WEBVTT 00:00:02.080 --> 00:00:04.310 JACK: Governments are hacking into other governments. 00:00:04.310 --> 00:00:08.260 They do it to steal secrets or find how many weapons they have, if they’re planning a 00:00:08.260 --> 00:00:11.320 strike, or if there’s anything else that might be a threat. 00:00:11.320 --> 00:00:15.020 Some nations are much more advanced at security than others. 00:00:15.020 --> 00:00:19.320 One country with advanced cyber-security capabilities is Israel. 00:00:19.320 --> 00:00:20.940 Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. 00:00:20.940 --> 00:00:26.670 PM: Eight years ago my goal was to make Israel one of the five leading cyber powers in the 00:00:26.670 --> 00:00:27.670 world. 00:00:27.670 --> 00:00:28.929 I think we’ve reached that. 00:00:28.929 --> 00:00:32.669 I think we’re actually maybe even further ahead on that list. 00:00:32.669 --> 00:00:34.379 JACK: This is incredible. 00:00:34.379 --> 00:00:38.270 Israel isn’t even as big as the state of New Jersey so for such a small country to 00:00:38.270 --> 00:00:40.630 achieve this is no small task. 00:00:40.630 --> 00:00:44.910 PM: Means we’re punching a bag two-hundred times above our weight. 00:00:44.910 --> 00:00:50.260 Not two times, not ten times, and not even a hundred times. 00:00:50.260 --> 00:00:56.760 Two-hundred times above our weight which means there’s something here that defies numerical 00:00:56.760 --> 00:00:57.760 size. 00:00:57.760 --> 00:01:02.290 JACK: How did such a small country become one of the leaders in the cyber-security space? 00:01:02.290 --> 00:01:05.189 That’s what we’re gonna find out. 00:01:05.189 --> 00:01:14.590 JACK (INTRO): [INTRO MUSIC] These are true stories from the dark side of the internet. 00:01:14.590 --> 00:01:18.430 I’m Jack Rhysider. 00:01:18.430 --> 00:01:22.520 This is Darknet Diaries. 00:01:22.520 --> 00:01:31.520 [INTRO MUSIC ENDS] 00:01:31.520 --> 00:01:37.020 JACK: Israel is a tiny country in the Middle East. 00:01:37.020 --> 00:01:41.390 Most of the countries in the Middle East speak primarily Arabic but not Israel. 00:01:41.390 --> 00:01:46.300 Most of the countries in the Middle East are predominantly Muslim but not Israel. 00:01:46.300 --> 00:01:50.060 Many of the Middle Eastern countries are rich in oil but not Israel. 00:01:50.060 --> 00:01:55.010 It’s almost like Israel is a glitch on the map, a lone island in a sea. 00:01:55.010 --> 00:01:58.020 But you know what happens when a grain of sand gets into an oyster? 00:01:58.020 --> 00:02:03.200 The oyster attacks the sand and tries to get rid of it by secreting substances at it and 00:02:03.200 --> 00:02:08.289 if the sand doesn’t leave, it continues to attack it for years until one day it’s 00:02:08.289 --> 00:02:10.420 a beautiful pearl. 00:02:10.420 --> 00:02:12.540 Israel is under attack. 00:02:12.540 --> 00:02:18.090 [BOMBING] I’m not gonna get into who started what and why there are so many battles going 00:02:18.090 --> 00:02:24.440 on but at this point the cycle of revenge grows louder all the time. 00:02:24.440 --> 00:02:29.480 Because Israel is right in the middle of it all, they need to stay technologically advanced 00:02:29.480 --> 00:02:32.050 or else they risk being taken over. 00:02:32.050 --> 00:02:37.030 One example of using technology to defend the attacks is the Iron Dome. 00:02:37.030 --> 00:02:41.010 Israel frequently sees rockets launched into the country and when this happens the Iron 00:02:41.010 --> 00:02:48.370 Dome kicks into action; [SIRENS] first initiating a siren in the area, then launching a rocket 00:02:48.370 --> 00:02:53.940 that flies directly towards the incoming missile and detonates when it’s near it. 00:02:53.940 --> 00:02:59.490 [EXPLOSIONS] It takes out 90% of incoming rockets this way, and it’s almost an automated 00:02:59.490 --> 00:03:00.490 method. 00:03:00.490 --> 00:03:04.060 It’s pretty impressive because of how high-tech and effective it is. 00:03:04.060 --> 00:03:08.130 This is just one example of how Israel is investing in technology but the whole nation 00:03:08.130 --> 00:03:09.130 is high-tech. 00:03:09.130 --> 00:03:13.239 Compared to the US, Israel has more scientists and technicians per capita than us, they have 00:03:13.239 --> 00:03:16.830 a bigger smart phone penetration percentage than us, and there’s a bigger percent of 00:03:16.830 --> 00:03:18.670 people online compared to the US. 00:03:18.670 --> 00:03:22.590 It’s one of the most innovative countries in the world and when you find a place this 00:03:22.590 --> 00:03:26.349 rich in technology you’ll also find information security. 00:03:26.349 --> 00:03:30.660 Israel has a few hacker and cyber-security conferences and during some of these conferences 00:03:30.660 --> 00:03:32.129 the Prime Minster gave a keynote. 00:03:32.129 --> 00:03:35.879 COURT: [APPLAUSE] Welcome Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, Prime Minister of Israel. 00:03:35.879 --> 00:03:40.520 JACK: During the talk he explained a new complex they’re building in the desert in a town 00:03:40.520 --> 00:03:42.709 called Be’er Sheva. 00:03:42.709 --> 00:03:46.250 PM: It’s called CyberSpark. 00:03:46.250 --> 00:03:50.770 It’s a cyber-park and it’s situated in Be’er Sheva. 00:03:50.770 --> 00:03:55.290 We’re moving our NSA right into that campus. 00:03:55.290 --> 00:03:57.330 JACK: Our NSA. 00:03:57.330 --> 00:04:01.010 The Israeli government has its own version of the NSA. 00:04:01.010 --> 00:04:02.580 This fascinates me. 00:04:02.580 --> 00:04:04.590 I want to know more about this. 00:04:04.590 --> 00:04:07.130 He goes on to explain this CyberSpark further. 00:04:07.130 --> 00:04:10.890 PM: It’s a peculiar one because it has several things adjoining each other and I’ll point 00:04:10.890 --> 00:04:11.890 them out to you. 00:04:11.890 --> 00:04:14.930 First thing is we have the Unit 8200 headquarters, our collection agency. 00:04:14.930 --> 00:04:16.959 Here’s the university. 00:04:16.959 --> 00:04:26.090 Railroad fast line to Tel Aviv University is here, the CERT center here. 00:04:26.090 --> 00:04:32.660 JACK: He just pointed to a map and said here is where Unit 8200, their collection agency, 00:04:32.660 --> 00:04:36.979 is being built, also explaining that this complex has a university, the Israeli Computer 00:04:36.979 --> 00:04:41.620 Emergency Readiness Team, and a bunch of buildings specifically built for cyber-security companies 00:04:41.620 --> 00:04:43.300 to work at. 00:04:43.300 --> 00:04:48.150 Imagine an area of six city blocks that’s roped off for just cyber-security stuff, a 00:04:48.150 --> 00:04:52.819 place where commercial government and education will all live in the same campus with a train 00:04:52.819 --> 00:04:55.479 station smack in the center of it. 00:04:55.479 --> 00:04:57.500 How cool is that? 00:04:57.500 --> 00:05:01.819 This whole complex is amazing but I’m fascinated with the [00:05:00] intelligence-collection 00:05:01.819 --> 00:05:04.199 agency, Unit 8200. 00:05:04.199 --> 00:05:08.369 Later on the Prime Minster commented about the NSA and then said… 00:05:08.369 --> 00:05:11.779 PM: If you don’t know what NSA is, it’s America’s 8200 Unit. 00:05:11.779 --> 00:05:13.860 JACK: Unit 8200. 00:05:13.860 --> 00:05:17.009 Now we know the secret name of the Israeli intelligence-collection agency. 00:05:17.009 --> 00:05:19.529 But wait, it can’t be secret. 00:05:19.529 --> 00:05:22.629 The Prime Minister just said its name to everyone at this conference. 00:05:22.629 --> 00:05:27.900 Well, someone must have let the cat out of the bag before the Prime Minister. 00:05:27.900 --> 00:05:32.020 [MUSIC] Unit 8200 was started way back in the 1950s. 00:05:32.020 --> 00:05:36.870 It was a small group of people who got ahold of some used surplus spy gear from the US 00:05:36.870 --> 00:05:42.009 and they put antennas on hills and bugged phone lines to try to pick up on covert communications. 00:05:42.009 --> 00:05:44.490 Back then it was a secret simply because the unit was so small. 00:05:44.490 --> 00:05:51.110 It wasn’t even called 8200 yet; something like Unit 515 and then changed to Unit 848 00:05:51.110 --> 00:05:56.500 and during the Yom Kippur War in 1973, one of the intelligence officers from Unit 848 00:05:56.500 --> 00:05:58.789 was captured by Syria. 00:05:58.789 --> 00:06:03.129 This gave Syria a ton of information about this secret unit. 00:06:03.129 --> 00:06:08.039 At that point Israel had to reboot the unit, changing the name to 8200, and they gave it 00:06:08.039 --> 00:06:10.509 a boost of resources and people. 00:06:10.509 --> 00:06:15.539 Then Unit 8200 became a top-secret organization in the military. 