1 00:00:20,130 --> 00:00:23,625 Jane: This is But Why: A Podcast for Curious Kids, from Vermont 2 00:00:23,625 --> 00:00:27,405 Public. I'm Jane Lindholm. On this show, we take questions 3 00:00:27,405 --> 00:00:32,265 from curious kids just like you, and we find answers. We get a 4 00:00:32,265 --> 00:00:36,045 lot of questions from you about how our bodies work, and 5 00:00:36,045 --> 00:00:38,715 sometimes the part of your body you're interested in learning 6 00:00:38,715 --> 00:00:42,615 more about is your brain. Several of you have been sending 7 00:00:42,615 --> 00:00:45,405 us a specific kind of brain question lately. 8 00:00:45,405 --> 00:00:49,830 Amir: What is ADHD? My name is Amir. I'm nine years old. I live 9 00:00:49,830 --> 00:00:51,150 in Limerick, Ireland. 10 00:00:51,150 --> 00:00:55,140 Ava: My name is Ava. I live in Cy Austin, New York. I'm eight 11 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:57,270 years old. What is ADHD? 12 00:00:57,270 --> 00:01:02,220 Tristan: My name is Tristan. I'm eight years old. I live in Apex, 13 00:01:02,220 --> 00:01:07,140 North Carolina, and I want to know what is ADHD. 14 00:01:07,140 --> 00:01:09,795 Felix: My name is Felix. I'm nine years old, and I'm from 15 00:01:09,795 --> 00:01:12,315 Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada. What is ADHD? 16 00:01:13,590 --> 00:01:17,430 Jane: ADHD is a term used to describe a certain type of brain 17 00:01:17,580 --> 00:01:20,360 and the ways it's similar and different from other types of 18 00:01:20,390 --> 00:01:25,160 brains, we wanted to get someone who knows a lot about ADHD to 19 00:01:25,340 --> 00:01:27,230 help us tackle your questions today. 20 00:01:27,890 --> 00:01:31,520 Dr. Liz Angoff: I'm Dr. Liz, and my job in the world is to help 21 00:01:31,730 --> 00:01:34,400 kids understand their amazing brains. 22 00:01:34,750 --> 00:01:37,420 Jane: Dr. Liz Angoff is a licensed educational 23 00:01:37,420 --> 00:01:40,900 psychologist and the author of a book called Our Brains 24 00:01:40,900 --> 00:01:45,550 Empowering Neurodivergent Minds. If you haven't heard the word 25 00:01:45,550 --> 00:01:49,930 neurodivergent before, here's how Dr. Liz explains it. 26 00:01:49,870 --> 00:01:53,620 Dr. Liz Angoff: There are lots of different types of brains in 27 00:01:53,620 --> 00:01:57,325 the world, and we can talk about all the different types of 28 00:01:57,325 --> 00:02:02,095 brains as neurodiversity. So, there's two parts to that word: 29 00:02:02,095 --> 00:02:07,855 neuro means brain and diversity means all different kinds. So 30 00:02:07,855 --> 00:02:11,215 neurodiversity is all different kinds of brains, and most 31 00:02:11,215 --> 00:02:14,395 brains, even within neurodiversity, they kind of 32 00:02:14,395 --> 00:02:20,650 work alike, and the world is designed to work for those kinds 33 00:02:20,650 --> 00:02:24,640 of brains, because it's most brains, but some brains work 34 00:02:24,640 --> 00:02:29,200 differently in some really cool ways. And when you have a brain 35 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:31,600 that works differently than most brains, we call it 36 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:34,960 neurodivergent. You have a neurodivergent brain, or you 37 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:39,070 might say I'm a neurodivergent person, and that the neuro still 38 00:02:39,070 --> 00:02:42,250 means brain, and divergent just means different, so it means I 39 00:02:42,250 --> 00:02:46,975 have a different kind of brain than most brains. 40 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:49,970 Jane: Like, if you think about the word divergent, you often 41 00:02:49,970 --> 00:02:53,270 think about a path - something that diverges is something that 42 00:02:53,270 --> 00:02:58,550 goes away from the other path. So, a neurodivergent brain is a 43 00:02:58,550 --> 00:03:01,850 brain that sort of separates a little bit from the maybe the 44 00:03:01,850 --> 00:03:04,820 path that has more footprints on it, but it's still a perfectly 45 00:03:04,820 --> 00:03:06,560 good path, and your path. 46 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:09,655 Dr. Liz Angoff: Yeah. So it's important that we have all 47 00:03:09,655 --> 00:03:13,435 different paths, because if all brains worked exactly the same, 48 00:03:13,435 --> 00:03:20,335 our world would be very, very boring, and we have all kinds of 49 00:03:20,335 --> 00:03:23,155 different problems that come up that we face every day, and so 50 00:03:23,155 --> 00:03:26,035 we need lots of different types of thinkers to solve these 51 00:03:26,035 --> 00:03:29,680 different kinds of problems, and in fact, some of the people who 52 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:33,400 have made the biggest difference in our world have been divergent 53 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:37,120 thinkers who have thought in a different way, who have gone off 54 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:42,010 the beaten path to go in a different direction, so that we 55 00:03:42,010 --> 00:03:44,170 could be better as humans. 