1 00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:02,480 How long have you been in Grand Haven? 2 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:04,640 Probably six years now. 3 00:00:04,960 --> 00:00:07,800 So, yeah, I didn't surf like, you know, when we first moved here. But it 4 00:00:07,800 --> 00:00:08,360 was mostly. 5 00:00:08,400 --> 00:00:11,720 Surfer in Florida. And you came up here. And what did you think when people first 6 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:13,640 mentioned that you could surf out here? 7 00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:16,800 I thought they were kind of stupid. Honestly. It looked it looked really bad. And I 8 00:00:16,800 --> 00:00:18,400 thought, no way, they're having fun out there. 9 00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:24,640 Wind in your face, waves crashing on top of you and freezing cold water. 10 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:28,000 Why would anyone want to surf in the Great Lakes? 11 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:32,800 You're listening to Beyond the Shore from Michigan Public. 12 00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:37,400 I'm Rebecca Williams. This is the second of five stories about the Great Lakes. 13 00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:41,680 One story per lake, a snapshot that tells a story about each of the lakes. 14 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:44,800 A sort of microcosm of what makes each lake unique. 15 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:55,160 Chapter two Lake Michigan and the surfers who ride its waves. 16 00:01:03,140 --> 00:01:08,900 Surfing anywhere is like dancing with Mother Nature in the most intimate way, 17 00:01:08,940 --> 00:01:13,580 right? You have these big, beautiful masses of water that are literally 18 00:01:13,620 --> 00:01:19,180 carrying you. And I think it's so elevated here on the Great Lakes because we're surfing 19 00:01:19,180 --> 00:01:20,020 fresh water. 20 00:01:20,420 --> 00:01:23,780 Surfing. Lake Michigan has always been a part of life for Ella Skrocki. 21 00:01:24,020 --> 00:01:26,100 She caught her first wave when she was five. 22 00:01:26,260 --> 00:01:29,780 Her family opened a shop, Sleeping Bear, Surf and Kayak in Empire. 23 00:01:30,340 --> 00:01:33,500 She surfed all over, but surfing in a lake, she says, 24 00:01:33,540 --> 00:01:35,140 it's definitely different. 25 00:01:35,420 --> 00:01:37,180 It's like a gift. 26 00:01:37,220 --> 00:01:43,460 You know, to think that we get such beautiful formations here on a lake that is widely 27 00:01:43,460 --> 00:01:48,340 considered as inferior to its ocean counterparts is, 28 00:01:48,380 --> 00:01:50,580 like unbelievably special. 29 00:01:50,580 --> 00:01:53,060 And it almost feels like unreal when you're doing it. 30 00:01:53,580 --> 00:01:58,290 So the act of riding a wave just feels like this very incredible spiritual connection. 31 00:01:58,290 --> 00:01:59,690 You feel really weightless. 32 00:02:00,810 --> 00:02:07,330 And it's like the most present, I think that I've ever that I've ever 33 00:02:07,330 --> 00:02:08,810 experienced for sure. 34 00:02:10,770 --> 00:02:14,770 For this episode, we sent Dustin Dwyer out to talk to Lake Michigan surfers. 35 00:02:14,770 --> 00:02:15,570 Hey, Dustin. 36 00:02:15,570 --> 00:02:15,930 Hey. 37 00:02:17,010 --> 00:02:19,370 And Dustin, you did not just talk to surfers. 38 00:02:19,370 --> 00:02:20,970 You gave surfing a try yourself. 39 00:02:21,010 --> 00:02:22,650 Yeah, I had to check it out. 40 00:02:22,690 --> 00:02:24,970 I mean, for journalistic purposes, one, because, 41 00:02:25,010 --> 00:02:27,730 you know, you got a bunch of people saying that surfing is fun. 42 00:02:28,530 --> 00:02:31,290 And I had to fact check that, of course. 43 00:02:31,410 --> 00:02:34,610 But also like, I live here, I live in West Michigan and this beach, 44 00:02:34,610 --> 00:02:37,050 not on days like today, but when it's warm. 45 00:02:37,050 --> 00:02:41,690 I spend a lot of time here with my family, and we're always playing in these waves when 46 00:02:41,690 --> 00:02:45,250 there are waves. And like, if there was just an opportunity to, 47 00:02:45,730 --> 00:02:48,650 you know, experience Lake Michigan a little bit differently, 48 00:02:48,650 --> 00:02:49,970 I wanted to go for it. 49 00:02:50,290 --> 00:02:53,610 Okay. Well, we're definitely going to talk about that. But first, let's talk about these 50 00:02:53,610 --> 00:02:56,870 waves. We know that Lake Michigan is pretty big, 51 00:02:57,350 --> 00:03:00,710 but the first question everybody seems to have about surfing on the Great Lakes is 52 00:03:00,710 --> 00:03:02,990 really, you can surf the Great Lakes. 