00:06:15.539 --> 00:06:19.610 Members of 8200 couldn’t even tell their parents what unit they were serving in. 00:06:19.610 --> 00:06:26.740 The number was forbidden to say out loud and 8200 began rapidly growing its strengths and 00:06:26.740 --> 00:06:27.970 capabilities. 00:06:27.970 --> 00:06:34.699 [MUSIC] As the world became more connected and secrets became more exposed, it seemed 00:06:34.699 --> 00:06:40.499 like the world somehow found out about it and so in 2011 a book was written called Startup 00:06:40.499 --> 00:06:46.199 Nation and it had a whole chapter about what Unit 8200 is all about. 00:06:46.199 --> 00:06:50.909 This surprised a lot of members but since this book came out, it’s now been publically 00:06:50.909 --> 00:06:53.899 known what this unit does and how it operates. 00:06:53.899 --> 00:07:00.469 Except, I never heard of it until now so I became curious to learn as much as I could 00:07:00.469 --> 00:07:04.629 about Israeli’s NSA, or Unit 8200. 00:07:04.629 --> 00:07:08.569 According to the book, the central mission of the unit is to save lives, prevent terror, 00:07:08.569 --> 00:07:14.210 and other attacks and Unit 8200 does that mostly using computers and electronics. 00:07:14.210 --> 00:07:18.729 What an intelligence-collection agency does is try to gather information about any plans 00:07:18.729 --> 00:07:22.189 for upcoming attacks or threats against the nation. 00:07:22.189 --> 00:07:25.789 They do this by spying on the enemies and listening to the wires. 00:07:25.789 --> 00:07:30.139 When the military leaders become aware that someone is planning something, this intelligence 00:07:30.139 --> 00:07:31.339 can save lives. 00:07:31.339 --> 00:07:36.330 But these attacks against Israel aren’t just in the form of rockets and physical assaults. 00:07:36.330 --> 00:07:40.210 PM: Today warfare has changed again, dramatically. 00:07:40.210 --> 00:07:48.179 I don’t mean just physical warfare; I’m talking about the capacity and it’s not 00:07:48.179 --> 00:07:49.179 imaginary. 00:07:49.179 --> 00:07:52.789 It’s not futuristic and it’s not exaggerated. 00:07:52.789 --> 00:07:59.919 It’s moving very rapidly to a situation where with a click of a button you can bring 00:07:59.919 --> 00:08:09.129 down nations to their knees very rapidly if you so desire and if you’re willing to take 00:08:09.129 --> 00:08:10.129 the risks. 00:08:10.129 --> 00:08:13.389 Because every system can be hacked. 00:08:13.389 --> 00:08:20.389 JACK: [MUSIC] While Hamas may be launching rockets in Israel, another country is attacking 00:08:20.389 --> 00:08:21.559 Israel over the internet. 00:08:21.559 --> 00:08:29.119 PM: I want to be clear that the party behind the cyber-attacks against Israel is first 00:08:29.119 --> 00:08:34.870 and foremost Iran, including the Hamas attacks. 00:08:34.870 --> 00:08:36.751 Iran supports all our enemies. 00:08:36.751 --> 00:08:43.890 Iran is the source of most of the attacks that are launched against Israel and we are 00:08:43.890 --> 00:08:46.400 not their only targets in the cyber-field. 00:08:46.400 --> 00:08:54.280 Iran and its proxies take advantage of the security and anonymity of cyber-space to attack 00:08:54.280 --> 00:08:57.380 many other countries around the world. 00:08:57.380 --> 00:08:59.010 JACK: Whoa. 00:08:59.010 --> 00:09:00.560 I think it’s time to call Israel. 00:09:00.560 --> 00:09:01.740 SHIRA: Hello, everyone. 00:09:01.740 --> 00:09:02.920 I’m Shira Shamban. 00:09:02.920 --> 00:09:04.260 JACK: This is Shira. 00:09:04.260 --> 00:09:08.530 She spent thirteen years in the Israeli military and she’s going to help us understand more 00:09:08.530 --> 00:09:09.670 about Unit 8200. 00:09:09.670 --> 00:09:14.700 She currently heads the security research team for a company called Dome9 in Tel Aviv. 00:09:14.700 --> 00:09:17.360 Okay, so here’s the thing about Israeli military. 00:09:17.360 --> 00:09:19.000 SHIRA: Military is mandatory. 00:09:19.000 --> 00:09:23.240 JACK: [MUSIC] When people turn eighteen they must serve in the military for two years and 00:09:23.240 --> 00:09:24.240 eight months. 00:09:24.240 --> 00:09:25.260 SHIRA: For men and women. 00:09:25.260 --> 00:09:28.970 It used to be two years for women and three years for men. 00:09:28.970 --> 00:09:31.690 Now it’s two years and eight months for everyone. 00:09:31.690 --> 00:09:35.470 JACK: Mandatory military is not actually that common for nations around the world so this 00:09:35.470 --> 00:09:37.150 again makes Israel unique. 00:09:37.150 --> 00:09:41.000 There’s something to be said about the discipline and perspective you get from serving in the 00:09:41.000 --> 00:09:42.000 military. 00:09:42.000 --> 00:09:43.250 It toughens you up. 00:09:43.250 --> 00:09:47.720 But this also means people are only teenagers when they enter into Unit 8200, one of the 00:09:47.720 --> 00:09:50.350 most prestigious cyber-intelligence agencies of the world. 00:09:50.350 --> 00:09:52.860 You don’t get to decide where you’ll serve, though. 00:09:52.860 --> 00:09:54.750 The military decides that for you. 00:09:54.750 --> 00:09:58.080 To help them decide where you’ll go, it starts with a test. 00:09:58.080 --> 00:10:02.330 SHIRA: You kind of take a test that is maybe [00:10:00] similar to SATs. 00:10:02.330 --> 00:10:08.510 Again, everyone takes the same test so it doesn’t matter where you grew up, who your 00:10:08.510 --> 00:10:15.400 parents are, if you chose to learn a computer science or art in high school. 00:10:15.400 --> 00:10:19.780 Everyone takes the same tests and from there, they start their path. 00:10:19.780 --> 00:10:24.700 By the way, you’re not supposed to do any preparation to that test. 00:10:24.700 --> 00:10:27.890 You just come as you are and take it. 00:10:27.890 --> 00:10:36.550 If you take it seriously then you might get on the right path to intelligence or to the 00:10:36.550 --> 00:10:39.380 air force or anything else that you want to do. 00:10:39.380 --> 00:10:43.680 JACK: [MUSIC] This test is given to everyone at seventeen years old, one year before going 00:10:43.680 --> 00:10:45.170 into the military. 00:10:45.170 --> 00:10:50.080 One of the goals that this test aims to do is figure out which students are “rosh katan” 00:10:50.080 --> 00:10:52.060 and which are “rosh gadol”. 00:10:52.060 --> 00:10:56.160 These are Hebrew terms translated to mean “little head” and “big head.” 00:10:56.160 --> 00:11:00.610 Those who are rosh katan, or little head, will do only what’s asked of them and sometimes 00:11:00.610 --> 00:11:01.670 even less than that. 00:11:01.670 --> 00:11:06.320 They are obedient and good at following direct orders, kind of like how we want our students 00:11:06.320 --> 00:11:11.350 in schools to do in the US; learn the subject, take the test, don’t challenge authority, 00:11:11.350 --> 00:11:13.790 and get a passing grade. 00:11:13.790 --> 00:11:19.420 But Israel is very interested in students who exhibit rosh gadol, or big head. 00:11:19.420 --> 00:11:24.130 People who have this often do more than what’s asked of them, finishing their work and then 00:11:24.130 --> 00:11:28.850 going on to do extra credit or help others finish their work, or volunteer to do more 00:11:28.850 --> 00:11:29.850 work. 00:11:29.850 --> 00:11:33.870 They often challenge the status quo, asking things like why it’s done this way and trying 00:11:33.870 --> 00:11:35.500 to rethink new ways to do it. 00:11:35.500 --> 00:11:40.290 SHIRA: I was always that kind of person who volunteers and does a little more and goes 00:11:40.290 --> 00:11:42.430 to the scouts and so on. 00:11:42.430 --> 00:11:44.710 JACK: Rosh gadol. 00:11:44.710 --> 00:11:46.980 People like this are encouraged in Israel. 00:11:46.980 --> 00:11:50.650 They have chutzpah, the audacity to do things that nobody asked them to do. 00:11:50.650 --> 00:11:55.840 They were able to think outside the box, on their own, with little guidance and support. 00:11:55.840 --> 00:12:00.350 People like this are constantly reinventing the way everything is done and improving methods, 00:12:00.350 --> 00:12:01.970 technologies, and tactics. 00:12:01.970 --> 00:12:06.190 In the American military it’s not a good idea to challenge your leaders but in the 00:12:06.190 --> 00:12:10.900 Israeli military, soldiers with rosh gadol are encouraged to challenge their leaders. 00:12:10.900 --> 00:12:12.690 Both personality types are very important. 00:12:12.690 --> 00:12:17.240 You need diligent workers to be able to follow orders and carry out tasks, but you also need 00:12:17.240 --> 00:12:21.320 people who can make strategic decisions and lead others. 00:12:21.320 --> 00:12:25.260 Unit 8200 specifically seeks out those with rosh gadol. 00:12:25.260 --> 00:12:28.120 Shira had this so they made her takes some intelligence tests. 