WEBVTT 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:01.439 This story picks up from where we left 00:00:01.439 --> 00:00:03.200 off in part one. So, if you haven't 00:00:03.200 --> 00:00:05.040 heard it yet, you need to go back one 00:00:05.040 --> 00:00:06.799 episode and listen to that one before 00:00:06.799 --> 00:00:08.800 listening to this because this is part 00:00:08.800 --> 00:00:13.360 two. [music] 00:00:13.360 --> 00:00:15.280 These are true stories from the dark 00:00:15.280 --> 00:00:18.340 side of the internet. 00:00:18.340 --> 00:00:22.880 [music] I'm Jack Reider. 00:00:22.880 --> 00:00:34.715 This is Darknet Diaries. [music] 00:00:34.715 --> 00:00:38.640 >> [music] 00:00:38.640 --> 00:00:41.120 >> The New York Telephone Company was the 00:00:41.120 --> 00:00:43.360 face of the phone system in New York 00:00:43.360 --> 00:00:45.440 City in the 1980s. Whether you were in 00:00:45.440 --> 00:00:47.280 the New York Stock Exchange making phone 00:00:47.280 --> 00:00:48.879 calls or walking up to pay phones in the 00:00:48.879 --> 00:00:51.360 streets of Manhattan, you were using the 00:00:51.360 --> 00:00:53.440 New York Telephone Company. And there 00:00:53.440 --> 00:00:54.879 were two guys who worked there that were 00:00:54.879 --> 00:00:56.879 in charge of securing the system. Tom 00:00:56.879 --> 00:00:59.199 Kaiser and Fred Staples. Tom and Fred 00:00:59.199 --> 00:01:00.960 each had their own specialty. Fred 00:01:00.960 --> 00:01:02.079 engineered the phone network 00:01:02.079 --> 00:01:04.239 infrastructure and Tom oversaw it. If 00:01:04.239 --> 00:01:05.680 you broke into the system, it was 00:01:05.680 --> 00:01:07.280 because Fred overlooked some sort of 00:01:07.280 --> 00:01:09.280 vulnerability. And then Tom was the one 00:01:09.280 --> 00:01:11.439 who had to catch you. Their jobs became 00:01:11.439 --> 00:01:13.040 infinitely more difficult and 00:01:13.040 --> 00:01:14.799 interesting when a strange letter 00:01:14.799 --> 00:01:17.119 arrived at Tom's Times Square office in 00:01:17.119 --> 00:01:20.640 November 1988. It stated that a kid up 00:01:20.640 --> 00:01:23.280 in the Bronx was hacking into the phone 00:01:23.280 --> 00:01:25.759 grid who was calling himself the 00:01:25.759 --> 00:01:28.320 technician. The letter wasn't signed. It 00:01:28.320 --> 00:01:30.390 was an anonymous tip, but Tom suspected 00:01:30.390 --> 00:01:32.320 [music] it might have been written by a 00:01:32.320 --> 00:01:34.640 family member of the technician because 00:01:34.640 --> 00:01:37.119 the tone was caring. It was a plea to 00:01:37.119 --> 00:01:39.280 stop this kid for his own good. Sure 00:01:39.280 --> 00:01:40.720 enough, when Tom pulled up the records 00:01:40.720 --> 00:01:42.159 associated with the technician's 00:01:42.159 --> 00:01:44.240 address, the proof was right there. 00:01:44.240 --> 00:01:45.840 technician had been connecting to 00:01:45.840 --> 00:01:49.040 switches at AT&T from home with no real 00:01:49.040 --> 00:01:51.280 attempt to hide it either. So Tom turned 00:01:51.280 --> 00:01:53.200 to a nifty device that he had which was 00:01:53.200 --> 00:01:54.640 called the dialed number [music] 00:01:54.640 --> 00:01:57.680 recorder DNR. A DNR is a little box that 00:01:57.680 --> 00:01:59.119 you might mistake for an answering 00:01:59.119 --> 00:02:01.040 machine or a tape recorder. Tom had some 00:02:01.040 --> 00:02:02.486 small black DNRs that click clacked 00:02:02.486 --> 00:02:04.399 [music] and spat out some paper tape 00:02:04.399 --> 00:02:06.000 when they were triggered. But these 00:02:06.000 --> 00:02:07.759 weren't exactly wire taps. They couldn't 00:02:07.759 --> 00:02:09.599 record the contents of what anyone said 00:02:09.599 --> 00:02:12.080 or typed. What they could do is record 00:02:12.080 --> 00:02:14.080 the metadata. [music] which number 00:02:14.080 --> 00:02:16.239 connected to which and for how long. It 00:02:16.239 --> 00:02:18.080 was a DNR device that led investigators 00:02:18.080 --> 00:02:20.480 to catch Fry Guy. Maybe that same device 00:02:20.480 --> 00:02:22.640 will be useful here to find out what 00:02:22.640 --> 00:02:25.520 this technician guy was doing. And 00:02:25.520 --> 00:02:26.720 there's an interesting thing to point 00:02:26.720 --> 00:02:28.480 out that if the police wanted to do 00:02:28.480 --> 00:02:30.560 that, they would need a court order and 00:02:30.560 --> 00:02:32.319 approval from the judge to conduct a 00:02:32.319 --> 00:02:35.200 wiretap. But if the security team at the 00:02:35.200 --> 00:02:36.720 New York Telephone Company wanted to do 00:02:36.720 --> 00:02:38.319 that, they didn't need a court order to 00:02:38.319 --> 00:02:39.760 monitor the activity of one of their 00:02:39.760 --> 00:02:41.599 customers. They're a private company. 00:02:41.599 --> 00:02:43.840 they can do what they want. So Fred and 00:02:43.840 --> 00:02:46.000 Tom were able to use this DNR phone 00:02:46.000 --> 00:02:48.800 monitoring tool without any red tape. A 00:02:48.800 --> 00:02:50.319 couple of things stood out in the data. 00:02:50.319 --> 00:02:52.319 First, there was a clear evidence that 00:02:52.319 --> 00:02:54.400 this technician was hacking into 00:02:54.400 --> 00:02:56.319 something called a dial hub, which was 00:02:56.319 --> 00:02:58.319 in the New York telephone network. The 00:02:58.319 --> 00:03:00.319 dial hub had just been invented that 00:03:00.319 --> 00:03:02.239 year and it was pretty new even for Tom 00:03:02.239 --> 00:03:03.840 and Fred and they even had to ask like 00:03:03.840 --> 00:03:06.080 what is this thing? It was essentially a 00:03:06.080 --> 00:03:08.480 remote access point into the entire New 00:03:08.480 --> 00:03:10.800 York telephone company computer network. 00:03:10.800 --> 00:03:12.879 employees had a password that they could 00:03:12.879 --> 00:03:15.040 use to login from home to reach whatever 00:03:15.040 --> 00:03:16.800 system they needed to do their job. 00:03:16.800 --> 00:03:18.560 Somehow this guy calling himself the 00:03:18.560 --> 00:03:20.480 technician had not only learned about 00:03:20.480 --> 00:03:22.879 the dial hub but obtained a login token 00:03:22.879 --> 00:03:25.120 for it, meaning he could use it as if he 00:03:25.120 --> 00:03:26.879 was any employee in the company. What's 00:03:26.879 --> 00:03:29.280 worse is that Tom couldn't keep track of 00:03:29.280 --> 00:03:31.040 him once he got in there. 00:03:31.040 --> 00:03:32.720 >> This was serious. And this is where 00:03:32.720 --> 00:03:34.239 Tom's second [music] interesting 00:03:34.239 --> 00:03:37.200 discovery came in. Over time, whenever 00:03:37.200 --> 00:03:39.200 the DNR started chirping, Tom would get 00:03:39.200 --> 00:03:40.799 up from his desk, rush over to it, and 00:03:40.799 --> 00:03:42.640 read where the technician was calling. 00:03:42.640 --> 00:03:45.599 Over time, a pattern emerged. First, 00:03:45.599 --> 00:03:47.760 this Bronx hacker would dial into the 00:03:47.760 --> 00:03:49.519 phone company network, and he'd hang 00:03:49.519 --> 00:03:50.799 around there for a bit, do his thing, 00:03:50.799 --> 00:03:52.480 and then he'd disconnect. And then he 00:03:52.480 --> 00:03:54.239 would always call a phone number after 00:03:54.239 --> 00:03:56.080 that, which routed to a middle-class 00:03:56.080 --> 00:03:58.480 Queens neighborhood, and it was the same 00:03:58.480 --> 00:04:00.959 number every time. This call would last 00:04:00.959 --> 00:04:02.799 for a bit, and then he'd disconnect and 00:04:02.799 --> 00:04:04.799 check in with Queens again, and so on 00:04:04.799 --> 00:04:06.959 and so on. back and forth into the phone 00:04:06.959 --> 00:04:09.120 company, call to Queens, into the phone 00:04:09.120 --> 00:04:11.439 company, call to Queens. Tom and Fred 00:04:11.439 --> 00:04:13.280 had a guess that the actual brains 00:04:13.280 --> 00:04:15.519 behind this operation might be in 00:04:15.519 --> 00:04:17.440 Queens. And they looked at all the call 00:04:17.440 --> 00:04:19.359 records to that number that was going to 00:04:19.359 --> 00:04:21.280 Queens. And they noticed that there were 00:04:21.280 --> 00:04:23.040 a few other calls that came into that 00:04:23.040 --> 00:04:25.120 number in Queens quite often, too. And 00:04:25.120 --> 00:04:26.479 they were able to trace these calls, 00:04:26.479 --> 00:04:28.320 figure out whose numbers they were. And 00:04:28.320 --> 00:04:30.800 this led them to discover two other 00:04:30.800 --> 00:04:33.600 hackers. One was corrupt and the other 00:04:33.600 --> 00:04:36.160 was Outlaw. Why were so many hackers 00:04:36.160 --> 00:04:38.000 calling this number in Queens? Who were 00:04:38.000 --> 00:04:40.240 these guys? Maybe members of the 00:04:40.240 --> 00:04:42.880 notorious Legion of Doom. Everyone knew 00:04:42.880 --> 00:04:45.120 Legion of Doom at the time. The number 00:04:45.120 --> 00:04:47.520 in Queens was registered to a red brick 00:04:47.520 --> 00:04:50.960 row house. It belonged to Charles Abin, 00:04:50.960 --> 00:04:53.440 a middle-aged man who was a school 00:04:53.440 --> 00:04:55.840 custodian, actually an officer in the 00:04:55.840 --> 00:04:58.240 school custodian's union. Not a very 00:04:58.240 --> 00:05:00.479 likely person to be a hacker. But 00:05:00.479 --> 00:05:03.680 Charles Abin's son was a teenager who 00:05:03.680 --> 00:05:05.360 spiked up his hair. He kept terrible 00:05:05.360 --> 00:05:06.960 bedtime hours and got a lot of stomach 00:05:06.960 --> 00:05:09.680 aches. His name was Mark. But online and 00:05:09.680 --> 00:05:11.759 throughout the country, Mark was known 00:05:11.759 --> 00:05:15.199 as fiber optic. A notorious hacker. And 00:05:15.199 --> 00:05:16.479 even compared to the other members of 00:05:16.479 --> 00:05:18.800 Legion of Doom, Mark was really good at 00:05:18.800 --> 00:05:21.199 hacking. Probably too good. Maybe the 00:05:21.199 --> 00:05:24.228 best phone system hacker in America. No, 00:05:24.228 --> 00:05:26.560 [music] on the planet. Maybe ever, 00:05:26.560 --> 00:05:29.840 actually. From the compact TRS80 on his 00:05:29.840 --> 00:05:32.400 desk in his tiny bedroom, Mark ingested 00:05:32.400 --> 00:05:34.240 enough knowledge to outwit even the 00:05:34.240 --> 00:05:35.680 technicians working at the phone 00:05:35.680 --> 00:05:37.440 company. He wasn't just fluent in the 00:05:37.440 --> 00:05:39.199 New York telephone system, but also the 00:05:39.199 --> 00:05:40.880 9X, the packet switching networks 00:05:40.880 --> 00:05:42.080 running all the way up and down New 00:05:42.080 --> 00:05:44.560 England. Basically, he had encyclopedic 00:05:44.560 --> 00:05:46.639 knowledge of telecommunication systems 00:05:46.639 --> 00:05:48.080 and he could name pretty much any of 00:05:48.080 --> 00:05:49.520 them. He could rattle off the most 00:05:49.520 --> 00:05:51.520 obscure details about any random machine 00:05:51.520 --> 00:05:53.680 or protocol. Of course, he could place a 00:05:53.680 --> 00:05:55.280 call anywhere in the country without 00:05:55.280 --> 00:05:57.360 paying a scent or triggering any alarms. 00:05:57.360 --> 00:05:58.944 That was the easy part. When Mark, 00:05:58.944 --> 00:06:01.600 [music] aka Fiber Optic, was on a BBS, 00:06:01.600 --> 00:06:03.600 other hackers listened. He liked sharing 00:06:03.600 --> 00:06:05.520 his knowledge, and the reputation it 00:06:05.520 --> 00:06:07.840 afforded him. But don't you dare cross 00:06:07.840 --> 00:06:09.680 him. It was easy enough for him to cut 00:06:09.680 --> 00:06:11.520 your phone service or overload it with 00:06:11.520 --> 00:06:14.080 endless calls, or much worse. As I 00:06:14.080 --> 00:06:16.240 researched the story, the whole Earth 00:06:16.240 --> 00:06:18.880 catalog kept coming up and up. And I 00:06:18.880 --> 00:06:20.479 didn't really know about it before. Like 00:06:20.479 --> 00:06:21.680 I heard about it, but I didn't really 00:06:21.680 --> 00:06:25.280 look at it. But now I got a copy of it 00:06:25.280 --> 00:06:26.960 and I'm looking at it and it's like 00:06:26.960 --> 00:06:28.400 amazing. It's like one of my favorite 00:06:28.400 --> 00:06:30.560 things now. You know what? I'll let 00:06:30.560 --> 00:06:32.720 Steve Jobs tell you about it. When I was 00:06:32.720 --> 00:06:35.680 young, there was an amazing publication 00:06:35.680 --> 00:06:38.000 called the Whole Earth Catalog, which 00:06:38.000 --> 00:06:40.639 was one of the Bibles of my generation. 00:06:40.639 --> 00:06:42.639 It was created by a fellow named Stuart 00:06:42.639 --> 00:06:45.440 Brand not far from here in Menllo Park, 00:06:45.440 --> 00:06:46.960 and he brought it to life with his 00:06:46.960 --> 00:06:50.000 poetic touch. This was in the late60s 00:06:50.000 --> 00:06:51.919 before personal computers and desktop 00:06:51.919 --> 00:06:54.080 publishing. So it was all made with 00:06:54.080 --> 00:06:56.080 typewriters, scissors, and Polaroid 00:06:56.080 --> 00:06:58.400 cameras. It was sort of like Google in 00:06:58.400 --> 00:07:01.120 paperback form 35 years before Google 00:07:01.120 --> 00:07:04.000 came along. It was idealistic, 00:07:04.000 --> 00:07:06.240 overflowing with neat tools and great 00:07:06.240 --> 00:07:08.479 notions. This catalog is amazing. It's 00:07:08.479 --> 00:07:10.319 filled with really helpful articles like 00:07:10.319 --> 00:07:12.240 how to build a shelter or water pump. 00:07:12.240 --> 00:07:13.840 And it also has glimpses into the future 00:07:13.840 --> 00:07:15.520 and technologies and ideas for 00:07:15.520 --> 00:07:17.360 structures and [music] systems. And 00:07:17.360 --> 00:07:18.800 sometimes there's theoretical things in 00:07:18.800 --> 00:07:20.560 here, sometimes it's practical, but 00:07:20.560 --> 00:07:22.880 there's just a ton of wonderful unique 00:07:22.880 --> 00:07:25.520 ideas on how to navigate the modern 00:07:25.520 --> 00:07:27.599 world. And Stuart Brand, the guy who 00:07:27.599 --> 00:07:29.759 made this, took a big fascination with 00:07:29.759 --> 00:07:31.919 computers and especially hacking. He 00:07:31.919 --> 00:07:34.720 spun up his own BBS called the Well, 00:07:34.720 --> 00:07:37.280 which stood for Whole Earth Electronic 00:07:37.280 --> 00:07:39.919 Link. It became the place to post 00:07:39.919 --> 00:07:42.240 helpful information, to post things that 00:07:42.240 --> 00:07:44.400 were culturally relevant at the time, 00:07:44.400 --> 00:07:47.039 things like tech, art, and politics, but 00:07:47.039 --> 00:07:48.720 also significantly highlighting 00:07:48.720 --> 00:07:50.720 counterculture movements and ideas. 00:07:50.720 --> 00:07:53.199 There were areas for niche hobbies and 00:07:53.199 --> 00:07:55.360 sharing software. At the core of it was 00:07:55.360 --> 00:07:58.080 self-empowerment and open dialogue. The 00:07:58.080 --> 00:08:00.240 well was the internet's first real 00:08:00.240 --> 00:08:02.319 online community. It attracted 00:08:02.319 --> 00:08:04.400 journalists and artists and activists 00:08:04.400 --> 00:08:08.000 and poets and yes hackers like Neil 00:08:08.000 --> 00:08:09.520 Stevenson would pop in there from time 00:08:09.520 --> 00:08:12.080 to time. Craig from Craigslist was there 00:08:12.080 --> 00:08:13.520 and that's where he got inspired to make 00:08:13.520 --> 00:08:15.599 Craigslist and the well was the 00:08:15.599 --> 00:08:17.520 birthplace for a lot of the internet 00:08:17.520 --> 00:08:19.280 culture and norms that we still use 00:08:19.280 --> 00:08:21.440 today. [music] 00:08:21.440 --> 00:08:23.440 >> One longtime supporter of hackers is 00:08:23.440 --> 00:08:25.520 Stuart Brand, editor of the Whole Earth 00:08:25.520 --> 00:08:27.039 Cataloges. 