WEBVTT

1
00:00:01.060 --> 00:00:02.839
Hi, I'm Niala Boodoo.

2
00:00:02.840 --> 00:00:04.719
Welcome to the very first episode

3
00:00:04.720 --> 00:00:06.099
of Oh God Now What?

4
00:00:09.380 --> 00:00:11.299
I'm so excited for you to listen to

5
00:00:11.300 --> 00:00:13.219
this show that's been years in

6
00:00:13.220 --> 00:00:14.179
the making.

7
00:00:14.180 --> 00:00:15.879
I've been a journalist for more than

8
00:00:15.880 --> 00:00:17.719
two decades and the heart of this

9
00:00:17.720 --> 00:00:19.659
show is that I really want

10
00:00:19.660 --> 00:00:21.359
to be having different

11
00:00:21.360 --> 00:00:22.139
conversations.

12
00:00:22.140 --> 00:00:24.179
So this isn't yet another

13
00:00:24.180 --> 00:00:25.339
news show.

14
00:00:25.340 --> 00:00:27.539
This is a show about how

15
00:00:27.540 --> 00:00:29.059
to live with the news.

16
00:00:29.060 --> 00:00:31.299
So each week I'll be in conversation

17
00:00:31.300 --> 00:00:33.079
with one or two religious or

18
00:00:33.080 --> 00:00:34.679
spiritual leaders from different

19
00:00:34.680 --> 00:00:35.579
faith traditions.

20
00:00:35.580 --> 00:00:36.769
And the idea...

21
00:00:36.770 --> 00:00:38.469
Isn't to really learn about those

22
00:00:38.470 --> 00:00:40.589
religions, but really to learn from

23
00:00:40.590 --> 00:00:42.409
them and to get a deeper

24
00:00:42.410 --> 00:00:44.449
perspective on current events by

25
00:00:44.450 --> 00:00:46.589
taking a much longer view.

26
00:00:46.590 --> 00:00:48.549
And by longer view, I mean

27
00:00:48.550 --> 00:00:50.829
history that goes back hundreds

28
00:00:50.830 --> 00:00:53.069
or thousands of years to

29
00:00:53.070 --> 00:00:55.149
place this current moment in

30
00:00:55.150 --> 00:00:56.150
context.

31
00:01:03.600 --> 00:01:05.479
In future episodes, I'll be

32
00:01:05.480 --> 00:01:07.379
talking to Catholic priests and

33
00:01:07.380 --> 00:01:09.079
Buddhist monks about artificial

34
00:01:09.080 --> 00:01:10.279
intelligence.

35
00:01:10.280 --> 00:01:11.819
We're going to talk to theologians

36
00:01:11.820 --> 00:01:13.759
and rabbis about whether a

37
00:01:13.760 --> 00:01:15.139
country can ever be morally

38
00:01:15.140 --> 00:01:17.499
justified in starting a war.

39
00:01:17.500 --> 00:01:19.359
For Labor Day weekend, we'll

40
00:01:19.360 --> 00:01:21.239
be dissecting what makes

41
00:01:21.240 --> 00:01:22.899
travel sacred.

42
00:01:22.900 --> 00:01:24.659
So please subscribe so you don't

43
00:01:24.660 --> 00:01:25.680
miss future episodes.

44
00:01:28.150 --> 00:01:30.149
Today, we're tackling the idea of

45
00:01:30.150 --> 00:01:32.069
moral voting, and we really wanted

46
00:01:32.070 --> 00:01:34.329
to do this as the first episode as

47
00:01:34.330 --> 00:01:36.689
midterm elections are looming.

48
00:01:36.690 --> 00:01:38.189
Many people have been voting in the

49
00:01:38.190 --> 00:01:39.149
primaries this summer.

50
00:01:39.150 --> 00:01:41.209
We have the big election coming

51
00:01:41.210 --> 00:01:42.549
up this November.

52
00:01:42.550 --> 00:01:43.909
And even if you're not following the

53
00:01:43.910 --> 00:01:45.289
news very closely, I think you're

54
00:01:45.290 --> 00:01:47.189
probably familiar with the morally

55
00:01:47.190 --> 00:01:49.049
questionable candidates we

56
00:01:49.050 --> 00:01:50.749
have seen from both sides of the

57
00:01:50.750 --> 00:01:52.569
aisle. We've had a Republican

58
00:01:52.570 --> 00:01:53.913
accused of domestic violence.

59
00:01:53.914 --> 00:01:54.914
A Democrat who's

60
00:01:55.880 --> 00:01:58.019
faced allegations of sexual assault

61
00:01:58.020 --> 00:01:59.119
and rape.

62
00:01:59.120 --> 00:02:00.839
And that's just in this electoral

63
00:02:00.840 --> 00:02:02.259
cycle.

64
00:02:02.260 --> 00:02:04.219
So we're constantly being asked

65
00:02:04.220 --> 00:02:06.339
to weigh our morals against

66
00:02:06.340 --> 00:02:08.299
our policy priorities.

67
00:02:08.300 --> 00:02:09.300
And how do you choose?

68
00:02:16.200 --> 00:02:17.559
There are two people that I was

69
00:02:17.560 --> 00:02:18.999
really looking forward to having

70
00:02:19.000 --> 00:02:20.979
this conversation with.

71
00:02:20.980 --> 00:02:22.459
Curtis Chang is an evangelical

72
00:02:22.460 --> 00:02:24.419
Christian, and before the 2024

73
00:02:24.420 --> 00:02:26.419
election, he helped start the

74
00:02:26.420 --> 00:02:28.339
After Party, a video and

75
00:02:28.340 --> 00:02:30.399
curriculum series, especially for

76
00:02:30.400 --> 00:02:32.399
evangelical Christian churches.

77
00:02:32.400 --> 00:02:34.059
And he's described it as a way to

78
00:02:34.060 --> 00:02:36.199
reframe our political identity away

79
00:02:36.200 --> 00:02:38.019
from the what of political

80
00:02:38.020 --> 00:02:39.999
positions and towards the how

81
00:02:40.000 --> 00:02:42.179
of being centered on Jesus.

82
00:02:42.180 --> 00:02:43.619
He is currently the founder and

83
00:02:43.620 --> 00:02:45.359
executive director of Good Faith and

84
00:02:45.360 --> 00:02:47.559
host of the Good Faith podcast

85
00:02:47.560 --> 00:02:49.679
and Rabbi Jill Jacobs.

86
00:02:49.680 --> 00:02:51.299
She's a rabbi whose work is to

87
00:02:51.300 --> 00:02:53.279
actually train and mobilize other

88
00:02:53.280 --> 00:02:55.179
rabbis, cantors or Jewish

89
00:02:55.180 --> 00:02:57.359
leaders to bring a more moral voice

90
00:02:57.360 --> 00:02:59.319
to protecting and advancing

91
00:02:59.320 --> 00:03:00.479
human rights.

92
00:03:00.480 --> 00:03:01.480
She's the CEO of

93
00:03:03.600 --> 00:03:04.600
T’ruah: The Rabbinic Call for Human Rights.

94
00:03:04.920 --> 00:03:06.759
Jill, Curtis, thank you for

95
00:03:06.760 --> 00:03:08.360
being with me. Welcome to Oh God Now

96
00:03:08.361 --> 00:03:09.039
What.

97
00:03:09.040 --> 00:03:10.479
Thank you so much for having me.

98
00:03:10.480 --> 00:03:11.659
Oh, it's great to be here.

99
00:03:11.660 --> 00:03:12.979
Thanks for having me.

100
00:03:12.980 --> 00:03:15.059
First, just because of

101
00:03:15.060 --> 00:03:16.999
the current climate of political

102
00:03:17.000 --> 00:03:18.959
polarization, can I just

103
00:03:18.960 --> 00:03:20.199
ask you guys to introduce

104
00:03:20.200 --> 00:03:21.019
yourselves?

105
00:03:21.020 --> 00:03:22.679
Curtis, I think people make a lot of

106
00:03:22.680 --> 00:03:24.759
assumptions about particularly

107
00:03:24.760 --> 00:03:26.699
especially evangelical Christians.

108
00:03:26.700 --> 00:03:28.499
And so I wonder if we can just start

109
00:03:28.500 --> 00:03:30.099
with you just explaining to people

110
00:03:30.100 --> 00:03:32.219
what you want people to know

111
00:03:32.220 --> 00:03:34.079
about your politics and

112
00:03:34.080 --> 00:03:36.139
your faith and better yet how you

113
00:03:36.140 --> 00:03:38.219
approach those two together.

114
00:03:38.220 --> 00:03:40.199
Well, I do think

115
00:03:40.200 --> 00:03:42.199
that as a Christian and as somebody

116
00:03:42.200 --> 00:03:44.279
who claims that

117
00:03:44.280 --> 00:03:46.179
Jesus is the Lord of my life,

118
00:03:46.180 --> 00:03:48.139
I can't section off

119
00:03:48.140 --> 00:03:50.039
my life and say, well, my faith

120
00:03:50.040 --> 00:03:51.579
has nothing to do with that.

121
00:03:51.580 --> 00:03:53.499
Jesus has nothing to with that, so

122
00:03:53.500 --> 00:03:55.459
politics I think is something

123
00:03:55.460 --> 00:03:57.379
that Christians ought to care about,

124
00:03:57.380 --> 00:03:59.399
but that word even

125
00:03:59.400 --> 00:04:00.939
politics needs to be really

126
00:04:00.940 --> 00:04:02.139
redefined.

127
00:04:02.140 --> 00:04:04.139
So one of my sense of

128
00:04:04.140 --> 00:04:06.439
calling in I work here is

129
00:04:06.440 --> 00:04:07.440
to help Christians broaden their

130
00:04:08.740 --> 00:04:11.399
very understanding of politics,

131
00:04:11.400 --> 00:04:13.459
certainly to include voting, but to

132
00:04:13.460 --> 00:04:15.219
actually encompass a far greater

133
00:04:15.220 --> 00:04:16.220
range of concerns.

134
00:04:17.189 --> 00:04:18.609
Rabbi Jacobs, how are you entering

135
00:04:18.610 --> 00:04:19.549
this conversation?

136
00:04:19.550 --> 00:04:20.749
What do you want people to know

137
00:04:20.750 --> 00:04:22.169
about you and your work?

138
00:04:22.170 --> 00:04:24.009
Thanks. Well, professionally, I am a

139
00:04:24.010 --> 00:04:26.609
rabbi and I'm the CEO of T’ruah,

140
00:04:26.610 --> 00:04:28.169
but really echoing something that

141
00:04:28.170 --> 00:04:30.129
Curtis said, as a religious

142
00:04:30.130 --> 00:04:32.109
Jew, I live my life according to

143
00:04:32.110 --> 00:04:33.569
Halakha, which is a word that's

144
00:04:33.570 --> 00:04:35.409
usually translated as Jewish

145
00:04:35.410 --> 00:04:37.309
law, but it actually comes from

146
00:04:37.310 --> 00:04:38.909
the word lalechet, which means to

147
00:04:38.910 --> 00:04:40.449
walk. So it's about how you walk

148
00:04:40.450 --> 00:04:41.629
through the world.

149
00:04:41.630 --> 00:04:43.749
Not only ritual practices like

150
00:04:43.750 --> 00:04:45.569
what I might eat or what I may not

151
00:04:45.570 --> 00:04:47.529
eat, but also

152
00:04:47.530 --> 00:04:49.469
practices like, how do you set up

153
00:04:49.470 --> 00:04:51.359
courts of law?

154
00:04:51.360 --> 00:04:53.279
How do you think about using your

155
00:04:53.280 --> 00:04:54.559
money in a responsible way?

156
00:04:54.560 --> 00:04:56.519
And I think about my life as an

157
00:04:56.520 --> 00:04:58.619
integrated Jewish life where there's

158
00:04:58.620 --> 00:05:00.439
not a single area of my life or

159
00:05:00.440 --> 00:05:02.359
my decision-making on the daily

160
00:05:02.360 --> 00:05:04.479
basis that is not touched by

161
00:05:04.480 --> 00:05:06.379
my Judaism and my commitment to

162
00:05:06.380 --> 00:05:08.509
live within the system of Halakha.

163
00:05:08.510 --> 00:05:10.569
I should introduce myself also just

164
00:05:10.570 --> 00:05:12.009
because the people who know me as a

165
00:05:12.010 --> 00:05:13.249
journalist don't know my faith

166
00:05:13.250 --> 00:05:15.069
background and I should say I am

167
00:05:15.070 --> 00:05:16.989
a Christian, you know, I am fourth

168
00:05:16.990 --> 00:05:19.409
generation Presbyterian,

169
00:05:19.410 --> 00:05:21.389
grew up in a more evangelical side

170
00:05:21.390 --> 00:05:23.429
of the Presbytian Church, and now

171
00:05:23.430 --> 00:05:26.129
I'm an ordained elder in the PCUSA.

172
00:05:26.130 --> 00:05:28.069
And so I think from my

173
00:05:28.070 --> 00:05:30.049
framework of how I approach my faith

174
00:05:30.050 --> 00:05:31.949
in life, I do think it comes from a

175
00:05:31.950 --> 00:05:33.881
very reformed, capital R,

176
00:05:33.882 --> 00:05:35.669
Christian perspective of just sort

177
00:05:35.670 --> 00:05:36.670
of looking at the world and

178
00:05:38.229 --> 00:05:40.049
understanding where my

179
00:05:40.050 --> 00:05:41.369
faith is applied.