53 00:03:02,990 --> 00:03:04,230 How is that even possible? 54 00:03:04,270 --> 00:03:06,270 Well, you can explain it really in one word. 55 00:03:06,870 --> 00:03:07,510 Fetch. 56 00:03:07,910 --> 00:03:08,470 Fetch. 57 00:03:08,750 --> 00:03:09,350 Fetch. 58 00:03:09,550 --> 00:03:13,750 So what we're looking for is the most amount of fetch possible. 59 00:03:13,790 --> 00:03:15,390 Here's Ellis Grocki explaining it. 60 00:03:15,390 --> 00:03:18,030 Since she's surfed these waves since she was five. 61 00:03:18,070 --> 00:03:22,190 I met her at the beach in Frankfort, Michigan on a cold and snowy day this past 62 00:03:22,190 --> 00:03:22,910 November. 63 00:03:23,710 --> 00:03:25,630 So here at the Frankfort Pier, for instance, 64 00:03:25,790 --> 00:03:30,510 we have a couple hundred miles between here and Chicago for wind to push up from the 65 00:03:30,510 --> 00:03:33,710 south to drive energy here to the Frankfort Pier. 66 00:03:34,310 --> 00:03:38,270 So the stronger, more sustained wind out of the same direction, 67 00:03:38,270 --> 00:03:41,910 allowing the most amount of fetch, most distance that the wind can travel across 68 00:03:41,910 --> 00:03:44,870 the water. That's the that's the key. 69 00:03:44,910 --> 00:03:45,590 The ticket. 70 00:03:45,630 --> 00:03:48,950 Think about like the ocean, right? You have a big storm comes along. 71 00:03:48,950 --> 00:03:54,450 You have a strong sustained wind which pushes on the water and on the ocean that can travel 72 00:03:54,450 --> 00:03:57,730 for thousands of miles, building up energy the whole way until it 73 00:03:57,730 --> 00:03:59,890 finally crashes on the shore, on a lake. 74 00:03:59,930 --> 00:04:02,850 You can get the wind, but by the time the wave forms, 75 00:04:02,850 --> 00:04:05,490 it crashes and it's done so it can't get big. 76 00:04:05,610 --> 00:04:08,010 But the Great Lakes have more fetch than small lakes. 77 00:04:08,050 --> 00:04:11,370 Yeah, and that's the whole idea here, especially depending on where you are on the 78 00:04:11,370 --> 00:04:17,210 lake. So like where Ella and I are talking at that point is at Frankfort up the coast. 79 00:04:17,210 --> 00:04:20,090 And you know, from there it's on the north side of the lake. 80 00:04:20,090 --> 00:04:23,890 So what you really want is a wind out of the southwest where the wind's coming from right 81 00:04:23,890 --> 00:04:27,690 now up there, that wind is going to have more distance to travel. 82 00:04:27,690 --> 00:04:29,610 So more fetch, bigger wave. 83 00:04:30,010 --> 00:04:33,370 So you can get different surfing conditions in different parts of the lake. 84 00:04:33,410 --> 00:04:35,530 Yeah. Like depending on where you are. 85 00:04:35,690 --> 00:04:39,010 And you know, there's other factors too, like there's, 86 00:04:39,170 --> 00:04:42,050 there's the air temperature, there's the water temperature, 87 00:04:42,050 --> 00:04:44,650 there's the shape of the coast, there's the piers, 88 00:04:44,650 --> 00:04:48,130 which a lot of Lake Michigan surfing happens off of piers. 89 00:04:48,130 --> 00:04:51,720 And it's not just because it's easy to walk out on the pier and jump in the water. 90 00:04:51,840 --> 00:04:57,280 It's also because the waves behave differently around a pier and surfers like 91 00:04:57,320 --> 00:05:00,360 L.A. They've gotten to read those waves really, 92 00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:04,560 really well. And which I have to say is much harder than it sounds. 93 00:05:04,840 --> 00:05:06,280 As I discovered. 94 00:05:06,280 --> 00:05:08,040 When you gave surfing a try yourself. 95 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:08,760 Yep. 96 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:10,040 All right, let's hear about it. 97 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:13,720 Okay. So it was a different day than today. 