00:08:27.039 --> 00:08:31.039 They are uh shy, 00:08:31.039 --> 00:08:36.560 sweet, incredibly brilliant and uh I 00:08:36.560 --> 00:08:40.080 think more effective in pushing the 00:08:40.080 --> 00:08:42.560 culture around now in good ways than 00:08:42.560 --> 00:08:44.959 almost any group I can think of. 00:08:44.959 --> 00:08:46.640 >> To make [music] his point, Brand invited 00:08:46.640 --> 00:08:48.640 a 100 top computer designers to an 00:08:48.640 --> 00:08:50.240 exclusive hackers conference in the 00:08:50.240 --> 00:08:51.760 secluded campsite north of San 00:08:51.760 --> 00:08:54.000 Francisco. Despite bad weather and crude 00:08:54.000 --> 00:08:55.760 living conditions, the camp was a true 00:08:55.760 --> 00:08:57.920 hacker heaven. Well stocked with plenty 00:08:57.920 --> 00:09:00.240 of computer toys and of course enough 00:09:00.240 --> 00:09:01.920 candy and soda to last through the 00:09:01.920 --> 00:09:04.080 night. But the real purpose of the get 00:09:04.080 --> 00:09:05.839 together was to discuss the unique set 00:09:05.839 --> 00:09:07.360 of values that made the [music] computer 00:09:07.360 --> 00:09:09.920 revolution possible and brainstorm about 00:09:09.920 --> 00:09:11.040 its future. 00:09:11.040 --> 00:09:13.040 >> My political platform is that we need an 00:09:13.040 --> 00:09:14.959 electronic declaration of independence. 00:09:14.959 --> 00:09:17.200 That last guy talking was John Perry 00:09:17.200 --> 00:09:19.440 Barlo, who at the time was a poet, an 00:09:19.440 --> 00:09:21.360 essayist, and lyricist for the Grateful 00:09:21.360 --> 00:09:23.200 Dead. And he stayed true to that 00:09:23.200 --> 00:09:25.680 mission. He did in fact go and publish a 00:09:25.680 --> 00:09:27.360 declaration of independence of 00:09:27.360 --> 00:09:29.519 cyberspace. I'm not going to read to you 00:09:29.519 --> 00:09:30.880 the whole thing, but let me at least 00:09:30.880 --> 00:09:32.800 quote to you the opening paragraph of 00:09:32.800 --> 00:09:35.279 this. Governments of the industrial 00:09:35.279 --> 00:09:37.279 world, you weary giants of flesh and 00:09:37.279 --> 00:09:39.839 steel, I come from cyberspace, a new 00:09:39.839 --> 00:09:42.720 home of mind. On behalf of the future, I 00:09:42.720 --> 00:09:45.120 ask you of the past to leave us alone. 00:09:45.120 --> 00:09:47.360 You are not welcome among us. You have 00:09:47.360 --> 00:09:50.480 no sovereignty where we gather. 00:09:50.480 --> 00:09:52.959 That's quite an opening for a 00:09:52.959 --> 00:09:55.600 declaration, right? John Perry Barlo is 00:09:55.600 --> 00:09:58.080 a bit of a badass if you ask me. Okay, 00:09:58.080 --> 00:09:59.680 so Harper's magazine, this was a 00:09:59.680 --> 00:10:01.360 mainstream magazine at the time which 00:10:01.360 --> 00:10:02.800 was covering things like politics, 00:10:02.800 --> 00:10:04.720 culture, literature. It had 00:10:04.720 --> 00:10:06.800 thought-provoking essays in it. And one 00:10:06.800 --> 00:10:08.959 thing it did regularly was a featured 00:10:08.959 --> 00:10:10.880 article that they called the forum where 00:10:10.880 --> 00:10:12.480 like three to five contributors would 00:10:12.480 --> 00:10:14.880 all try to answer big questions like 00:10:14.880 --> 00:10:17.120 what do we owe the planet and is the 00:10:17.120 --> 00:10:19.519 American experiment failing and the 00:10:19.519 --> 00:10:21.040 contributors would try to provide 00:10:21.040 --> 00:10:23.680 high-minded thoughtful responses. Well 00:10:23.680 --> 00:10:25.680 Harper saw that these computers were 00:10:25.680 --> 00:10:27.920 rising in popularity and saw that a lot 00:10:27.920 --> 00:10:29.360 of great thinkers were gathering there 00:10:29.360 --> 00:10:31.839 on Steuart Brand's BBS the well. So, 00:10:31.839 --> 00:10:33.839 they decided to run their very first 00:10:33.839 --> 00:10:36.720 virtual forum, basically a live chat 00:10:36.720 --> 00:10:39.600 room on the well, where they'd ask users 00:10:39.600 --> 00:10:41.200 big questions to get the conversations 00:10:41.200 --> 00:10:42.640 going for their magazines. Questions 00:10:42.640 --> 00:10:45.600 like, "Do we have a right to privacy?" 00:10:45.600 --> 00:10:49.200 And, "Should hackers respect that right? 00:10:49.200 --> 00:10:51.519 What ethical considerations arise when 00:10:51.519 --> 00:10:54.399 we become more connected digitally?" 00:10:54.399 --> 00:10:57.279 So in December 1989, Harper's magazine 00:10:57.279 --> 00:10:59.600 held this virtual forum, basically an 00:10:59.600 --> 00:11:01.360 open chat room for anyone to respond to 00:11:01.360 --> 00:11:03.680 on the well. John Perry Barlo was there, 00:11:03.680 --> 00:11:05.600 Clifford Stole was there, Steven Levy 00:11:05.600 --> 00:11:07.279 was there. A lot of influential people 00:11:07.279 --> 00:11:09.040 who actually were watching the chat, 00:11:09.040 --> 00:11:10.727 even some notable hackers like Mark 00:11:10.727 --> 00:11:12.880 [music] aka Fiber Optic, and Mark's 00:11:12.880 --> 00:11:14.880 friend Eli, who went by the name Acid 00:11:14.880 --> 00:11:17.360 Freak. But the internet did what the 00:11:17.360 --> 00:11:19.519 internet does, and it didn't quite fit 00:11:19.519 --> 00:11:21.279 into the high-minded discourse that 00:11:21.279 --> 00:11:23.440 Harpers was [music] hoping for. Instead, 00:11:23.440 --> 00:11:25.600 the place turned vulgar, immature, 00:11:25.600 --> 00:11:28.399 insulting, and yeah, lots of asky art 00:11:28.399 --> 00:11:30.160 was [music] posted. In fact, the 00:11:30.160 --> 00:11:31.920 participants flooded the chat room with 00:11:31.920 --> 00:11:34.079 over a 100,000 [music] words during the 00:11:34.079 --> 00:11:36.880 forum. John Perry Barlo thought he was 00:11:36.880 --> 00:11:38.800 on the hacker side, being libertarian 00:11:38.800 --> 00:11:40.720 and kind of punk by nature [music] and 00:11:40.720 --> 00:11:42.720 really was into computers himself, 00:11:42.720 --> 00:11:44.800 except these guys were just too annoying 00:11:44.800 --> 00:11:46.480 on the well [music] and not at all 00:11:46.480 --> 00:11:48.880 receptive to the simple arguments that 00:11:48.880 --> 00:11:52.320 hacking was troublesome. At a heated 00:11:52.320 --> 00:11:54.079 moment in the chat, John Perry [music] 00:11:54.079 --> 00:11:56.560 Barlo wrote that quote, "With hackers 00:11:56.560 --> 00:11:58.720 like Acid Freak and Fiber Optic), the 00:11:58.720 --> 00:12:00.160 issue is less intelligence than 00:12:00.160 --> 00:12:02.160 alienation. Trade their modems for 00:12:02.160 --> 00:12:03.839 skateboards, and only a slight 00:12:03.839 --> 00:12:06.480 conceptual shift would occur." Acid 00:12:06.480 --> 00:12:08.560 Freak and Fiber Optic didn't like being 00:12:08.560 --> 00:12:11.040 called out like that, and they replied, 00:12:11.040 --> 00:12:12.959 "You have some pair of balls comparing 00:12:12.959 --> 00:12:15.200 my talent with that of a skateboarder, 00:12:15.200 --> 00:12:17.920 huh? Well, this was indeed boring, but 00:12:17.920 --> 00:12:19.519 nonetheless, 00:12:19.519 --> 00:12:22.880 Fiber Optic then [snorts] somehow found 00:12:22.880 --> 00:12:25.360 a copy of John Perry Barlo's credit 00:12:25.360 --> 00:12:28.000 history and posted it to the forum for 00:12:28.000 --> 00:12:30.079 anyone to see. Like, what a crazy thing 00:12:30.079 --> 00:12:31.760 to drop in the middle of chat, right? 00:12:31.760 --> 00:12:34.580 Just someone's credit report. Bam. Well, 00:12:34.580 --> 00:12:37.279 [snorts] that spooked John Perry Barlo. 