180
00:05:41.370 --> 00:05:42.589
It's not something, as a journalist,

181
00:05:42.590 --> 00:05:43.769
that's why I think this show is a

182
00:05:43.770 --> 00:05:44.909
little bit different for me.

183
00:05:44.910 --> 00:05:46.309
It's something that I've ever talked

184
00:05:46.310 --> 00:05:48.129
about on any of the other shows I've

185
00:05:48.130 --> 00:05:49.869
been a part of, but I want everyone

186
00:05:49.870 --> 00:05:51.249
to know the background where I'm

187
00:05:51.250 --> 00:05:53.109
coming from as well.

188
00:05:53.110 --> 00:05:55.329
I think part of what we wanna do

189
00:05:55.330 --> 00:05:57.349
with Oh God Now What is also get

190
00:05:57.350 --> 00:05:59.189
beyond the superficial

191
00:05:59.190 --> 00:06:01.889
and get into more of the nuance.

192
00:06:01.890 --> 00:06:04.089
Curtis, you have a podcast that's

193
00:06:04.090 --> 00:06:05.979
called Good Faith and

194
00:06:05.980 --> 00:06:07.319
I was struck by something you said

195
00:06:07.320 --> 00:06:08.499
on it.

196
00:06:08.500 --> 00:06:09.719
As we think about the midterm

197
00:06:09.720 --> 00:06:11.659
elections, you likened

198
00:06:11.660 --> 00:06:13.319
it to Jenga.

199
00:06:13.320 --> 00:06:15.799
Can you explain to me why

200
00:06:15.800 --> 00:06:18.039
you think it's like we're

201
00:06:18.040 --> 00:06:19.469
playing Jenga?

202
00:06:19.470 --> 00:06:21.149
Well, what I meant by that is the

203
00:06:21.150 --> 00:06:22.749
sense that we are living in this

204
00:06:22.750 --> 00:06:24.849
very fragile context right

205
00:06:24.850 --> 00:06:26.729
now, where it feels like, you

206
00:06:26.730 --> 00:06:28.949
know, the next election

207
00:06:28.950 --> 00:06:30.889
will bring about collapse, that

208
00:06:30.890 --> 00:06:32.649
everything is riding on this move.

209
00:06:32.650 --> 00:06:34.129
You know, how you play Jenga.

210
00:06:34.130 --> 00:06:35.909
It's like you're waiting for that

211
00:06:35.910 --> 00:06:37.689
one piece to get pulled and

212
00:06:37.690 --> 00:06:38.769
everything collapses.

213
00:06:38.770 --> 00:06:40.709
And that sense that we're on the

214
00:06:40.710 --> 00:06:42.589
verge of that one-piece, I think

215
00:06:42.590 --> 00:06:44.209
is fairly widespread.

216
00:06:44.210 --> 00:06:46.049
I mean, the sense of, you now,

217
00:06:46.050 --> 00:06:47.989
apocalyptic kind of

218
00:06:47.990 --> 00:06:49.969
mindset towards the next election.

219
00:06:49.970 --> 00:06:52.189
And I actually think that's not

220
00:06:52.190 --> 00:06:54.449
actually accurate nor a helpful

221
00:06:54.450 --> 00:06:56.289
perspective to have because it puts

222
00:06:56.290 --> 00:06:58.369
you essentially in this fearful

223
00:06:58.370 --> 00:07:00.269
defensive posture.

224
00:07:00.270 --> 00:07:02.149
And it also kind of puts you in a

225
00:07:02.150 --> 00:07:04.109
passive posture because you're

226
00:07:04.110 --> 00:07:05.589
thinking that there's nothing you

227
00:07:05.590 --> 00:07:08.069
can do to actually strengthen the

228
00:07:08.070 --> 00:07:08.929
structure, if you will.

229
00:07:08.930 --> 00:07:11.009
And actually, that's our calling,

230
00:07:11.010 --> 00:07:12.369
certainly as Christians, to be a

231
00:07:12.370 --> 00:07:13.689
blessing to the common good.

232
00:07:13.690 --> 00:07:15.869
It's not just to prevent or

233
00:07:15.870 --> 00:07:17.159
wait for some.

234
00:07:17.160 --> 00:07:19.479
Disaster that we particularly fear,

235
00:07:19.480 --> 00:07:21.899
like, how do we add pieces to

236
00:07:21.900 --> 00:07:23.349
the structure?

237
00:07:23.350 --> 00:07:24.989
If the stakes are that high, does

238
00:07:24.990 --> 00:07:26.989
that mean you make different choices

239
00:07:26.990 --> 00:07:29.029
when it comes to who

240
00:07:29.030 --> 00:07:30.429
you're gonna vote for?

241
00:07:30.430 --> 00:07:31.909
Because if you think about voting

242
00:07:31.910 --> 00:07:33.729
for President Trump and the

243
00:07:33.730 --> 00:07:35.729
ramifications of that for

244
00:07:35.730 --> 00:07:37.809
American democracy,

245
00:07:37.810 --> 00:07:39.749
for the country, do you

246
00:07:39.750 --> 00:07:41.929
make different choices if you think

247
00:07:41.930 --> 00:07:43.909
the stakes are higher, I guess is my

248
00:07:43.910 --> 00:07:44.869
question.

249
00:07:44.870 --> 00:07:46.529
Yeah, I mean, I think the stakes are

250
00:07:46.530 --> 00:07:47.889
really high right now.

251
00:07:47.890 --> 00:07:49.709
And also, when we look

252
00:07:49.710 --> 00:07:50.929
back through history, there have

253
00:07:50.930 --> 00:07:52.369
been these really crucial moments

254
00:07:52.370 --> 00:07:53.729
that we can look back and say

255
00:07:53.730 --> 00:07:55.729
either, thank God somebody made that

256
00:07:55.730 --> 00:07:57.589
choice or, wow,

257
00:07:57.590 --> 00:07:59.009
I wish I could go back and rewrite

258
00:07:59.010 --> 00:08:00.969
that. And so this is

259
00:08:00.970 --> 00:08:02.729
a really crucial election, but I

260
00:08:02.730 --> 00:08:04.749
also don't wanna get into a

261
00:08:04.750 --> 00:08:06.729
place of saying, well, this is it.

262
00:08:06.730 --> 00:08:08.549
If it doesn't go the way that you

263
00:08:08.550 --> 00:08:10.499
might want it to go or...

264
00:08:10.500 --> 00:08:12.539
If the next thing happens

265
00:08:12.540 --> 00:08:14.419
to weaken American democracy, then

266
00:08:14.420 --> 00:08:16.159
the whole project of America is

267
00:08:16.160 --> 00:08:17.239
over. I think we can look back

268
00:08:17.240 --> 00:08:18.459
through history and we can see that

269
00:08:18.460 --> 00:08:20.579
there's ups and downs,

270
00:08:20.580 --> 00:08:22.839
but we certainly can't say,

271
00:08:22.840 --> 00:08:24.209
okay, I give up.

272
00:08:24.210 --> 00:08:26.609
My take on this is that this

273
00:08:26.610 --> 00:08:28.509
perspective of the, to

274
00:08:28.510 --> 00:08:29.869
use your title of your podcast,

275
00:08:29.870 --> 00:08:31.369
we're in a, "oh God now what"

276
00:08:31.370 --> 00:08:33.288
political moment or a

277
00:08:33.289 --> 00:08:35.288
Jenga moment, as I said, is

278
00:08:35.289 --> 00:08:37.629
precisely why we cannot simply

279
00:08:37.630 --> 00:08:40.168
reduce politics to the vote.

280
00:08:40.169 --> 00:08:42.189
The reality is if

281
00:08:42.190 --> 00:08:44.049
you want to contribute

282
00:08:44.050 --> 00:08:46.829
to the outcome of American politics.

283
00:08:46.830 --> 00:08:48.709
And you think that that is just your

284
00:08:48.710 --> 00:08:50.749
vote that you cast every four years

285
00:08:50.750 --> 00:08:51.949
for a president.

286
00:08:51.950 --> 00:08:53.629
Unless you live in seven states,

287
00:08:53.630 --> 00:08:55.369
your vote practically has zero

288
00:08:55.370 --> 00:08:56.269
impact.

289
00:08:56.270 --> 00:08:58.089
Anyway, unless you live in Arizona,

290
00:08:58.090 --> 00:09:00.349
Georgia, Nevada, North Carolina,

291
00:09:00.350 --> 00:09:01.509
Michigan, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin.

292
00:09:01.510 --> 00:09:03.009
So any listener who doesn't live in

293
00:09:03.010 --> 00:09:04.889
one of those seven states your

294
00:09:04.890 --> 00:09:07.069
vote for all intensive purposes has

295
00:09:07.070 --> 00:09:08.889
almost no chance of affecting

296
00:09:08.890 --> 00:09:09.869
the outcome. And even if you live

297
00:09:09.870 --> 00:09:11.229
one of the states it's like a

298
00:09:11.230 --> 00:09:12.129
minuscule impact.

299
00:09:12.130 --> 00:09:14.009
So I am not saying don't vote,

300
00:09:14.010 --> 00:09:15.019
please vote.

301
00:09:15.020 --> 00:09:17.179
But if you are saying my life as

302
00:09:17.180 --> 00:09:19.019
a contributor to our greater

303
00:09:19.020 --> 00:09:20.939
society, my political

304
00:09:20.940 --> 00:09:22.999
life, broadly defined, is only

305
00:09:23.000 --> 00:09:25.379
exercise every four years,

306
00:09:25.380 --> 00:09:27.299
you've reduced your life as

307
00:09:27.300 --> 00:09:29.279
a political being to almost

308
00:09:29.280 --> 00:09:30.959
inconsequential fashion.

309
00:09:30.960 --> 00:09:32.499
And this is where I think if you

310
00:09:32.500 --> 00:09:33.939
want to actually contribute and

311
00:09:33.940 --> 00:09:35.699
strengthen the society, strengthen

312
00:09:35.700 --> 00:09:36.859
the fabric, strengthen the

313
00:09:36.860 --> 00:09:39.159
structure, my thing

314
00:09:39.160 --> 00:09:40.219
that I'm really trying to call

315
00:09:40.220 --> 00:09:42.239
people to is to invest

316
00:09:42.240 --> 00:09:43.129
locally.

317
00:09:43.130 --> 00:09:44.949
That that is where you can actually

318
00:09:44.950 --> 00:09:46.049
make a difference.

319
00:09:46.050 --> 00:09:48.009
And that politics happens in

320
00:09:48.010 --> 00:09:49.969
its most directly impactful way for

321
00:09:49.970 --> 00:09:51.969
most people in local politics.

322
00:09:51.970 --> 00:09:53.169
And I don't even mean local

323
00:09:53.170 --> 00:09:54.349
electoral politics.

324
00:09:54.350 --> 00:09:55.829
I mean the state of your schools,

325
00:09:55.830 --> 00:09:58.109
your parks, your police department,

326
00:09:58.110 --> 00:09:59.949
how you're caring for the immigrants

327
00:09:59.950 --> 00:10:01.949
arriving in your own city,

328
00:10:01.950 --> 00:10:03.289
your policy on the homelessness.

329
00:10:03.290 --> 00:10:05.509
Those are all political

330
00:10:05.510 --> 00:10:07.309
issues. They are about the Greeks

331
00:10:07.310 --> 00:10:09.229
would call the polis, the community

332
00:10:09.230 --> 00:10:11.049
that you live in, the greater

333
00:10:11.050 --> 00:10:12.799
good. And so.

334
00:10:12.800 --> 00:10:14.139
I think where we can live out our

335
00:10:14.140 --> 00:10:16.339
faith most powerfully is

336
00:10:16.340 --> 00:10:18.679
if we certainly vote,

337
00:10:18.680 --> 00:10:20.519
but we actually devote more of

338
00:10:20.520 --> 00:10:23.069
our energy to our local communities.

339
00:10:23.070 --> 00:10:24.569
Well, I want to say that, you know,

340
00:10:24.570 --> 00:10:25.889
neither Judaism nor I think any

341
00:10:25.890 --> 00:10:27.129
other religion, though I can't speak

342
00:10:27.130 --> 00:10:28.909
for others, is partisan, meaning

343
00:10:28.910 --> 00:10:30.569
that you can't open up the Torah and

344
00:10:30.570 --> 00:10:32.509
it's not going to tell you vote for

345
00:10:32.510 --> 00:10:33.929
this party or the other party

346
00:10:33.930 --> 00:10:36.709
because those parties didn't exist.

347
00:10:36.710 --> 00:10:38.829
And Torah is eternal and

348
00:10:38.830 --> 00:10:41.329
forms of government come and go and

349
00:10:41.330 --> 00:10:42.569
different parties and different

350
00:10:42.570 --> 00:10:44.429
elected leaders come and go.

351
00:10:44.430 --> 00:10:46.409
But what does stay are the

352
00:10:46.410 --> 00:10:48.229
values. So even the very

353
00:10:48.230 --> 00:10:49.709
first thing that the Torah tells us

354
00:10:49.710 --> 00:10:50.799
about...

355
00:10:50.800 --> 00:10:52.379
Human beings as it were created in

356
00:10:52.380 --> 00:10:53.499
the image of God. It's right there

357
00:10:53.500 --> 00:10:55.899
in chapter one.

358
00:10:55.900 --> 00:10:58.059
And much of the rest of the

359
00:10:58.060 --> 00:10:59.959
Torah and of the Jewish Bible

360
00:10:59.960 --> 00:11:02.319
and of Jewish law codes, et cetera,

361
00:11:02.320 --> 00:11:03.759
is trying to figure out how you put

362
00:11:03.760 --> 00:11:04.739
it into practice, right?

