FNS_EP02_Transcript [00:00:00] Erin Potts: The dreaming about going to Tibet was really the fall of 1992. If I was going to dedicate my life, as I hoped to do, to Tibetan freedom and to human rights and to supporting the Tibetan people, I needed to see it with my own eyes and not just read about it anymore. At first, the conversations were very, uh, open-ended and dreamy and like, "We wanna do this." [00:00:29] Erin Potts: And then they slowly over time became, "We're gonna do this, and this is how we can do this." [00:00:36] Erin Potts: The flight was crazy. Like, you literally take off from Kathmandu, you fly along the Himalaya Mountains, you turn left at Everest, and you're in Tibet. The geography changes so rapidly. It goes from very steep mountains, very green where the monsoon rains kind of hit the mountains and drop all the rain to a [00:01:00] really high desert. [00:01:03] Erin Potts: I remember feeling like I couldn't believe I was seeing it with my own eyes. [00:01:26] Erin Potts: I'm Erin Potts. This is Freedom Needs a Soundtrack, the story behind the Tibetan Freedom Concerts and how an unlikely group of people turned music and hope into action. This series is a Rangzen production produced by Adonde Media. [00:01:46] Erin Potts: Episode Two: Inside Tibet. [00:01:54] Erin Potts: I can't remember how I found out about College Year in Nepal, but I was a sophomore, and [00:02:00] it was early 1992. It was a one-year program. You would study Tibetan language. And so I would learn a lot in the summer, and then I would go for an entire year. You know, for a kid who was trying to figure out how to bring together activism and human rights and a love of this culture on the other side of the world, this was it. [00:02:27] Erin Potts: Part of the written application for this program was a general essay about why you wanted to go to Nepal and why you wanted to study Tibetan language. You know, I was 19 years old. I was not a great writer. I talked a lot about the trip that I had taken a couple years prior when I was in high school and living with the Tibetan community, and I wrote in that essay that Tibetan culture embodied this [00:03:00] compassion and wisdom and nonviolence too, and that those things were like pillars in my life. [00:03:09] Erin Potts: It was what I was striving to be. And I wanted nonviolence to win because if it could succeed there, it can be a model for everywhere else. I had never applied for anything I wanted so badly, so I was a wreck. I was nervous and it was a couple of weeks later that the formal letter came in the mail, and oh my God, I was so excited. [00:03:41] Erin Potts: So after months learning the language, I flew to Nepal, and I remember as we landed, looking out the window and seeing the terraced hills of the surrounding area around Kathmandu, and, [00:04:00] you know, monsoon season had, it was sort of tapering off, but it was just so, so green. Um, soon after arriving and moving into my Tibetan family's house, I met Sam Chapin. [00:04:13] Sam Chapin: Yeah, I remember meeting Erin at the, uh, the College Year in Nepal program house. I had been a student two years earlier than Erin, but I still lived in Nepal. I'd stayed on. [00:04:24] Erin Potts: He had big hair and a big beard, and he wore this leather hat, and he looked like a backpacker who had stayed there for years and years. [00:04:38] Sam Chapin: You know, Kathmandu is a big city, but it was sort of small, and she was... I remember she used to ride her bike by my house, and she used to wear her hair, like, up in a crazy topknot that used to bounce all over the place. I remember she would ride by on her bike, and we would say hi, and, you know, we slowly got to know each other over the course of, you know, just being in the same city and being, [00:05:00] having the same interest in Tibet. [00:05:03] Erin Potts: He had a motorcycle, and we would go on these wild adventures. [00:05:09] Sam Chapin: One time, like, this huge storm came up and wiped us off the motorcycle. All these power lines came down around us. We had to jump off the side of the road. She still has a rock in her leg from that, I think. [00:05:20] Erin Potts: We would just go to, to these different places around Kathmandu and, and also have, like, huge parties, where his band or other bands would play. [00:05:33] Sam Chapin: I was in a band with a bunch of people from all over the world, really. Mostly just expats who lived in Nepal, and some Tibetan and Nepali guys would play with us, too. [00:05:42] Erin Potts: And then he spent a lot of time in my Tibetan family's house. He'd always show up just before the food arrived, too, like just before dinner, and we'd all have this great meal together