00:12:28.120 --> 00:12:31.740 SHIRA: I knew I wanted to have a meaningful experience. 00:12:31.740 --> 00:12:37.250 I wanted to do the best on the test but I wasn’t interested in particular in intelligence, 00:12:37.250 --> 00:12:45.260 and I was a little surprised I got more and more tests directing me into the arms of the 00:12:45.260 --> 00:12:46.260 intelligence. 00:12:46.260 --> 00:12:51.060 But I didn’t know this was going to happen to me and I didn’t plan for this to happen 00:12:51.060 --> 00:12:52.060 to me. 00:12:52.060 --> 00:12:54.800 JACK: All eighteen year olds in Israel must join the military which means the Israeli 00:12:54.800 --> 00:12:58.690 Defence Force, or IDF, gets to review all the exams and choose the very best of the 00:12:58.690 --> 00:13:01.850 best to be put in the most elite units. 00:13:01.850 --> 00:13:06.410 Compare that to the US where the opposite is true; the US hopes the best of the best 00:13:06.410 --> 00:13:08.120 chooses them. 00:13:08.120 --> 00:13:09.530 Shira was doing good. 00:13:09.530 --> 00:13:10.530 They gave her more tests. 00:13:10.530 --> 00:13:14.340 SHIRA: They tell you that these are tests for intelligence but they don’t tell you 00:13:14.340 --> 00:13:16.610 to what kind of role this is. 00:13:16.610 --> 00:13:19.210 I took many different kinds of tests. 00:13:19.210 --> 00:13:26.020 Some of them were testing my language skills and some of them were testing my ability to 00:13:26.020 --> 00:13:32.820 understand the text I was reading, or to find the important thing in the text. 00:13:32.820 --> 00:13:35.680 Some of them were checking general knowledge. 00:13:35.680 --> 00:13:43.730 At no point was I aware as to what’s going to happen to me, even on the interviews they 00:13:43.730 --> 00:13:46.080 had, they were very, very general. 00:13:46.080 --> 00:13:51.779 Like, let’s think about a problem and how are you going to approach it? 00:13:51.779 --> 00:13:59.290 Or let’s think about a puzzle where you don’t know how the finalized picture is 00:13:59.290 --> 00:14:00.290 going to look like. 00:14:00.290 --> 00:14:04.100 How are you going to do that? 00:14:04.100 --> 00:14:06.860 They gave me very, very general questions. 00:14:06.860 --> 00:14:08.740 JACK: Then there are a series of interviews. 00:14:08.740 --> 00:14:11.750 You meet with the recruiters to tell them about yourself. 00:14:11.750 --> 00:14:15.900 They learn about your dreams and desires in life and what you’ve done and experienced. 00:14:15.900 --> 00:14:19.570 If you say you volunteer then they might ask what challenges you’ve had with that and 00:14:19.570 --> 00:14:21.740 if you prefer working alone or in groups. 00:14:21.740 --> 00:14:26.040 SHIRA: This is very similar to questions you might get asked when you’re looking for 00:14:26.040 --> 00:14:27.420 a job. 00:14:27.420 --> 00:14:31.950 You might get asked what did you do when you and your boss didn’t get along, how did 00:14:31.950 --> 00:14:34.020 you handle so many projects? 00:14:34.020 --> 00:14:38.910 JACK: Shira did all her interviews, completed all her tests, and did really well. 00:14:38.910 --> 00:14:43.510 Unit 8200 only picks from the top 1% of all candidates. 00:14:43.510 --> 00:14:45.220 Shira didn’t get picked by them. 00:14:45.220 --> 00:14:49.990 SHIRA: There was an analyst in the central analysis unit. 00:14:49.990 --> 00:14:54.610 It’s the equivalent of I don’t know, maybe something like the CIA. 00:14:54.610 --> 00:14:58.740 JACK: Even if you’re chosen to work in intelligence you still have to do basic training, a boot 00:14:58.740 --> 00:14:59.740 camp. 00:14:59.740 --> 00:15:03.420 So off with whatever clothes you used to [00:15:00] wear and on goes your uniform. 00:15:03.420 --> 00:15:07.990 Training is very physical; a lot of running, exercise, and even practicing using weapons. 00:15:07.990 --> 00:15:12.560 When that’s over, you join your unit and almost immediately you’re given complicated 00:15:12.560 --> 00:15:14.020 tasks to complete. 00:15:14.020 --> 00:15:15.180 Shira was given a task. 00:15:15.180 --> 00:15:20.710 SHIRA: You write analysis about different topics that get all the way to the decision-makers. 00:15:20.710 --> 00:15:28.700 I remember one case that I had to write something about an event that was going on on that days 00:15:28.700 --> 00:15:31.790 and I knew he got that piece of paper that I wrote. 00:15:31.790 --> 00:15:34.080 I couldn’t leave any personal note there. 00:15:34.080 --> 00:15:35.480 It was very, very professional. 00:15:35.480 --> 00:15:40.740 Here are the details about what had happened, and so on. 00:15:40.740 --> 00:15:45.250 You feel very meaningful at a very young age. 00:15:45.250 --> 00:15:48.660 JACK: [MUSIC] Shira wanted more from the military. 00:15:48.660 --> 00:15:52.700 She wanted to have the experience be meaningful and impactful on her life. 00:15:52.700 --> 00:15:56.120 She thought there could be more that she could do and got an idea. 00:15:56.120 --> 00:15:59.910 SHIRA: I know I’m going to go to officer training. 00:15:59.910 --> 00:16:01.140 No one told me I was going to. 00:16:01.140 --> 00:16:04.450 This is just something I decided that I’m going to do. 00:16:04.450 --> 00:16:06.000 JACK: Rosh gadol. 00:16:06.000 --> 00:16:10.540 SHIRA: It wasn’t very easy but I managed to do that. 00:16:10.540 --> 00:16:12.990 JACK: Upon becoming an officer you get reassigned. 00:16:12.990 --> 00:16:16.760 You’re given a new role for whatever the military needs at the time. 00:16:16.760 --> 00:16:19.650 Her new assignment was to be in charge of the combat intelligence. 00:16:19.650 --> 00:16:29.290 SHIRA: I was in charge of the online intelligence and to close the loop between the forces that 00:16:29.290 --> 00:16:35.040 are deployed and the intelligence that we’re getting from 8200 and from other units at 00:16:35.040 --> 00:16:36.040 the time. 00:16:36.040 --> 00:16:38.940 This was very stressful, very online. 00:16:38.940 --> 00:16:45.350 You need to have a clear understanding about all the relevant intelligence that we have 00:16:45.350 --> 00:16:50.960 right now and where are the forces deployed right now, or where should we deploy them 00:16:50.960 --> 00:16:54.610 in order to stop the terrorist, and so on. 00:16:54.610 --> 00:17:00.090 JACK: Shira began working with 8200, gathering whatever intelligence they had and providing 00:17:00.090 --> 00:17:04.390 it to the combat troops in the battlefield, and also getting requests from the combat 00:17:04.390 --> 00:17:07.030 units and asking 8200 to look into it. 00:17:07.030 --> 00:17:11.209 It’s important that the combat units know where the enemy is and where they plan on 00:17:11.209 --> 00:17:12.429 going next. 00:17:12.429 --> 00:17:17.610 This way the attacks can be stopped before they’re carried out and can save lives. 00:17:17.610 --> 00:17:22.639 This is a stressful and demanding job, prioritizing requests and moving a lot of information around 00:17:22.639 --> 00:17:23.639 very quickly. 00:17:23.639 --> 00:17:34.649 SHIRA: At that point I actually finished my mandatory service but I still had the feeling 00:17:34.649 --> 00:17:39.659 that I didn’t have enough and I wasn’t sure what do I want to do. 00:17:39.659 --> 00:17:47.770 I went on an interview to become – to join 8200, the central production center where 00:17:47.770 --> 00:17:49.769 they produce intelligence. 00:17:49.769 --> 00:17:52.669 It’s a big factory of intelligence. 00:17:52.669 --> 00:17:55.169 I managed to get accepted. 00:17:55.169 --> 00:18:01.570 [MUSIC] This is when I started my 8200 part of my career. 00:18:01.570 --> 00:18:03.799 Very quickly I caught up. 00:18:03.799 --> 00:18:07.889 Within a couple of months I was just like everyone else. 00:18:07.889 --> 00:18:14.360 One thing that the military and the intelligence specifically knows how to do, is to quickly 00:18:14.360 --> 00:18:20.559 train people and make them professionals on a certain area, on a certain topic. 00:18:20.559 --> 00:18:24.889 JACK: Training new members of Unit 8200 is an art form of its own. 00:18:24.889 --> 00:18:27.840 College dissertations could be written entirely about this. 00:18:27.840 --> 00:18:34.580 SHIRA: We take teenagers, we take high school graduates, and we only have less than three 00:18:34.580 --> 00:18:41.309 years to train them, to make them useful, to actually make use out of them and then 00:18:41.309 --> 00:18:43.690 to say goodbye. 00:18:43.690 --> 00:18:51.700 We only have less than three years to do that, so training has to be very good and very quick. 00:18:51.700 --> 00:18:58.190 This is a great art and it starts by recruiting the right people. 