363
00:11:04.740 --> 00:11:06.119
It's not enough to just say, be nice

364
00:11:06.120 --> 00:11:07.519
to each other. Like that doesn't get

365
00:11:07.520 --> 00:11:08.839
very far.

366
00:11:08.840 --> 00:11:10.739
And so a lot of

367
00:11:10.740 --> 00:11:13.099
the tradition is about

368
00:11:13.100 --> 00:11:15.039
setting up laws about, okay,

369
00:11:15.040 --> 00:11:17.119
well, how do you set up fair

370
00:11:17.120 --> 00:11:18.879
courts of justice, for example?

371
00:11:18.880 --> 00:11:20.819
What are the rules for judges?

372
00:11:20.820 --> 00:11:22.259
How do you make sure that there's a

373
00:11:22.260 --> 00:11:24.459
social safety net in your community?

374
00:11:24.460 --> 00:11:26.279
How do we make sure that every

375
00:11:26.280 --> 00:11:28.039
community is the most just place

376
00:11:28.040 --> 00:11:29.719
possible for the largest number of

377
00:11:29.720 --> 00:11:31.479
people is a place where people will

378
00:11:31.480 --> 00:11:33.319
be treated like they're images

379
00:11:33.320 --> 00:11:35.179
of God. And so I really wanna go

380
00:11:35.180 --> 00:11:37.219
back to that and say that people

381
00:11:37.220 --> 00:11:38.519
look for religious communities in

382
00:11:38.520 --> 00:11:39.619
all sorts of different ways, but I

383
00:11:39.620 --> 00:11:41.559
think that something that many

384
00:11:41.560 --> 00:11:43.499
of our religious traditions bring to

385
00:11:43.500 --> 00:11:45.419
the table is that we are rooted in

386
00:11:45.420 --> 00:11:46.719
values and that we should be making

387
00:11:46.720 --> 00:11:48.899
our decisions both politically

388
00:11:48.900 --> 00:11:50.919
and otherwise based on values.

389
00:11:50.920 --> 00:11:52.379
It's not just about pick your

390
00:11:52.380 --> 00:11:53.629
political team.

391
00:11:53.630 --> 00:11:55.649
I think what Rabbi

392
00:11:55.650 --> 00:11:57.809
Jacobs stated is also very

393
00:11:57.810 --> 00:11:59.829
much kind of a primary

394
00:11:59.830 --> 00:12:02.609
value for Christians.

395
00:12:02.610 --> 00:12:04.689
The Genesis account where we are

396
00:12:04.690 --> 00:12:05.969
told we are made in the image of God

397
00:12:05.970 --> 00:12:07.629
is part of our scriptures also and

398
00:12:07.630 --> 00:12:08.849
it's foundational.

399
00:12:08.850 --> 00:12:11.049
I would add onto that Jesus'

400
00:12:11.050 --> 00:12:12.969
interpretation of

401
00:12:12.970 --> 00:12:14.609
the scriptures, the Hebrew

402
00:12:14.610 --> 00:12:16.309
scriptures of His day.

403
00:12:16.310 --> 00:12:18.409
He pulled out as

404
00:12:18.410 --> 00:12:20.669
the two greatest things that are

405
00:12:20.670 --> 00:12:22.269
most important, are foundational.

406
00:12:22.270 --> 00:12:23.469
You know, love God with all your

407
00:12:23.470 --> 00:12:24.470
heart, mind, soul, body,

408
00:12:25.520 --> 00:12:27.439
and the second is love your

409
00:12:27.440 --> 00:12:29.219
neighbor as yourself.

410
00:12:29.220 --> 00:12:31.059
And so not to keep banging on

411
00:12:31.060 --> 00:12:33.139
this drum, but when Jesus

412
00:12:33.140 --> 00:12:35.799
says love your neighbor as

413
00:12:35.800 --> 00:12:37.799
yourself, he's directing you

414
00:12:37.800 --> 00:12:39.659
to a neighborhood level of

415
00:12:39.660 --> 00:12:40.539
concern.

416
00:12:40.540 --> 00:12:42.399
That the neighbor around you, the

417
00:12:42.400 --> 00:12:44.259
people you live with, the community

418
00:12:44.260 --> 00:12:46.239
where you have your parks together,

419
00:12:46.240 --> 00:12:48.659
that is the most direct,

420
00:12:48.660 --> 00:12:50.379
immediate place where you can show

421
00:12:50.380 --> 00:12:51.299
love.

422
00:12:51.300 --> 00:12:53.199
And I would say showing love is

423
00:12:53.200 --> 00:12:55.129
another way to say, treat people

424
00:12:55.130 --> 00:12:55.989
in the image of God.

425
00:12:55.990 --> 00:12:57.909
And so I think we need to

426
00:12:57.910 --> 00:12:59.729
get back to what Jesus meant

427
00:12:59.730 --> 00:13:01.029
by that, that our neighborhood

428
00:13:01.030 --> 00:13:03.169
matters, versus some imagined

429
00:13:03.170 --> 00:13:05.529
partisan opponent out

430
00:13:05.530 --> 00:13:06.949
there that we don't actually know,

431
00:13:06.950 --> 00:13:08.929
but we only see sort of news reports

432
00:13:08.930 --> 00:13:11.069
or their posts on social media.

433
00:13:11.070 --> 00:13:13.109
That person is not actually your

434
00:13:13.110 --> 00:13:15.229
neighbor in a very embodied

435
00:13:15.230 --> 00:13:16.149
direct sense.

436
00:13:16.150 --> 00:13:18.209
And so, I think the more we

437
00:13:18.210 --> 00:13:19.649
get back into our neighborhood, the

438
00:13:19.650 --> 00:13:21.199
less partisan we'll be.

439
00:13:21.200 --> 00:13:23.179
So, I just am kind of

440
00:13:23.180 --> 00:13:25.059
reflecting on the idea of love

441
00:13:25.060 --> 00:13:26.779
and very much hearing what you're

442
00:13:26.780 --> 00:13:28.679
saying, Curtis, about neighborhoods

443
00:13:28.680 --> 00:13:30.639
and investing at the local

444
00:13:30.640 --> 00:13:31.640
level.

445
00:13:32.360 --> 00:13:34.159
Jill, can I start with you and then

446
00:13:34.160 --> 00:13:36.079
Curtis, can you respond about

447
00:13:36.080 --> 00:13:38.099
what standards you use

448
00:13:38.100 --> 00:13:40.599
when you're starting to think about,

449
00:13:40.600 --> 00:13:42.819
do you have like a character test?

450
00:13:42.820 --> 00:13:44.579
Like is that the first thing you do?

451
00:13:44.580 --> 00:13:45.879
Jill, are you thinking about how

452
00:13:45.880 --> 00:13:47.409
just they are?

453
00:13:47.410 --> 00:13:49.889
Yeah, I do think about, as I said,

454
00:13:49.890 --> 00:13:51.589
the values and what values this

455
00:13:51.590 --> 00:13:53.589
person stands for and

456
00:13:53.590 --> 00:13:55.289
whether they're likely to vote in

457
00:13:55.290 --> 00:13:56.509
line with what I think my values

458
00:13:56.510 --> 00:13:57.329
are.

459
00:13:57.330 --> 00:13:58.929
When I think about a character test,

460
00:13:58.930 --> 00:14:00.889
I don't need a elected official

461
00:14:00.890 --> 00:14:02.349
who I want to go out for a beer

462
00:14:02.350 --> 00:14:03.769
with. I don t need to be friends

463
00:14:03.770 --> 00:14:05.069
with this person.

464
00:14:05.070 --> 00:14:07.749
I want to believe that they are

465
00:14:07.750 --> 00:14:10.069
somebody who is not corrupt,

466
00:14:10.070 --> 00:14:11.689
who is trustworthy, who's not going

467
00:14:11.690 --> 00:14:13.729
to be taking advantage

468
00:14:13.730 --> 00:14:15.329
of their position.

469
00:14:16.340 --> 00:14:18.779
This is something also that

470
00:14:18.780 --> 00:14:20.719
Judaism has a lot to say about it

471
00:14:20.720 --> 00:14:22.699
because we have a lot of stories of

472
00:14:22.700 --> 00:14:24.559
kings who did take advantage

473
00:14:24.560 --> 00:14:26.059
of their position and a lot of

474
00:14:26.060 --> 00:14:27.999
warnings in the

475
00:14:28.000 --> 00:14:29.879
Jewish Bible even before the people

476
00:14:29.880 --> 00:14:31.259
get a king.

477
00:14:31.260 --> 00:14:32.719
So I'm thinking about the first time

478
00:14:32.720 --> 00:14:34.579
that the possibility of

479
00:14:34.580 --> 00:14:36.619
a king is really talked about

480
00:14:36.620 --> 00:14:38.859
in the book of Deuteronomy,

481
00:14:38.860 --> 00:14:40.959
but it says basically like this king

482
00:14:40.960 --> 00:14:42.829
can't amass so much money and

483
00:14:42.830 --> 00:14:45.379
they can't amass so many horses.

484
00:14:45.380 --> 00:14:47.399
And they can't amass women,

485
00:14:47.400 --> 00:14:48.839
right? These are the things that

486
00:14:48.840 --> 00:14:50.079
kings do.

487
00:14:50.080 --> 00:14:52.159
I'm talking about the classic kings,

488
00:14:52.160 --> 00:14:53.879
right. And actually what this king

489
00:14:53.880 --> 00:14:54.999
is supposed to do is they're

490
00:14:55.000 --> 00:14:56.799
supposed to write a scroll of Torah

491
00:14:56.800 --> 00:14:58.199
for themselves and they're suppose

492
00:14:58.200 --> 00:14:59.299
to study it.

493
00:14:59.300 --> 00:15:01.259
They're basically the symbol

494
00:15:01.260 --> 00:15:03.079
of how you use

495
00:15:03.080 --> 00:15:05.059
your power to worship God as opposed

496
00:15:05.060 --> 00:15:07.479
to just to accumulate

497
00:15:07.480 --> 00:15:09.279
wealth and power for yourself, which

498
00:15:09.280 --> 00:15:11.179
is a long way around to saying that

499
00:15:11.180 --> 00:15:12.499
I would hope that an elected

500
00:15:12.500 --> 00:15:14.279
official understands that their task

501
00:15:14.280 --> 00:15:15.129
is.

502
00:15:15.130 --> 00:15:16.849
To serve the people, that it's

503
00:15:16.850 --> 00:15:18.889
public service, it's to represent

504
00:15:18.890 --> 00:15:20.029
their constituents.

505
00:15:20.030 --> 00:15:21.329
This is very much the role of the

506
00:15:21.330 --> 00:15:22.489
prophets in the Bible, but I think

507
00:15:22.490 --> 00:15:24.549
it's the role of all of us to hold

508
00:15:24.550 --> 00:15:26.089
them to it and to continue to say,

509
00:15:26.090 --> 00:15:27.649
wait, this is what's right, I'm

510
00:15:27.650 --> 00:15:28.969
gonna remind you of it, I'm going to

511
00:15:28.970 --> 00:15:30.869
keep poking you, even when it's

512
00:15:30.870 --> 00:15:31.649
uncomfortable.

513
00:15:31.650 --> 00:15:33.109
We can't just say, oh, I elected the

514
00:15:33.110 --> 00:15:34.929
person I really think is great, and

515
00:15:34.930 --> 00:15:36.709
now I'm just gonna go back into my

516
00:15:36.710 --> 00:15:37.069
hole.

517
00:15:37.070 --> 00:15:39.409
I would go back to the

518
00:15:39.410 --> 00:15:41.549
belief that love is primary,

519
00:15:41.550 --> 00:15:44.069
that love the highest good that

520
00:15:44.070 --> 00:15:46.169
we can seek to advance.

521
00:15:46.170 --> 00:15:48.049
And the reality of love is

522
00:15:48.050 --> 00:15:49.569
it is personal.

523
00:15:49.570 --> 00:15:51.769
Love is about personal

524
00:15:51.770 --> 00:15:54.469
character, personal relations,

525
00:15:54.470 --> 00:15:57.529
and it's issues, policies,

526
00:15:57.530 --> 00:15:59.089
hot takes on things.

527
00:15:59.090 --> 00:16:00.269
I'm not saying they don't matter,

528
00:16:00.270 --> 00:16:01.709
but they don't love.

529
00:16:01.710 --> 00:16:03.669
And so I actually believe

530
00:16:03.670 --> 00:16:05.689
when you vote, you ought to actually

531
00:16:05.690 --> 00:16:07.569
consider does this person

532
00:16:07.570 --> 00:16:09.389
move our society and move

533
00:16:09.390 --> 00:16:11.489
our culture towards greater love

534
00:16:11.490 --> 00:16:12.709
or lesser love.

535
00:16:12.710 --> 00:16:14.869
Now that includes perhaps the

536
00:16:14.870 --> 00:16:16.429
issues that and the stances they

537
00:16:16.430 --> 00:16:17.969
take as more loving or less loving

538
00:16:17.970 --> 00:16:19.609
but I actually really do believe

539
00:16:19.610 --> 00:16:21.529
character matters like a leader

540
00:16:21.530 --> 00:16:23.069
influences culture.