00:12:37.279 --> 00:12:38.959 He later wrote about how he felt when he 00:12:38.959 --> 00:12:40.880 saw his credit history posted like that. 00:12:40.880 --> 00:12:43.360 He said, quote, "I've been stuck in 00:12:43.360 --> 00:12:45.360 redneck bars wighing shoulderlength 00:12:45.360 --> 00:12:47.279 curls. I've been in police custody while 00:12:47.279 --> 00:12:49.760 on acid and in Harlem after midnight, 00:12:49.760 --> 00:12:52.000 but no one has ever put the spook in me 00:12:52.000 --> 00:12:54.320 quite as Fiber Optic did at that 00:12:54.320 --> 00:12:57.360 moment." It never took anybody long to 00:12:57.360 --> 00:13:00.320 realize that Mark aka Fiber Optic was 00:13:00.320 --> 00:13:02.800 the best hacker they knew. And that's 00:13:02.800 --> 00:13:04.800 how he got into the Legion of Doom. He 00:13:04.800 --> 00:13:06.560 borrowed a password from a friend. Then 00:13:06.560 --> 00:13:08.079 he navigated to the section where 00:13:08.079 --> 00:13:09.839 members discussed phone freaking and 00:13:09.839 --> 00:13:12.000 thought these guys are a joke. Sure, 00:13:12.000 --> 00:13:13.600 they have a few old technical manuals 00:13:13.600 --> 00:13:16.240 that I could recite in my sleep. So he 00:13:16.240 --> 00:13:17.440 started flooding them with new 00:13:17.440 --> 00:13:19.200 information. Sort of like an all- 00:13:19.200 --> 00:13:21.360 knowing god. And being an all- knowing 00:13:21.360 --> 00:13:23.760 hacker god can get to a kid's head, you 00:13:23.760 --> 00:13:25.760 know, like he liked the attention that 00:13:25.760 --> 00:13:27.680 people were giving him who thought he 00:13:27.680 --> 00:13:30.320 was amazing. And that's how Eric Bloodax 00:13:30.320 --> 00:13:32.160 felt about Mark. This guy who went by 00:13:32.160 --> 00:13:34.639 Eric Bloodax was a short guy with a 00:13:34.639 --> 00:13:36.639 goatee and grungy long blonde hair and 00:13:36.639 --> 00:13:38.880 hung out in the LOD forums. Bloodax was 00:13:38.880 --> 00:13:41.760 a member of the LOD, but Mark Mark said 00:13:41.760 --> 00:13:44.000 he was and he was in the forums that it 00:13:44.000 --> 00:13:46.079 was members only, but he wasn't listed 00:13:46.079 --> 00:13:48.560 as an actual member. It's like he hacked 00:13:48.560 --> 00:13:50.959 his way into the group. Well, Bloodax 00:13:50.959 --> 00:13:53.360 was confused, but quickly realized how 00:13:53.360 --> 00:13:55.440 good Mark was. A few weeks later, Mark 00:13:55.440 --> 00:13:58.079 was officially voted in. Bloodax 00:13:58.079 --> 00:14:00.800 respected Mark as a really great hacker, 00:14:00.800 --> 00:14:03.199 but he didn't really like Mark. He 00:14:03.199 --> 00:14:05.279 didn't like how Mark would trap hackers 00:14:05.279 --> 00:14:07.199 who would talk a big game and then he 00:14:07.199 --> 00:14:08.480 would totally embarrass them with his 00:14:08.480 --> 00:14:11.279 superior skills. And then one day in 00:14:11.279 --> 00:14:13.839 1989, he got a call from Mark. Mark 00:14:13.839 --> 00:14:15.680 wanted a back door that he knew Bloodax 00:14:15.680 --> 00:14:18.720 had to the 9X packet switching network. 00:14:18.720 --> 00:14:20.399 But Bloodax is like, "Well, what are you 00:14:20.399 --> 00:14:21.760 going to give me in return? If I give 00:14:21.760 --> 00:14:23.440 you this exploit, what are you going to 00:14:23.440 --> 00:14:24.079 give me?" >> [music] 00:14:24.079 --> 00:14:26.399 >> And Mark just hung up and called Bloodax 00:14:26.399 --> 00:14:28.399 his friend and told Bloodax his friend, 00:14:28.399 --> 00:14:30.720 "Hey, Bloodax wants me to have the uh 00:14:30.720 --> 00:14:32.480 back door into NX, can you send it to 00:14:32.480 --> 00:14:34.880 me?" And the his friend did send it to 00:14:34.880 --> 00:14:36.720 him. And then Bloodax found out about 00:14:36.720 --> 00:14:39.199 this and called Mark back. Bloodax was 00:14:39.199 --> 00:14:40.880 mad, but Mark wasn't having it. Mark 00:14:40.880 --> 00:14:42.639 just told him, "I don't know you shit." 00:14:42.639 --> 00:14:45.360 And Bloodax was like, "Well, excuse me. 00:14:45.360 --> 00:14:46.880 I don't owe you I didn't get it 00:14:46.880 --> 00:14:49.040 from you. I got it from Bob. you." 00:14:49.040 --> 00:14:51.360 And Bloodax was like, [music] "What? Did 00:14:51.360 --> 00:14:53.360 he just really curse out a member of the 00:14:53.360 --> 00:14:55.920 LOD? Mark said, "I don't have time for 00:14:55.920 --> 00:14:58.639 this." and hung up. And that's how Mark 00:14:58.639 --> 00:15:00.880 aka Fiber Optic got kicked out of the 00:15:00.880 --> 00:15:02.639 Legion of Doom by tricking Eric 00:15:02.639 --> 00:15:04.160 Bloodax's friend into giving him an 00:15:04.160 --> 00:15:06.240 exploit and then cursing out Blood Axe. 00:15:06.240 --> 00:15:09.120 The two clearly didn't get along. Mark 00:15:09.120 --> 00:15:11.279 figured whatever and shrugged it off. He 00:15:11.279 --> 00:15:14.000 could run circles around anyone in LOD 00:15:14.000 --> 00:15:16.160 or around all of them combined. If they 00:15:16.160 --> 00:15:18.000 were ever cool, they definitely weren't 00:15:18.000 --> 00:15:19.839 anymore. He was convinced that the 00:15:19.839 --> 00:15:22.240 Legion of Doom were hasbins. And he 00:15:22.240 --> 00:15:24.870 wasn't the only one who thought that. 00:15:24.870 --> 00:15:27.760 [music] 00:15:27.760 --> 00:15:29.120 In the last episode, I told you about 00:15:29.120 --> 00:15:31.040 this guy Paul who was trying to get into 00:15:31.040 --> 00:15:32.480 a computer, but all he was getting was 00:15:32.480 --> 00:15:34.160 S's and W's back and then he blew into 00:15:34.160 --> 00:15:36.399 the phone and all of a sudden he was in. 00:15:36.399 --> 00:15:37.760 Well, last we left him, he broke into 00:15:37.760 --> 00:15:39.199 the phone company, gave his friend three 00:15:39.199 --> 00:15:41.279 three-way calling, and he told his 00:15:41.279 --> 00:15:42.959 friend Eli about this, who's also known 00:15:42.959 --> 00:15:45.680 as Acid Freak. And Eli figured this must 00:15:45.680 --> 00:15:48.959 be a switching control center systems. 00:15:48.959 --> 00:15:50.720 And so Acid Freak was like, "Oh, that's 00:15:50.720 --> 00:15:52.399 that's really cool. We should we should 00:15:52.399 --> 00:15:54.880 show this to Mark aka Fiber Optic. See 00:15:54.880 --> 00:15:57.040 what he has to say about this." So they 00:15:57.040 --> 00:15:59.920 decided to call him up. Hey, what do you 00:15:59.920 --> 00:16:01.920 want? Mark asks. He gets called all the 00:16:01.920 --> 00:16:04.079 time by a lot of hackers. Paul and Eli 00:16:04.079 --> 00:16:06.240 were a bit intimidated but excited. So 00:16:06.240 --> 00:16:08.320 they told Mark that they think they got 00:16:08.320 --> 00:16:10.639 into an SECs, but they don't know what 00:16:10.639 --> 00:16:12.959 to do. You think or you know? Mark 00:16:12.959 --> 00:16:14.959 asked. Paul handed over the information 00:16:14.959 --> 00:16:16.720 and Mark checked it out. And Mark 00:16:16.720 --> 00:16:18.800 quickly figured it out. It wasn't an 00:16:18.800 --> 00:16:21.360 SECS. It was a telephone switch. 00:16:21.360 --> 00:16:24.800 Specifically, a DMS 100 switch. Mark got 00:16:24.800 --> 00:16:27.600 back on the line. It's not a SECS. It's 00:16:27.600 --> 00:16:30.959 a DMS 100. Of course, the system Paul 00:16:30.959 --> 00:16:32.560 had been trying to figure out for well 00:16:32.560 --> 00:16:34.800 over a year now. Mark identified in 00:16:34.800 --> 00:16:36.959 seconds. But Mark was sort of impressed 00:16:36.959 --> 00:16:39.680 that these two guys brought this to him 00:16:39.680 --> 00:16:41.600 and asked if Paul and Eli wanted to meet 00:16:41.600 --> 00:16:43.199 up. >> [music] 00:16:43.199 --> 00:16:44.399 >> It started with the three of them 00:16:44.399 --> 00:16:46.320 getting together at Eli's house. Mark 00:16:46.320 --> 00:16:48.720 did the typing and explaining. Paul and 00:16:48.720 --> 00:16:51.040 Eli watched and when they got hungry, 00:16:51.040 --> 00:16:52.880 they went to the mall. Mark liked eating 00:16:52.880 --> 00:16:54.639 the mashed potatoes at KFC because it 00:16:54.639 --> 00:16:57.600 calmed his stomach. It was fun, but Eli 00:16:57.600 --> 00:16:59.920 had bigger plans. He wanted to recruit 00:16:59.920 --> 00:17:02.079 more hackers to their little club, like 00:17:02.079 --> 00:17:03.680 this hot shot kid that they heard about 00:17:03.680 --> 00:17:05.439 just down the road. They were talking 00:17:05.439 --> 00:17:07.600 about a hacker calling himself corrupt, 00:17:07.600 --> 00:17:09.520 whose real name was actually John Lee. 00:17:09.520 --> 00:17:10.880 He was a black kid who lived with his 00:17:10.880 --> 00:17:12.319 mom in Bedstey, [music] which is a 00:17:12.319 --> 00:17:13.919 neighborhood in Brooklyn. And this was 00:17:13.919 --> 00:17:15.360 back when it was hardcore. Like John was 00:17:15.360 --> 00:17:17.839 in a gang. And not like a cyber gang, 00:17:17.839 --> 00:17:19.919 but an actual gang where guys robbed and 00:17:19.919 --> 00:17:22.799 sold drugs and stuff. IRL, but from a 00:17:22.799 --> 00:17:24.559 little beater Commodore 64 in his 00:17:24.559 --> 00:17:27.356 cramped bedroom, John Lee was a savant. 