00:18:58.190 --> 00:19:02.809 JACK: You can imagine the intensity of the training in order to get these new soldiers 00:19:02.809 --> 00:19:07.330 to be valuable assets to one of the most elite intelligence-gathering units in the world. 00:19:07.330 --> 00:19:11.951 We’re talking eighteen year olds here who only have a high school diploma and they need 00:19:11.951 --> 00:19:14.529 to become a value add to the NSA. 00:19:14.529 --> 00:19:18.850 Every new Unit 8200 new recruit first has to do their basic training, that running and 00:19:18.850 --> 00:19:20.820 jumping, and shooting and stuff. 00:19:20.820 --> 00:19:24.620 After that they keep their military uniforms on and go to class. 00:19:24.620 --> 00:19:29.549 SHIRA: After you do the boot camp there is an intelligence school and all intelligence 00:19:29.549 --> 00:19:31.779 training are happening there. 00:19:31.779 --> 00:19:35.220 You go there to the course you were selected to do. 00:19:35.220 --> 00:19:38.330 The course trains you for a specific role. 00:19:38.330 --> 00:19:40.580 You have many different kinds of roles. 00:19:40.580 --> 00:19:49.519 Some are more technological, some has to do more with languages and within that few months, 00:19:49.519 --> 00:19:55.039 yes, you sit in a classroom most of the day and you’re being taught everything you need 00:19:55.039 --> 00:19:58.820 to know for I don’t know, twelve hours a day. 00:19:58.820 --> 00:20:01.850 JACK: Shira didn’t tell me what training happens [00:20:00] there or even what kind 00:20:01.850 --> 00:20:05.619 of classes there are, so I’m gonna take some educated guesses here as to what they 00:20:05.619 --> 00:20:06.739 do. 00:20:06.739 --> 00:20:10.369 First I think they’re probably trained on how to use some equipment; antennas, radios, 00:20:10.369 --> 00:20:13.710 internal network, computers, and lots of different software. 00:20:13.710 --> 00:20:18.529 Then I think they teach you how to teach yourself where to find answers when you get lost. 00:20:18.529 --> 00:20:23.601 Have you ever been given a task at work and you say I was never trained on this, and because 00:20:23.601 --> 00:20:25.519 of that you just don’t do it? 00:20:25.519 --> 00:20:28.779 That’s a completely unacceptable attitude for 8200. 00:20:28.779 --> 00:20:33.749 They’re purposely given tasks that they have no training whatsoever on and they have 00:20:33.749 --> 00:20:34.799 to figure it out. 00:20:34.799 --> 00:20:38.269 They have to learn how to be good at figuring out things they have no knowledge of. 00:20:38.269 --> 00:20:42.600 I imagine it’s kind of like learning how to run in pitch darkness. 00:20:42.600 --> 00:20:45.989 During some training exercises you don’t even understand what you just did to complete 00:20:45.989 --> 00:20:49.110 the objectives until it’s all over and you review your work. 00:20:49.110 --> 00:20:53.080 Yes, there are a lot of reviews that you must do. 00:20:53.080 --> 00:20:54.210 Why did you make this decision? 00:20:54.210 --> 00:20:57.019 Why didn’t you consider this or use that resource? 00:20:57.019 --> 00:21:00.249 Then I believe they do training simulations where you have to complete a very rigorous 00:21:00.249 --> 00:21:05.529 task with very little resources in a very short amount of time, putting you in an intense 00:21:05.529 --> 00:21:10.149 and high-pressure situation where you have to learn how to perform effectively with a 00:21:10.149 --> 00:21:11.149 cool head. 00:21:11.149 --> 00:21:14.029 I’ll paint a picture a little clearer for you. 00:21:14.029 --> 00:21:15.090 Remember these famous words? 00:21:15.090 --> 00:21:17.320 APOLLO: Okay, Houston, we have a problem here. 00:21:17.320 --> 00:21:22.190 JACK: When astronauts aboard Apollo 13 did one last systems check before heading to bed, 00:21:22.190 --> 00:21:27.179 they heard a loud bang and found one oxygen tank was reading empty. 00:21:27.179 --> 00:21:30.950 Fuel cells were failing and the rest of the oxygen was emptying fast. 00:21:30.950 --> 00:21:35.429 The situation quickly grew worse and the crew had only minutes left to live. 00:21:35.429 --> 00:21:37.920 APOLLO: Okay Houston, are you still reading me? 00:21:37.920 --> 00:21:38.920 HOUSTON: That’s affirmative. 00:21:38.920 --> 00:21:39.920 We’re reading you. 00:21:39.920 --> 00:21:43.540 We’re trying to come up with some good ideas here for you. 00:21:43.540 --> 00:21:46.420 JACK: The NASA team back in Houston had to act quickly. 00:21:46.420 --> 00:21:49.779 A small team locked themselves in a room to try to figure out a plan. 00:21:49.779 --> 00:21:53.100 The pressure to find a solution was enormous. 00:21:53.100 --> 00:21:57.009 Where are you going to get extra oxygen and fuel in space? 00:21:57.009 --> 00:21:59.360 Not only is the mission at risk but lives are, too. 00:21:59.360 --> 00:22:05.650 The clock was ticking fast but this small team had trained exhaustively for this moment. 00:22:05.650 --> 00:22:09.659 Not this exact problem, but this exact moment. 00:22:09.659 --> 00:22:14.739 [MUSIC] They had already been working together for years and knew each other very well. 00:22:14.739 --> 00:22:17.289 They practiced solving problems just like this. 00:22:17.289 --> 00:22:21.450 They’re used to solving problems with limited resources that should be on board but now 00:22:21.450 --> 00:22:26.399 are gone, and they’re used to finding out-of-the-box solutions to fix major issues. 00:22:26.399 --> 00:22:28.390 This wasn’t a drill though. 00:22:28.390 --> 00:22:33.409 This was a lifesaving rescue plan and they got the astronauts home. 00:22:33.409 --> 00:22:39.289 Exactly how the NASA scientists trained for this moment is very likely how the 8200 trains 00:22:39.289 --> 00:22:40.330 their soldiers. 00:22:40.330 --> 00:22:46.580 They need small teams to come up with genius solutions with limited resources and on time. 00:22:46.580 --> 00:22:50.590 Whatever that training consists of at NASA, that’s what I believe is the kind of training 00:22:50.590 --> 00:22:53.179 that’s going on in Unit 8200. 00:22:53.179 --> 00:22:55.239 To say it’s intense is an understatement. 00:22:55.239 --> 00:22:58.549 Shira wouldn’t tell me exactly what tasks are performed in 8200. 00:22:58.549 --> 00:23:05.230 That’s a secret, but she gave a few clues and several online sources did explain more. 00:23:05.230 --> 00:23:08.159 First we need to understand what the goals are of intelligence-gathering. 00:23:08.159 --> 00:23:15.100 SHIRA: Intelligence comes to answer a question and the decision makers might, yes, they might 00:23:15.100 --> 00:23:20.080 have some questions and they would need our help to get an answer. 00:23:20.080 --> 00:23:25.799 When we get a question we try to do everything in our power to answer that question. 00:23:25.799 --> 00:23:28.539 You go and look for the answer anywhere you can. 00:23:28.539 --> 00:23:33.120 JACK: Unit 8200 is a signals collection unit, or SIGINT for short. 00:23:33.120 --> 00:23:37.220 This means they’re actively listening and watching for any information the enemy has 00:23:37.220 --> 00:23:38.220 created. 00:23:38.220 --> 00:23:41.800 They’ll read enemy newspapers, listen to enemy radio, look through documents, listen 00:23:41.800 --> 00:23:45.059 to phone calls, tap network connections, and more. 00:23:45.059 --> 00:23:49.070 They look through this trying to find anything that may be a threat or information about 00:23:49.070 --> 00:23:54.480 a target so 8200 members have to have excellent comprehension skills to be able to quickly 00:23:54.480 --> 00:23:57.679 read documents and look for specific information they need. 00:23:57.679 --> 00:24:01.200 A lot of these communications will be in foreign languages, too. 00:24:01.200 --> 00:24:05.249 8200 is also dealing with a lot of code-making and code-breaking. 00:24:05.249 --> 00:24:09.350 This is making sure their own troops’ communication is secure enough that the enemy can’t listen 00:24:09.350 --> 00:24:14.919 to them, and then also working feverishly hard to break encryption on enemy transmissions. 00:24:14.919 --> 00:24:18.869 Sometimes you need to go deeper to dig up some really good information so you may need 00:24:18.869 --> 00:24:23.080 to hack into an enemy network or computer to gather that data. 00:24:23.080 --> 00:24:28.840 SHIRA: [MUSIC] Today military combat might not happen in the physical domain. 00:24:28.840 --> 00:24:31.559 It might happen in the cyber-domain. 00:24:31.559 --> 00:24:36.659 JACK: There’s the sense in 8200 that there’s no option for failure because often the missions 00:24:36.659 --> 00:24:37.799 are life or death. 00:24:37.799 --> 00:24:39.389 If you fail, people die. 00:24:39.389 --> 00:24:40.980 If you choose wrong, people die. 00:24:40.980 --> 00:24:42.999 If you aren’t good enough, people die. 00:24:42.999 --> 00:24:46.200 Members are extremely driven to succeed any way they can. 00:24:46.200 --> 00:24:50.610 The pressure is enormous. 