541
00:16:23.070 --> 00:16:25.069
They set the terms for what is

542
00:16:25.070 --> 00:16:26.549
acceptable discourse, acceptable

543
00:16:26.550 --> 00:16:28.569
behavior and I

544
00:16:28.570 --> 00:16:30.829
want a you know just to

545
00:16:30.830 --> 00:16:32.429
bring it to the you know national

546
00:16:32.430 --> 00:16:35.249
level I want president that

547
00:16:35.250 --> 00:16:37.029
reflects love then that moves our

548
00:16:37.030 --> 00:16:38.509
culture towards greater love and I'm

549
00:16:38.510 --> 00:16:40.329
willing to disagree I'm going to

550
00:16:40.330 --> 00:16:42.509
have that president to have policies

551
00:16:42.510 --> 00:16:44.449
or issues that I disagree with

552
00:16:44.450 --> 00:16:46.209
because you know what actually it is

553
00:16:46.210 --> 00:16:48.269
the cultural influence that's

554
00:16:48.270 --> 00:16:50.049
that emanates out from a president

555
00:16:50.050 --> 00:16:51.689
that I think has far more lasting

556
00:16:51.690 --> 00:16:53.629
impact than any specific

557
00:16:53.630 --> 00:16:55.549
Issue or policy politics

558
00:16:55.550 --> 00:16:57.918
is downstream from culture

559
00:16:57.919 --> 00:16:58.779
Everything both of you are

560
00:16:58.780 --> 00:17:00.979
describing seems completely

561
00:17:00.980 --> 00:17:02.579
countercultural to the way that we

562
00:17:02.580 --> 00:17:04.439
think about politics.

563
00:17:04.440 --> 00:17:06.539
And even I would say the way that we

564
00:17:06.540 --> 00:17:07.939
journalists cover politics, right?

565
00:17:07.940 --> 00:17:10.519
We think about single issue voters.

566
00:17:10.520 --> 00:17:11.739
I don't know that that really

567
00:17:11.740 --> 00:17:13.959
exists, but I do think

568
00:17:13.960 --> 00:17:16.879
Curtis, you're saying basically,

569
00:17:16.880 --> 00:17:17.959
and tell me if I'm understanding you

570
00:17:17.960 --> 00:17:19.578
correctly, you're seeing it

571
00:17:19.579 --> 00:17:21.719
shouldn't be like abortion

572
00:17:21.720 --> 00:17:23.586
or LGBT or whatever,

573
00:17:25.290 --> 00:17:26.909
I'm trying to think of hot but trans

574
00:17:26.910 --> 00:17:28.568
rights issues and this is how I

575
00:17:28.569 --> 00:17:30.029
vote. Is that what you're saying?

576
00:17:30.030 --> 00:17:31.549
Like we shouldn't just pick a single

577
00:17:31.550 --> 00:17:32.549
issue.

578
00:17:32.550 --> 00:17:34.009
Am I understanding that correctly?

579
00:17:34.010 --> 00:17:35.849
Yeah, I think issues matter, but

580
00:17:35.850 --> 00:17:37.509
I think character matters more.

581
00:17:37.510 --> 00:17:39.349
And I would absolutely

582
00:17:39.350 --> 00:17:41.609
choose somebody of a high moral

583
00:17:41.610 --> 00:17:43.429
character that reflects the values

584
00:17:43.430 --> 00:17:45.369
of love and might

585
00:17:45.370 --> 00:17:46.569
disagree on the issues.

586
00:17:46.570 --> 00:17:48.589
I would choose that person.

587
00:17:48.590 --> 00:17:50.909
I mean, here would be like,

588
00:17:50.910 --> 00:17:52.849
if you wanna reduce this down

589
00:17:52.850 --> 00:17:54.829
to a character

590
00:17:54.830 --> 00:17:56.689
level of a litmus test, right?

591
00:17:56.690 --> 00:17:58.689
I would sort of say, well,

592
00:17:58.690 --> 00:18:00.529
would I trust this person to babysit

593
00:18:00.530 --> 00:18:01.649
my kid?

594
00:18:01.650 --> 00:18:03.389
Because that tells me something.

595
00:18:03.390 --> 00:18:04.469
Do they have integrity?

596
00:18:04.470 --> 00:18:06.209
Will they say, do what they say?

597
00:18:06.210 --> 00:18:07.469
Or if something bad happens, will

598
00:18:07.470 --> 00:18:08.869
they show courage?

599
00:18:08.870 --> 00:18:10.789
Can I essentially trust them

600
00:18:10.790 --> 00:18:12.369
to love my children?

601
00:18:12.370 --> 00:18:13.749
That's a meaningful, that's now

602
00:18:13.750 --> 00:18:15.029
obviously I don't know them

603
00:18:15.030 --> 00:18:16.349
personally. I have to just get some

604
00:18:16.350 --> 00:18:18.309
clues. I'm observing their behavior.

605
00:18:18.310 --> 00:18:19.989
I'm observing how they react to the

606
00:18:19.990 --> 00:18:22.069
people that they do interact with,

607
00:18:22.070 --> 00:18:23.070
including reporters.

608
00:18:24.010 --> 00:18:25.549
What the history of their personal

609
00:18:25.550 --> 00:18:25.749
relationships.

610
00:18:25.750 --> 00:18:27.189
We're not high on the love list.

611
00:18:27.190 --> 00:18:28.309
Let me just put it that way.

612
00:18:29.390 --> 00:18:30.569
You should be, you guys are doing a

613
00:18:30.570 --> 00:18:31.729
very important thing.

614
00:18:31.730 --> 00:18:33.909
But to me, that that really matters.

615
00:18:33.910 --> 00:18:35.809
Again, I am not saying issues

616
00:18:35.810 --> 00:18:37.749
don't matter, but to

617
00:18:37.750 --> 00:18:39.589
boil everything down to one issue is

618
00:18:39.590 --> 00:18:41.449
such a narrow slice of life.

619
00:18:41.450 --> 00:18:43.409
And the reality is, you know,

620
00:18:43.410 --> 00:18:45.349
if you follow the teachings

621
00:18:45.350 --> 00:18:47.289
of Jesus, you're going to end up

622
00:18:47.290 --> 00:18:49.289
on all sorts of issues

623
00:18:49.290 --> 00:18:51.309
differently and also

624
00:18:51.310 --> 00:18:52.909
disagree with other Christians of

625
00:18:52.910 --> 00:18:54.309
good faith on what's the right

626
00:18:54.310 --> 00:18:55.829
interpretation. Like Rabbi Jacob

627
00:18:55.830 --> 00:18:57.329
said, there's no straight line you

628
00:18:57.330 --> 00:18:58.179
can draw.

629
00:18:58.180 --> 00:19:00.059
From any of our religious

630
00:19:00.060 --> 00:19:01.419
teachings that we're talking about

631
00:19:01.420 --> 00:19:03.619
here to any issue,

632
00:19:03.620 --> 00:19:05.159
but you can draw a pretty straight

633
00:19:05.160 --> 00:19:07.399
line to the kind of person that

634
00:19:07.400 --> 00:19:09.379
actually is somebody who bears

635
00:19:09.380 --> 00:19:11.239
the image of God and who

636
00:19:11.240 --> 00:19:12.829
embodies love.

637
00:19:12.830 --> 00:19:15.009
So Curtis, can you talk about like

638
00:19:15.010 --> 00:19:17.409
immigration or abortion

639
00:19:17.410 --> 00:19:19.349
or the death penalty?

640
00:19:19.350 --> 00:19:21.549
And can you just sort of say where

641
00:19:21.550 --> 00:19:23.389
those things as we're just

642
00:19:23.390 --> 00:19:25.389
to parse out like the

643
00:19:25.390 --> 00:19:27.349
idea of taking single issue

644
00:19:27.350 --> 00:19:29.249
voting out

645
00:19:29.250 --> 00:19:31.809
of our kind of mental consciousness?

646
00:19:31.810 --> 00:19:33.609
Well, what I mean by the fact that

647
00:19:33.610 --> 00:19:35.609
single issue just does not

648
00:19:35.610 --> 00:19:37.469
give you a proper or an

649
00:19:37.470 --> 00:19:38.929
ironclad rule.

650
00:19:38.930 --> 00:19:40.109
If you just take kind of

651
00:19:40.110 --> 00:19:41.769
evangelicals, you know, the classic

652
00:19:41.770 --> 00:19:43.469
standard evangelical view currently

653
00:19:43.470 --> 00:19:44.929
in existence, right?

654
00:19:44.930 --> 00:19:46.949
Okay, you can make a very

655
00:19:46.950 --> 00:19:49.069
strong case, which I hold that

656
00:19:49.070 --> 00:19:51.049
this sort of takes you towards a

657
00:19:51.050 --> 00:19:52.949
pro-life stance, but then

658
00:19:52.950 --> 00:19:54.869
it's like a whole other set of

659
00:19:54.870 --> 00:19:55.969
issues. Well, what's the best

660
00:19:55.970 --> 00:19:57.969
specific policies that

661
00:19:57.970 --> 00:20:00.029
actually advance that view?

662
00:20:00.030 --> 00:20:01.379
And it's not clear.

663
00:20:01.380 --> 00:20:03.179
I mean, electing a pro-life

664
00:20:03.180 --> 00:20:05.159
president has almost run counter

665
00:20:05.160 --> 00:20:06.859
to the actual level of abortions

666
00:20:06.860 --> 00:20:08.319
that, that like, it does not

667
00:20:08.320 --> 00:20:09.619
correlate. It's almost negatively

668
00:20:09.620 --> 00:20:10.739
correlated.

669
00:20:10.740 --> 00:20:12.619
Just voting for pro- life president

670
00:20:12.620 --> 00:20:14.599
does not mean you're going to get

671
00:20:14.600 --> 00:20:16.899
pro-lif outcomes that you prefer.

672
00:20:16.900 --> 00:20:18.759
And at the same time, if you are,

673
00:20:18.760 --> 00:20:20.179
you know, making that pro- life

674
00:20:20.180 --> 00:20:22.919
statement because you value life,

675
00:20:22.920 --> 00:20:24.959
that the life of a fetus cannot

676
00:20:24.960 --> 00:20:26.879
be the only life that

677
00:20:26.880 --> 00:20:27.659
you care about.

678
00:20:27.660 --> 00:20:29.499
The life of an immigrant, you know,

679
00:20:29.500 --> 00:20:31.239
the life of hungry people, the life

680
00:20:31.240 --> 00:20:33.119
of homeless, they matter.

681
00:20:33.120 --> 00:20:34.939
They matter just as much.

682
00:20:34.940 --> 00:20:36.119
And, you know, so you have to weigh

683
00:20:36.120 --> 00:20:38.019
all of those lives to sort

684
00:20:38.020 --> 00:20:39.799
of cherry pick, "this life is the

685
00:20:39.800 --> 00:20:41.999
only life I care about", is

686
00:20:42.000 --> 00:20:43.659
quite at odds with any understanding

687
00:20:43.660 --> 00:20:45.559
of what it means to to love

688
00:20:45.560 --> 00:20:46.560
your neighbor.

689
00:20:47.090 --> 00:20:48.929
Jill, do you agree with Curtis on

690
00:20:48.930 --> 00:20:50.569
the idea of starting with character

691
00:20:50.570 --> 00:20:51.989
versus issues?

692
00:20:51.990 --> 00:20:53.449
Yeah, I'm not sure, like I said,

693
00:20:53.450 --> 00:20:55.349
that I can separate the two of them.

694
00:20:55.350 --> 00:20:56.329
And there are certainly some

695
00:20:56.330 --> 00:20:57.629
elements of character that I would

696
00:20:57.630 --> 00:20:59.569
say are beyond the pale.

697
00:20:59.570 --> 00:21:01.409
So there might be politicians

698
00:21:01.410 --> 00:21:03.229
or elected officials that one

699
00:21:03.230 --> 00:21:04.869
might agree with their policy

700
00:21:04.870 --> 00:21:07.029
positions, but actually

701
00:21:07.030 --> 00:21:09.089
women are not safe around

702
00:21:09.090 --> 00:21:10.469
them. One thing that Curtis said

703
00:21:10.470 --> 00:21:12.309
that I really do agree with is

704
00:21:12.310 --> 00:21:14.609
about the ways in which the

705
00:21:14.610 --> 00:21:16.109
model that's set at the top can

706
00:21:16.110 --> 00:21:17.729
filter down. I think we've seen this

707
00:21:17.730 --> 00:21:19.349
in real time with the current

708
00:21:19.350 --> 00:21:21.299
president who's normalized

709
00:21:21.300 --> 00:21:23.099
sexual assault of women and

710
00:21:23.100 --> 00:21:25.179
normalized demeaning immigrants

711
00:21:25.180 --> 00:21:27.179
and people with disabilities

712
00:21:27.180 --> 00:21:28.679
and et cetera, et cetera.

713
00:21:28.680 --> 00:21:30.419
I wanna know, is this gonna be

714
00:21:30.420 --> 00:21:31.539
somebody who is going to put

715
00:21:31.540 --> 00:21:33.759
policies and laws in place that

716
00:21:33.760 --> 00:21:35.319
are gonna make this a safer country

717
00:21:35.320 --> 00:21:36.499
for everybody?

718
00:21:36.500 --> 00:21:38.319
One of the reasons I think there's

719
00:21:38.320 --> 00:21:40.199
such a moral dilemma now

720
00:21:40.200 --> 00:21:42.039
about, for

721
00:21:42.040 --> 00:21:44.299
example, recent candidates who

722
00:21:44.300 --> 00:21:46.439
have come out, like, to your point,

723
00:21:46.440 --> 00:21:48.339
Jill, like the allegations

724
00:21:48.340 --> 00:21:50.199
of sexual assault and then

725
00:21:50.200 --> 00:21:52.019
people thinking, well, but I wanted

726
00:21:52.020 --> 00:21:53.679
to support this person.