98 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:18,960 The the first problem was like finding people to go out with. 99 00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:21,360 And who would lend me some gear. 100 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:24,160 So, you know, I kind of got that figured out. 101 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:26,760 And we finally talked to a surfer named Mark Hoeksema, 102 00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:29,360 and we picked a day he thought the waves were going to be good. 103 00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:31,320 It was actually a really nice day. 104 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:34,320 It was sunny. It was warm out here. 105 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:37,840 But we loaded up into Mark's van. 106 00:05:37,840 --> 00:05:41,520 We parked right over there, and we were looking out at the pier. 107 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:44,760 And I mean, it turned out, actually, that the waves were not good on 108 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:47,280 that day, but as we're in the van, you know, 109 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:50,740 cozy and warm, we were looking out and we could see on the pier, 110 00:05:50,740 --> 00:05:52,980 there's two guys out there trying to surf it. 111 00:05:53,980 --> 00:05:55,260 I haven't seen them catch one. 112 00:05:55,460 --> 00:05:56,620 Looks like they're giving up already. 113 00:05:56,660 --> 00:05:57,580 Are they really? 114 00:05:57,700 --> 00:05:59,340 Well, maybe. No. Maybe they're just getting back up. 115 00:05:59,380 --> 00:06:01,300 No, they're walking back out on the rocks. 116 00:06:01,340 --> 00:06:07,500 Yeah, yeah, yeah. A little hard, cause I remember when I was that age. 117 00:06:07,500 --> 00:06:10,540 And I was just stoked out of my mind, and I would just go no matter what. Now I'm 118 00:06:10,540 --> 00:06:10,860 like 119 00:06:12,140 --> 00:06:14,700 Mark grew up in Muskegon, and he learned to surf there. 120 00:06:14,700 --> 00:06:18,180 Or really, he learned to surf watching VHS tapes of surfers. 121 00:06:18,700 --> 00:06:20,540 After that, he moved to California. 122 00:06:20,540 --> 00:06:24,940 He worked at a surfing magazine for a while, and he tapped into the larger surfing 123 00:06:24,940 --> 00:06:27,940 community, and it taught him the difference. 124 00:06:27,940 --> 00:06:31,020 What makes Lake Michigan surfing special? 125 00:06:31,540 --> 00:06:34,940 When you get great waves here, you so much appreciate it. 126 00:06:34,980 --> 00:06:37,380 You know, serving in California, you get you get a great, 127 00:06:37,380 --> 00:06:40,220 great day every, you know, day or two a week. 128 00:06:40,220 --> 00:06:42,940 You get a good day, you know, a couple days a month, 129 00:06:42,940 --> 00:06:44,060 you get a great day. 130 00:06:44,100 --> 00:06:48,170 It was Lake Michigan. Surfing is surfing crappy waves every day so that you can enjoy 131 00:06:48,170 --> 00:06:49,850 the good wave that you get once a year. 132 00:06:49,890 --> 00:06:51,090 That's pretty much it. 133 00:06:51,130 --> 00:06:52,410 Yeah, definitely. 134 00:06:52,890 --> 00:06:56,810 Speaking of surfing, that crappy day we get out of the van, 135 00:06:57,370 --> 00:06:59,610 those two guys we'd seen jumping off the pier, 136 00:06:59,610 --> 00:07:01,650 they're out at this point, so we go talk to them. 137 00:07:01,770 --> 00:07:03,330 My lips are kind of cold right now. 138 00:07:04,010 --> 00:07:05,050 It's hard to talk, you know. 139 00:07:05,090 --> 00:07:06,050 How long were you out there? 140 00:07:06,330 --> 00:07:07,730 Oh, probably only like an hour. 141 00:07:08,090 --> 00:07:10,450 This is Jack Baze, 19 years old. 142 00:07:10,450 --> 00:07:12,650 He goes by Smitty with the other surfers. 143 00:07:12,850 --> 00:07:16,770 We heard him at the beginning. He learned to surf in Florida. Now he lives in Grand Haven. 144 00:07:17,090 --> 00:07:18,290 How long have you been in Grand Haven? 145 00:07:18,930 --> 00:07:20,450 Probably six years now. 146 00:07:20,770 --> 00:07:23,650 So, yeah, I didn't surf like, you know, when we first moved here. But it 147 00:07:23,650 --> 00:07:24,210 was mostly. 148 00:07:24,250 --> 00:07:27,570 Surfer in Florida. And you came up here. And what did you think when people first 149 00:07:27,690 --> 00:07:29,490 mentioned that you could surf out here? 150 00:07:29,530 --> 00:07:32,650 I thought they were kind of stupid. Honestly. It looked it looked really bad. And I 151 00:07:32,650 --> 00:07:34,250 thought, no way, they're having fun out there. 