56 00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:48,690 Jane: One type of neurodivergence is ADHD. Now, 57 00:03:48,690 --> 00:03:52,110 you may have been told by doctors or school counselors or 58 00:03:52,185 --> 00:03:56,115 parents that you have ADHD, or maybe you have a friend, a 59 00:03:56,115 --> 00:04:01,635 classmate, or a relative with an ADHD brain, but what is that? 60 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:05,650 Daniel: My name is Daniel, and I live in Columbus, Ohio, and I'm 61 00:04:05,650 --> 00:04:10,480 10 years old. What is ADHD? Because I have it, and I don't 62 00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:12,130 really understand it. 63 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:16,015 Dr. Liz Angoff: Yeah, so ADHD is one of those unique types of 64 00:04:16,015 --> 00:04:21,025 brains. It is a really cool kind of brain with a ton of 65 00:04:21,025 --> 00:04:25,645 strengths, and some things that can be a little bit tricky, and 66 00:04:25,645 --> 00:04:29,515 so if you are listening to this and you are an ADHDer, or you 67 00:04:29,515 --> 00:04:34,375 have an ADHD brain, I think it is amazing that you already know 68 00:04:34,375 --> 00:04:39,640 that you have this type of brain, but you are not alone in 69 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:45,430 being confused about it, even the name is really confusing. 70 00:04:45,430 --> 00:04:52,300 So, ADHD is actually the letters A, D, H, D, and it stands for 71 00:04:52,300 --> 00:04:57,070 Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder. But to be honest with 72 00:04:57,070 --> 00:05:00,850 you, it's actually a really bad name for what's going on. So I 73 00:05:00,850 --> 00:05:04,525 would love to break it down. So the first piece is the attention 74 00:05:04,525 --> 00:05:09,115 piece. So attention deficit means lack of attention, but it 75 00:05:09,115 --> 00:05:14,335 turns out that ADHD brains are actually paying attention to 76 00:05:14,335 --> 00:05:20,125 everything, and a lot of what's really going on is that it's not 77 00:05:20,125 --> 00:05:23,515 a lack of attention, but that it's hard to control what you're 78 00:05:23,515 --> 00:05:28,840 paying attention to, and when. So, in fact, ADHD brains tend to 79 00:05:28,840 --> 00:05:32,050 notice a lot of things that other people don't, or they 80 00:05:32,050 --> 00:05:34,360 might be thinking about things that other people aren't 81 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:38,260 thinking about, and this can lead to new ideas, it leads to 82 00:05:38,260 --> 00:05:44,470 creative thinking, or unique problem solving, and in fact, 83 00:05:44,470 --> 00:05:48,355 when ADHD brains find something that they love, they can do 84 00:05:48,355 --> 00:05:53,425 something called hyper focus, which is where you put extra 85 00:05:53,425 --> 00:05:57,625 focus into something for an extra long time, and can 86 00:05:57,625 --> 00:06:01,045 sometimes become your area of expertise when you grow up, 87 00:06:01,045 --> 00:06:07,225 which is a really cool feature. On the flip side, it can be hard 88 00:06:07,225 --> 00:06:10,075 to turn on your attention for things that aren't interesting 89 00:06:10,075 --> 00:06:13,420 to you. So, like in class, if the teacher's talking about 90 00:06:13,420 --> 00:06:16,150 something that's not that interesting, or if you have to 91 00:06:16,150 --> 00:06:19,810 remember to do your chores at home, that might be a little bit 92 00:06:19,810 --> 00:06:23,320 trickier for your brain than most brains, so that first part 93 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:26,440 of ADHD is the controlling attention part. 94 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:30,470 Jane: I think that hyper fixation, hyper focus part is so 95 00:06:30,470 --> 00:06:35,600 cool, because some kids and some adults are able, as you said, to 96 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:38,630 really spend a lot of time thinking about one thing and get 97 00:06:38,630 --> 00:06:43,490 so deep into it and become such experts in it, and something 98 00:06:43,490 --> 00:06:47,420 that a non-ADHDer might be like, well, I'm interested, but I 99 00:06:47,420 --> 00:06:50,975 can't focus for that long, that you're like, I just spent three 100 00:06:50,975 --> 00:06:53,915 hours thinking about this one thing, and I know so much about 101 00:06:53,915 --> 00:06:56,975 it, and I didn't even eat! So you know, sometimes you need to 102 00:06:56,975 --> 00:07:00,185 remember to go to the bathroom or get a drink of water, but 103 00:07:00,185 --> 00:07:02,345 you've spent all this time focusing on this really cool 104 00:07:02,345 --> 00:07:03,905 thing that you're interested in. 105 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:09,410 Dr. Liz Angoff: Exactly, exactly, so that is one of the 106 00:07:09,410 --> 