727
00:21:53.680 --> 00:21:54.879
And I'm going to say this guy,

728
00:21:54.880 --> 00:21:56.739
because in pretty much every

729
00:21:56.740 --> 00:21:57.839
instance, it's been a guy.

730
00:21:57.840 --> 00:21:59.339
I wanted a support this guy because

731
00:21:59.340 --> 00:22:01.239
I think he's going to, for

732
00:22:01.240 --> 00:22:03.279
example, help Democrats and we need

733
00:22:03.280 --> 00:22:04.459
more Democrats in power.

734
00:22:04.460 --> 00:22:06.189
So I'm gonna look the other way.

735
00:22:06.190 --> 00:22:08.489
I want to go back to the apocryphal

736
00:22:08.490 --> 00:22:10.709
kind of nature of things and

737
00:22:10.710 --> 00:22:12.609
ask how you step outside of

738
00:22:12.610 --> 00:22:14.609
that because we can very easily trap

739
00:22:14.610 --> 00:22:17.289
ourselves in of thinking like,

740
00:22:17.290 --> 00:22:19.529
okay, well, we have to sacrifice,

741
00:22:19.530 --> 00:22:22.029
character for this policy.

742
00:22:22.030 --> 00:22:23.349
I don't think you can.

743
00:22:23.350 --> 00:22:25.669
I mean, I think in some ways,

744
00:22:25.670 --> 00:22:26.749
Rabbi Jacobs and I are saying the

745
00:22:26.750 --> 00:22:28.309
same thing in the sense that

746
00:22:28.310 --> 00:22:30.249
character and your

747
00:22:30.250 --> 00:22:32.069
public stance are

748
00:22:32.070 --> 00:22:33.669
integrated. I mean, like another

749
00:22:33.670 --> 00:22:35.569
thing that I would say is a mark

750
00:22:35.570 --> 00:22:37.469
of somebody that is worthy of

751
00:22:37.470 --> 00:22:39.709
our love is they have integrity,

752
00:22:39.710 --> 00:22:41.829
that the person together holds their

753
00:22:41.830 --> 00:22:43.709
values in a way that actually

754
00:22:43.710 --> 00:22:45.769
makes sense, that are that are

755
00:22:45.770 --> 00:22:47.009
consistent with one another.

756
00:22:47.010 --> 00:22:48.429
They're not saying one thing and

757
00:22:48.430 --> 00:22:49.709
doing another.

758
00:22:49.710 --> 00:22:51.329
You know, at least in primaries,

759
00:22:51.330 --> 00:22:53.329
this doesn't have to be a zero sum

760
00:22:53.330 --> 00:22:55.389
game. Of course, the difficulty

761
00:22:55.390 --> 00:22:56.909
comes when you get to the general

762
00:22:56.910 --> 00:22:57.910
election.

763
00:22:58.550 --> 00:23:00.249
And like many of us, I'm not always

764
00:23:00.250 --> 00:23:01.709
voting for my favorite candidate in

765
00:23:01.710 --> 00:23:02.589
the general elections.

766
00:23:02.590 --> 00:23:04.249
But at the end of the day, I making

767
00:23:04.250 --> 00:23:06.089
a choice about who do I

768
00:23:06.090 --> 00:23:08.109
think is going to bring this country

769
00:23:08.110 --> 00:23:10.169
or the city you're voting in,

770
00:23:10.170 --> 00:23:11.989
in a better direction and make this

771
00:23:11.990 --> 00:23:13.569
a better place for the most people.

772
00:23:13.570 --> 00:23:15.609
So as we're recording this, it's the

773
00:23:15.610 --> 00:23:17.429
afternoon before Tisha B'Av which

774
00:23:17.430 --> 00:23:19.279
is the saddest day

775
00:23:19.280 --> 00:23:20.419
on the Jewish calendar.

776
00:23:20.420 --> 00:23:21.459
It's the anniversary of the

777
00:23:21.460 --> 00:23:23.299
destruction of both temples and many

778
00:23:23.300 --> 00:23:25.479
other catastrophic events in

779
00:23:25.480 --> 00:23:26.839
Jewish history.

780
00:23:26.840 --> 00:23:28.699
And there's this amazing story in

781
00:23:28.700 --> 00:23:29.639
the Talmud that I've been thinking

782
00:23:29.640 --> 00:23:31.479
about a lot recently, because it

783
00:23:31.480 --> 00:23:33.499
feels like it was written yesterday,

784
00:23:33.500 --> 00:23:35.379
where basically the

785
00:23:35.380 --> 00:23:37.339
city of Jerusalem is under siege by

786
00:23:37.340 --> 00:23:38.419
the Romans.

787
00:23:38.420 --> 00:23:40.139
And there's a few very wealthy

788
00:23:40.140 --> 00:23:41.539
people who come and they say, okay,

789
00:23:41.540 --> 00:23:43.459
we have enough supplies that we can

790
00:23:43.460 --> 00:23:45.099
support the people for 21 years.

791
00:23:45.100 --> 00:23:46.699
Like this one has grain and this one

792
00:23:46.700 --> 00:23:48.219
has wood for, you know, for cooking

793
00:23:48.220 --> 00:23:49.969
and. Basically, the people can

794
00:23:49.970 --> 00:23:51.849
outlast the siege, but in the

795
00:23:51.850 --> 00:23:54.129
city, there's a group of zealots.

796
00:23:54.130 --> 00:23:56.229
And the rabbis of the city

797
00:23:56.230 --> 00:23:58.169
say, well, let's go make peace with

798
00:23:58.170 --> 00:23:59.609
the Romans. And the zealot said, let

799
00:23:59.610 --> 00:24:00.869
us go to war with them.

800
00:24:00.870 --> 00:24:01.889
And the rabbi said, like, that is

801
00:24:01.890 --> 00:24:03.069
not gonna work out for us.

802
00:24:03.070 --> 00:24:04.449
We're gonna lose.

803
00:24:04.450 --> 00:24:06.389
And so the zeolots go and they burn

804
00:24:06.390 --> 00:24:08.329
down these storehouses that

805
00:24:08.330 --> 00:24:10.609
have all the food and the firewood

806
00:24:10.610 --> 00:24:12.569
that the people need, basically

807
00:24:12.570 --> 00:24:14.749
to force them into starvation so

808
00:24:14.750 --> 00:24:15.969
that they'll be forced to fight.

809
00:24:15.970 --> 00:24:18.269
And so for these zealots...

810
00:24:18.270 --> 00:24:20.229
They decided to force a

811
00:24:20.230 --> 00:24:21.849
war that ended up with death and

812
00:24:21.850 --> 00:24:23.609
destruction because of their purity

813
00:24:23.610 --> 00:24:24.549
of politics, right?

814
00:24:24.550 --> 00:24:26.649
We have to fight the Romans.

815
00:24:26.650 --> 00:24:28.629
We can't just try to survive

816
00:24:28.630 --> 00:24:30.329
and to save lives.

817
00:24:30.330 --> 00:24:31.849
The position of the zealots is we

818
00:24:31.850 --> 00:24:33.289
can't have what we want, just burn

819
00:24:33.290 --> 00:24:34.229
it all down.

820
00:24:34.230 --> 00:24:35.509
And there's another position that

821
00:24:35.510 --> 00:24:37.709
says we are losing and let's

822
00:24:37.710 --> 00:24:39.449
try to get what we can and let us

823
00:24:39.450 --> 00:24:41.469
try to save as many people as

824
00:24:41.470 --> 00:24:42.889
we can. Let's try and save this

825
00:24:42.890 --> 00:24:44.109
tradition.

826
00:24:44.110 --> 00:24:46.249
And if it hadn't been...

827
00:24:46.250 --> 00:24:48.289
For that rabbi, maybe I wouldn't

828
00:24:48.290 --> 00:24:49.329
be here today, right?

829
00:24:49.330 --> 00:24:51.489
I'll just riff on zealots for

830
00:24:51.490 --> 00:24:53.529
a moment. In the Christian tradition

831
00:24:53.530 --> 00:24:55.889
of where zealot show up is actually

832
00:24:55.890 --> 00:24:58.269
in Jesus' first core

833
00:24:58.270 --> 00:24:59.249
followers.

834
00:24:59.250 --> 00:25:01.209
It's recorded one of them was

835
00:25:01.210 --> 00:25:02.449
Simon the Zealot.

836
00:25:02.450 --> 00:25:04.509
So he was clearly known for

837
00:25:04.510 --> 00:25:06.469
his political position of burn

838
00:25:06.470 --> 00:25:08.429
it all down, kill

839
00:25:08.430 --> 00:25:10.549
the Romans, evict them any

840
00:25:10.550 --> 00:25:12.209
means necessary.

841
00:25:12.210 --> 00:25:14.969
And so apparently in Jesus's...

842
00:25:14.970 --> 00:25:17.209
first 12 disciples is somebody

843
00:25:17.210 --> 00:25:19.909
who advocated for that position.

844
00:25:19.910 --> 00:25:21.769
You know, who else is in the

845
00:25:21.770 --> 00:25:23.589
12, this guy named Matthew.

846
00:25:23.590 --> 00:25:25.489
And he's known because he's

847
00:25:25.490 --> 00:25:27.369
known as Matthew the tax

848
00:25:27.370 --> 00:25:28.829
collector, which is the exact

849
00:25:28.830 --> 00:25:31.169
opposite of the partisan spectrum

850
00:25:31.170 --> 00:25:32.969
and ideological spectrum of the day.

851
00:25:32.970 --> 00:25:34.789
A tax collector is collecting taxes

852
00:25:34.790 --> 00:25:36.809
for Rome, for the Roman era.

853
00:25:36.810 --> 00:25:38.069
They would have been viewed by the

854
00:25:38.070 --> 00:25:39.929
zealots as a, as

855
00:25:39.930 --> 00:25:41.309
a collaborator.

856
00:25:41.310 --> 00:25:42.929
And Matthew would have viewed Simon

857
00:25:42.930 --> 00:25:45.299
as a sort of radical

858
00:25:45.300 --> 00:25:46.539
extremist.

859
00:25:46.540 --> 00:25:49.239
And so somehow, you

860
00:25:49.240 --> 00:25:51.679
know, Jesus is, I think,

861
00:25:51.680 --> 00:25:53.979
expressing that his kingdom is

862
00:25:53.980 --> 00:25:55.599
going to encompass, you, know, sort

863
00:25:55.600 --> 00:25:57.519
of this full range of

864
00:25:57.520 --> 00:25:58.539
ideologies.

865
00:25:58.540 --> 00:25:59.879
That should tell us something about

866
00:25:59.880 --> 00:26:00.980
what it means to follow Jesus.

867
00:26:10.150 --> 00:26:11.249
Hey, welcome back.

868
00:26:11.250 --> 00:26:12.889
This is Oh God Now What, which,

869
00:26:12.890 --> 00:26:14.349
let's be honest, is how many of us

870
00:26:14.350 --> 00:26:16.289
feel about the midterm elections.

871
00:26:16.290 --> 00:26:18.449
I often guest host the NPR show 1A.

872
00:26:18.450 --> 00:26:20.849
And not long ago, I interviewed

873
00:26:20.850 --> 00:26:22.249
Milat Kiros, the candidate in

874
00:26:22.250 --> 00:26:23.769
Colorado who's a member of the

875
00:26:23.770 --> 00:26:25.809
Democratic Socialists of America.

876
00:26:25.810 --> 00:26:27.809
A listener emailed asking if

877
00:26:27.810 --> 00:26:29.209
members of the DSA were

878
00:26:29.210 --> 00:26:31.389
automatically anti-Zionist,

879
00:26:31.390 --> 00:26:33.529
which got me thinking Jill Jacobs

880
00:26:33.530 --> 00:26:35.489
is a progressive, but she's also

881
00:26:35.490 --> 00:26:37.609
a rabbi, at a time when support

882
00:26:37.610 --> 00:26:39.529
for Israel is declining in the

883
00:26:39.530 --> 00:26:40.409
U.S.

884
00:26:40.410 --> 00:26:42.349
So I asked her how she's

885
00:26:42.350 --> 00:26:44.269
balancing all of that when choosing

886
00:26:44.270 --> 00:26:45.270
candidates.

887
00:26:46.310 --> 00:26:48.469
I first want people to know

888
00:26:48.470 --> 00:26:50.569
why Jews care about Israel

889
00:26:50.570 --> 00:26:52.749
and Israelis, which is

890
00:26:52.750 --> 00:26:53.929
Jews aren't just a religion.

891
00:26:53.930 --> 00:26:55.549
We're a people, which means that

892
00:26:55.550 --> 00:26:57.189
Jews are connected to Jews across

893
00:26:57.190 --> 00:26:59.269
the world. And it's why

894
00:26:59.270 --> 00:27:01.309
October 7th was

895
00:27:01.310 --> 00:27:03.269
so painful for Jews in the

896
00:27:03.270 --> 00:27:05.109
United States because first many

897
00:27:05.110 --> 00:27:06.909
of us had direct relationships to

898
00:27:06.910 --> 00:27:08.889
people who were affected by that

899
00:27:08.890 --> 00:27:10.149
horrible violence.

900
00:27:10.150 --> 00:27:12.309
And also because when

901
00:27:12.310 --> 00:27:13.689
other Jews around the world are

902
00:27:13.690 --> 00:27:15.169
suffering, Jews everywhere are

903
00:27:15.170 --> 00:27:15.959
suffering.

904
00:27:15.960 --> 00:27:17.979
And also, the land of Israel

905
00:27:17.980 --> 00:27:19.699
is, of course, the ancient homeland

906
00:27:19.700 --> 00:27:20.919
of the Jewish people.