and stuff. [00:05:54] Erin Potts: So, my time in Nepal was very much spending time with [00:06:00] both the Tibetan community and this Western community that I was becoming a part of. [00:06:14] Erin Potts: Kathmandu is a very small town, and there's a pretty robust gossip mill that happens. And we started hearing rumors that a Beastie Boy was coming to town. [00:06:25] Announcer, Trailer for "Little Buddha" (1993): A magical journey to the mystical place... [00:06:30] Erin Potts: At this point, celebrities were coming to Kathmandu all the time, and in fact, earlier in the fall of '92, uh, a movie was being made in Boudha, like right outside my family's apartment. [00:06:45] Announcer, Trailer for "Little Buddha" (1993): In Bernardo Bertolucci's "Little Buddha." [00:06:48] Erin Potts: Uh, it was called "Little Buddha," and Chris Isaak was in it, Keanu Reeves was in it, um, and we would see them around town as they were filming this. [00:06:57] Erin Potts: I think that there had been in Western [00:07:00] media a romanticization of Tibet and of Buddhism, and I think that it attracts a lot of people. So, it was sort of like when we heard that a Beastie Boy was coming to town, it was like, "Okay, whatever." [00:07:15] Erin Potts: The Beastie Boy that was in town, Adam Yauch, he's the bass player. He's commonly known as MCA, and was traveling with a bunch of other musicians, and somebody in our group, friend group, knew each other, and all of a sudden a party is being planned at Sam's place. [00:07:36] Sam Chapin: I was living in this, uh, it was a old palace from the, this group called the Ranas. They used to rule Nepal. [00:07:44] Sam Chapin: They retained their palace, but it was kind of a broken-down palace. We rented it from them. [00:07:49] Erin Potts: It was very opulent. The main room was, like, this marble, uh, room, that was actually, like, where they would play music. [00:07:57] Sam Chapin: All different colors painted everywhere, [00:08:00] black and white marble floors, this huge bathroom, but everything was in disrepair. [00:08:05] Erin Potts: And it was where we had all the parties. So there's lots of food and, you know, the band set up, and there was a lot of people. You know, probably, like, 30 or 40 maybe. [00:08:18] Sam Chapin: So a bunch of people came, and Erin came, although Erin was hesitant at first, I have to say, 'cause she didn't really like the Beastie Boys, 'cause that was before they changed their message and their tune. [00:08:28] Sam Chapin: But eventually she wound up coming. [00:08:29] Erin Potts: I was at the party and look over, and there's Adam. He was about my size, so five foot 10, and very skinny. Had a shaved head, and he had these amazingly long fingers, spider-like fingers. He even said, like, "It's a good thing I'm a bass player." Um, in some ways he just looked like a regular guy. [00:08:59] Sam Chapin: [00:09:00] Adam just struck me as such a very interesting and genuine person. You know, not at all like what you would expect a rock star to be. [00:09:07] Erin Potts: There was nothing that screamed musician or even Beastie Boy about him. I'm a woman that grew up with their music being very loud and very popular, and they were singing things early in their career that was being used to justify mistreatment of women. [00:09:34] Erin Potts: And, you know, the night just went on, and by the end of the night he ended up wandering over to me and saying, "Hi, my name's Adam." And I was ruder to him than I have ever been to anybody in my life. My response was, "I know who you are, I know what you sing about, [00:10:00] and I don't wanna talk to you." [00:10:03] Erin Potts: He said something like, "Yeah, we wrote those songs when we were really young, and I'm sorry." [00:10:11] Erin Potts: And I don't know exactly how it transitioned in my brain, but I realized, "Okay, he's not the asshole I thought he was." [00:10:22] Sam Chapin: At the party, Erin and Adam and I quickly started talking and, you know, we really connected, the three of us. I remember talking to Adam and he just being such an interesting guy, and so nice and open and genuine and, you know, I immediately wanted to be, like, friends with him. [00:10:38] Erin Potts: So we started talking, and he was like, "Why are you here?" Like, "Why are you in Nepal?" [00:10:43] Erin Potts: And he and his group of musicians, they had been hiking in the mountains of Nepal, and they had met Tibetans who were just escaping from Tibet. They were just coming over the border. And he told me about that experience of meeting people who [00:11:00] were fleeing for their lives. [00:11:01] Adam Yauch, Beastie Boys (Archive): But then I started learning about, um, that their struggle was