00:07:13,895 cool parts of ADHD brains, and the part that can be tricky as 107 00:07:13,895 --> 00:07:17,945 well, so you've got both parts there, I think the second part 108 00:07:17,945 --> 00:07:21,965 of ADHD is the H, which stands for hyperactivity, and 109 00:07:21,965 --> 00:07:25,895 hyperactivity just means that you love to move, and the funny 110 00:07:25,895 --> 00:07:30,155 thing about this part is that not all ADHDers have this part, 111 00:07:30,155 --> 00:07:34,265 but if you do have this part and you're a mover, you might find 112 00:07:34,265 --> 00:07:37,700 that you learn best when you're moving, or that you love 113 00:07:37,700 --> 00:07:42,470 movement activities like sports, or dance or just running around 114 00:07:42,470 --> 00:07:46,010 playing tag, and you may also find that you say and do things 115 00:07:46,010 --> 00:07:49,070 before you think about them, which actually leads a lot of 116 00:07:49,460 --> 00:07:56,660 ADHDers to being very funny and spontaneous. Sometimes this part 117 00:07:56,660 --> 00:08:00,605 may mean that you do things before you think through them, 118 00:08:00,605 --> 00:08:03,665 which can be tricky if you do something you didn't mean to do, 119 00:08:03,665 --> 00:08:07,565 and you have to say you're sorry, so we can think of that 120 00:08:07,565 --> 00:08:13,445 second part of ADHD as the moving and doing part of ADHD. 121 00:08:13,439 --> 00:08:18,209 Jane: And some people who have ADHD have more of a tendency to 122 00:08:18,209 --> 00:08:20,729 have that attention piece of things that you were talking 123 00:08:20,729 --> 00:08:24,764 about it. Some people have more of that hyperactivity, want to 124 00:08:24,764 --> 00:08:28,694 move all the time. Some people have both, but it's all 125 00:08:28,694 --> 00:08:32,384 considered part of the same kind of neurodivergent brain? 126 00:08:32,560 --> 00:08:37,330 Dr. Liz Angoff: Yeah, yeah, it's really interesting because every 127 00:08:37,930 --> 00:08:41,620 ADHDer is a little bit different. They all have things 128 00:08:41,620 --> 00:08:46,825 in common, but it might show up differently for you. So, if you 129 00:08:46,825 --> 00:08:50,995 have an ADHD brain and your friend has an ADHD brain, it 130 00:08:50,995 --> 00:08:54,775 might look really different in both of you. So, for some 131 00:08:54,775 --> 00:08:57,925 people, that moving and doing part of their brain is actually 132 00:08:57,925 --> 00:09:01,735 that they love to talk, and that they might be that they love to 133 00:09:01,735 --> 00:09:04,345 share their ideas, and it might be really hard to keep those 134 00:09:04,345 --> 00:09:09,400 ideas inside for some people. The attention part might mean 135 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:13,600 that they do like have that hyper focus piece. For some 136 00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:16,660 people, it might look like I have a ton of projects that I 137 00:09:16,660 --> 00:09:19,390 want to do all the time, and I love to start things, but it's 138 00:09:19,390 --> 00:09:22,990 really hard to finish them, so it might look a little different 139 00:09:22,990 --> 00:09:24,820 in every kid that's out there. 140 00:09:24,770 --> 00:09:28,640 Jane: The last part of those letters in ADHD stands for 141 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:32,570 disorder, but Dr. Liz doesn't like that part of the name 142 00:09:32,870 --> 00:09:36,290 either, because disorder makes it sound like there's something 143 00:09:36,350 --> 00:09:39,260 that needs to be fixed, and she doesn't agree with that. 144 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:42,930 Dr. Liz Angoff: There is nothing to fix in an ADHD brain. Your 145 00:09:42,930 --> 00:09:48,090 brain is awesome just the way it is. I think that the word 146 00:09:48,090 --> 00:09:52,200 disorder came about because when we didn't know what was going 147 00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:57,900 on, we thought that, or people back in the day thought that, 148 00:09:57,900 --> 00:10:01,710 oh, this is something that's causing a lot of problems; we 149 00:10:01,710 --> 00:10:06,915 should fix it and try and make it go away. We've learned so 150 00:10:06,915 --> 00:10:11,385 much about brains since then, and we've learned how important 151 00:10:11,385 --> 00:10:15,525 neurodiversity is, and how important neurodivergent brains 152 00:10:15,525 --> 00:10:20,475 are to our society, and so we know now that it's a difference, 153 00:10:20,475 --> 00:10:25,500 not a disorder, and so I like the word difference, and the 154 00:10:25,500 --> 00:10:30,720 kids that I work with, we like to talk about our amazingly 155 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:35,550 dynamic, hyper-focusing, different kind of brain, instead 156 00:10:35,550 --> 00:10:39,000 of the traditional way of defining ADHD. 157 00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:43,400 Jane: What do you think about those words for ADHD instead: 158 