907
00:27:20.920 --> 00:27:22.659
The state of Israel was a modern

908
00:27:22.660 --> 00:27:24.479
state created in the moment that

909
00:27:24.480 --> 00:27:25.919
many other nation-states were

910
00:27:25.920 --> 00:27:26.959
created.

911
00:27:26.960 --> 00:27:28.939
In the period of the late 19th,

912
00:27:28.940 --> 00:27:30.899
early 20th century is when empires

913
00:27:30.900 --> 00:27:32.359
were falling and lots and lots of

914
00:27:32.360 --> 00:27:33.619
nation-states were being created,

915
00:27:33.620 --> 00:27:35.279
including Israel.

916
00:27:35.280 --> 00:27:36.659
And Israel is also important to Jews

917
00:27:36.660 --> 00:27:38.699
because part of the reason

918
00:27:38.700 --> 00:27:40.379
that Israel was created was because

919
00:27:40.380 --> 00:27:42.979
in that moment in nation states,

920
00:27:42.980 --> 00:27:44.543
Jews were asking the question of,

921
00:27:44.544 --> 00:27:45.544
okay,

922
00:27:46.400 --> 00:27:48.019
well, there was a moment when it

923
00:27:48.020 --> 00:27:49.239
looked like enlightenment might

924
00:27:49.240 --> 00:27:51.279
bring safety for Jews in Western

925
00:27:51.280 --> 00:27:53.059
Europe in particular.

926
00:27:53.060 --> 00:27:54.959
And it ended up that enlightenment

927
00:27:54.960 --> 00:27:57.019
didn't bring that promised safety.

928
00:27:57.020 --> 00:27:58.199
And the question that Jews were

929
00:27:58.200 --> 00:27:59.959
asking is how do we make sure that

930
00:27:59.960 --> 00:28:01.999
our community is safe, right?

931
00:28:02.000 --> 00:28:04.119
Do we wanna demand autonomy

932
00:28:04.120 --> 00:28:05.679
in the places that we are?

933
00:28:05.680 --> 00:28:07.159
So national, political, cultural

934
00:28:07.160 --> 00:28:08.999
autonomy where we are, or

935
00:28:09.000 --> 00:28:10.759
do we wanna get a nation state of

936
00:28:10.760 --> 00:28:12.579
our own? And those conversations

937
00:28:12.580 --> 00:28:14.249
were very live, really.

938
00:28:14.250 --> 00:28:16.109
Until the Holocaust brought them

939
00:28:16.110 --> 00:28:18.589
to a screeching end.

940
00:28:18.590 --> 00:28:20.009
And, you know, particularly the fact

941
00:28:20.010 --> 00:28:21.949
that almost no other country

942
00:28:21.950 --> 00:28:23.209
around the world, including the

943
00:28:23.210 --> 00:28:25.949
United States, would accept Jews is

944
00:28:25.950 --> 00:28:28.129
part of why many,

945
00:28:28.130 --> 00:28:29.369
most Jews at the time, concluded

946
00:28:29.370 --> 00:28:30.509
that there needed to be a Jewish

947
00:28:30.510 --> 00:28:32.329
state and really so did much

948
00:28:32.330 --> 00:28:33.569
of the rest of the world.

949
00:28:33.570 --> 00:28:34.829
So that's a little bit of background

950
00:28:34.830 --> 00:28:35.809
that's important to know.

951
00:28:35.810 --> 00:28:37.909
And it's especially important when

952
00:28:37.910 --> 00:28:38.854
we're talking about Colorado,

953
00:28:38.855 --> 00:28:39.855
because

954
00:28:40.840 --> 00:28:43.019
there was a horrible fire

955
00:28:43.020 --> 00:28:45.419
bombing of a

956
00:28:45.420 --> 00:28:47.599
weekly march for hostages when

957
00:28:47.600 --> 00:28:49.439
there were Israeli hostages in Gaza

958
00:28:49.440 --> 00:28:51.439
still in Boulder.

959
00:28:51.440 --> 00:28:53.339
And there were some people who said,

960
00:28:53.340 --> 00:28:54.679
well, that wasn't an anti-Semitic

961
00:28:54.680 --> 00:28:55.639
event.

962
00:28:55.640 --> 00:28:57.099
But I think what that position of

963
00:28:57.100 --> 00:28:58.339
saying, well, it's not anti-semitic

964
00:28:58.340 --> 00:28:59.459
or it didn't happen during a

965
00:28:59.460 --> 00:29:00.579
religious ritual or it doesn't

966
00:29:00.580 --> 00:29:01.859
happen in a synagogue, what that's

967
00:29:01.860 --> 00:29:03.759
missing is the fact that

968
00:29:03.760 --> 00:29:05.799
those Jews who were there,

969
00:29:05.800 --> 00:29:06.800
they were actually observing

970
00:29:07.940 --> 00:29:09.359
a Jewish mitzvah, a Jewish

971
00:29:09.360 --> 00:29:11.439
commandment, which is pidyon shvuyim

972
00:29:11.440 --> 00:29:13.519
or the return of hostages, which is

973
00:29:13.520 --> 00:29:15.679
no different when it comes to

974
00:29:15.680 --> 00:29:17.699
commandments than let's say keeping

975
00:29:17.700 --> 00:29:18.819
Shabbat.

976
00:29:18.820 --> 00:29:20.099
But then when we talk about the

977
00:29:20.100 --> 00:29:22.059
state of Israel, which is a country

978
00:29:22.060 --> 00:29:23.999
just like every other country, and

979
00:29:24.000 --> 00:29:25.999
like every country, it's bound to

980
00:29:26.000 --> 00:29:28.379
international human rights and

981
00:29:28.380 --> 00:29:30.039
international law and human rights

982
00:29:30.040 --> 00:29:31.719
law, and like other country it

983
00:29:31.720 --> 00:29:33.219
violates that. And so in the case of

984
00:29:33.220 --> 00:29:35.399
Israel we've seen since October

985
00:29:35.400 --> 00:29:38.109
7th, which was in itself a war

986
00:29:38.110 --> 00:29:40.189
crime, Israel has then

987
00:29:40.190 --> 00:29:42.109
launched a war that

988
00:29:42.110 --> 00:29:44.469
included many war crimes.

989
00:29:44.470 --> 00:29:46.649
I think that is is clear and

990
00:29:46.650 --> 00:29:48.609
that left just horrendous

991
00:29:48.610 --> 00:29:50.509
destruction and death in Gaza.

992
00:29:50.510 --> 00:29:52.509
You know, more than 70,000 people

993
00:29:52.510 --> 00:29:53.709
in Gaza were killed, including

994
00:29:53.710 --> 00:29:55.809
thousands of women and children,

995
00:29:55.810 --> 00:29:58.649
and that killing continues.

996
00:29:58.650 --> 00:30:01.029
And Israel 100%

997
00:30:01.030 --> 00:30:02.809
deserves to be held accountable for

998
00:30:02.810 --> 00:30:04.309
that. Countries should be held

999
00:30:04.310 --> 00:30:05.768
accountable for when they violate

1000
00:30:05.769 --> 00:30:07.709
the laws of armed

1001
00:30:07.710 --> 00:30:09.009
conflict, when they commit war

1002
00:30:09.010 --> 00:30:10.669
crimes, when they violate

1003
00:30:10.670 --> 00:30:12.429
international law.

1004
00:30:12.430 --> 00:30:14.369
And that is not saying that

1005
00:30:14.370 --> 00:30:16.489
Jews care about Israel

1006
00:30:16.490 --> 00:30:18.209
and care about Israelis and want

1007
00:30:18.210 --> 00:30:20.029
Israel to continue to exist is

1008
00:30:20.030 --> 00:30:22.709
not at all at odds with

1009
00:30:22.710 --> 00:30:24.589
saying that Israel has

1010
00:30:24.590 --> 00:30:26.909
committed horrific crimes and

1011
00:30:26.910 --> 00:30:29.129
that this war has

1012
00:30:29.130 --> 00:30:31.019
gone on for too long.

1013
00:30:31.020 --> 00:30:32.919
I'll also say that I think that

1014
00:30:32.920 --> 00:30:34.679
what is best for Israelis is also

1015
00:30:34.680 --> 00:30:36.599
what's best for Palestinians, which

1016
00:30:36.600 --> 00:30:38.459
is to have a long-term solution that

1017
00:30:38.460 --> 00:30:40.219
ensures the human rights, the

1018
00:30:40.220 --> 00:30:41.839
dignity, and the self-determination

1019
00:30:41.840 --> 00:30:43.319
of both people, which I believe will

1020
00:30:43.320 --> 00:30:45.299
best be realized through two

1021
00:30:45.300 --> 00:30:46.319
sovereign states.

1022
00:30:46.320 --> 00:30:48.159
I just said a lot of words, which

1023
00:30:48.160 --> 00:30:50.139
takes a lot more time than saying

1024
00:30:50.140 --> 00:30:51.799
Zionist or anti-Zionist, because

1025
00:30:51.800 --> 00:30:53.859
those terms, to me, just

1026
00:30:53.860 --> 00:30:54.879
obscure everything.

1027
00:30:54.880 --> 00:30:56.999
Somebody can say they're Zionist

1028
00:30:57.000 --> 00:30:58.939
and mean I think Israel should

1029
00:30:58.940 --> 00:31:01.059
continue to exist as a Jewish state.

1030
00:31:01.060 --> 00:31:02.739
Somebody can say, I'm Zionist and I

1031
00:31:02.740 --> 00:31:04.439
want to destroy Gaza, which is, in

1032
00:31:04.440 --> 00:31:07.559
my opinion, completely unacceptable.

1033
00:31:07.560 --> 00:31:09.639
And people can say I'm anti-Zionist

1034
00:31:09.640 --> 00:31:11.659
and mean everything from

1035
00:31:11.660 --> 00:31:13.159
I want there to be one democratic

1036
00:31:13.160 --> 00:31:15.479
state for Israelis and Palestinians,

1037
00:31:15.480 --> 00:31:17.199
which has no political position than

1038
00:31:17.200 --> 00:31:18.879
one can argue, whether it's

1039
00:31:18.880 --> 00:31:20.219
reasonable.

1040
00:31:20.220 --> 00:31:22.399
Somebody can, I mean, anti-zionist,

1041
00:31:22.400 --> 00:31:23.439
and I don't think Israel should have

1042
00:31:23.440 --> 00:31:24.959
been created in the first place.

1043
00:31:24.960 --> 00:31:26.359
And there are people who say I am

1044
00:31:26.360 --> 00:31:27.859
anti-Zionist, all the Jews in

1045
00:31:27.860 --> 00:31:29.759
Israel. Should leave and go

1046
00:31:29.760 --> 00:31:31.519
back to Poland, which is not where

1047
00:31:31.520 --> 00:31:33.059
most of them are from, but that's

1048
00:31:33.060 --> 00:31:34.239
another point.

1049
00:31:34.240 --> 00:31:35.479
You know, and I think that is just

1050
00:31:35.480 --> 00:31:37.459
as unacceptable as saying all

1051
00:31:37.460 --> 00:31:39.239
the Palestinians should leave.

1052
00:31:39.240 --> 00:31:40.659
Whereas if you say to somebody like,

1053
00:31:40.660 --> 00:31:41.719
what's your connection to that

1054
00:31:41.720 --> 00:31:42.939
place? Do you have connections to

1055
00:31:42.940 --> 00:31:44.519
Israelis, Palestinians?

1056
00:31:44.520 --> 00:31:45.779
Have you ever been there?

1057
00:31:45.780 --> 00:31:46.719
What do you see on the news?

1058
00:31:46.720 --> 00:31:47.559
What are you thinking about?

1059
00:31:47.560 --> 00:31:48.879
What aren't you worried about?

1060
00:31:48.880 --> 00:31:50.099
What do think should happen there?

1061
00:31:50.100 --> 00:31:51.199
It's an entirely different

1062
00:31:51.200 --> 00:31:52.200
conversation.

1063
00:31:52.910 --> 00:31:54.769
You know, it's interesting that

1064
00:31:54.770 --> 00:31:56.089
it seems like every religious

1065
00:31:56.090 --> 00:31:58.229
community has some

1066
00:31:58.230 --> 00:32:00.169
litmus test issue that

1067
00:32:00.170 --> 00:32:01.069
defines it.

1068
00:32:01.070 --> 00:32:02.269
You know for the evangelical

1069
00:32:02.270 --> 00:32:04.089
Christian community it's Trump, not

1070
00:32:04.090 --> 00:32:06.089
Trump, pro-Trump, anti-Trump,

1071
00:32:06.090 --> 00:32:07.229
MAGA, anti MAGA.

1072
00:32:07.230 --> 00:32:09.489
And so it's really interesting how

1073
00:32:09.490 --> 00:32:11.329
even our own communities are

1074
00:32:11.330 --> 00:32:13.369
getting sort of facing these

1075
00:32:13.370 --> 00:32:15.709
political litmus tests that sort,

1076
00:32:15.710 --> 00:32:17.729
divide, make even

1077
00:32:17.730 --> 00:32:19.669
our internal communities and us

1078
00:32:19.670 --> 00:32:22.119
versus them context.

1079
00:32:22.120 --> 00:32:24.139
Jill, do you feel like that's,

1080
00:32:24.140 --> 00:32:26.299
I wanted to ask you about

1081
00:32:26.300 --> 00:32:27.959
Zohran Mamdani, the New York mayor,

1082
00:32:27.960 --> 00:32:29.939
who was actually at your event

1083
00:32:29.940 --> 00:32:31.460
for T’ruah recently.