nonviolent, and I started learning about the Dalai Lama and hearing some of what he had to say about compassion and nonviolence, and I think I just started realizing how important, uh, Tibet and Tibetan culture is to preserve, how important it is to all of us. [00:11:21] Erin Potts: He was really affected by that experience. At the end of the night, he was like, "Will you take me to the Tibetan part of town that you live in and show me around?" [00:11:33] Erin Potts: And I was like, "Okay." And so we did. [00:11:42] Erin Potts: Sam and I took Adam to our two favorite monasteries in Boudha. The first one we went to, there was a big ritual going on. The main hall was just filled with hundreds of monks, and they were doing a special ritual that day. So we [00:12:00] took our shoes off, and we sat in the back, and we watched things. Just observed. [00:12:09] Erin Potts: I remember Adam asked a lot of questions about Buddhism, about Tibetan culture. [00:12:14] Adam Yauch, Beastie Boys (Archive): I had been, like, studying different religions and, um, just trying to learn about spirituality and how that fit into different cultures, and started specifically studying Tibetan religion and also working to try to help. [00:12:31] Erin Potts: As we were leaving the second monastery, we bumped into my Tibetan language teacher, Tinley-la. And before I could even tell him what was going on and who Adam was, he said, "My sister's getting married. You have to come to the wedding. Come." And he just, like, grabbed us and took us to the wedding, and all of a sudden, we find ourselves sitting next to the groom and the bride in the place of honor at the wedding. [00:12:58] Sam Chapin: And we had such a great time, and they were so [00:13:00] nice, and they didn't know who the Beastie Boys were, who Adam was. Like, they just were happy to have a few friends come and, you know, they welcomed us. [00:13:08] Erin Potts: And Tibetans give these long, white blessing scarves, khatas. So the bride gets one, the groom gets one, and then we start getting them. [00:13:17] Erin Potts: And it was, like, a little awkward. We're in these seats of honor, uh, and the whole community is coming to give blessings to this wedding, and I... [00:13:28] Erin Potts: You know, it was very overwhelming, so I look over at Adam at one point just like, "How's he doing with all this? Like, this is a lot to take in." [00:13:35] Erin Potts: And he just had this big old grin on his face, like ear to ear, and I just knew in that moment he was falling in love with Tibet and Tibetan culture just like I did. [00:13:49] Sam Chapin: I think Adam was very touched by the whole thing. I mean, he could see these people were so genuine and really, you know, uh, happy to have him there. [00:13:57] Erin Potts: Like, and nobody knew that it was Adam from the Beastie [00:14:00] Boys! [00:14:00] Sam Chapin: Whoever he was. They didn't care who he was. [00:14:04] Erin Potts: At the end of that day in Boudha with Adam, we dropped him off at his hotel. He was leaving to go back to the States the next day. And we could kinda tell that he was bummed. He didn't quite wanna leave yet. [00:14:18] Sam Chapin: Yeah, I think Erin and I started talking about, you know, we were gonna- we had been planning the trip up to Tibet, which took some planning, and how hard it was to do that and, but it could be done. [00:14:28] Erin Potts: And I remember Sam said something like, "Maybe you should come with us." And Adam, he just smiled, and he says he wants to go. [00:14:40] Sam Chapin: Yeah, I think we all decided we would stay in touch. [00:14:42] Erin Potts: He went back to the States. We started, um, writing letters back and forth. [00:14:47] Sam Chapin: Back then, that was, you know, without real email, internet, phone. [00:14:53] Erin Potts: We were saying like, "Hey, we're gonna go in May." [00:14:55] Sam Chapin: You know, he wanted to join, but he had, you know, tour dates or I can't remember exactly his thing. [00:15:00] [00:15:01] Erin Potts: Unfortunately, the Beastie Boys were in the recording studio right then recording "Ill Communication," so he ended up not being able to come with us. [00:15:13] Erin Potts: So the dreaming about going to Tibet was really the first few months that I was in Nepal. [00:15:20] Reporter, France 24 News: In Lhasa, there are more Chinese soldiers to be seen than tourists. Visas to enter Tibet are granted piecemeal by the Chinese authorities, and for a maximum stay of six days. All foreigners must be accompanied by a guide who is charged with watching them in accordance with draconian regulations. [00:15:37] Sam Chapin: I had been to Tibet previously in '87, and there was an uprising and Tibet closed. And