00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:48,050 Amazingly Dynamic, Hyper-focusing, Different. ADHD. 159 00:10:48,820 --> 00:10:51,970 Paisley: My name is Paisley. I'm seven years old. I'm from Fort 160 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:56,590 Collins, Colorado. My question is, why do people get ADHD? 161 00:10:57,120 --> 00:10:59,310 Dr. Liz Angoff: Well, there are a couple of theories about why 162 00:10:59,310 --> 00:11:04,470 people have ADHD. It turns out that ADHD brains are really 163 00:11:04,470 --> 00:11:08,430 important to the world, because we need these innovative or 164 00:11:08,430 --> 00:11:12,810 creative thinkers to get us out of sticky situations to solve 165 00:11:12,810 --> 00:11:16,770 problems that people face every day, and some of our greatest 166 00:11:16,770 --> 00:11:20,685 inventors and entrepreneurs, or people who start businesses, 167 00:11:20,685 --> 00:11:26,025 have ADHD brains, so they're necessary for our world. And if 168 00:11:26,025 --> 00:11:31,245 we think back to the very olden days, when we were hunting and 169 00:11:31,245 --> 00:11:36,135 gathering our food and looking for new places to live, ADHD 170 00:11:36,135 --> 00:11:39,705 brains tended to be constantly looking around to see what's 171 00:11:39,705 --> 00:11:42,960 happening, and this would have been really helpful to find 172 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:48,030 food. ADHD brains also really like new things, so they tended 173 00:11:48,030 --> 00:11:50,760 to be less scared of investigating new places where 174 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:54,540 it could be better to live, so we actually think that this kind 175 00:11:54,540 --> 00:12:00,990 of brain was really adaptive or helpful for humans, and it has 176 00:12:00,990 --> 00:12:05,100 been for a really long time, and currently we need these ADHD 177 00:12:05,145 --> 00:12:09,195 brains to help us solve new problems, come up with new 178 00:12:09,195 --> 00:12:14,055 ideas, or even bring energy to friends when they feel down, and 179 00:12:14,055 --> 00:12:16,515 we need all kinds of different brains for our society to 180 00:12:16,515 --> 00:12:20,355 thrive. So ADHD is one of those types of brains that we really 181 00:12:20,355 --> 00:12:21,645 need. 182 00:12:21,690 --> 00:12:25,100 Jane: There's evidence that ADHD has been around for as long as 183 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:29,390 there have been people around. It just wasn't called ADHD way 184 00:12:29,570 --> 00:12:33,530 back when. And some of the challenges people with ADHD have 185 00:12:33,680 --> 00:12:36,050 today are related to our modern world. 186 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:40,130 Dr. Liz Angoff: The way that the world is right now is that we go 187 00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:45,910 to school, we have to sit for a very long time. We need to 188 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:49,630 concentrate on very specific things and get certain things 189 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:53,440 done, and so the reason that we've come up with a name for 190 00:12:53,470 --> 00:12:56,680 this type of brain is because this type of brain might need 191 00:12:56,950 --> 00:13:02,460 different things to help to be really successful in the world 192 00:13:02,460 --> 00:13:03,150 that we have right now, 193 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:06,600 Jane: So, what kinds of adaptations or accommodations 194 00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:10,890 might be helpful to people with ADHD brains? Stay tuned, we'll 195 00:13:10,890 --> 00:13:12,360 get into it. 196 00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:12,570 BREAK: BREAK 197 00:13:12,570 --> 00:13:16,080 Jane: This is But Why, A Podcast for Curious Kids. I'm Jane 198 00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:20,190 Lindholm. Today we're talking to Dr. Liz Angoff. She writes books 199 00:13:20,190 --> 00:13:24,150 about neurodivergence and works with kids and families, and 200 00:13:24,150 --> 00:13:28,230 she's helping us understand something called ADHD, one of 201 00:13:28,275 --> 00:13:31,755 the ways some of us have what are thought of as neurodivergent 202 00:13:31,755 --> 00:13:34,605 brains. Here's a question from Zane. 203 00:13:34,635 --> 00:13:39,405 Zane: I'm six years old, I live in Santa Cruz, and my question 204 00:13:39,405 --> 00:13:48,015 is, why do only some people have ADHD instead of all? 205 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:52,430 Dr. Liz Angoff: I love this question so much. What if we had 206 00:13:52,430 --> 00:13:56,690 a world that was all ADHD brains? I mean, how amazing 207 00:13:56,690 --> 00:14:01,550 would that be? The thing is that the reason that we have, you 208 00:14:01,550 --> 00:14:05,570 know, different types of brains is largely because of genetics, 209 00:14:05,570 --> 00:14:09,380 or what our parents, the traits