1084
00:32:32.500 --> 00:32:34.359
Can you explain just sort of like

1085
00:32:34.360 --> 00:32:35.599
what's behind that?

1086
00:32:35.600 --> 00:32:37.379
And if that's a practical example of

1087
00:32:37.380 --> 00:32:38.879
what you're talking about here and

1088
00:32:38.880 --> 00:32:40.679
why you think it's important to have

1089
00:32:40.680 --> 00:32:42.709
a relationship with him.

1090
00:32:42.710 --> 00:32:44.409
Yeah, I mean, Mayor Mamdani and I

1091
00:32:44.410 --> 00:32:46.489
have had many conversations and

1092
00:32:46.490 --> 00:32:48.389
it's clear that we are never going

1093
00:32:48.390 --> 00:32:50.209
to agree, well, I can't

1094
00:32:50.210 --> 00:32:52.589
say never, but we do not agree on

1095
00:32:52.590 --> 00:32:54.489
what the best solution

1096
00:32:54.490 --> 00:32:56.889
is for Israelis and Palestinians.

1097
00:32:56.890 --> 00:32:59.009
That said, nobody has yet invited

1098
00:32:59.010 --> 00:33:00.849
us, either of us, to the negotiating

1099
00:33:00.850 --> 00:33:02.409
table, nor is there actually a

1100
00:33:02.410 --> 00:33:03.689
negotiating table.

1101
00:33:03.690 --> 00:33:04.930
That's a very good point.

1102
00:33:06.570 --> 00:33:08.389
If there's negotiations,

1103
00:33:08.390 --> 00:33:10.049
they'll be between Israelis and

1104
00:33:10.050 --> 00:33:11.369
Palestinian and the international

1105
00:33:11.370 --> 00:33:11.479
community.

1106
00:33:11.480 --> 00:33:12.939
They're not asking you about a one

1107
00:33:12.940 --> 00:33:13.999
or two state solution there.

1108
00:33:14.000 --> 00:33:15.979
And if they invite

1109
00:33:15.980 --> 00:33:17.280
the two of us, great, we'll go, we

1110
00:33:17.281 --> 00:33:18.279
will probably have a really good

1111
00:33:18.280 --> 00:33:19.579
conversation, but we are not going

1112
00:33:19.580 --> 00:33:21.559
to figure it out in New York City.

1113
00:33:21.560 --> 00:33:23.939
And we can continue to

1114
00:33:23.940 --> 00:33:25.559
talk about that, and we can also

1115
00:33:25.560 --> 00:33:28.099
talk about the words that

1116
00:33:28.100 --> 00:33:29.599
people use to have these

1117
00:33:29.600 --> 00:33:30.499
conversations.

1118
00:33:30.500 --> 00:33:32.539
And just to give an example,

1119
00:33:32.540 --> 00:33:34.859
I think that Mayor Mamdadi has

1120
00:33:34.860 --> 00:33:36.739
reached out to many members of

1121
00:33:36.740 --> 00:33:38.359
the Jewish community and had lots of

1122
00:33:38.360 --> 00:33:39.779
conversations and visited different

1123
00:33:39.780 --> 00:33:40.949
Jewish communities.

1124
00:33:40.950 --> 00:33:42.309
And I think that we've seen this in

1125
00:33:42.310 --> 00:33:43.449
the way that he shifted his

1126
00:33:43.450 --> 00:33:45.409
language, that particularly around

1127
00:33:45.410 --> 00:33:47.289
the term globalize the Intifada,

1128
00:33:47.290 --> 00:33:48.749
which isn't a term that he ever

1129
00:33:48.750 --> 00:33:50.029
personally used, but when he was

1130
00:33:50.030 --> 00:33:51.929
first asked about people in

1131
00:33:51.930 --> 00:33:54.908
the pro-Palestine movement using it,

1132
00:33:54.909 --> 00:33:56.829
he kind of tried to give an academic

1133
00:33:56.830 --> 00:33:59.069
explanation and he tried a few other

1134
00:33:59.070 --> 00:33:59.889
things.

1135
00:33:59.890 --> 00:33:59.891
And then-

1136
00:33:59.892 --> 00:34:01.599
I'm actually not familiar, what is,

1137
00:34:01.600 --> 00:34:03.339
can you explain more about that

1138
00:34:03.340 --> 00:34:03.419
term?

1139
00:34:03.420 --> 00:34:05.299
Globalize the Intifada.

1140
00:34:05.300 --> 00:34:07.199
Yeah, so I don't want to try

1141
00:34:07.200 --> 00:34:09.079
to explain why people use

1142
00:34:09.080 --> 00:34:10.579
it because I really don't agree with

1143
00:34:10.580 --> 00:34:11.738
the usage of the term and I don't

1144
00:34:11.739 --> 00:34:13.198
want to put words in other people's

1145
00:34:13.199 --> 00:34:15.238
mouths, but I'll say that when Jews

1146
00:34:15.239 --> 00:34:17.399
hear that term,

1147
00:34:17.400 --> 00:34:19.579
what many of us think about is

1148
00:34:19.580 --> 00:34:21.399
the second Intifadah in Israel in

1149
00:34:21.400 --> 00:34:23.698
2000-2001.

1150
00:34:23.699 --> 00:34:24.738
Personally, I was living in

1151
00:34:24.739 --> 00:34:25.638
Jerusalem.

1152
00:34:25.639 --> 00:34:27.198
I lost a friend and her boyfriend

1153
00:34:27.199 --> 00:34:28.979
who were killed in a bus bombing.

1154
00:34:28.980 --> 00:34:30.919
I remember that feeling of trying to

1155
00:34:30.920 --> 00:34:31.888
figure out.

1156
00:34:31.889 --> 00:34:33.888
Is this restaurant safe or is

1157
00:34:33.889 --> 00:34:34.869
anybody going to bomb this

1158
00:34:34.870 --> 00:34:35.709
restaurant this moment?

1159
00:34:35.710 --> 00:34:37.709
Like, it's very scary, you

1160
00:34:37.710 --> 00:34:39.569
know, and we also just passed the

1161
00:34:39.570 --> 00:34:41.769
anniversary of the AMIA bombing

1162
00:34:41.770 --> 00:34:43.749
in Buenos Aires

1163
00:34:43.750 --> 00:34:46.069
in the nineties that

1164
00:34:46.070 --> 00:34:47.968
was most likely carried out

1165
00:34:47.969 --> 00:34:50.129
by Hezbollah, and when

1166
00:34:50.130 --> 00:34:51.968
many Jews, myself included,

1167
00:34:51.969 --> 00:34:52.948
hear the term globalizing the

1168
00:34:52.949 --> 00:34:53.968
Intifada, we think about the

1169
00:34:53.969 --> 00:34:56.089
violence of the second Intifada.

1170
00:34:56.090 --> 00:34:58.299
And we also think about

1171
00:34:58.300 --> 00:34:59.699
those who are taking their anger

1172
00:34:59.700 --> 00:35:01.319
about Israel out on Jewish

1173
00:35:01.320 --> 00:35:03.239
communities in the United States,

1174
00:35:03.240 --> 00:35:04.919
in Europe, in Australia.

1175
00:35:04.920 --> 00:35:06.779
But I think once Mayor Mamdani

1176
00:35:06.780 --> 00:35:08.999
heard from Jewish community members

1177
00:35:09.000 --> 00:35:11.139
that when many

1178
00:35:11.140 --> 00:35:13.359
of us hear that phrase, we hear,

1179
00:35:13.360 --> 00:35:15.299
carry out a terror attack against

1180
00:35:15.300 --> 00:35:17.399
a synagogue in New York City.

1181
00:35:17.400 --> 00:35:19.119
He went on New York One, actually,

1182
00:35:19.120 --> 00:35:20.519
and talked about how he had heard

1183
00:35:20.520 --> 00:35:22.359
that from members of the Jewish

1184
00:35:22.360 --> 00:35:24.459
community and how therefore

1185
00:35:24.460 --> 00:35:25.609
he would.

1186
00:35:25.610 --> 00:35:26.709
Discourage the use of the phrase.

1187
00:35:26.710 --> 00:35:28.489
And that is through conversation and

1188
00:35:28.490 --> 00:35:29.709
relationship. It doesn't come

1189
00:35:29.710 --> 00:35:31.269
through yelling at people in op-ed

1190
00:35:31.270 --> 00:35:33.289
pages or on social media.

1191
00:35:33.290 --> 00:35:34.929
And I also think that there's a lot

1192
00:35:34.930 --> 00:35:37.069
of things that the Jewish community

1193
00:35:37.070 --> 00:35:38.449
and he can really agree on.

1194
00:35:38.450 --> 00:35:40.149
And I think it's a mistake, a huge

1195
00:35:40.150 --> 00:35:41.969
mistake that some part of the

1196
00:35:41.970 --> 00:35:43.309
New York Jewish community has just

1197
00:35:43.310 --> 00:35:45.189
declared war on him and said, we

1198
00:35:45.190 --> 00:35:46.609
want nothing to do with the mayor of

1199
00:35:46.610 --> 00:35:48.709
New York City who has

1200
00:35:48.710 --> 00:35:50.609
so much responsibility

1201
00:35:50.610 --> 00:35:52.529
for day-to-day life

1202
00:35:52.530 --> 00:35:53.699
in New York city.

1203
00:35:53.700 --> 00:35:55.279
Whether our kids have daycare, what

1204
00:35:55.280 --> 00:35:57.179
our apartments cost, et cetera,

1205
00:35:57.180 --> 00:35:58.819
and has very little impact on the

1206
00:35:58.820 --> 00:35:59.719
Middle East.

1207
00:35:59.720 --> 00:36:01.599
And it's okay and reasonable to

1208
00:36:01.600 --> 00:36:03.719
hold him to using language

1209
00:36:03.720 --> 00:36:05.359
that's going to keep Jews safe.

1210
00:36:05.360 --> 00:36:07.319
And you do that in, in

1211
00:36:07.320 --> 00:36:09.179
conversation, um, not just

1212
00:36:09.180 --> 00:36:11.059
through declaring him to be the

1213
00:36:11.060 --> 00:36:11.569
enemy.

1214
00:36:11.570 --> 00:36:13.769
What Rabbi Jacobs described as,

1215
00:36:13.770 --> 00:36:15.489
you know, this priority on the local

1216
00:36:15.490 --> 00:36:17.469
is the drum beat I've been trying

1217
00:36:17.470 --> 00:36:18.489
to sound.

1218
00:36:18.490 --> 00:36:20.229
We just have very little influence

1219
00:36:20.230 --> 00:36:22.149
to nil over these

1220
00:36:22.150 --> 00:36:24.129
broad issues. And so why would we

1221
00:36:24.130 --> 00:36:26.109
try to essentially nationalize

1222
00:36:26.110 --> 00:36:27.349
local politics?

1223
00:36:27.350 --> 00:36:29.129
I wonder if both of you can give me

1224
00:36:29.130 --> 00:36:31.009
a sense of what you think about

1225
00:36:31.010 --> 00:36:33.229
what your religious

1226
00:36:33.230 --> 00:36:35.629
obligation is to

1227
00:36:35.630 --> 00:36:37.669
voting and where voting fits

1228
00:36:37.670 --> 00:36:39.629
into the sphere

1229
00:36:39.630 --> 00:36:41.489
of your religious obligation to

1230
00:36:41.490 --> 00:36:43.059
be a good citizen.

1231
00:36:43.060 --> 00:36:45.739
Again, this, I think shows the,

1232
00:36:45.740 --> 00:36:47.859
where I think the priority

1233
00:36:47.860 --> 00:36:49.739
is between voting and

1234
00:36:49.740 --> 00:36:50.599
local action.

1235
00:36:50.600 --> 00:36:51.779
So I'll just give you an example of

1236
00:36:51.780 --> 00:36:53.019
this.

1237
00:36:53.020 --> 00:36:55.139
I voted for Biden over Trump.

1238
00:36:55.140 --> 00:36:56.580
I would do that, you know, that's

1239
00:36:56.581 --> 00:36:58.519
sort of a most pretty much, you

1240
00:36:58.520 --> 00:37:00.219
know, 10 out of 10 times.

1241
00:37:00.220 --> 00:37:01.599
But one of the things that I took

1242
00:37:01.600 --> 00:37:03.139
great exception with when Biden

1243
00:37:03.140 --> 00:37:05.239
ended up being a president was

1244
00:37:05.240 --> 00:37:07.099
his withdrawal from Afghanistan.

1245
00:37:07.100 --> 00:37:09.239
I thought it was done hastily,

1246
00:37:09.240 --> 00:37:10.799
done in a way that betrayed the

1247
00:37:10.800 --> 00:37:12.809
trust of Afghan allies.

1248
00:37:12.810 --> 00:37:14.529
On the ground that caused massive

1249
00:37:14.530 --> 00:37:15.649
chaos.

1250
00:37:15.650 --> 00:37:17.869
And I think that was another example

1251
00:37:17.870 --> 00:37:19.879
of where you couldn't have predicted

1252
00:37:19.880 --> 00:37:21.769
in your election vote that

1253
00:37:21.770 --> 00:37:23.109
that would happen, but it did

1254
00:37:23.110 --> 00:37:23.949
happen.