00:24:50.610 --> 00:24:55.049 Some online articles tell stories that Unit 8200 can infiltrate a terrorist cell by gaining 00:24:55.049 --> 00:24:59.759 access to all their communications; cell phone towers, text messages, phones, e-mails, and 00:24:59.759 --> 00:25:00.759 more. 00:25:00.759 --> 00:25:03.389 Once you’re in [00:25:00] a smart phone, you might be able to enable the camera or 00:25:03.389 --> 00:25:07.799 microphone or get the GPS coordinates and know exactly where your target is and what 00:25:07.799 --> 00:25:09.080 they’re doing. 00:25:09.080 --> 00:25:13.619 This can be passed on to the combat troops to get up to the second information. 00:25:13.619 --> 00:25:15.730 Consider Operation Orchard. 00:25:15.730 --> 00:25:18.980 This was kept secret for ten years but it’s now been unveiled. 00:25:18.980 --> 00:25:20.269 Here’s what happened. 00:25:20.269 --> 00:25:27.159 In 2007 Syria was believed to be building a nuclear facility so Unit 8200 put the location 00:25:27.159 --> 00:25:31.279 on their watch list, photographing it, finding who’s coming in and out, watching what deliveries 00:25:31.279 --> 00:25:34.200 are made, and listening to any chatter about the facility. 00:25:34.200 --> 00:25:39.510 Eventually enough intelligence was collected and the Israeli military decided to strike. 00:25:39.510 --> 00:25:43.789 They deployed fighter jets during the cover of darkness but that wasn’t enough. 00:25:43.789 --> 00:25:47.799 The jets flew low, below the radar, but that still wasn’t enough. 00:25:47.799 --> 00:25:51.460 Syria had an air defense system that could still detect these jets. 00:25:51.460 --> 00:25:56.289 Another jet came with and an electronic warfare aircraft. 00:25:56.289 --> 00:26:00.840 This jet was somehow able to trick the Syrian air defense system to display the skies are 00:26:00.840 --> 00:26:03.990 clear and there’s no jets flying overhead. 00:26:03.990 --> 00:26:05.900 This was enough. 00:26:05.900 --> 00:26:10.750 Israeli fighter jets flew in, bombed the facility, and got out before anyone knew what happened. 00:26:10.750 --> 00:26:12.889 No alarms. 00:26:12.889 --> 00:26:17.669 Rumor has it that 8200 was responsible for using that electronic warfare aircraft to 00:26:17.669 --> 00:26:21.390 disable their air defense system, but that’s just a rumor. 00:26:21.390 --> 00:26:27.059 See, someone did disable Syria’s air defense system which is an amazing technological accomplishment 00:26:27.059 --> 00:26:32.460 and it’s been said that any and all intelligence missions within Israeli military involve 8200 00:26:32.460 --> 00:26:33.970 in some way. 00:26:33.970 --> 00:26:38.559 I think because 8200 had enough evidence to believe a strike might occur on that facility, 00:26:38.559 --> 00:26:44.009 they probably took it upon themselves to go find a way to disable that air defense system 00:26:44.009 --> 00:26:47.039 because that’s what someone with rosh gadol would do. 00:26:47.039 --> 00:26:52.230 Always three chess moves ahead and sometimes even ahead of their own commanders. 00:26:52.230 --> 00:26:57.179 An article in Forbes a few years back had incredible interviews from former 8200 soldiers. 00:26:57.179 --> 00:27:00.080 They explained a few missions they’ve conducted. 00:27:00.080 --> 00:27:05.340 One former member, Avishai, tells a story about a task he was given while in 8200. 00:27:05.340 --> 00:27:11.590 [MUSIC] The task was to break into the computers of a hostile country and grab specific data 00:27:11.590 --> 00:27:12.809 from those computers. 00:27:12.809 --> 00:27:17.840 He got into it and found the data but there was a big problem; the data was encrypted. 00:27:17.840 --> 00:27:22.980 Avishai could decrypt it but it was gonna take a long time, a really long time so he 00:27:22.980 --> 00:27:26.739 took a moment to think about how he could crack this encrypted data faster. 00:27:26.739 --> 00:27:30.940 He remembered that when he was on a previous mission he got access to a really fast cracking 00:27:30.940 --> 00:27:37.110 station but the problem was, that super cracking station was in another country, a hostile 00:27:37.110 --> 00:27:38.110 country. 00:27:38.110 --> 00:27:41.529 Avishai didn’t have time so he gave it a shot. 00:27:41.529 --> 00:27:45.999 He reestablished his access to that super cracking station in a hostile country’s 00:27:45.999 --> 00:27:50.950 network, uploaded the encrypted data to it, decrypted it, and then pulled it down without 00:27:50.950 --> 00:27:52.169 leaving a trace. 00:27:52.169 --> 00:27:56.529 It was really risky but it worked. 00:27:56.529 --> 00:28:01.280 He completed in one day what a data scientist may have taken a year to do. 00:28:01.280 --> 00:28:07.179 Now Avishai has left 8200 and went off to co-found Wix, the website building tool. 00:28:07.179 --> 00:28:13.289 It’s crazy to think that the co-founder of Wix is an expert hacker, someone who’s 00:28:13.289 --> 00:28:19.429 broken into multiple countries and conducted massive amounts of espionage. 00:28:19.429 --> 00:28:21.600 Unbelievable. 00:28:21.600 --> 00:28:27.130 [MUSIC] Some missions that are given are practically impossible. 00:28:27.130 --> 00:28:31.779 Teams are sometimes given a task with ridiculous limiting constraints, like that Apollo 13 00:28:31.779 --> 00:28:32.779 mission. 00:28:32.779 --> 00:28:36.239 But lives are at stake so some kind of plan or decision must be made. 00:28:36.239 --> 00:28:40.489 There is no option to say it’s too hard so sometimes the solution is a huge gamble. 00:28:40.489 --> 00:28:44.659 It’s like choosing between black or red on a Roulette table and hoping you choose 00:28:44.659 --> 00:28:48.330 correctly, or sometimes the odds are much worse and the only ideas you come up with 00:28:48.330 --> 00:28:52.059 are terrible but since that’s all you have you pick the one with the best odds, even 00:28:52.059 --> 00:28:54.990 if it’s a 10% chance of success, and deploy it. 00:28:54.990 --> 00:28:59.309 Yes, it might be rushed and barely holding together but you ship it anyways. 00:28:59.309 --> 00:29:04.220 When it’s out of your hands you wait and watch. 00:29:04.220 --> 00:29:08.519 You watch your target’s GPS signal or listen to the combat troop’s radio transmissions 00:29:08.519 --> 00:29:13.039 and your whole team becomes glued to the screens to see if it works, waiting and watching. 00:29:13.039 --> 00:29:16.259 The anxiety feels like lightning is in the room. 00:29:16.259 --> 00:29:20.960 But when the troops conduct their attack and it’s clear that the mission is a success, 00:29:20.960 --> 00:29:23.789 a burst of joy emits from everyone in your squad. 00:29:23.789 --> 00:29:27.720 High fives all around and a trip to the tavern to celebrate, or you might even see the news 00:29:27.720 --> 00:29:34.919 of your work on TV, a pure rollercoaster of emotions. 00:29:34.919 --> 00:29:39.620 With Israel having this elite force of Unit 8200 they realized that some battles are safer 00:29:39.620 --> 00:29:42.730 fought online than sending combat troops into battle. 00:29:42.730 --> 00:29:51.510 SHIRA: Disruption and sabotaging, I think it’s the new weapon in the world in general. 00:29:51.510 --> 00:29:56.440 You no longer need – I mean, you need your Air Force but there are some things you’re 00:29:56.440 --> 00:30:03.269 better off achieving without using any physical [00:30:00] weapon and using any – causing 00:30:03.269 --> 00:30:05.049 any physical damage. 00:30:05.049 --> 00:30:12.259 If you’re worried that ISIS are going to blow up a bomb somewhere and you can stop 00:30:12.259 --> 00:30:19.759 them by intercepting someone’s computer and destroying, I don’t know, something 00:30:19.759 --> 00:30:21.789 on it, then I think it’s a good idea. 00:30:21.789 --> 00:30:23.899 JACK: Here’s the Prime Minister again. 00:30:23.899 --> 00:30:29.980 PM: I believe that by working together we can more effectively defend against the forces 00:30:29.980 --> 00:30:34.009 of terror, this cyber-terror that threaten us all. 00:30:34.009 --> 00:30:38.539 When I said terror, actually, there’s a linkage between the forces of terror now and 00:30:38.539 --> 00:30:41.409 the use of the cyber-space. 00:30:41.409 --> 00:30:51.169 You see it most effectively or most tragically in ISIS; its use of cyber-tools, its ability 00:30:51.169 --> 00:30:55.169 to recruit young people with vulnerable dispositions. 00:30:55.169 --> 00:31:02.630 It’s also possible to fight them using these tools of big data, connectivity, and artificial 00:31:02.630 --> 00:31:03.630 intelligence. 