that our parents have passed 210 00:14:09,380 --> 00:14:12,545 down to us, so different characteristics like how tall 211 00:14:12,545 --> 00:14:16,235 you are, or even some parts of your personality, or why you're 212 00:14:16,235 --> 00:14:19,985 so much like your uncle, is you know, like all these different 213 00:14:19,985 --> 00:14:24,545 things that are are related in families, 214 00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:29,040 Jane: and you're talking just about the biological piece of 215 00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:30,990 families, because there are lots of different ways to have 216 00:14:30,990 --> 00:14:34,110 families that maybe your genes aren't related to the other 217 00:14:34,110 --> 00:14:36,915 family members, but you're talking about the pieces, the 218 00:14:36,915 --> 00:14:40,545 actual genetic material that gets passed on to us from two 219 00:14:40,545 --> 00:14:42,435 biological parents. 220 00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:46,060 Dr. Liz Angoff: Exactly, exactly, yeah, lots of different 221 00:14:46,060 --> 00:14:52,150 ways that families can be, and biologically we have have genes 222 00:14:52,150 --> 00:14:55,810 that are passed down from one person to another, and so 223 00:14:55,810 --> 00:14:59,875 chances are that if you have an ADHD brain, somebody in your 224 00:14:59,875 --> 00:15:05,455 biological family likely had ADHD as well, even if it wasn't 225 00:15:05,455 --> 00:15:06,595 named for them. 226 00:15:07,350 --> 00:15:10,710 Quinn: My name is Quinn. I'm seven years old. I live in 227 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:15,360 Newton, Massachusetts. My question is, how does ADHD 228 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:16,380 affect your brain? 229 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:20,570 Dr. Liz Angoff: What's happening in your brain when you have ADHD 230 00:15:20,570 --> 00:15:24,170 is that the way that the parts of your brain work might be a 231 00:15:24,170 --> 00:15:28,010 little bit different, so our brains have all these different 232 00:15:28,010 --> 00:15:32,300 parts, and each part has a really important job. So, 233 00:15:32,300 --> 00:15:34,700 there's parts of your brain that help you understand what you 234 00:15:34,700 --> 00:15:37,220 see, parts of your brain that help you understand what you 235 00:15:37,220 --> 00:15:40,865 hear, parts of your brain that help you with movement and 236 00:15:40,865 --> 00:15:43,895 coordination parts of your brain that help you know where things 237 00:15:43,895 --> 00:15:47,045 are and where your body is in space, and there's a really 238 00:15:47,045 --> 00:15:52,895 important part of your brain right in front that helps you to 239 00:15:52,895 --> 00:15:58,505 pay attention, it helps you make good decisions, it helps you to 240 00:15:58,505 --> 00:16:02,105 regulate or respond to your emotions when you're having big 241 00:16:02,150 --> 00:16:05,810 feelings, and we call this front part of your brain your frontal 242 00:16:05,810 --> 00:16:10,370 lobe, or your executive lobe, and I love the term executive 243 00:16:10,370 --> 00:16:14,810 lobe, because it's like the executive or the boss of your 244 00:16:14,810 --> 00:16:20,270 brain, it is the boss that's helping you figure out what you 245 00:16:20,270 --> 00:16:24,020 need to do and when you need to do it, so that you can get the 246 00:16:24,020 --> 00:16:27,095 task done, just like the boss of a company. 247 00:16:27,020 --> 00:16:29,720 Jane: When you have ADHD, sometimes that part of your 248 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:33,410 brain develops a little differently, or more slowly, so 249 00:16:33,410 --> 00:16:36,650 it might make it a little more challenging for you to pay 250 00:16:36,650 --> 00:16:39,140 attention to something you're not super interested in, for 251 00:16:39,140 --> 00:16:42,560 example, or to sit still when you're being told you're 252 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:46,370 supposed to be quiet, or to pause before doing something 253 00:16:46,370 --> 00:16:49,805 that might not be a great idea, at least not right now. 254 00:16:49,805 --> 00:16:53,255 Sometimes the chemical signals from one part of the brain to 255 00:16:53,255 --> 00:16:57,485 another are also a little different in an ADHD brain, so 256 00:16:57,485 --> 00:17:01,115 you might seek out things that make you feel good right now, as 257 00:17:01,115 --> 00:17:04,145 opposed to feeling like you can be patient. 