152 00:07:34,530 --> 00:07:37,410 His friend, the other guy in the water is Jack Ellis, 153 00:07:37,890 --> 00:07:40,170 and it was his first time surfing. 154 00:07:40,650 --> 00:07:41,930 Did you actually catch any? 155 00:07:42,090 --> 00:07:45,250 I was able to like, get up and bodysurf one, but I wasn't able to stand up. 156 00:07:45,350 --> 00:07:48,070 The current is way gnarlier than I would have expected. 157 00:07:48,110 --> 00:07:50,790 Like my arms were cooked in like 20 minutes. 158 00:07:50,790 --> 00:07:53,350 My. I was way out of breath and just smoked. 159 00:07:53,550 --> 00:07:57,790 My expectations at this point are getting like even lower. 160 00:07:58,750 --> 00:08:03,310 But there was one more person I had to meet before going in the water Ken Smith. 161 00:08:03,630 --> 00:08:07,590 He owns a surfboard repair shop in Grand Rapids called No Coast Surf, 162 00:08:07,910 --> 00:08:10,270 and he said he had a board I could borrow. 163 00:08:10,670 --> 00:08:14,030 He's originally from South Africa, but out of all the people I met, 164 00:08:14,070 --> 00:08:19,310 he was the one who everyone said would surf, even the crappiest of days. 165 00:08:19,350 --> 00:08:25,790 My basic theory is, is you can only get better at what you do by doing the worst. 166 00:08:26,030 --> 00:08:30,310 And so by surfing junky, what we call pile day. 167 00:08:31,710 --> 00:08:35,110 You know, it just improves you for when there's good surf out there and you know, you 168 00:08:35,110 --> 00:08:39,230 know, the conditions, you know, the sandbars you know where to sit. 169 00:08:39,870 --> 00:08:41,510 So I've got my wetsuit. 170 00:08:41,510 --> 00:08:45,530 I have a board. Mark and Ken are going to go out at the same time. 171 00:08:46,650 --> 00:08:52,690 I'm ready. I think Jody hands me a GoPro to strap onto my chest. 172 00:08:52,810 --> 00:08:55,690 I grab Ken's board and I'm in the water. 173 00:09:04,410 --> 00:09:07,570 There's a shock at first when the cold water hits the wetsuit. 174 00:09:07,570 --> 00:09:11,810 The water is about 40 degrees, but within a couple minutes the wetsuit does 175 00:09:11,810 --> 00:09:16,930 its job and I'm warm. I walk out from the beach and start looking for a wave. 176 00:09:17,770 --> 00:09:20,970 And at this point, there's probably a few things I should say about this. 177 00:09:21,010 --> 00:09:24,530 Like first, Lake Michigan can be a dangerous place. 178 00:09:25,010 --> 00:09:27,250 Every year people drown out here. 179 00:09:27,250 --> 00:09:31,690 And one reason is because people sometimes underestimate how strong the currents can be 180 00:09:32,090 --> 00:09:33,610 and how big the waves. 181 00:09:34,210 --> 00:09:36,690 For me, I've spent a lot of time on this lake. 182 00:09:36,690 --> 00:09:38,570 I've swam in this exact spot. 183 00:09:38,770 --> 00:09:42,400 I also spent part of my childhood living near the ocean where I swam lots. 184 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:44,960 I've surfed before in bigger waves than this. 185 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:48,160 And I went out with two people who know how to surf. 186 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:51,720 I never went near the pier because I didn't want to get thrown against it. 187 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:55,400 And because it was my first time, I also never swam out past where I could 188 00:09:55,440 --> 00:10:01,400 stand up. And for an hour out there, standing up is actually what I did the most. 189 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:07,200 Just standing there watching the Whitecaps, trying to decide if I should push the board 190 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:10,000 into any of these little waves by the shore. 191 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:12,480 I tried to catch a few waves. 192 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:16,960 Mark and Ken tried to give me advice, and a couple times I get the timing right and 193 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:22,600 the wave catches the board and I try to stand up and immediately fall over. 194 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:27,040 After a bit of this, I walked back to the beach and I caught up with Jodi, 195 00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:28,400 who checked the camera. 