00:31:03.630 --> 00:31:09.960 Same tools they use can be used against them and are being used against them with great 00:31:09.960 --> 00:31:10.960 effectiveness. 00:31:10.960 --> 00:31:14.919 I won’t go into that. 00:31:14.919 --> 00:31:20.950 JACK: [MUSIC] In 2014, 43 former Unit 8200 members wrote a public letter calling out 00:31:20.950 --> 00:31:23.419 the pervasive spying on Palestinians. 00:31:23.419 --> 00:31:28.340 The letter read, “We refuse to take part in actions against Palestinians and refuse 00:31:28.340 --> 00:31:32.919 to continue serving as a tool for deepening military rule in the occupied Palestinian 00:31:32.919 --> 00:31:34.389 territories. 00:31:34.389 --> 00:31:38.899 Intelligence allows ongoing control over millions of people, thorough and intrusive monitoring, 00:31:38.899 --> 00:31:41.679 and invasive into most aspects of life. 00:31:41.679 --> 00:31:46.499 All of this does not allow for normal living and fuels more violence and puts off an end 00:31:46.499 --> 00:31:47.649 to the conflict.” 00:31:47.649 --> 00:31:50.690 Journalists interviewed some of these whistle-blowers to learn more. 00:31:50.690 --> 00:31:53.889 One of them said they’re sometimes given a mission to gather more information about 00:31:53.889 --> 00:31:58.690 a person in Palestine and they’re encouraged to not just tap their phones and invade their 00:31:58.690 --> 00:32:04.200 computer but also everyone they know; the target’s family, their friends, and even 00:32:04.200 --> 00:32:05.309 the sister’s boyfriend. 00:32:05.309 --> 00:32:08.799 They’re looking for some secret that one of these people have. 00:32:08.799 --> 00:32:14.389 For instance, if someone in 8200 found that their target’s sister’s boyfriend is cheating 00:32:14.389 --> 00:32:19.720 on her, this information is given to the leaders because the spy could then go to the cheating 00:32:19.720 --> 00:32:25.370 sister’s boyfriend and threaten to tell his secret unless he cooperates with them, 00:32:25.370 --> 00:32:28.269 thus getting more information about the target. 00:32:28.269 --> 00:32:32.539 These whistle-blowers felt like this kind of surveillance was just going too far, tapping 00:32:32.539 --> 00:32:36.840 into lives of innocent Palestinians to threaten them to give up information like this was 00:32:36.840 --> 00:32:38.190 just too much. 00:32:38.190 --> 00:32:40.450 It’s blackmail and it’s too invasive. 00:32:40.450 --> 00:32:45.590 That’s why they wrote that public letter, to show how 8200 sometimes goes too far. 00:32:45.590 --> 00:32:50.330 So what does it look like inside Unit 8200? 00:32:50.330 --> 00:32:53.830 Shira wouldn’t tell me of course, but a trip to the library did. 00:32:53.830 --> 00:32:57.549 By looking through some books, reading online articles, and watching a lot of YouTube videos, 00:32:57.549 --> 00:32:59.399 I got a pretty good peek. 00:32:59.399 --> 00:33:03.559 For instance, you heard earlier the Prime Minister pointing out to a map exactly where 00:33:03.559 --> 00:33:08.029 Unit 8200 is located and using Google image search, you can see what it may look like 00:33:08.029 --> 00:33:09.340 inside there. 00:33:09.340 --> 00:33:14.039 Most pictures have two to eight people in small rooms using computers and it looks like 00:33:14.039 --> 00:33:18.070 some kind of command line terminal is on the screen, and web browsers, and other screens 00:33:18.070 --> 00:33:19.070 are blurred. 00:33:19.070 --> 00:33:23.729 In fact most photos blur out the faces of the troops but all the troops are in uniform. 00:33:23.729 --> 00:33:28.879 One picture is of some supposed 8200 troops out in the field with laptops and antennas. 00:33:28.879 --> 00:33:31.889 There are three major intelligence bodies in Israel. 00:33:31.889 --> 00:33:35.739 Mossad is their foreign intelligence, Shin Bet is their internal intelligence, and Aman 00:33:35.739 --> 00:33:37.869 is their military intelligence body. 00:33:37.869 --> 00:33:42.169 Unit 8200 falls under the control of Aman, their military intelligence branch because 00:33:42.169 --> 00:33:46.789 8200 works closely with combat troops and not so much on criminal investigations. 00:33:46.789 --> 00:33:51.129 Now, troops within 8200 report to their officer, who then report to higher officers, all the 00:33:51.129 --> 00:33:52.559 way up to their commander. 00:33:52.559 --> 00:33:55.739 Then 8200’s commander reports to Aman’s major general. 00:33:55.739 --> 00:33:57.121 It’s not just a bunch of kids. 00:33:57.121 --> 00:34:00.619 There are a lot of senior officials calling the shots. 00:34:00.619 --> 00:34:04.809 If you disagreed with your officer about something you can skip rank and go above them all the 00:34:04.809 --> 00:34:07.830 way up to the commander to get them to see something differently. 00:34:07.830 --> 00:34:11.870 There’s even a special form to fill out which can be translated to On the Contrary 00:34:11.870 --> 00:34:12.870 Form. 00:34:12.870 --> 00:34:16.350 This is that rosh gadol attitude being nurtured and it’s a very important concept for the 00:34:16.350 --> 00:34:17.350 Unit. 00:34:17.350 --> 00:34:20.620 It encourages the troops to not just take orders blindly, but instead to really try 00:34:20.620 --> 00:34:24.090 to understand the concept of the task they’ve been given. 00:34:24.090 --> 00:34:27.870 This way, if they get into the details and see a better way to accomplish something, 00:34:27.870 --> 00:34:30.490 they can recommend a different mission or task. 00:34:30.490 --> 00:34:34.250 It also means the officers need to understand the nature of the task and listen and trust 00:34:34.250 --> 00:34:38.240 the troops to make changes to the mission in order to be more effective. 00:34:38.240 --> 00:34:42.380 This gives each troop a profound sense of ownership of each task. 00:34:42.380 --> 00:34:45.480 It’s not just another mission; it’s their mission now. 00:34:45.480 --> 00:34:49.410 They have the power to improve it, add to it, or change it if they can come up with 00:34:49.410 --> 00:34:52.250 a compelling reason why. 00:34:52.250 --> 00:34:56.320 [MUSIC] Within 8200 are a lot of sub units. 00:34:56.320 --> 00:34:58.100 These sub units are specialized. 00:34:58.100 --> 00:35:00.130 For instance, there’s Unit 9900. 00:35:00.130 --> 00:35:02.890 These people [00:35:00] are specialized in visual intelligence-gathering. 00:35:02.890 --> 00:35:07.810 They sometimes are referred to as the Satellite Unit because they use satellites to take photos 00:35:07.810 --> 00:35:08.810 with. 00:35:08.810 --> 00:35:11.700 The IDF has at least ten satellites in space with high-tech capabilities. 00:35:11.700 --> 00:35:15.980 First of all, they can orbit the earth in 90 minutes flat, which usually means that 00:35:15.980 --> 00:35:20.290 at any given time the satellites are spread out enough to give worldwide coverage. 00:35:20.290 --> 00:35:26.170 Troops within 9900 can almost instantaneously snap a new photo of any location on the planet 00:35:26.170 --> 00:35:28.330 from space. 00:35:28.330 --> 00:35:32.420 These cameras have the abilities to take photos through clouds or at night, and can even make 00:35:32.420 --> 00:35:37.400 detailed 3D maps of an area so whenever combat troops need a set of eyes in the sky, Unit 00:35:37.400 --> 00:35:44.010 9900 is right there to help identify targets, their movement, and any other helpful information. 00:35:44.010 --> 00:35:48.830 Interestingly enough, because this is such a meticulous and visual task, Unit 9900 gets 00:35:48.830 --> 00:35:51.380 autistic volunteers to help out. 00:35:51.380 --> 00:35:55.170 People with disabilities are exempt from the military but some high-functioning autistic 00:35:55.170 --> 00:35:59.480 people still want to have the pride of serving so they join this Unit and are actually really 00:35:59.480 --> 00:36:02.980 good at scanning photos for relevant information. 00:36:02.980 --> 00:36:06.710 Another secretive Unit within 8200 is Unit 81. 00:36:06.710 --> 00:36:11.060 This is a big unit with possibly a thousand members and their job is to produce technical 00:36:11.060 --> 00:36:12.490 items for combat troops. 00:36:12.490 --> 00:36:17.670 They get requests for items and then make it, kind of like an intelligence toy factory. 00:36:17.670 --> 00:36:22.000 For instance, one request was to make a mine that was disguised to look like a rock but 00:36:22.000 --> 00:36:25.490 also had sensors in it to detect movement and sound. 00:36:25.490 --> 00:36:28.540 Unit 81 built it in their workshop and gave it to the troops. 00:36:28.540 --> 00:36:33.300 I can only imagine they’re also making things like advanced spy gear, too. 00:36:33.300 --> 00:36:38.350 But one of the most prestigious and secretive groups within the Israeli Defense Force is 00:36:38.350 --> 00:36:39.990 the Talpiot Program. 