258 00:17:04,020 --> 00:17:09,480 Jameson: Hi, I'm Jameson. I'm from Virginia. I'm 10 years old, 259 00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:12,945 and I would like to know, what is ADHD, and how do you control 260 00:17:12,945 --> 00:17:13,395 it? 261 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:17,030 Dr. Liz Angoff: I appreciate this question from Jameson, 262 00:17:17,030 --> 00:17:21,860 because sometimes having an ADHD brain can be really tricky or 263 00:17:21,860 --> 00:17:26,690 just hard and tiring. The world's not necessarily built 264 00:17:26,690 --> 00:17:31,820 for ADHD brains, for example, and so it can be tricky to sit 265 00:17:31,820 --> 00:17:34,430 through the school day, or you might say, or do something that 266 00:17:34,430 --> 00:17:37,025 you haven't totally thought through, and so it makes sense 267 00:17:37,025 --> 00:17:41,315 that you would want to control the ADHD, but I think the key 268 00:17:41,315 --> 00:17:46,115 thing here is to learn how to do things in a way that works with 269 00:17:46,115 --> 00:17:50,045 your brain to help it be at its best, rather than thinking about 270 00:17:50,045 --> 00:17:56,345 trying to change your brain, so for example, if you're having 271 00:17:56,345 --> 00:18:00,320 trouble staying focused at school or on your schoolwork for 272 00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:04,280 a long time, you can break things down into tiny parts, so 273 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:07,580 that it's easier to get started and to get finished. And so, 274 00:18:07,580 --> 00:18:09,920 instead of saying I'm going to sit down and do all of my 275 00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:13,430 homework, you might say I'm going to do five math problems 276 00:18:13,430 --> 00:18:16,430 and then check in with my adult, so that you have a check-in 277 00:18:16,430 --> 00:18:20,480 point. If your brain is a brain that tends to act before it 278 00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:24,845 finishes thinking, then you might have a phrase that you say 279 00:18:24,845 --> 00:18:27,875 to yourself, like, what's my plan before you start doing 280 00:18:27,875 --> 00:18:31,295 something. So, for example, before you join a group to play, 281 00:18:31,295 --> 00:18:35,525 you might think, what's my plan, and then pause to think how 282 00:18:35,525 --> 00:18:39,755 you're going to go ask that group of kids to join to join 283 00:18:39,755 --> 00:18:44,405 them. And if your body loves to move, we want it to move. We 284 00:18:44,405 --> 00:18:48,830 want to use fidgets and movement to help your brain stay on. So, 285 00:18:48,830 --> 00:18:52,940 in class, you might have a wiggle stool or a standing desk. 286 00:18:52,940 --> 00:18:55,850 You might have a small object that you can have in your hand, 287 00:18:55,850 --> 00:18:59,360 it's called a fidget, or you might get up every so often and 288 00:18:59,360 --> 00:19:02,690 do some wall push-ups while you're listening to the teacher, 289 00:19:02,690 --> 00:19:06,050 so that because that's going to help your brain stay engaged and 290 00:19:06,050 --> 00:19:12,455 stay in learning mode. I'll say exercise is super helpful for 291 00:19:12,455 --> 00:19:17,645 ADHD brains, and some people also take medication to help 292 00:19:17,645 --> 00:19:21,455 with focus and slowing down to think before they act, and so 293 00:19:21,455 --> 00:19:26,225 that's something that would be a decision with your adults and a 294 00:19:26,225 --> 00:19:29,495 doctor to to help you with, if that's something that could be a 295 00:19:29,495 --> 00:19:34,280 tool in your toolbox as you're building your brain. 296 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:38,140 Jane: How do you know if you have ADHD? Because I think a lot 297 00:19:38,140 --> 00:19:40,990 of us listening now are like, some of this sounds challenging, 298 00:19:40,990 --> 00:19:43,810 and some of it sounds really cool, and some of it sounds 299 00:19:43,810 --> 00:19:47,350 familiar to me, based on my brain, and some of us already 300 00:19:47,350 --> 00:19:50,800 know if we have ADHD or not, because we've worked with a 301 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:54,190 doctor or a medical professional or a psychologist who's talked 302 00:19:54,190 --> 00:19:57,355 to us about it, but some of us are just like, wait a minute, 303 00:19:57,355 --> 00:20:00,745 How do I even know what kind of brain I have? 304 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:06,060 Dr. Liz Angoff: Yeah, so most kids are, or learn that they 305 00:20:06,060 --> 00:20:09,480 have ADHD because they work with a doctor, like your 306 00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:15,090 pediatrician, or they might go see somebody like me who's an 307 00:20:15,090 --> 00:20:18,735 educational psychologist or a neuropsychologist. There's that 308 00:20:18,735 --> 00:20:21,555 word neuro again, that means brain, so someone to help you 309 00:20:21,555 --> 00:20:25,935 understand your brain. And you might do a lot of different 310 00:20:25,935 --> 00:20:31,965 activities that help the doctor to understand how your brain 311 00:20:31,965 --> 00:20:36,165 works with different types of information, how you learn, how 312 00:20:36,165 --> 00:20:39,675 you remember things, how you solve problems, and they might 313 00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:43,260 be looking for a pattern to see, oh, do