196 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:30,920 Around out there. I don't know, it looks like you're having fun. 197 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:32,680 It's very fun. I'm having fun. 198 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:34,840 I'm not surfing, but I'm having fun. 199 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:38,000 I go back out and I keep trying. 200 00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:41,860 And I keep failing. Eventually, after about an hour, 201 00:10:41,900 --> 00:10:45,380 my feet got cold and that's pretty much when I called it quits. 202 00:10:56,980 --> 00:10:58,580 Well, Dustin, you survived at least. 203 00:10:58,620 --> 00:11:01,940 Yeah, I lived to tell the tale, but I was freezing. 204 00:11:02,660 --> 00:11:04,300 Almost as cold as I am today. 205 00:11:05,060 --> 00:11:08,380 And it was getting out was harder than the actual surfing itself. 206 00:11:08,380 --> 00:11:11,700 Because by then you're cold and you have this thick, wet suit on and you've got to peel it 207 00:11:11,700 --> 00:11:15,900 off. And I actually had to find someone to help me peel it off. 208 00:11:16,300 --> 00:11:18,300 And I couldn't feel my toes. 209 00:11:18,580 --> 00:11:22,020 And I had saved my warm socks for the car ride home. 210 00:11:22,020 --> 00:11:24,540 But it was a long time before I could feel my feet again. 211 00:11:24,780 --> 00:11:26,380 Do you think you're ever going to do that again? 212 00:11:26,900 --> 00:11:29,540 I mean, yeah. I mean, first off, I didn't actually surf, 213 00:11:29,540 --> 00:11:33,100 so I'd like to say that I actually stood up on a surfboard. 214 00:11:33,820 --> 00:11:36,220 But you know, I've got to find the people again. 215 00:11:36,260 --> 00:11:38,080 I've got to get the gear again. 216 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:41,320 I got to find a day when there's actually good waves out here, 217 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:44,160 which is not today, clearly. 218 00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:46,320 Maybe when it's a little warmer. 219 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:47,880 I'll try it again. I hope. 220 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:50,160 How often are the waves good. 221 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:53,640 We know that the lakes are warming because of climate change. 222 00:11:53,680 --> 00:11:55,800 Does that affect how big the waves get? 223 00:11:56,840 --> 00:11:59,520 Okay, so that is actually a really good question. 224 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:03,560 And I looked into it, and when I asked Ellis Grocki, 225 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:05,960 who, you know, she surfed her whole life. 226 00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:09,760 She's out there most days when it's warm, giving surfing lessons. 227 00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:13,360 You know, I figured the lakes are getting warmer. 228 00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:16,120 Not today, but the lakes are getting warmer. 229 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:19,160 Storms, it seems like, are getting stormier. 230 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:22,320 So that seems like probably you're looking at bigger waves. 231 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:24,480 But when I asked Ellis Grocki, she was like, 232 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:27,480 no, she she thinks it's actually been the opposite. 233 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:34,000 We've had a pretty wide decrease in the amount of surfable days here on the lakes and 234 00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:37,550 in water temperature in the summer has actually increased. 235 00:12:37,950 --> 00:12:41,390 But we're getting, I think, different wind patterns. 236 00:12:41,950 --> 00:12:47,070 We have. It's so hard for me to answer this question because I've seen the changes, 237 00:12:47,070 --> 00:12:49,750 but I don't really understand why or how. 238 00:12:50,310 --> 00:12:53,670 Now Elon knows the lake as well as anyone, but she is not a scientist. 239 00:12:53,670 --> 00:12:55,590 So I called up a scientist. 240 00:12:56,230 --> 00:12:57,310 Can you hear me, Dustin? 