00:36:39.990 --> 00:36:45.900 If Unit 8200 takes the top 1% of the best candidates, Talpiot takes the top 1% of that 00:36:45.900 --> 00:36:46.910 1%. 00:36:46.910 --> 00:36:51.710 This program is the most advanced and intense technical training in the IDF. 00:36:51.710 --> 00:36:55.580 It requires 41 months of just training. 00:36:55.580 --> 00:36:58.080 Compare that to the two months of training for 8200. 00:36:58.080 --> 00:37:03.840 Now, 41 months is a year more than the required term to serve in the military and that’s 00:37:03.840 --> 00:37:05.640 just to get you trained up. 00:37:05.640 --> 00:37:09.900 Because of this enormous amount of investment the IDF puts into the Talpiot Program members, 00:37:09.900 --> 00:37:13.050 they have to serve a total of nine years. 00:37:13.050 --> 00:37:17.560 I spoke with one of these former Talpiot Program members on the phone. 00:37:17.560 --> 00:37:20.850 They wouldn’t let me use his voice or name but he helped illuminate what the Talpiot 00:37:20.850 --> 00:37:21.850 Program does. 00:37:21.850 --> 00:37:26.480 They actually train alongside paratroopers which are elite combat troops themselves, 00:37:26.480 --> 00:37:30.450 actually getting dirty and using the same equipment the combat troops use to get an 00:37:30.450 --> 00:37:35.480 up close and personal sense of what the equipment is used for and how important it is to troops. 00:37:35.480 --> 00:37:38.400 Most importantly, how it can be improved. 00:37:38.400 --> 00:37:43.290 Tasks within the Talpiot Program are often RND oriented, developing new equipment, methodologies, 00:37:43.290 --> 00:37:46.072 and technologies to make the IDF better. 00:37:46.072 --> 00:37:49.520 Training includes a lot of physics, math, aerodynamics, chemistry, and science. 00:37:49.520 --> 00:37:54.570 But they also need to have an understanding of every branch of the IDF to know how effective 00:37:54.570 --> 00:37:57.780 each unit is and what tools can help make them more effective. 00:37:57.780 --> 00:38:02.800 For instance, one task mentioned was the helicopter pilots in the IDF were complaining about back 00:38:02.800 --> 00:38:04.970 pain after flying a lot. 00:38:04.970 --> 00:38:10.390 Talpiot Program members did an extensive analysis of how the human spine moves during flight 00:38:10.390 --> 00:38:11.390 and landing. 00:38:11.390 --> 00:38:16.110 They even cut holes in the seat so they could watch the pilot’s spine during flight. 00:38:16.110 --> 00:38:20.750 They took their analysis back to the lab and studied it, and they created a better helicopter 00:38:20.750 --> 00:38:23.790 seat, one that causes less injuries. 00:38:23.790 --> 00:38:28.370 This constant reinvention of everything in the IDF helps them become and maintain their 00:38:28.370 --> 00:38:31.550 elite status. 00:38:31.550 --> 00:38:33.960 How does Unit 8200 compare to the NSA? 00:38:33.960 --> 00:38:35.870 Well, there’s one big difference. 00:38:35.870 --> 00:38:40.890 The US is a superpower and has interests all over the world while Israel is mostly focused 00:38:40.890 --> 00:38:43.260 on their specific region of the world. 00:38:43.260 --> 00:38:46.320 This means the US has a lot more resources to have a reach like that. 00:38:46.320 --> 00:38:50.390 They have more money, more people, more stations, more capabilities, and more operating agreements 00:38:50.390 --> 00:38:51.700 with different countries. 00:38:51.700 --> 00:38:55.760 But in terms of quality of work and sophistication of technology, they’re in the same league 00:38:55.760 --> 00:38:56.760 as each other. 00:38:56.760 --> 00:39:00.400 Israel’s focus is more narrow, targeting the Middle East, which sometimes makes them 00:39:00.400 --> 00:39:05.120 better than the NSA in some regions because they understand the nuances of the culture 00:39:05.120 --> 00:39:08.580 better and know where to look for the relevant information. 00:39:08.580 --> 00:39:12.530 We don’t know for sure but I’m guessing there’s around 5,000 to 10,000 active Unit 00:39:12.530 --> 00:39:14.110 8200 members. 00:39:14.110 --> 00:39:16.980 After they serve their two years, eight months, they can quit. 00:39:16.980 --> 00:39:23.810 SHIRA: Obviously the majority of them leave after they do their mandatory service but 00:39:23.810 --> 00:39:25.240 quite a few of them stay. 00:39:25.240 --> 00:39:29.470 JACK: Shira went on to serve in 8200 for ten years. 00:39:29.470 --> 00:39:34.310 The average length of time for 8200 members is four years which means 8200 loses a quarter 00:39:34.310 --> 00:39:36.390 of their soldiers every year. 00:39:36.390 --> 00:39:39.920 Imagine if you lost a quarter of your co-workers every year where you work. 00:39:39.920 --> 00:39:41.810 This is a massive amount of churn. 00:39:41.810 --> 00:39:44.680 Every year, hundreds of new soldiers join and leave. 00:39:44.680 --> 00:39:48.260 For any company this would be a nightmare to deal with but the IDF has learned how to 00:39:48.260 --> 00:39:49.620 use this to their advantage. 00:39:49.620 --> 00:39:55.300 SHIRA: Many people in the 8200 and specifically after you’re an officer you learn to do 00:39:55.300 --> 00:39:58.710 a little more than only the stuff you have to do. 00:39:58.710 --> 00:40:03.410 If you do more than just a little more, [00:40:00] you’re getting the right expertise to maybe 00:40:03.410 --> 00:40:10.840 become an entrepreneur, or maybe become an executive in a company out there because you 00:40:10.840 --> 00:40:15.880 care, because you lead people, because you think outside of the box, because you come 00:40:15.880 --> 00:40:22.510 up with the next challenge or the next product or the next big thing. 00:40:22.510 --> 00:40:26.680 Not because someone told you to think about it, but because you care about the company 00:40:26.680 --> 00:40:33.050 where you work for, or about – you understand the market and you think about the next big 00:40:33.050 --> 00:40:34.080 thing yourself. 00:40:34.080 --> 00:40:39.630 JACK: This is what happens when you nurture rosh gadol. 8200 becomes a factory for creating 00:40:39.630 --> 00:40:42.270 start-up founders and executives. 00:40:42.270 --> 00:40:46.790 Whatever their training is in 8200, it’s so much more valuable than any tuition can 00:40:46.790 --> 00:40:47.790 buy. 00:40:47.790 --> 00:40:49.630 Because of that, a lot of them become entrepreneurs. 00:40:49.630 --> 00:40:51.380 SHIRA: Yes, that is true. 00:40:51.380 --> 00:40:57.880 Especially true for the security, cyber-security industry. 00:40:57.880 --> 00:41:05.700 That’s obviously because people, when they went out of the military, they realized that 00:41:05.700 --> 00:41:12.470 there is a similar problem out there on the market that they can help to solve so they 00:41:12.470 --> 00:41:19.420 brought their great brains and their experience and created the product that would help other 00:41:19.420 --> 00:41:21.640 people to be safe. 00:41:21.640 --> 00:41:26.590 JACK: Making a risky decision on a live battlefield can cost lives but when these 8200 members 00:41:26.590 --> 00:41:31.110 make a risky decision as an entrepreneur, it’s not as stressful for them. 00:41:31.110 --> 00:41:36.620 Tons of cyber-security start-ups were founded in Israel by former members of 8200 and here’s 00:41:36.620 --> 00:41:44.290 just a few of them; ICQ, Check Point Firewalls, Imperva, Cybereason, Radware, Waze, and Palo 00:41:44.290 --> 00:41:47.580 Alto Networks were all started by former 8200 soldiers. 00:41:47.580 --> 00:41:51.860 Oh, on a side note, Palo Alto has a threat intelligence team of their own called Unit 00:41:51.860 --> 00:41:56.890 42 and the mission statement of the company is “To protect our way of life in the digital 00:41:56.890 --> 00:41:59.350 age by preventing cyber-attacks.” 00:41:59.350 --> 00:42:01.570 You see the same similarities as I do? 00:42:01.570 --> 00:42:06.650 Again, it’s fascinating to think that the senior leadership of all these companies are 00:42:06.650 --> 00:42:11.130 some of the top-trained hackers in the world, people who have hacked into governments and 00:42:11.130 --> 00:42:15.660 terrorist cells lead these corporations. 00:42:15.660 --> 00:42:22.430 [MUSIC] As people start completing their time in 8200 and are getting ready to leave, Israeli 00:42:22.430 --> 00:42:25.380 companies will start recruiting them heavily. 00:42:25.380 --> 00:42:29.350 Israeli tech start-ups know very well what it means to have served in this elite force 00:42:29.350 --> 00:42:34.140 but a lot of 8200 members go on to university after they get out, and some even move over 00:42:34.140 --> 00:42:36.220 to becoming a doctor or architect. 00:42:36.220 --> 00:42:38.100 Not all of them go on to have a security career. 