now it was '93. Tibet had just sort of slowly opened up a little bit. And, you know, we decided we really had to take advantage of this. And Erin had never been, and she really wanted to go up there. [00:15:54] Erin Potts: If I was going to dedicate my life to supporting the Tibetan people, I needed to see [00:16:00] it with my own eyes and not just read about it anymore. [00:16:05] Erin Potts: At first, the conversations were very, uh, open-ended and dreamy and like, "We wanna do this." [00:16:13] Erin Potts: And then they slowly over time became, "We're gonna do this, and this is how we can do this." [00:16:20] Erin Potts: Like, to go there in a way that minimizes the support, both financial and morally, to the Chinese government, and that keeps Tibetans safe. [00:16:31] Erin Potts: Um, we had heard so many stories of Tibetans who interacted with Westerners getting disappeared. [00:16:39] Narrator, SFT footage of Lhasa Uprising (1989): The Chinese imprison, torture, and kill Tibetans who give foreigners information or who discuss politics with foreigners at all. [00:16:47] Erin Potts: So the plan was really experience and observe, but as low-key as we could be.[00:17:00] [00:17:00] Erin Potts: At that time, to get to Tibet, you had to go on an official Chinese tour. [00:17:05] Sam Chapin: You could fly up as part of a little tour, and then basically they put you in a hotel, and then they sort of lose track of you. And then, you know, either you leave on your own or you just stay on, which is what we did. [00:17:18] Erin Potts: The flight was crazy. [00:17:19] Erin Potts: Like, you literally take off from Katmandu, you fly along the Himalaya Mountains, you turn left at Everest, and you're in Tibet. The geography changes so rapidly. [00:17:32] Sam Chapin: You go from Katmandu's, like, 4,000 feet, Lhasa's 12,000 feet, and, uh, suddenly you're out, and, uh, it was just amazing. [00:17:40] Erin Potts: As soon as you hit Tibet, like, you know you're in Tibet. [00:17:43] Erin Potts: It goes from very steep mountains, very green where the monsoon rains kinda hit the mountains and drop all the rain, to a really high desert. I remember feeling like [00:18:00] I couldn't believe I was seeing it with my own eyes. [00:18:09] Erin Potts: So we land at the airport, and our Chinese guide meets us and the others who are on the trip, and we take a bus into Lhasa, and we are put in a Chinese hotel. And then the next day, we basically ghosted. And we moved out of that hotel, and we moved to the Tibetan part of town, and we stayed there for the rest of the month. [00:18:38] Sam Chapin: The people are so incredible up there. They're just so happy to see you, and, you know, we could both speak some Tibetan, which helped a lot, you know. And there was a little scene of, uh, tourists or expats hanging around. Like, nobody could really live there, but people were coming and staying as long as they could. [00:18:53] Erin Potts: It's weird to say the Tibetan part of town when it's inside Tibet, but Lhasa, the capital city, [00:19:00] was really transformed into a Chinese city in many ways. There were very big utilitarian Chinese buildings, glass and metal buildings everywhere, and then there are these low one, two-story stone or stucco-type traditional Tibetan buildings. [00:19:19] Erin Potts: And so we moved to one of those kinds of buildings that a hostel was being run out of. That part of town centered around a temple called the Jokhang, which is probably the most important temple in Tibet. As you walk around the Jokhang, there are all these stalls selling Tibetan things, Tibetan food. [00:19:43] Erin Potts: Boiled potatoes was my favorite. I'd have that every morning for breakfast. Part of the plan was that Sam and I were gonna not speak Tibetan if we could help it because we knew that that is a threat to [00:20:00] whomever we were speaking to. The Chinese government has tried to erase Tibetan language, as well as culture, as well as religion. [00:20:07] Erin Potts: And so the first day we were out circumambulating, a Tibetan came up and said in English, "Where are you from?" [00:20:16] Erin Potts: And I say in English, "America." [00:20:20] Erin Potts: He looked around, then he whispered, "It's very dangerous, and there are spies everywhere." [00:20:28] Erin Potts: And he started talking about Tibetan freedom. I remember I broke our rule, and I said to him in Tibetan, "We're here to help, if we can." [00:20:45] Erin Potts: I think I was so freaked out that the first few hours of being in a Tibetan community inside Tibet, that somebody would risk everything to say those things, [00:20:58] Erin Potts: I felt like I [00:21:00] had to let that person know we heard them, and