00:17:27.356 --> 00:17:28.880 [music] Eli kept talking saying that 00:17:28.880 --> 00:17:31.600 John Lee's specialty is vax computers. 00:17:31.600 --> 00:17:33.200 And these things have way more hard 00:17:33.200 --> 00:17:35.440 drive space, more CPU power than 00:17:35.440 --> 00:17:37.182 anything most people touch those days. 00:17:37.182 --> 00:17:39.039 [music] And vaxes were popular in large 00:17:39.039 --> 00:17:40.880 businesses and universities. Some of the 00:17:40.880 --> 00:17:42.960 best secrets in cyerspace were kept on 00:17:42.960 --> 00:17:45.280 vaxes. [music] Eli called John on his 00:17:45.280 --> 00:17:47.440 phone. John was impressed. How'd you get 00:17:47.440 --> 00:17:49.200 my number? Do you want to join our 00:17:49.200 --> 00:17:52.720 hacker club? H I'm interested. So John 00:17:52.720 --> 00:17:54.160 Lee came over and he brought his friend 00:17:54.160 --> 00:17:56.799 Julio whose hacker name is Outlaw and he 00:17:56.799 --> 00:17:58.720 lived in the Bronx and he was barely 15 00:17:58.720 --> 00:18:00.799 at [music] the time. And so this new 00:18:00.799 --> 00:18:03.200 hacker collective was starting to form. 00:18:03.200 --> 00:18:05.039 The best of the best hackers in New York 00:18:05.039 --> 00:18:06.559 City were all coming together. There was 00:18:06.559 --> 00:18:09.360 Mark aka Fiber Optic, Eli which was 00:18:09.360 --> 00:18:11.360 going by Acidre Freak, Paul who was 00:18:11.360 --> 00:18:14.000 Scorpion, John Lee who was corrupt, and 00:18:14.000 --> 00:18:16.480 Julio who called himself Outlaw. The 00:18:16.480 --> 00:18:18.080 place they started meeting at was at the 00:18:18.080 --> 00:18:20.320 City Corp Center, 601 Lexington Avenue 00:18:20.320 --> 00:18:21.919 in Midtown Manhattan. It's one of the 00:18:21.919 --> 00:18:23.840 funkiest skyscrapers you'll ever see and 00:18:23.840 --> 00:18:26.000 makes no sense architecturally. From 00:18:26.000 --> 00:18:27.679 9:00 to 5:00 Monday through Friday, City 00:18:27.679 --> 00:18:29.840 Corp Center was home for some of the big 00:18:29.840 --> 00:18:31.360 time companies like City Bank, of 00:18:31.360 --> 00:18:34.880 course, uh IBM, uh law firms. But once a 00:18:34.880 --> 00:18:37.120 month on a weekend at 6:00 p.m., a 00:18:37.120 --> 00:18:38.640 totally different demographic would 00:18:38.640 --> 00:18:41.200 emerge from the grimy subways, young 00:18:41.200 --> 00:18:44.240 men, and oversized jeans, skateboards, 00:18:44.240 --> 00:18:47.039 sneakers, and backwards baseball caps 00:18:47.039 --> 00:18:49.120 would come into the City Corp building 00:18:49.120 --> 00:18:51.120 because this is where the 2600 meetup 00:18:51.120 --> 00:18:54.160 would happen. [music] 2600 is also a 00:18:54.160 --> 00:18:55.919 hacker magazine which would host local 00:18:55.919 --> 00:18:57.760 meetups in different cities. It's 00:18:57.760 --> 00:19:00.000 Frack's most well-known counterpart. 00:19:00.000 --> 00:19:01.679 Readers brought stuff they'd find from 00:19:01.679 --> 00:19:03.840 their spoils from dumpster dives and 00:19:03.840 --> 00:19:05.600 their latest stolen passwords. They 00:19:05.600 --> 00:19:06.880 traded knowledge and they would mess 00:19:06.880 --> 00:19:08.720 with the pay phones in the atrium, like 00:19:08.720 --> 00:19:10.160 trying to get free phone calls on them 00:19:10.160 --> 00:19:12.640 or dial someone to social engineer them. 00:19:12.640 --> 00:19:14.160 And of course, they always found ways so 00:19:14.160 --> 00:19:15.840 they didn't have to pay for it. Somebody 00:19:15.840 --> 00:19:17.200 would know the right number to call to 00:19:17.200 --> 00:19:19.600 avoid a toll or they bring a blue box or 00:19:19.600 --> 00:19:22.160 something. And at this 2600 hacker 00:19:22.160 --> 00:19:24.960 meetup is where Mark, Eli, Paul, John 00:19:24.960 --> 00:19:27.440 Lee, and Julio would meet up. They 00:19:27.440 --> 00:19:29.120 enjoyed showing off what they learned, 00:19:29.120 --> 00:19:30.640 and they learned new things from other 00:19:30.640 --> 00:19:32.480 hackers. They'd talk shop, they'd get 00:19:32.480 --> 00:19:34.880 info, they'd show off their tricks and 00:19:34.880 --> 00:19:37.120 network with other hackers. For the most 00:19:37.120 --> 00:19:39.039 part, the people who came to the 2600 00:19:39.039 --> 00:19:41.360 hacker meetup didn't have any intent of 00:19:41.360 --> 00:19:43.200 causing destruction or making money. 00:19:43.200 --> 00:19:45.440 Everyone was all just so curious and 00:19:45.440 --> 00:19:47.840 wanted to know how computers worked and 00:19:47.840 --> 00:19:49.360 find really clever ways to do things 00:19:49.360 --> 00:19:51.600 with them. It was sort of the essence of 00:19:51.600 --> 00:19:53.360 what they were all about. They shared 00:19:53.360 --> 00:19:55.520 the Legion of Doom's moral code. No 00:19:55.520 --> 00:19:58.160 making money, no causing harm, but they 00:19:58.160 --> 00:20:00.160 were also cut from a different cloth. 00:20:00.160 --> 00:20:02.593 They weren't just as good. No, they were 00:20:02.593 --> 00:20:04.480 [music] better than Legion of Doom. 00:20:04.480 --> 00:20:06.640 Definitely better. And a bit tougher, 00:20:06.640 --> 00:20:08.720 too. Not like those guys in the suburbs 00:20:08.720 --> 00:20:11.200 who had nice computers and drove cars. 00:20:11.200 --> 00:20:13.840 These guys pulled together salvaged and 00:20:13.840 --> 00:20:16.240 scrapped computer parts to build things, 00:20:16.240 --> 00:20:18.880 and they rode the subway. Ira Glass was 00:20:18.880 --> 00:20:20.960 able to interview Eli on This American 00:20:20.960 --> 00:20:23.200 Life in the early 90s and it's an 00:20:23.200 --> 00:20:24.960 incredible view into what these kids 00:20:24.960 --> 00:20:28.159 were doing then. Here, listen. We did 00:20:28.159 --> 00:20:29.440 this from payoneses. [music] We'd have a 00:20:29.440 --> 00:20:31.200 line of payoneses. We get into the 00:20:31.200 --> 00:20:33.039 computer first liberate one phone with 00:20:33.039 --> 00:20:35.280 liberating [music] meaning make it so 00:20:35.280 --> 00:20:36.640 that you don't need quarters for that 00:20:36.640 --> 00:20:38.159 pay phone. You just pick up and dial 00:20:38.159 --> 00:20:39.760 like a regular house phone. [music] So 00:20:39.760 --> 00:20:40.880 that way we can make endless amount of 00:20:40.880 --> 00:20:43.039 phone calls without putting quarters. 00:20:43.039 --> 00:20:44.880 Next step was to [music] get into the 00:20:44.880 --> 00:20:48.480 network, find a session that was already 00:20:48.480 --> 00:20:51.679 going [music] and then knock them off 00:20:51.679 --> 00:20:53.679 while they were connected and then sit 00:20:53.679 --> 00:20:55.919 there watching them. In other words, put 00:20:55.919 --> 00:20:57.280 us in their place in [music] the place 00:20:57.280 --> 00:20:58.240 of the computer they were going to 00:20:58.240 --> 00:21:00.000 connect to. So next time they try to log 00:21:00.000 --> 00:21:01.840 in, they would get our computer and we'd 00:21:01.840 --> 00:21:04.320 type in login and they'd put in their 00:21:04.320 --> 00:21:07.520 login account. Then we'd go password, 00:21:07.520 --> 00:21:09.280 you know, the password there, okay, 00:21:09.280 --> 00:21:10.080 password. They put their [music] 00:21:10.080 --> 00:21:11.760 password in and then we would have, you 00:21:11.760 --> 00:21:12.799 know, all these things were already 00:21:12.799 --> 00:21:14.640 encoded in one key. So we could just hit 00:21:14.640 --> 00:21:16.559 one key and, you know, it wouldn't look 00:21:16.559 --> 00:21:18.080 like we were typing it. 00:21:18.080 --> 00:21:20.240 >> We would login would just appear 00:21:20.240 --> 00:21:20.799 password. 00:21:20.799 --> 00:21:22.504 >> Then we hit the password key, password. 