you solve problems in a 314 00:20:43,260 --> 00:20:46,410 way that ADHD brains solve problems, or do you solve 315 00:20:46,410 --> 00:20:48,930 problems in the way that a different type of brain solves 316 00:20:48,930 --> 00:20:54,180 problems, and so you would learn about your brain by working with 317 00:20:54,180 --> 00:20:58,290 one of those people. Now, I will say, if you're listening to this 318 00:20:58,290 --> 00:21:02,580 and you're a kid and you're thinking, I think that my brain 319 00:21:02,580 --> 00:21:06,825 might work like that, then your next step is to talk to your 320 00:21:06,825 --> 00:21:12,765 parent or talk to your adults to say, I wonder what kind of brain 321 00:21:12,765 --> 00:21:16,425 I have, and to start asking them some questions about how do I 322 00:21:16,425 --> 00:21:20,565 learn what is helpful for me. And then you can talk about your 323 00:21:20,565 --> 00:21:23,985 unique type of brain, whether you have an ADHD brain, a 324 00:21:23,985 --> 00:21:26,490 different type of brain, or there's other words that would 325 00:21:26,490 --> 00:21:29,580 describe your type of neurodiversity. 326 00:21:30,085 --> 00:21:33,145 Jane: Is it useful for all of us to think about what kind of 327 00:21:33,145 --> 00:21:38,545 brains we have? I mean, often we only go to a doctor or we go to 328 00:21:38,545 --> 00:21:41,875 somebody who can help us, who's called a specialist, if there's 329 00:21:41,875 --> 00:21:45,385 a problem or a challenge we need to overcome, but is there a 330 00:21:45,385 --> 00:21:48,775 benefit to all of us thinking about, oh, let me think about 331 00:21:48,775 --> 00:21:51,250 the best ways I learn, let me think about the best ways that I 332 00:21:51,250 --> 00:21:55,000 talk to people and enjoy things or have feelings? 333 00:21:55,270 --> 00:21:57,340 Dr. Liz Angoff: Yeah, well, a fun way to think about your 334 00:21:57,460 --> 00:22:00,130 brain is that all those different parts that I talked 335 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:04,320 about are communicating with each other with special cells 336 00:22:04,470 --> 00:22:09,300 called neurons, there's that neuro term again, and they make 337 00:22:09,390 --> 00:22:13,140 connections in your brain like billions of tiny roads, and so 338 00:22:13,170 --> 00:22:16,920 we can think of our brains as under construction, which means 339 00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:20,720 that we all have highways, or the things that we've built 340 00:22:20,810 --> 00:22:24,110 those roads that we've built, where things, the messages are 341 00:22:24,260 --> 00:22:28,550 going super fast, and we do them really easily. And there are 342 00:22:28,700 --> 00:22:31,670 construction projects that we all have, the things that we are 343 00:22:31,850 --> 00:22:35,540 still building. So maybe that's something that you're working on 344 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:38,570 in class, like you're learning fractions for the first time, 345 00:22:38,690 --> 00:22:41,860 and so it's a new construction project, and maybe that 346 00:22:41,950 --> 00:22:45,250 construction is going smoothly, or maybe it's a tricky 347 00:22:45,430 --> 00:22:48,040 construction project, and you need some help, and you need 348 00:22:48,130 --> 00:22:51,910 some new tools to help build that part of your brain, and so 349 00:22:52,060 --> 00:22:55,450 for yourself and with your adult, you might make a list of 350 00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:59,980 all the things that are highways in your brain, you know what you 351 00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:03,060 love to do what you've worked really hard at, what roads 352 00:23:03,120 --> 00:23:07,140 you've built over time, and you might start to think about 353 00:23:07,230 --> 00:23:10,140 what's under construction right now. What are my construction 354 00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:12,870 projects, and what tools are going to be most helpful for me? 355 00:23:13,740 --> 00:23:19,290 So, not everybody, not everybody might have a specific name for 356 00:23:19,380 --> 00:23:23,960 their type of brain, but I know that you know things that might 357 00:23:23,990 --> 00:23:28,640 be helpful for, for my child, or even for me. As I'm talking to 358 00:23:28,730 --> 00:23:32,750 you guys, I am on a wiggle stool, because I love to move, 359 00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:37,850 and I know that's helpful for my brain. And so we don't need a 360 00:23:37,910 --> 00:23:41,830 specific name to know that a tool is helpful for our brain to 361 00:23:41,860 --> 00:23:42,850 be at its best. 362 00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:46,520 Jane: I really like that idea of all of us thinking about what 363 00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:51,170 our brains need to be best. Maybe that's good homework to 364 00:23:51,170 --> 00:23:54,200 think about how we learn best, what tools we need to