241 00:12:57,350 --> 00:13:00,230 Yes I can. Hello, this is Kari Troy. 242 00:13:00,270 --> 00:13:03,990 He's in the engineering department at Purdue University. 243 00:13:04,030 --> 00:13:07,470 My research focuses on the physical processes of Lake Michigan. 244 00:13:07,470 --> 00:13:11,790 So I look at the waves, the currents, the temperatures, 245 00:13:12,550 --> 00:13:14,750 how stuff moves around the lake. 246 00:13:14,990 --> 00:13:17,470 A couple of years ago, one of his students, Nicholas Olsen, 247 00:13:17,470 --> 00:13:20,190 did a dissertation on this exact topic. 248 00:13:20,190 --> 00:13:24,910 Weather waves in Lake Michigan are getting bigger or smaller over time. 249 00:13:24,910 --> 00:13:29,750 We threw a lot of different statistical tests at the at the wave time series that we were 250 00:13:29,750 --> 00:13:32,150 able to generate, and we could not, you know, 251 00:13:32,190 --> 00:13:36,050 see a definitive increase or decrease in the wave. 252 00:13:36,250 --> 00:13:40,410 Then why would a surfer like Ella Skrocki have fewer surfable days? 253 00:13:41,050 --> 00:13:45,130 We don't know. And you know, one thing that Carrie says to keep in mind is 254 00:13:45,130 --> 00:13:50,050 that, you know, his study was measuring waves from buoys out in the middle of Lake 255 00:13:50,050 --> 00:13:54,890 Michigan. Ella is experiencing waves on the beach when they're crashing on the shore. 256 00:13:54,890 --> 00:13:57,850 And there could be things about, you know, the shape of the coast or the way 257 00:13:57,850 --> 00:14:01,450 the sand has moved around underneath the waves that could be affecting that. 258 00:14:01,890 --> 00:14:06,690 And also he said there was only two boys in his study. 259 00:14:06,690 --> 00:14:08,650 That's where they had the data for. 260 00:14:08,890 --> 00:14:12,650 And, you know, because we know conditions can be different at different parts of the lake, 261 00:14:12,690 --> 00:14:16,810 you know, you might, if there could be a study that looks at many different places of 262 00:14:16,810 --> 00:14:18,930 the lake, you might get a different result. 263 00:14:19,730 --> 00:14:22,730 But what he does know, and what we all know is that climate change 264 00:14:22,730 --> 00:14:25,730 is happening. We are seeing warmer lakes. 265 00:14:26,050 --> 00:14:30,370 But what scientists are still trying to figure out is what that means for all 266 00:14:30,370 --> 00:14:33,280 different types of things that are happening in the lakes. 267 00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:36,840 And, you know, we don't have a clear answer right now for waves themselves, 268 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:38,360 whether they're getting bigger or not. 269 00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:40,880 Yeah. No, I definitely don't think it's a dead end. 270 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:44,720 I think it's still a very interesting question that should be pursued. 271 00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:49,120 And well, like either way, you have this community of surfers out there 272 00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:51,080 catching the waves that they can. 273 00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:54,920 And when Ella Skrocki thinks about it, she's not thinking about, 274 00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:59,360 you know, the data points. She's not thinking about the buoys or the statistical analysis. 275 00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:03,400 She's thinking about this community of surfers and she's thinking about, 276 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:08,160 you know, honestly, her mom, Beryl, who was the founder of Sleeping Bear 277 00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:11,360 Surfing kayak, was a pillar in the surfing community up there. 278 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:15,560 She was a legend, really, and she passed away a few years ago. 279 00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:19,440 And she was also so in love with this lake. 280 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:21,600 She was an environmental advocate. 281 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:28,680 She was. And I think her legacy is so rooted in joy and it's rooted in stewardship. 