00:42:38.100 --> 00:42:42.520 But just imagine being in 8200 and then go off to spend four years at a university and 00:42:42.520 --> 00:42:43.540 get a degree. 00:42:43.540 --> 00:42:47.300 By the time you’re twenty-four you might already be married, you already have incredible 00:42:47.300 --> 00:42:50.540 experience, perspective, and education. 00:42:50.540 --> 00:42:52.230 Your potential is staggering. 00:42:52.230 --> 00:42:57.780 Once you get out of 8200 you’re then a reserve and have to spend up to three weeks a year 00:42:57.780 --> 00:43:02.870 going back to 8200, refreshing your skills all the way until you’re forty. 00:43:02.870 --> 00:43:06.410 This helps them stay connected with the latest technology which could also be valuable in 00:43:06.410 --> 00:43:07.570 the business world. 00:43:07.570 --> 00:43:11.340 There’s also a yearly reunion where you leave your family and spend a week with your 00:43:11.340 --> 00:43:13.750 fellow soldiers you served with. 00:43:13.750 --> 00:43:14.820 Every year they do that. 00:43:14.820 --> 00:43:19.420 Keep in mind, all this is happening in a place not even as big as New Jersey with roughly 00:43:19.420 --> 00:43:21.150 the same population. 00:43:21.150 --> 00:43:25.000 Look at how dedicated they are to keeping these connections with one another. 00:43:25.000 --> 00:43:27.420 This has powerful results. 00:43:27.420 --> 00:43:29.450 Everyone knows everyone. 00:43:29.450 --> 00:43:33.150 If you screw up you can’t just disappear to Colorado or Florida. 00:43:33.150 --> 00:43:37.810 8200 alumni are highly sought-after employees in Israel but American companies sometimes 00:43:37.810 --> 00:43:39.190 can’t read these resumes. 00:43:39.190 --> 00:43:43.280 They look it over, see military training, a few years of university, and ask that’s 00:43:43.280 --> 00:43:46.080 nice, now when do you plan on getting a real job? 00:43:46.080 --> 00:43:47.330 But this is changing, though. 00:43:47.330 --> 00:43:51.500 Amazon, Google, and Microsoft have all set up offices in Israel knowing very well what 00:43:51.500 --> 00:43:54.880 it means to be an elite force in the Israeli intelligence. 00:43:54.880 --> 00:43:59.100 Not only that, but a whole bunch of tech companies are acquiring Israeli start-ups like it’s 00:43:59.100 --> 00:44:00.620 a fire sale. 00:44:00.620 --> 00:44:05.300 Google recently bought Waze, the Israeli-based navigation system which was founded by a former 00:44:05.300 --> 00:44:09.540 8200 member for 1.1 billion dollars. 00:44:09.540 --> 00:44:14.210 Intel bought an Israeli collision-avoidance software company for 15 billion dollars. 00:44:14.210 --> 00:44:18.410 Even Warren Buffet, a man who swore would only acquire American companies, has broke 00:44:18.410 --> 00:44:22.750 his rule and bought an Israeli tool company for 4 billion dollars. 00:44:22.750 --> 00:44:27.320 WARREN: It’s one of the most remarkable businesses we’ve ever seen, run by truly 00:44:27.320 --> 00:44:28.320 remarkable people. 00:44:28.320 --> 00:44:32.050 JACK: Nurturing this type of innovation has paid off in spades for Israel. 00:44:32.050 --> 00:44:36.190 They don’t have oil reserves to ride on so they rely on this innovation and technology 00:44:36.190 --> 00:44:38.160 to carry them into the future. 00:44:38.160 --> 00:44:42.600 Not only does having a thriving start-up scene boost their GDP but the innovation gets absorbed 00:44:42.600 --> 00:44:46.210 back into the IDF, making their military even stronger. 00:44:46.210 --> 00:44:49.620 After looking at this now, it’s easy to see why they’re becoming one of the top-ranked 00:44:49.620 --> 00:44:51.020 cyber-powers of the world. 00:44:51.020 --> 00:44:55.170 It looks like they’ll continue to hold onto that for some time and this is both exciting 00:44:55.170 --> 00:44:56.450 and scary to me. 00:44:56.450 --> 00:45:01.050 It’s exciting to see a nation take security so seriously on a macro level. 00:45:01.050 --> 00:45:02.700 [00:45:00] It’s like a giant experiment. 00:45:02.700 --> 00:45:10.270 PM: I don’t think it’s an exaggeration to say its cyber-defense solutions will serve 00:45:10.270 --> 00:45:15.890 as the essential basis for human development and economic growth in this century. 00:45:15.890 --> 00:45:20.650 I believe that this is a tremendous engine of economic growth because I don’t think 00:45:20.650 --> 00:45:24.310 there’s a person on earth who’s not going to need cyber-security. 00:45:24.310 --> 00:45:27.850 I don’t think there is a nation on earth that is not going to need cyber-security. 00:45:27.850 --> 00:45:34.470 Some of them violate that security left and right but every country and every citizen 00:45:34.470 --> 00:45:39.860 of this planet will need cyber-security and this will be the century where cyber-security 00:45:39.860 --> 00:45:45.270 will either be achieved or we will lose the tremendous opportunities that face humanity. 00:45:45.270 --> 00:45:50.490 JACK: But then it’s also scary because of how many conflicts Israel is involved in. 00:45:50.490 --> 00:45:54.590 A lot of people are very angry with Israel but aren’t developing the cyber-weapons 00:45:54.590 --> 00:45:59.990 anywhere near the speed that Israel is, which makes the power gap even greater. 00:45:59.990 --> 00:46:05.040 Building weapons for the cyber battlefield is the new arms race and Israel is clearly 00:46:05.040 --> 00:46:06.890 trying to win this race. 00:46:06.890 --> 00:46:10.830 PM: Cyber-security is becoming increasingly a battlefield. 00:46:10.830 --> 00:46:16.800 We are bolstering our defenses and we are committed to maintaining Israel’s position 00:46:16.800 --> 00:46:19.130 as a global cyber-power. 00:46:19.130 --> 00:46:20.820 [MUSIC] We’ve done that now. 00:46:20.820 --> 00:46:24.980 We said we’d be among the top three and we are, but we have to make sure that we’re 00:46:24.980 --> 00:46:29.750 there ten years from now, twenty years from now, fifty years from now because it’s not 00:46:29.750 --> 00:46:31.250 going away. 00:46:31.250 --> 00:46:36.800 JACK: [MUSIC] After hearing all this, one thing I keep thinking about is how former 00:46:36.800 --> 00:46:41.590 8200 soldiers are working for many tech giants around the world but keep strong ties with 00:46:41.590 --> 00:46:42.930 their fellow soldiers. 00:46:42.930 --> 00:46:48.570 Imagine if one 8200 member goes off to work at Google to help develop the Chrome browser 00:46:48.570 --> 00:46:53.090 and then goes back to 8200 as part of their yearly duty and while there, they see a soldier 00:46:53.090 --> 00:46:55.320 building exploits for the Chrome browser. 00:46:55.320 --> 00:46:57.990 What do they do? 00:46:57.990 --> 00:47:02.810 Do they take the exploits from 8200 and patch it in Chrome or do they help their fellow 00:47:02.810 --> 00:47:04.840 soldier by sharing the source code? 00:47:04.840 --> 00:47:08.910 This isn’t a problem specific to Israel; Google has offices in Switzerland and South 00:47:08.910 --> 00:47:13.290 Korea where military is also mandatory so Google’s probably hiring soldiers from these 00:47:13.290 --> 00:47:14.290 countries, too. 00:47:14.290 --> 00:47:18.580 But see, we know NSA hoards zero-days and China steals source code and Russia meddles 00:47:18.580 --> 00:47:24.010 with elections, so it just makes me wonder how these situations get handled. 00:47:24.010 --> 00:47:31.230 JACK (OUTRO): [OUTRO MUSIC] You’ve been listening to Darknet Diaries. 00:47:31.230 --> 00:47:33.850 A very special thanks goes to guest Shira Shamban. 00:47:33.850 --> 00:47:37.070 She’s out of 8200 now and works at Dome9. 00:47:37.070 --> 00:47:41.170 Check it out if you need solutions for securing AWS or Cloud infrastructure. 00:47:41.170 --> 00:47:46.050 To learn more about 8200 check out the book Start-up Nation and Spies Against Armageddon. 00:47:46.050 --> 00:47:48.500 Pretty much everything I discussed was from those two books. 00:47:48.500 --> 00:47:50.920 The rest of the sources are from various online articles. 00:47:50.920 --> 00:47:54.880 Hey, there’s now a place to get together with other Darknet Diaries fans to discuss 00:47:54.880 --> 00:47:55.880 the show. 00:47:55.880 --> 00:47:57.430 If you want to join us visit reddit.com/r/darknetdiaries. 00:47:57.430 --> 00:48:02.780 Oh, and please help support this show by donating to the Patreon. 00:48:02.780 --> 00:48:06.600 Directly supporting this show through that brings only good things for all of us. 00:48:06.600 --> 00:48:10.000 Soon I’ll be releasing bonus episodes just for Patreon supporters. 00:48:10.000 --> 00:48:13.280 This show is made by me, the slacker giraffe, Jack Rhysider. 00:48:13.280 --> 00:48:27.830 Theme music was created by the thumpin’ Breakmaster Cylinder.