00:21:22.504 --> 00:21:24.240 [music] Then we'd say login incorrect 00:21:24.240 --> 00:21:25.760 and then disconnect from them, but we 00:21:25.760 --> 00:21:27.360 already got their login and password and 00:21:27.360 --> 00:21:28.640 then when they reconnected, it would be 00:21:28.640 --> 00:21:30.364 the regular system. So they figure, hey, 00:21:30.364 --> 00:21:32.159 [music] I made a mistake typing it in or 00:21:32.159 --> 00:21:33.600 something. And that's how we would get 00:21:33.600 --> 00:21:37.120 an account. It was like it was funny, 00:21:37.120 --> 00:21:44.799 you know. >> [music] 00:21:44.799 --> 00:21:46.240 >> You get into things that are good. You 00:21:46.240 --> 00:21:47.600 start targeting systems that are 00:21:47.600 --> 00:21:49.440 interesting and then you start 00:21:49.440 --> 00:21:50.559 developing a collection. It's like 00:21:50.559 --> 00:21:53.039 baseball cards. I have NASA. I have uh 00:21:53.039 --> 00:21:55.840 you know [music] NSA. I've got uh Phone 00:21:55.840 --> 00:21:57.520 Company computers. I've got My Misar. 00:21:57.520 --> 00:21:59.120 I've got Cosmos. I've got this. I've got 00:21:59.120 --> 00:22:01.150 that. McDonald Douglas. Marian Marietta. 00:22:01.150 --> 00:22:04.559 [music] You know, TRW, CBI, TransUnion. 00:22:04.559 --> 00:22:06.080 What else can I get? you know, you try 00:22:06.080 --> 00:22:08.320 to get the [music] like big names, you 00:22:08.320 --> 00:22:09.679 know, so you start developing a 00:22:09.679 --> 00:22:11.360 collection, you know. Then after a 00:22:11.360 --> 00:22:12.640 while, it became fun to [music] like 00:22:12.640 --> 00:22:14.640 look up famous people. Let's look up 00:22:14.640 --> 00:22:16.799 John Gotti's credit, you know, let's see 00:22:16.799 --> 00:22:19.200 what he owns. [music] Let's look up uh 00:22:19.200 --> 00:22:20.960 Julia Roberts, you know, let's get our 00:22:20.960 --> 00:22:22.110 home phone number. Let's get this 00:22:22.110 --> 00:22:23.679 [music] guy's home phone number. We were 00:22:23.679 --> 00:22:25.120 just so excited. We were getting all 00:22:25.120 --> 00:22:26.640 that stuff and it was just a rush, you 00:22:26.640 --> 00:22:29.120 know. It was the flow, you know, once 00:22:29.120 --> 00:22:30.720 you once you start going, you can't 00:22:30.720 --> 00:22:32.159 stop. You know, you're just steamrolling 00:22:32.159 --> 00:22:34.159 one after the other and the flow gets 00:22:34.159 --> 00:22:35.520 you going and then you're just like, 00:22:35.520 --> 00:22:37.760 "Yeah, we're we rule." You know, we're 00:22:37.760 --> 00:22:40.400 it. It breaks down all barriers. Nothing 00:22:40.400 --> 00:22:41.600 can [music] stop the flow. If you got 00:22:41.600 --> 00:22:43.600 the flow, you can conquer everything. 00:22:43.600 --> 00:22:45.919 This what people call being in the zone. 00:22:45.919 --> 00:22:46.880 You know, once [music] you're in there, 00:22:46.880 --> 00:22:52.159 you can't stop. It's the juice. 00:22:52.159 --> 00:22:54.000 That was Eli talking about what him, 00:22:54.000 --> 00:22:56.080 Mark, Paul, John Lee, and Julio were 00:22:56.080 --> 00:22:57.480 doing in New York City back then. 00:22:57.480 --> 00:22:59.440 [music] It was a golden time. And Paul 00:22:59.440 --> 00:23:01.360 came up with an idea. He said they 00:23:01.360 --> 00:23:02.960 should give their little hacker group a 00:23:02.960 --> 00:23:07.200 name like M O, which was a joke. Like L 00:23:07.200 --> 00:23:10.240 OD, but one letter higher, M O. Did it 00:23:10.240 --> 00:23:12.400 stand for anything? Nah, who cares? 00:23:12.400 --> 00:23:14.640 Wait, [music] okay, it could. Um, 00:23:14.640 --> 00:23:17.440 Masters of Disaster. No, Masters of 00:23:17.440 --> 00:23:20.559 Deception. Yeah. And so [music] a new 00:23:20.559 --> 00:23:23.600 hacker group was born. Masters of 00:23:23.600 --> 00:23:27.600 Deception. >> [music] 00:23:27.600 --> 00:23:30.080 >> If anything, it's surprising how little 00:23:30.080 --> 00:23:31.360 they did with their power over 00:23:31.360 --> 00:23:33.919 computers. [music] It was mostly pranks, 00:23:33.919 --> 00:23:35.280 making somebody's phone ring 00:23:35.280 --> 00:23:37.600 continuously, turning an enemy's home 00:23:37.600 --> 00:23:38.880 phone line into [music] a pay phone 00:23:38.880 --> 00:23:41.200 line. So, when the guy picked up his 00:23:41.200 --> 00:23:42.559 phone at home, it demanded that he 00:23:42.559 --> 00:23:45.200 deposit a quarter, you know, because 00:23:45.200 --> 00:23:46.320 there's no way he could do that because 00:23:46.320 --> 00:23:48.880 it's his home phone. They did actually 00:23:48.880 --> 00:23:51.520 call Julia Roberts once. They called 00:23:51.520 --> 00:23:54.159 Queen Elizabeth, too. But but [music] 00:23:54.159 --> 00:23:56.559 there's an emptiness at the heart of a 00:23:56.559 --> 00:23:58.480 lot of these stories once you've [music] 00:23:58.480 --> 00:24:00.960 got the queen on the phone. You know 00:24:00.960 --> 00:24:02.720 what do you say? 00:24:02.720 --> 00:24:05.280 >> She's like hello you know she's talking 00:24:05.280 --> 00:24:07.200 to us and stuff and we don't know what 00:24:07.200 --> 00:24:08.799 to say. Hi we're calling from the United 00:24:08.799 --> 00:24:10.159 States and this and that and she knew 00:24:10.159 --> 00:24:12.400 what was up. He's like okay hello and 00:24:12.400 --> 00:24:14.480 she said goodbye and that was it. You 00:24:14.480 --> 00:24:16.240 know we didn't know what to say. What do 00:24:16.240 --> 00:24:18.799 you say to Queen Elizabeth? You know hi. 00:24:18.799 --> 00:24:21.600 So, uh, you see [music] that movie, uh, 00:24:21.600 --> 00:24:24.400 True Lies? You know, what do you say? 00:24:24.400 --> 00:24:26.960 You know, it's just like the the the fun 00:24:26.960 --> 00:24:30.159 of it is finding the number. 00:24:30.159 --> 00:24:31.520 >> I'd probably ask her what kind of 00:24:31.520 --> 00:24:33.039 computer she has. I mean, she's the 00:24:33.039 --> 00:24:34.000 queen. She's got to have the best 00:24:34.000 --> 00:24:36.080 computer in the world, right? All right, 00:24:36.080 --> 00:24:37.360 we're going to take a quick uh ad break 00:24:37.360 --> 00:24:38.880 here, but stay with us cuz when we come 00:24:38.880 --> 00:24:42.559 back, everything's about to get crazy. 00:24:42.559 --> 00:24:44.240 Now, all that was brewing in New York 00:24:44.240 --> 00:24:46.240 City right before that big phone outage 00:24:46.240 --> 00:24:48.960 in AT&T that happened on MLK Day in 00:24:48.960 --> 00:24:50.640 1999. Right where we left off at the 00:24:50.640 --> 00:24:52.080 last episode. Remember the one that 00:24:52.080 --> 00:24:54.080 caused millions of calls to not go 00:24:54.080 --> 00:24:55.600 through? That one that made the police 00:24:55.600 --> 00:24:57.600 and Secret Service go into full panic 00:24:57.600 --> 00:25:00.400 mode? Yeah. LOD was their initial 00:25:00.400 --> 00:25:03.200 suspect, but maybe this new group mod 00:25:03.200 --> 00:25:05.200 had something to do with it too, right? 00:25:05.200 --> 00:25:07.840 The police didn't necessarily know of 00:25:07.840 --> 00:25:09.600 Masters of Deception as their group 00:25:09.600 --> 00:25:11.120 name, but they definitely were tracking 00:25:11.120 --> 00:25:14.240 these people individually. Why? Because 00:25:14.240 --> 00:25:16.159 Tom Kaiser and Fred Staples, the 00:25:16.159 --> 00:25:17.679 engineers from the New York Telephone 00:25:17.679 --> 00:25:19.520 Company, were on to them. They were 00:25:19.520 --> 00:25:21.120 watching their phone calls and trace the 00:25:21.120 --> 00:25:22.880 numbers around. That number they kept 00:25:22.880 --> 00:25:24.720 calling in Queens, that was Mark's 00:25:24.720 --> 00:25:26.400 number. And the people calling it were 00:25:26.400 --> 00:25:29.679 Paul, Eli, John Lee, and Julio. The New 00:25:29.679 --> 00:25:31.600 York telephone security team was 00:25:31.600 --> 00:25:34.400 watching all these kids hack into phone 00:25:34.400 --> 00:25:37.279 systems all over and called the police 00:25:37.279 --> 00:25:39.840 and the police called the Secret Service 00:25:39.840 --> 00:25:41.600 who was already working with Bell South 00:25:41.600 --> 00:25:43.120 to try to catch hackers. 