Jason Oberholtzer: So Mondays is gonna be the big day. 11:30
eastern on Mondays. That's when the editorial call will be once
a month. And other Mondays, we will have other programming for
you there. Sometimes the gaming will probably be in the
evenings, but we'll let you know.
Just hang out. We'll figure it out together. And once again,
that is twitch.tv/theneverpost. Hang out with us there. So one
of the things I know we're gonna be doing on Mondays at 11:30 on
some Monday on 11:30 is we are going to be having live
recordings of the team chats, little monthly yap fests which
we are going to release for the members.
As part of our membership benefits, we are gonna be doing
a monthly team chat. And if you wanna watch us record that live,
you can come to twitch.tv/ then ever post and watch us, or you
can become a member and listen to the edited output of that
coming out once a month and starring friend of the show and
yapping extraordinaire, Meaghel Janardin.
Mike Rugnetta: Okay. This gets us, I think, into the last thing
that we wanted to talk about, which is maybe one of the more
important things, which is, is anything gonna change for
members? And the answer is yes. I mean, you know, things are
gonna change insofar as the show itself is changing. Your feed
will change in ways that I think are will be easy to understand.
Like, you're gonna get the same parceled out uploads that
everybody else gets. But you're also going to get, as Jason
said, these members only Yapfests. There's essentially,
like, an extra chat show now that's gonna come out every once
in a while that's just for members. But Hans, do you wanna
talk about the other member feed changes that are gonna occur?
Hans Buetow: Absolutely. Because what we're gonna do is condense
things down into one feed. Right now, it says on every episode in
the show notes, subscribe, become a member, and you get
access to all of our different feeds. Well, those feeds are
gonna become one feed, so it's easier for you. You don't have
to remember which ones you're subscribed to, figure out, am I
do I have never watched or not never watched, whatever?
Everything's just gonna go down one feed, and frankly, we're not
gonna be feeding a whole lot more down that feed. We are
gonna not be doing extended interviews anymore. We just
don't get big numbers on them, and we struggle to be able to
take the time to go produce them considering all of the other
things for doing the regular show. So we're just gonna let
those go. If this is a huge deal breaker for you, let us know.
Mike Rugnetta: I have a feeling it's not because the best
versions of those interviews always just end up in the
segment. The puzzle
Georgia Hampton: is kind of like punishing the members. Like,
here's the version that isn't as good.
Jason Oberholtzer: Do you
Georgia Hampton: wanna pay us to listen to
Mike Rugnetta: something that's, like, maybe, like, 10% worse?
Hans Buetow: If yes, and you'll cancel your membership because
Mike Rugnetta: of that, please let us And we
Hans Buetow: can we can we'll talk about that. But you're
gonna get a bunch of stuff. It's gonna be much easier to access,
and it's gonna all funnel through one feed. So you'll get
more details about that if you're a member as we figure out
exactly the mechanics of how that's gonna work.
Jason Oberholtzer: One feed, a monthly Yapfest roundtable with
the crew, assorted oddities when we make them, and ad free
episodes of everything we put out. That's a pretty good feed.
That's a pretty good feed.
Hans Buetow: Alright. Great.
Mike Rugnetta: So Can I can I put a what should be a survey
question to our audience? Sure. I would love to know if there
are podcasts out there that have member feeds that you love. I
would love to know what they are.
Georgia Hampton: Yes. Yeah. That would be so helpful.
Mike Rugnetta: Like, what podcasts have something that is
forward facing where the member content is something that you
think slaps and, like, is really great, and it's all in one feed?
I would love to know.
Hans Buetow: So that's our plan. 2026. It's coming. It's here,
and we're gonna lean into all the stuff that we learned from
2025 and continue to try to grow the audience. We wanna spend
more time with you, our audience.
We wanna grow the revenue, obviously, because we need to
make this sustainable for all of us to be able to spend the time,
which we love, doing this for you, whom we love. We hope to
work with more contributors. We hope to have more partnerships
externally. And crucially, we hope to do even better this year
at making Neverpost on purpose. Well said, Hans.
Jason Oberholtzer: Well said.
Hans Buetow: So this is all gonna start in February. So
February 2, which is a Monday. Tune yourselves in 11:30 eastern
time and come to watch us stream our editorial meeting. And from
that point on, you will start to notice differences in all of the
feeds. We may have a couple of super secret fun tantalizing
things coming at you between now and then, but that should be the
next thing you should expect after this.
Jason Oberholtzer: And I do wanna say again, thank you to
everybody for making this a successful year, a year on the
path to sustainable growth. We are still not there yet. I know
we say this so many times. Like, every six months or so, we have
to say it again, but we are still not there. This is a
meaningful step.
We have, gained some support without having to spam marketing
dollars out there so that you know we exist. Like, enough of
you know we exist. We are a real show. And people can find us,
and we're trying to help more people find us and help us grow
more. We still need to grow a lot to be sustainable enough to
make this the amount of our jobs that it is the amount of our
lives.
We all spend about 50% of our work week on this show. And thus
far, we have not made money for doing that. And this year, with
your contributions, we will be able to split up some of that
money after it goes to hosting and contributors and all the
other budgets it goes to to pay ourselves a little to do this
and that is incredible. Thank
Mike Rugnetta: you. That's really great.
Jason Oberholtzer: Like, this huge step. It's not a lot for
us, but it is something. And like coming from nothing to
something is like an unbelievable step. So thank you
so much for that. Yeah.
And please continue to tell people who you think would like
what we do that we exist because we need to be at a new growth
stage when we do this same report to you next year. We need
to be bigger. We need to be able to take up more of our time with
this show and, I think that we have a chance of getting there.
We're certainly closer than we were last year. It's a long
process.
I know we all kind of thought when we got into this, oh, shows
take about four years to establish. It's one thing to
know that. It's another thing to feel it and To live it. Do it
every day. But if we're about halfway to getting this show to
where it's maybe sustainable, that's amazing.
It feels possible, but there's a lot more work to do. But But
it's been very satisfying work thus far, and I have to thank
all of you for helping us make this a reality and making this a
satisfying place to spend half of our work weeks.
Mike Rugnetta: I think that's really well said, Jason. And I
think the other thing that we think about a lot when we do
these kinds of updates is that, like, you know, Never Post is a
show foreign about the Internet, and the show is is a part of the
Internet. And so this is also us trying to take a look at what
it's like to make something now and to try to do it in such a
way that isn't unhealthy and doesn't drive the people who
make it insane and isn't irresponsible to do. And that's
a real balancing act. It's hard.
We, like, have to make sacrifices. We have to have,
like, tough conversations about, like, what work we can shoulder
and not shoulder and what we can do with the show over the next
year as it relates to, like, all of our other work and, like, it
feels good and necessary for us to share that with the audience.
And so I guess, you know, just to echo what we've been saying
over and over again in this, like, thank you everybody for
listening. Thank you for your support. I know that these
uploads are maybe a little like in the weeds and navel gazey,
but like, it's also like this is what it's like.
Yeah. This is, you know, which I hope also is just interesting. I
hope that you enjoy this for the reasons that you enjoy the other
parts of the show because we think of these things as being
very related. Definitely. Alright.
We'll see you with an episode, a much more normal Neverpost.
Well, you know, a Neverpost that is like the Neverpost that
you've come to expect. Yes. In a couple weeks. Okay.
Bye.
Georgia Hampton: Bye. Tell
Mike Rugnetta: your friends about the show.