1255
00:37:23.950 --> 00:37:25.249
And so I don't, it's not like I

1256
00:37:25.250 --> 00:37:27.089
regret the vote for Biden, I

1257
00:37:27.090 --> 00:37:28.489
would do it again, but that's an

1258
00:37:28.490 --> 00:37:29.609
example of where, boy, on that

1259
00:37:29.610 --> 00:37:31.569
issue, I strongly disagree with

1260
00:37:31.570 --> 00:37:33.489
him. And I that was a

1261
00:37:33.490 --> 00:37:35.109
really poor decision, poor action of

1262
00:37:35.110 --> 00:37:36.729
his use of presidential power.

1263
00:37:36.730 --> 00:37:38.729
Now, having said that, okay,

1264
00:37:38.730 --> 00:37:40.869
I can hold all of those positions.

1265
00:37:40.870 --> 00:37:43.309
Does that really actually- change

1266
00:37:43.310 --> 00:37:45.329
anything. Does that actually make

1267
00:37:45.330 --> 00:37:47.189
me a more loving, better person?

1268
00:37:47.190 --> 00:37:49.029
Does that actually extend

1269
00:37:49.030 --> 00:37:50.969
my range of love out

1270
00:37:50.970 --> 00:37:52.229
into the world anyway?

1271
00:37:52.230 --> 00:37:53.549
No, it doesn't.

1272
00:37:53.550 --> 00:37:55.449
Here's what does, is that

1273
00:37:55.450 --> 00:37:57.829
one of the results of the

1274
00:37:57.830 --> 00:37:59.929
withdrawal is we got this

1275
00:37:59.930 --> 00:38:01.829
flood of Afghan refugees

1276
00:38:01.830 --> 00:38:03.549
into our country, and in fact into

1277
00:38:03.550 --> 00:38:05.529
my community here in the Bay Area,

1278
00:38:05.530 --> 00:38:07.949
because we have a large Afghan

1279
00:38:07.950 --> 00:38:09.329
population here already.

1280
00:38:09.330 --> 00:38:10.349
It's a lot of the resettlement

1281
00:38:10.350 --> 00:38:12.299
efforts were directed here.

1282
00:38:12.300 --> 00:38:13.299
And there were all these

1283
00:38:13.300 --> 00:38:15.119
institutions that were tasked with

1284
00:38:15.120 --> 00:38:18.119
doing that. And those institutions,

1285
00:38:18.120 --> 00:38:19.559
local institutions, essentially

1286
00:38:19.560 --> 00:38:21.359
involved in the local polis, were

1287
00:38:21.360 --> 00:38:22.299
really struggling.

1288
00:38:22.300 --> 00:38:23.719
And they were struggling, especially

1289
00:38:23.720 --> 00:38:25.939
here in the Bay Area, to find places

1290
00:38:25.940 --> 00:38:27.759
to house these refugees even at

1291
00:38:27.760 --> 00:38:29.339
a temporary level.

1292
00:38:29.340 --> 00:38:31.539
So my wife and I have built a

1293
00:38:31.540 --> 00:38:33.019
accessory dwelling unit in our

1294
00:38:33.020 --> 00:38:33.879
backyard.

1295
00:38:33.880 --> 00:38:35.639
It's like a in-law unit or something

1296
00:38:35.640 --> 00:38:37.059
like that. One of the main reasons

1297
00:38:37.060 --> 00:38:39.599
was we wanted to extend that

1298
00:38:39.600 --> 00:38:41.759
resource out to our neighbor.

1299
00:38:41.760 --> 00:38:43.179
And especially the neighbor we

1300
00:38:43.180 --> 00:38:45.279
didn't know, following the lines of

1301
00:38:45.280 --> 00:38:46.459
the good parable of the Good

1302
00:38:46.460 --> 00:38:47.719
Samaritan, somebody who's on the

1303
00:38:47.720 --> 00:38:49.419
other side of the road.

1304
00:38:49.420 --> 00:38:51.539
That neighbor that is being

1305
00:38:51.540 --> 00:38:53.379
left out to dry in a

1306
00:38:53.380 --> 00:38:55.639
highly vulnerable position exposed

1307
00:38:55.640 --> 00:38:57.499
to violence is the Afghan

1308
00:38:57.500 --> 00:38:59.539
refugee arriving in our

1309
00:38:59.540 --> 00:39:00.399
community.

1310
00:39:00.400 --> 00:39:02.319
In almost every religion,

1311
00:39:02.320 --> 00:39:03.819
one of the highest priorities of how

1312
00:39:03.820 --> 00:39:06.059
you live out your faith in

1313
00:39:06.060 --> 00:39:07.939
the public sphere is that you

1314
00:39:07.940 --> 00:39:09.699
welcome the stranger, or you welcome

1315
00:39:09.700 --> 00:39:11.779
the neighbor you don't know.

1316
00:39:11.780 --> 00:39:13.599
That's my, how I'm intersecting

1317
00:39:13.600 --> 00:39:15.479
most tangibly, most

1318
00:39:15.480 --> 00:39:16.519
effectively.

1319
00:39:16.520 --> 00:39:18.119
And in a way that frankly affect

1320
00:39:18.120 --> 00:39:20.639
like shapes my own character,

1321
00:39:20.640 --> 00:39:23.079
shapes my own capacity to love more.

1322
00:39:23.080 --> 00:39:24.839
Cause it was also a challenge to

1323
00:39:24.840 --> 00:39:26.899
have a family of

1324
00:39:26.900 --> 00:39:28.719
six, you know, living in our

1325
00:39:28.720 --> 00:39:30.839
backyard, but you know that wife

1326
00:39:30.840 --> 00:39:32.759
was a wife of a, of

1327
00:39:32.760 --> 00:39:34.959
somebody who was serving the

1328
00:39:34.960 --> 00:39:37.099
American military as a translator

1329
00:39:37.100 --> 00:39:38.539
and lost her husband.

1330
00:39:38.540 --> 00:39:40.419
And so...

1331
00:39:40.420 --> 00:39:41.679
Right, we can make all the

1332
00:39:41.680 --> 00:39:43.599
proclamations and votes

1333
00:39:43.600 --> 00:39:45.299
and post on social media, whatever

1334
00:39:45.300 --> 00:39:47.739
we want about whatever national

1335
00:39:47.740 --> 00:39:50.039
or even international issue you

1336
00:39:50.040 --> 00:39:52.059
want, in the end of the day,

1337
00:39:52.060 --> 00:39:53.199
it's like, are you gonna welcome

1338
00:39:53.200 --> 00:39:54.039
somebody?

1339
00:39:54.040 --> 00:39:55.139
Are you gonna make a decision to

1340
00:39:55.140 --> 00:39:57.019
share your resources with somebody?

1341
00:39:57.020 --> 00:39:58.239
That is where you're gonna live out

1342
00:39:58.240 --> 00:40:00.179
your faith most decisively.

1343
00:40:00.180 --> 00:40:01.819
Yeah. Um, so I very much agree with

1344
00:40:01.820 --> 00:40:03.599
Curtis that voting every four years

1345
00:40:03.600 --> 00:40:04.879
and then going back to sleep is

1346
00:40:04.880 --> 00:40:05.919
certainly not enough.

1347
00:40:05.920 --> 00:40:07.199
There's a lot that we need to do in

1348
00:40:07.200 --> 00:40:08.139
between.

1349
00:40:08.140 --> 00:40:09.579
There is a text that I love in the

1350
00:40:09.580 --> 00:40:11.459
Talmud that says that if a person is

1351
00:40:11.460 --> 00:40:13.339
moving to a new place that

1352
00:40:13.340 --> 00:40:14.879
after they're there, they're living

1353
00:40:14.880 --> 00:40:16.699
there for 30 days, they have to

1354
00:40:16.700 --> 00:40:18.919
contribute to the soup kitchen,

1355
00:40:18.920 --> 00:40:19.999
basically the food that would be

1356
00:40:20.000 --> 00:40:21.339
given out every single day.

1357
00:40:21.340 --> 00:40:22.999
And then when they're a little bit,

1358
00:40:23.000 --> 00:40:24.059
when they are there a little longer,

1359
00:40:24.060 --> 00:40:25.379
they contribute to more of a

1360
00:40:25.380 --> 00:40:27.279
long-term fund for those

1361
00:40:27.280 --> 00:40:28.902
in need and then a little longer, a

1362
00:40:30.130 --> 00:40:31.609
clothing fund right so it's a less

1363
00:40:31.610 --> 00:40:33.469
immediate need and a burial fund

1364
00:40:33.470 --> 00:40:34.809
and then ultimately the

1365
00:40:34.810 --> 00:40:36.229
infrastructure of the city the city

1366
00:40:36.230 --> 00:40:38.089
walls and they don't talk

1367
00:40:38.090 --> 00:40:39.509
about voting because you know jews

1368
00:40:39.510 --> 00:40:41.689
did not have autonomy in this period

1369
00:40:41.690 --> 00:40:43.849
but this there's this idea

1370
00:40:43.850 --> 00:40:45.389
that when you move into a city

1371
00:40:45.390 --> 00:40:47.269
you're already obligated in

1372
00:40:47.270 --> 00:40:49.269
the very basic food needs of

1373
00:40:49.270 --> 00:40:50.869
other people in the city who you

1374
00:40:50.870 --> 00:40:52.829
might not even even met those people

1375
00:40:52.830 --> 00:40:54.669
or seen them and as

1376
00:40:54.670 --> 00:40:56.809
you invest more in the community.

1377
00:40:56.810 --> 00:40:58.549
You are invested more in the

1378
00:40:58.550 --> 00:40:59.769
long-term needs, right?

1379
00:40:59.770 --> 00:41:01.409
Infrastructure, city walls, that's a

1380
00:41:01.410 --> 00:41:02.649
very long- term need.

1381
00:41:02.650 --> 00:41:04.069
And I would throw voting in here.

1382
00:41:04.070 --> 00:41:06.069
Voting is an investment in

1383
00:41:06.070 --> 00:41:07.729
the long-terms needs of our cities

1384
00:41:07.730 --> 00:41:10.129
and our states and our countries,

1385
00:41:10.130 --> 00:41:11.549
but it's not enough.

1386
00:41:11.550 --> 00:41:13.549
We want to both continue to

1387
00:41:13.550 --> 00:41:15.489
push that person, even if they are

1388
00:41:15.490 --> 00:41:17.229
our favorite candidate ever, we're

1389
00:41:17.230 --> 00:41:18.689
going to disagree with them at some

1390
00:41:18.690 --> 00:41:21.049
point, and also invest

1391
00:41:21.050 --> 00:41:22.869
beyond our communities to

1392
00:41:22.870 --> 00:41:24.749
do what we can, whether it's like

1393
00:41:24.750 --> 00:41:26.209
Curtis said, That's really beautiful.

1394
00:41:26.210 --> 00:41:28.149
Welcoming a family into your

1395
00:41:28.150 --> 00:41:30.289
home or donating to

1396
00:41:30.290 --> 00:41:32.349
the local tzedakah funds

1397
00:41:32.350 --> 00:41:33.789
or getting involved in local

1398
00:41:33.790 --> 00:41:35.709
activism or whatever you can do to

1399
00:41:35.710 --> 00:41:37.689
try to make your city or your

1400
00:41:37.690 --> 00:41:39.129
state or your country the best place

1401
00:41:39.130 --> 00:41:40.289
possible.

1402
00:41:40.290 --> 00:41:42.149
Jill, Curtis, thank you, I really

1403
00:41:42.150 --> 00:41:42.909
appreciate it.

1404
00:41:42.910 --> 00:41:44.009
Thank you so much.

1405
00:41:44.010 --> 00:41:45.069
It's been a pleasure having this

1406
00:41:45.070 --> 00:41:46.389
conversation. Thank you for hosting

1407
00:41:46.390 --> 00:41:47.390
it.

1408
00:41:54.490 --> 00:41:55.709
Thanks for listening.

1409
00:41:55.710 --> 00:41:56.969
I'm Niala Boodhoo.

1410
00:41:56.970 --> 00:41:58.829
You can find Oh God Now What on

1411
00:41:58.830 --> 00:42:00.529
Substack. If you sign up for the

1412
00:42:00.530 --> 00:42:02.389
newsletter emails each week,

1413
00:42:02.390 --> 00:42:03.929
you'll get bonus and behind the

1414
00:42:03.930 --> 00:42:05.569
scenes content and join the

1415
00:42:05.570 --> 00:42:06.769
conversation with other people

1416
00:42:06.770 --> 00:42:08.989
listening to each episode.

1417
00:42:08.990 --> 00:42:10.649
Oh God Now What is a co-production

1418
00:42:10.650 --> 00:42:12.609
of PRX Productions,

1419
00:42:12.610 --> 00:42:14.789
Glad You're Here and Rhyme Media.

1420
00:42:14.790 --> 00:42:16.400
Our production team is Nick Majnoni,

1421
00:42:17.430 --> 00:42:20.049
Robin Linn, Genevieve Sponsler,

1422
00:42:20.050 --> 00:42:22.069
Sandra Lopez-Monsalve and Edwin

1423
00:42:22.070 --> 00:42:23.209
Ochoa.

1424
00:42:23.210 --> 00:42:24.669
The executive producer at Rhyme

1425
00:42:24.670 --> 00:42:26.729
Media is Dan Bobkoff, and at PRX

1426
00:42:26.730 --> 00:42:28.396
Productions, it's Jocelyn Gonzales.

1427
00:42:29.590 --> 00:42:31.429
Our theme music is by Hansdale

1428
00:42:31.430 --> 00:42:32.430
Hsu.

1429
00:42:32.810 --> 00:42:34.769
Oh God Now What is made possible by

1430
00:42:34.770 --> 00:42:36.090
the John Templeton Foundation.