00:25:43.120 --> 00:25:45.679 >> Bell South cracked down hard on Adam and 00:25:45.679 --> 00:25:47.520 the others even though it acknowledges 00:25:47.520 --> 00:25:50.000 they never disrupted phone service or 00:25:50.000 --> 00:25:52.400 changed any customer accounts. 00:25:52.400 --> 00:25:55.520 >> We don't care what the motive may or may 00:25:55.520 --> 00:25:58.799 not be. Scott Tyer is a corporate 00:25:58.799 --> 00:26:00.640 spokesman for Bell South. 00:26:00.640 --> 00:26:02.960 >> We are not talking about Wall-E and the 00:26:02.960 --> 00:26:05.360 Bee, much less Eddie Haskell. We're not 00:26:05.360 --> 00:26:06.799 dealing with a bunch of mischievous 00:26:06.799 --> 00:26:08.960 pranksters playing in some high-tech 00:26:08.960 --> 00:26:12.640 toilet. This is a crime. 00:26:12.640 --> 00:26:14.960 >> Bell South is just one example of a 00:26:14.960 --> 00:26:17.600 company stalked by hackers. In a recent 00:26:17.600 --> 00:26:19.600 New York case, members of a club known 00:26:19.600 --> 00:26:21.600 as the Masters of Deception were 00:26:21.600 --> 00:26:23.600 indicted, accused of hacking into 00:26:23.600 --> 00:26:26.400 institutions like the Bank of America. 00:26:26.400 --> 00:26:29.120 Martin Marietta, Pacific Bell, 00:26:29.120 --> 00:26:32.080 Southwestern Bell, New York Telephone, 00:26:32.080 --> 00:26:35.919 TRW, Information America, and New York 00:26:35.919 --> 00:26:38.640 University. Jeez, what a list. And the 00:26:38.640 --> 00:26:40.080 police were trying to piece all this 00:26:40.080 --> 00:26:41.360 together and trying to figure out who 00:26:41.360 --> 00:26:44.000 was doing what. But that's a huge list 00:26:44.000 --> 00:26:47.039 of companies. How did they get into all 00:26:47.039 --> 00:26:50.159 those things? Partly thanks to Jason. 00:26:50.159 --> 00:26:53.520 Jason Snitker aka Paramaster and his 00:26:53.520 --> 00:26:57.279 strange magical back door. A back door 00:26:57.279 --> 00:26:59.440 that was bigger than any back door I've 00:26:59.440 --> 00:27:01.520 ever heard of. This is another one of 00:27:01.520 --> 00:27:02.880 those parts of the story that's so crazy 00:27:02.880 --> 00:27:04.559 that I didn't even believe it at first. 00:27:04.559 --> 00:27:06.159 But in preparing for this episode, we 00:27:06.159 --> 00:27:07.840 managed to find and get a hold of Jason, 00:27:07.840 --> 00:27:09.600 and he confirmed what really happened. 00:27:09.600 --> 00:27:12.240 The story dates back to 1988 when Jason 00:27:12.240 --> 00:27:14.159 was in high school. He got curious with 00:27:14.159 --> 00:27:15.679 his modem and computer and ended up 00:27:15.679 --> 00:27:17.120 getting into a bunch of computers at 00:27:17.120 --> 00:27:19.440 City Bank. In fact, he got into a system 00:27:19.440 --> 00:27:21.600 that was used to mint debit cards for 00:27:21.600 --> 00:27:23.679 different banks in Saudi Arabia. He saw 00:27:23.679 --> 00:27:25.279 this and tried to mint his own cards. 00:27:25.279 --> 00:27:27.120 And yeah, he was able to use the City 00:27:27.120 --> 00:27:29.360 Bank computer to create 10,000 new debit 00:27:29.360 --> 00:27:31.039 card numbers, which were all valid since 00:27:31.039 --> 00:27:32.880 they were in the bank's database. And 00:27:32.880 --> 00:27:34.720 you know, sharing is caring. He couldn't 00:27:34.720 --> 00:27:36.400 even use a fraction of these cards. So, 00:27:36.400 --> 00:27:37.840 he just spread them around in all the 00:27:37.840 --> 00:27:39.679 hacking forums. And now, suddenly, 00:27:39.679 --> 00:27:41.440 everyone had their own blank check from 00:27:41.440 --> 00:27:43.520 the bank. He worried that he might get 00:27:43.520 --> 00:27:45.679 caught for that. [music] But that wasn't 00:27:45.679 --> 00:27:48.000 his biggest worry. The way he'd gotten 00:27:48.000 --> 00:27:49.200 into City Bank in the [music] first 00:27:49.200 --> 00:27:52.240 place was this back door he had. And the 00:27:52.240 --> 00:27:54.720 back door got him into a lot of other 00:27:54.720 --> 00:27:58.559 places, too. Places in cyberspace that 00:27:58.559 --> 00:28:01.840 no ordinary person should go. He saw 00:28:01.840 --> 00:28:06.080 stuff. Military secrets. A killer 00:28:06.080 --> 00:28:08.880 satellite that could cut up Soviet 00:28:08.880 --> 00:28:11.840 satellites with a laser. top secret 00:28:11.840 --> 00:28:14.720 stuff. He wondered if he saw something 00:28:14.720 --> 00:28:17.840 so important or so top secret that if 00:28:17.840 --> 00:28:19.840 they found out that he saw it, they 00:28:19.840 --> 00:28:22.080 would delete him because doesn't the 00:28:22.080 --> 00:28:24.480 government try to make people disappear 00:28:24.480 --> 00:28:26.640 that they don't like? 00:28:26.640 --> 00:28:28.640 Even today, almost 40 years later, Jason 00:28:28.640 --> 00:28:30.159 talks about what he found with some 00:28:30.159 --> 00:28:32.000 feeling. He told us about a press 00:28:32.000 --> 00:28:34.320 release that he saw for that satellite 00:28:34.320 --> 00:28:35.919 with information about a laser system 00:28:35.919 --> 00:28:37.840 that never became public. He sent us 00:28:37.840 --> 00:28:40.320 this ominous message. quote, "When you 00:28:40.320 --> 00:28:42.080 could show what is being changed to 00:28:42.080 --> 00:28:44.480 withhold information, what might the 00:28:44.480 --> 00:28:46.720 government be protecting?" 00:28:46.720 --> 00:28:48.960 Just imagine these being your problems 00:28:48.960 --> 00:28:50.880 as a teenager. I remember when I was 00:28:50.880 --> 00:28:52.799 that age, I would get a bad grade in 00:28:52.799 --> 00:28:54.399 school or some girl wouldn't like me or 00:28:54.399 --> 00:28:55.760 something and that felt like the end of 00:28:55.760 --> 00:28:58.000 the world to me. But for Jason Snick 00:28:58.000 --> 00:28:59.919 Curry, he was stressed out simply by 00:28:59.919 --> 00:29:02.480 knowing things, top secret things that 00:29:02.480 --> 00:29:04.159 the government didn't really want him to 00:29:04.159 --> 00:29:06.880 know. So he decided to split out of 00:29:06.880 --> 00:29:08.960 there from California and move to New 00:29:08.960 --> 00:29:11.200 York Coney Island. But now New York 00:29:11.200 --> 00:29:12.320 State Police were starting to get 00:29:12.320 --> 00:29:14.240 suspicion of what hackers were up to. 00:29:14.240 --> 00:29:16.640 And an officer went to spy on the 2600 00:29:16.640 --> 00:29:18.000 hacker meet up in the city court 00:29:18.000 --> 00:29:20.559 building. Yeah. A cop came to the hacker 00:29:20.559 --> 00:29:22.320 meetup to try to look around. But 00:29:22.320 --> 00:29:23.840 luckily Jason wasn't there to 00:29:23.840 --> 00:29:26.000 accidentally reveal like what he saw on 00:29:26.000 --> 00:29:28.000 the military's computers because he 00:29:28.000 --> 00:29:29.600 wasn't keeping these secrets to himself. 00:29:29.600 --> 00:29:31.520 Like while he was in New York, he met up 00:29:31.520 --> 00:29:33.840 and hung out with John Lee at Grand 00:29:33.840 --> 00:29:36.399 Central Station and in a deal over the 00:29:36.399 --> 00:29:40.720 phone he traded his back door to Mark. 00:29:40.720 --> 00:29:42.240 And then almost immediately after that, 00:29:42.240 --> 00:29:44.159 he got arrested and was brought to court 00:29:44.159 --> 00:29:46.880 over all those stolen credit cards. So 00:29:46.880 --> 00:29:49.520 what was this back door that he gave to 00:29:49.520 --> 00:29:52.640 John Lee and Mark? Well, it was a back 00:29:52.640 --> 00:29:56.880 door to let you in a huge network. It 00:29:56.880 --> 00:29:59.440 would get you into the lowest most inner 00:29:59.440 --> 00:30:03.039 core of timeet. 00:30:03.039 --> 00:30:04.799 Timeet was an international 00:30:04.799 --> 00:30:06.720 communication network before the 00:30:06.720 --> 00:30:08.240 internet that we know today was 00:30:08.240 --> 00:30:10.000 invented. It serviced the kind of 00:30:10.000 --> 00:30:12.080 organizations that needed to perform 00:30:12.080 --> 00:30:14.000 heavyduty possibly international 00:30:14.000 --> 00:30:16.080 communications, government agencies, 00:30:16.080 --> 00:30:17.840 large companies, that sort of thing. 