282 00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:33,940 And this idea of passing forward what you love and hopes that they might love. 283 00:15:34,460 --> 00:15:38,020 The beautiful gift that is Lake Michigan and the Great Lakes. 284 00:15:38,980 --> 00:15:41,060 And that's what surfing is for her. 285 00:15:41,260 --> 00:15:44,420 A way to experience the gift that is Lake Michigan, 286 00:15:45,380 --> 00:15:47,380 even when it feels terrible out here. 287 00:15:47,620 --> 00:15:52,500 I think probably my favorite days surfing here on the Great Lakes are right in June, 288 00:15:52,500 --> 00:15:58,580 when we get our first swell of the season and everyone comes out here to the Frankfort 289 00:15:58,580 --> 00:16:01,700 Pier, there's like kiteboarders, there's foilers, there's paddle boarders, 290 00:16:01,700 --> 00:16:07,820 there's surfers, boogie boarders and everyone's like, 291 00:16:07,940 --> 00:16:09,980 this is the best ever. 292 00:16:09,980 --> 00:16:13,540 And you look at the water and it's like knee high wind chop. 293 00:16:14,060 --> 00:16:17,300 But everyone's just excited for this opportunity to play. 294 00:16:17,300 --> 00:16:21,900 And I think that's what's just really special about this culture of freshwater adventure 295 00:16:21,900 --> 00:16:22,300 here. 296 00:16:27,340 --> 00:16:29,360 Excited for the opportunity to play. 297 00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:34,800 Yeah. And I feel like that's probably the part that I wasn't fully getting when I first 298 00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:38,760 started. The story is like, you know, the surfers out here, 299 00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:41,960 no one's out here thinking this is the greatest wave on the planet. They're not like 300 00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:44,760 surfing barrels in Hawaii or anything like that. 301 00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:49,280 It's just that it's such a gift to even be able to surf out here that, 302 00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:53,200 you know, if you get that opportunity, no matter if the waves are terrible, 303 00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:55,920 no matter if you're freezing cold like I am now, 304 00:16:55,920 --> 00:16:59,800 no matter if you're like me and you can't even stand up on the board, 305 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:02,600 you know, if you have the chance, you take it. 306 00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:03,680 Thanks, Dustin. 307 00:17:04,360 --> 00:17:06,360 Thank you. We got to go warm up now. 308 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:17,120 Next time on Beyond the Shore, Michigan Public's Kate Furby takes us out on 309 00:17:17,120 --> 00:17:20,720 a frozen lake to follow the story of an ancient fish. 310 00:17:21,120 --> 00:17:23,320 Did you say that not to put our seatbelts on? 311 00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:25,240 And is that in case we fall through the ice? 312 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:28,470 That is, in case the truck, for some silly reason, goes through. That 313 00:17:28,470 --> 00:17:29,870 should not be the case today. 314 00:17:30,230 --> 00:17:32,710 We're cutting 24 to 26in of ice. 315 00:17:33,150 --> 00:17:34,750 But pressure cracks do open up. 316 00:17:34,750 --> 00:17:35,910 Silly things do happen. 317 00:17:38,030 --> 00:17:39,750 Very low. Very low percentage. 318 00:17:39,750 --> 00:17:42,430 But in case that does happen, it's not zero. 319 00:17:42,670 --> 00:17:46,630 An adventure to understand the Midwestern love for the dinosaur Sturgeon. 320 00:17:50,750 --> 00:17:54,910 Dustin Dwyer reported and produced this episode with editing from me, 321 00:17:54,950 --> 00:17:57,030 Vincent Duffy and Jodi Westrich. 322 00:17:57,350 --> 00:17:59,830 Special thanks to Randy Keast and Mike King. 323 00:18:00,310 --> 00:18:04,110 Support for the production of this podcast was made possible by the Charles Stewart Mott 324 00:18:04,110 --> 00:18:06,950 Foundation as part of its Great Lakes News Collaborative. 325 00:18:07,350 --> 00:18:09,150 Music by blue Dot sessions. 326 00:18:09,590 --> 00:18:13,270 I'm Rebecca Williams. Beyond the shore is a production of Michigan Public. 327 00:18:13,310 --> 00:18:17,070 You can find all of our podcasts at Michigan public.org slash.