there are people in the world that are working to try and help them. [00:21:15] Erin Potts: We went there thinking we're not really gonna be hanging out with Tibetans. But as soon as we got there, it was like every Tibetan wanted to interact with us and tell us what they thought of the world and ask us questions. So we became friends with a bunch of Tibetans. [00:21:31] Sam Chapin: And then Erin and I went on a long trek. [00:21:34] Sam Chapin: We went from Lhasa up over the real higher mountains, like up to 18,000 or maybe more. We came back through Samye, one of the very important monasteries, and then we made it back to Lhasa. [00:21:47] Erin Potts: And we started hearing rumors that there were protests that were being planned and that the nature of the protests that we heard were economic. [00:21:58] Erin Potts: They were about [00:22:00] not being able to determine their own economic future and being second-class citizens and discriminated against in their own country. We were told where the protests would begin. I have my cameras and a ton of film. I didn't realize how that day was gonna end, but we were like, "Let's go take pictures of it and follow it as long as we can and document anything that we see happening." [00:22:35] Erin Potts: Most of the day we were just following the protesters. They had these long signs that they had made out of fabric, and they had written in Tibetan on it. They marched all over town, and I was a little surprised that they were allowed to keep going. Like at one point, I remember we were passing a gas [00:23:00] station of some sort that had been closed off, [00:23:03] Erin Potts: and there were these really young Chinese military men that were loading boxes that to me looked like ammunitions. [00:23:14] Erin Potts: Not that I had ever actually seen any ammunitions, but like, ammunition boxes that you see in movies? That's what it looked like. And that made me think like, okay, they're getting ready for something. [00:23:27] Sam Chapin: Suddenly we saw this commotion and we saw Tibetans protesting, you know, raising their hands, and we started taking pictures. [00:23:35] Sam Chapin: Erin had a camera. I didn't have a camera. She had kind of, you know, those big old clunky SLRs, like this is a film camera, not a digital camera, so every shot really counted. [00:23:44] Erin Potts: I remember we were on the sidewalk. They were in the street. I was taking a picture, and one of the protesters that was holding the sign saw me, and he turned the [00:24:00] sign so that I could get a shot of the full sign. [00:24:04] Erin Potts: And when he did that, a Chinese officer saw him, saw that he was looking at me, and that I had a camera, [00:24:13] Erin Potts: and the Chinese officer started yelling at somebody near me and pointing to me, but this was all in Chinese, so I don't know what he was saying. [00:24:21] Sam Chapin: Erin was taking a bunch of pictures, and suddenly the police were on us. [00:24:25] Erin Potts: A Tibetan guy walked towards me, and he grabbed my arm, and I realized he was a Tibetan that worked for the Chinese police. He asked me in English where my camera was. I had put my camera down when I saw him walking towards me, and I just put it behind my back. [00:24:47] Sam Chapin: And Erin passed her camera back to me. I was behind her, and they were talking to her, but she no longer had the camera. [00:24:54] Sam Chapin: I had the camera. [00:24:56] Erin Potts: He hid it with some Tibetan friends of ours that [00:25:00] like we still, we don't talk about who it was, where it was, where the camera was hidden at that moment because we're still to this day scared that they could get in trouble. [00:25:10] Sam Chapin: He was risking his life, and he didn't really know me. He just took it without any hesitation. [00:25:16] Erin Potts: I lifted my hand and I said, "What, what camera?" [00:25:20] Erin Potts: The Tibetan guy just kind of looked at me. The Chinese officer who had told him, I guess, to grab me got distracted with something else that was going on, and it was just me looking at this Tibetan who worked for the Chinese police. I asked him in Tibetan, "Are you Tibetan or are you Chinese?" [00:25:39] Erin Potts: And I regret that to this day, because what the fuck did I know about his life and what he was doing? But he did not arrest me. He did not drag me over to the Chinese police officer who told him to grab me. Like, he did none of that. At this point in [00:26:00] the protest, I was scared. Like, I had just got grabbed, and I had on me film that implicated a lot of people who were in this protest. [00:26:11] Erin Potts: So we went back and we got my camera eventually from where Sam had hidden it, and then