be 365 00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:58,580 successful in school, in sports, at home. If there's something 366 00:23:58,580 --> 00:24:01,910 that you need help with, talk to the adults around you, they can 367 00:24:01,910 --> 00:24:05,030 help you figure out what your brain needs and how to get it. 368 00:24:05,075 --> 00:24:08,615 And I'd really love to hear from you, what you already know about 369 00:24:08,615 --> 00:24:12,785 the best ways you learn and stay focused. Do you have tips or 370 00:24:12,785 --> 00:24:16,205 suggestions for us, like always putting your stuff in the same 371 00:24:16,205 --> 00:24:19,265 place, so you don't forget where it is, or breaking up your 372 00:24:19,265 --> 00:24:22,115 homework or chores into smaller chunks, so you don't get 373 00:24:22,115 --> 00:24:24,905 overwhelmed and not even know where to start. That's a 374 00:24:24,905 --> 00:24:29,570 challenge I really have. Sometimes a task feels so big 375 00:24:29,570 --> 00:24:32,840 that I don't even know how to begin, and then I don't. I do 376 00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:37,220 what's called procrastinating, not starting and not starting, 377 00:24:37,220 --> 00:24:41,870 but usually if I think of a small piece that I can handle to 378 00:24:41,870 --> 00:24:45,740 start with, the rest of the project is easier to get into. 379 00:24:45,740 --> 00:24:49,580 It just takes that one small thing to be able to help me get 380 00:24:49,580 --> 00:24:53,585 started, but you may have lots of other tricks, just like you 381 00:24:53,585 --> 00:24:57,605 do with questions. You can send us a voice memo sharing your 382 00:24:57,605 --> 00:25:01,505 best strategies that work for your brain, and that you think 383 00:25:01,505 --> 00:25:05,045 might help other kids work with their brains, and if we get 384 00:25:05,045 --> 00:25:08,855 enough, we'll share them. Dr. Liz had one more thing she 385 00:25:08,855 --> 00:25:10,325 wanted to mention to you. 386 00:25:10,350 --> 00:25:13,980 Dr. Liz Angoff: I think that, regardless of what type of brain 387 00:25:14,070 --> 00:25:17,940 that you have, there's something really important, especially if 388 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:24,470 you have a neurodivergent brain called self compassion, and as 389 00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:27,650 you understand your brain, I think it's really important to 390 00:25:27,710 --> 00:25:30,800 remember that we're all human and we're all going to make 391 00:25:30,890 --> 00:25:34,190 mistakes, and we're all working on those construction projects, 392 00:25:34,370 --> 00:25:38,330 and they can be tricky at times, and learning how to recognize 393 00:25:38,540 --> 00:25:41,110 and repair when you've made a mistake is just such an 394 00:25:41,140 --> 00:25:44,380 important skill, and learning how to talk about the things 395 00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:48,190 that are hard is something that even a lot of adults are still 396 00:25:48,310 --> 00:25:51,130 learning how to do. It's under construction for them too. 397 00:25:52,380 --> 00:25:56,550 Jane: That's the truth. Whether we have ADHD brains or not, we 398 00:25:56,550 --> 00:26:01,080 can all benefit from learning to repair our mistakes and being as 399 00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:05,640 kind to ourselves as we are to other people. Thanks so much to 400 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:08,880 Dr. Liz Angoff for being our guest today. One of her books is 401 00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:12,150 called The Brain Building Book, and another one is called Our 402 00:26:12,150 --> 00:26:17,835 Brains Empowering Neurodivergent Minds. That's it for today. If 403 00:26:17,835 --> 00:26:22,035 you have a question about anything, you can send it to us. 404 00:26:22,035 --> 00:26:25,875 Have an adult help you record yourself asking a question using 405 00:26:25,875 --> 00:26:29,625 an app like Voice Memos on a smartphone. Then have them email 406 00:26:29,625 --> 00:26:34,695 the file to questions@butwhykids.org But Why 407 00:26:34,695 --> 00:26:37,800 is produced by Sarah Baik, Melody Bodette, and me, Jane 408 00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:42,390 Lindholm, at Vermont Public, and distributed by PRX. Our video 409 00:26:42,390 --> 00:26:45,540 producer is Joey Palumbo, and our theme music is by Luke 410 00:26:45,540 --> 00:26:49,140 Reynolds. If you like our show, please have your adults help you 411 00:26:49,140 --> 00:26:52,710 give us a thumbs up, or a review, or a comment on whatever 412 00:26:52,710 --> 00:26:56,160 podcast platform you use to listen to us. It helps other 413 00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:59,040 kids and families find us and helps us keep making the show. 414 00:26:59,820 --> 00:27:03,795 We'll be back in two weeks with an all new episode. Until then, 415 00:27:04,065 --> 00:27:05,565 stay curious!