went back to our hostel. The protest was coming into the Tibetan part of town, and then everything kind of exploded, like all in a second. You could just hear pop, pop, pop, and then people screaming and people running. [00:26:39] Erin Potts: From the upper levels of the courtyard of our hostel, we could see Chinese police officers with guns and with tear gas shooting into the crowd. I had pictures of protesters running away from where the [00:27:00] shooting was happening, [00:27:02] Erin Potts: and our hotel had a little pedestrian door the size of a person that they opened so that the Tibetans could run in and get away from the shooting and the tear gas. [00:27:12] Erin Potts: And I saw people run into that courtyard. Their faces were bloody. They were choking on tear gas. [00:27:28] Erin Potts: The gunfire stops, people get back to their homes or get treated for their injuries or arrested. [00:27:36] Sam Chapin: So we were pretty high on adrenaline then. Like, you know, we have photos of all this. This has actually happened in front of us. [00:27:41] Erin Potts: We wanted the world to know about this, and we were stuck in this place that was on lockdown, um, with no... [00:27:48] Erin Potts: You know, there's no internet. But somehow the Western press in Beijing started hearing that something had happened in Tibet, and they started calling [00:28:00] the different hotels that Westerners would stay in. One of the calls was a New York Times journalist named Nicholas Kristof, and he was the Beijing correspondent at the time, [00:28:12] Erin Potts: and, you know, we answered all his questions about what we saw and experienced, what we were hearing. [00:28:19] Erin Potts: We didn't realize this 'cause there was a media lockdown in- inside Tibet, but the day after we talked to Ni- Nicholas Kristof, uh, that article ran on, like, the third page of The New York Times, and it quoted us. We insisted on being anonymous because we were still there. We started learning that several of our friends who had also come to Tibet, they had been arrested. [00:28:46] Erin Potts: Their journals had been read through. They had been forced to write these letters of apology to China and the motherland for offending them, and then they were deported. We [00:29:00] were petrified that the same would happen to us, but they would find all the things that we were hiding. We still had rolls and rolls of film that had documented the entire progression of the day, including the shootings. [00:29:15] Sam Chapin: Nowadays, everybody has photos of everything, but back then, you know, nobody had photos of anything. There was just rumors. So we felt like we had something that the world needed to see. And now the question was, how do you get it out of Tibet? [00:29:27] Erin Potts: So we hid them in, in the ceiling of our hostel room, and we decided we were gonna leave it there until we could figure out what to do with it. [00:29:39] Erin Potts: The next bunch of days became very fraught, like very scary. We needed to get the film out of the country to someplace that could process it and then get it to the Western press. I knew I had great shots, but I didn't know what would come out and what didn't. [00:30:00] At one point, we had come back to our hostel and, uh, one of the Tibetans that worked there pulled me aside and said in Tibetan that an American had been looking for me, and to be careful that this American worked with the Chinese. [00:30:18] Erin Potts: A couple hours later, this guy comes back to the hotel and we're there, and he actually came to our hotel room to have a conversation with us. And all these canisters of film are literally just above his head in the ceiling of this hotel room. [00:30:40] Erin Potts: Freedom Needs a Soundtrack is a Rangzen production, produced by Adonde Media and distributed in partnership with KALW Public Media in San Francisco. This series was written and produced by Andrés Caballero. Project management and archival production were led by Mariano Pagella. Fact checking by Ana Lucia [00:31:00] Murillo. [00:31:01] Erin Potts: Sound design and mastering by Martín Cruz. Martina Castro was the editor and one of the executive producers. The original theme song is by Money Mark. For Rangzen, the series executive producers were Deyden Tethong and myself, Erin Potts. A very special thanks to all who were part of the concerts and to those who helped make this series possible. [00:31:23] Erin Potts: You can hear the rest of the episodes for free on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. This series features voices and audio that we gathered from archival sources. Find links and more information about the concerts at Freedom Needs a Soundtrack.com.