00:30:17.840 --> 00:30:19.840 Today, of course, the idea that you 00:30:19.840 --> 00:30:21.760 could use a back door to unlock the core 00:30:21.760 --> 00:30:24.320 of the internet is ridiculous. But on 00:30:24.320 --> 00:30:26.880 timeet it was possible because while 00:30:26.880 --> 00:30:28.399 there were a lot of companies using 00:30:28.399 --> 00:30:31.279 timeet and connected to it timeet itself 00:30:31.279 --> 00:30:34.320 was operated by a single company someone 00:30:34.320 --> 00:30:36.000 had to manage the infrastructure for it 00:30:36.000 --> 00:30:37.951 and so it was a centralized network 00:30:37.951 --> 00:30:40.000 [music] there was a computer which was a 00:30:40.000 --> 00:30:41.760 supervisor that could oversee the whole 00:30:41.760 --> 00:30:43.919 network and that's what this back door 00:30:43.919 --> 00:30:45.760 gave them access to. [music] They were 00:30:45.760 --> 00:30:48.240 in a supervisor level of one of the 00:30:48.240 --> 00:30:49.919 biggest networks in the world at the 00:30:49.919 --> 00:30:52.640 time. Jason had managed to get access to 00:30:52.640 --> 00:30:54.640 this through a network engineer in the 00:30:54.640 --> 00:30:56.399 company's internal network and he told 00:30:56.399 --> 00:30:58.559 us that it allowed him to drop right 00:30:58.559 --> 00:31:01.279 into their shell and he stole timeet's 00:31:01.279 --> 00:31:03.440 source code which was proprietary at the 00:31:03.440 --> 00:31:05.520 time. This was about as deep as you 00:31:05.520 --> 00:31:07.679 could possibly go. And honestly, even 00:31:07.679 --> 00:31:08.799 now I have questions about this thing. 00:31:08.799 --> 00:31:10.559 When we asked for specifics, Jason 00:31:10.559 --> 00:31:12.080 described it more like a numerical 00:31:12.080 --> 00:31:14.880 algorithm than code. So complicated that 00:31:14.880 --> 00:31:16.799 he claims even Mark couldn't figure it 00:31:16.799 --> 00:31:18.799 out. [music] Mark who could figure out 00:31:18.799 --> 00:31:20.960 anything. Whether he understood it or 00:31:20.960 --> 00:31:23.600 not, for Mark, this magic access must 00:31:23.600 --> 00:31:26.159 have made him feel like Dorothy stepping 00:31:26.159 --> 00:31:27.679 into Oz. You know that famous scene 00:31:27.679 --> 00:31:28.880 where it's black and white and then the 00:31:28.880 --> 00:31:31.600 screen suddenly fills with color. Mark 00:31:31.600 --> 00:31:33.840 had a whole new system to explore, a 00:31:33.840 --> 00:31:36.320 whole new network to explore and so many 00:31:36.320 --> 00:31:38.559 computers were on this and he was going 00:31:38.559 --> 00:31:40.880 to master it. And boy did he. [music] 00:31:40.880 --> 00:31:42.559 The sugar rush that came with hacking 00:31:42.559 --> 00:31:44.640 company after company. Mark found some 00:31:44.640 --> 00:31:47.039 of Timeet's own PDP10s and these were 00:31:47.039 --> 00:31:48.960 big hulking mainframes that were used to 00:31:48.960 --> 00:31:51.039 store administrative manuals and a bunch 00:31:51.039 --> 00:31:52.799 of other stuff. [music] Administrator 00:31:52.799 --> 00:31:54.480 manuals might sound boring to you, but 00:31:54.480 --> 00:31:56.960 to Mark and MOD, these were priceless. 00:31:56.960 --> 00:31:58.880 Instruction guides for how to go further 00:31:58.880 --> 00:32:00.880 and further into every corner of the 00:32:00.880 --> 00:32:03.200 internet. At a certain point, Mark 00:32:03.200 --> 00:32:05.067 literally couldn't go any deeper. Where 00:32:05.067 --> 00:32:07.039 [music] Timeet's staff might only be 00:32:07.039 --> 00:32:08.399 able to see what's relevant to their 00:32:08.399 --> 00:32:10.640 jobs and Timeet users could only see 00:32:10.640 --> 00:32:12.559 what's on their own networks. [music] 00:32:12.559 --> 00:32:14.960 The masters of deception could see it 00:32:14.960 --> 00:32:17.840 all and access it all, too. He was 00:32:17.840 --> 00:32:20.880 tapped into the matrix. It's odd to say, 00:32:20.880 --> 00:32:23.360 but hacking the NSA, Bank of America, 00:32:23.360 --> 00:32:25.360 whatever, [music] it was almost trivial 00:32:25.360 --> 00:32:27.360 with this back door. They could easily 00:32:27.360 --> 00:32:29.279 find their way into a ton [music] of 00:32:29.279 --> 00:32:31.840 interesting networks. Spying on any 00:32:31.840 --> 00:32:33.840 person was simple, too, because the 00:32:33.840 --> 00:32:35.519 companies that held everyone's personal 00:32:35.519 --> 00:32:38.399 information were on Time. Through them, 00:32:38.399 --> 00:32:40.159 you could look up yourself, your rival 00:32:40.159 --> 00:32:42.080 hacker, or Julie Roberts to [music] see 00:32:42.080 --> 00:32:44.640 her finances or her phone number or even 00:32:44.640 --> 00:32:46.720 where she lived. At this point, the 00:32:46.720 --> 00:32:48.240 masters [music] of deception must have 00:32:48.240 --> 00:32:51.679 felt unstoppable. Mark, John, and Julio 00:32:51.679 --> 00:32:53.679 would watch Timeet's administrators as 00:32:53.679 --> 00:32:55.440 they change their passwords, or they 00:32:55.440 --> 00:32:57.039 could read the Timeet security 00:32:57.039 --> 00:32:58.640 department's [music] emails. They could 00:32:58.640 --> 00:33:00.399 anticipate anything that might threaten 00:33:00.399 --> 00:33:02.720 their access because they knew about new 00:33:02.720 --> 00:33:04.399 security features and plans before those 00:33:04.399 --> 00:33:05.679 features and plans were even 00:33:05.679 --> 00:33:07.919 implemented. Now, remember when I talked 00:33:07.919 --> 00:33:09.760 about Esquire magazine, interviewing the 00:33:09.760 --> 00:33:12.159 guy who made the blue box in 1971? Well, 00:33:12.159 --> 00:33:13.919 at one point, Esquire interviewed 00:33:13.919 --> 00:33:15.600 someone from the Masters of Deception 00:33:15.600 --> 00:33:17.039 and said, "Hey, if you're really good as 00:33:17.039 --> 00:33:18.799 you say you are, prove [music] it. Hack 00:33:18.799 --> 00:33:20.799 into the White House right now." And the 00:33:20.799 --> 00:33:23.760 story goes that mod members hacked into 00:33:23.760 --> 00:33:25.840 the White House in front of Esquire 00:33:25.840 --> 00:33:28.320 reporters. That's how wild of a time it 00:33:28.320 --> 00:33:32.080 was. The masters of deception were the 00:33:32.080 --> 00:33:35.679 most powerful people in cyberspace. 00:33:35.679 --> 00:33:38.480 Well, Legion of who? Oh yeah, I almost 00:33:38.480 --> 00:33:40.960 forgot about them. Because by this time, 00:33:40.960 --> 00:33:42.640 by at least some accounts, the Legion of 00:33:42.640 --> 00:33:44.720 Doom was dead. Like Frack magazine 00:33:44.720 --> 00:33:46.880 published their obituary on May 28th, 00:33:46.880 --> 00:33:49.440 1990. Quote, "The Legion of Doom will 00:33:49.440 --> 00:33:51.120 long be remembered in the computer 00:33:51.120 --> 00:33:52.720 underground as an innovative and 00:33:52.720 --> 00:33:54.559 pioneering force. No other group 00:33:54.559 --> 00:33:56.480 dedicated to the pursuit of computer and 00:33:56.480 --> 00:33:58.399 telecommunication knowledge has survived 00:33:58.399 --> 00:34:00.799 longer, and none probably will. The 00:34:00.799 --> 00:34:04.640 Legion of Doom from 1984 to 1990." End 00:34:04.640 --> 00:34:06.559 quote. The article ended with a list of 00:34:06.559 --> 00:34:08.560 all the LOD members and when they'd left 00:34:08.560 --> 00:34:10.639 and why they left like it was some kind 00:34:10.639 --> 00:34:12.960 of memorial. The prophet member from 88 00:34:12.960 --> 00:34:15.200 to 89. Reason for leaving bust hacking 00:34:15.200 --> 00:34:18.079 fiber optic 89 to 90 New York reason for 00:34:18.079 --> 00:34:20.399 leaving bust hacking. Which that that's 00:34:20.399 --> 00:34:22.879 not actually true. Mark or fiber optic 00:34:22.879 --> 00:34:25.200 got kicked out. Remember you know whose 00:34:25.200 --> 00:34:27.040 name is not on here is Eric Bloodax 00:34:27.040 --> 00:34:29.599 whose real name is Chris Gogggins or his 00:34:29.599 --> 00:34:31.679 sidekick Scott Chason which is Doc 00:34:31.679 --> 00:34:33.760 Holiday. And it makes me wonder if this 00:34:33.760 --> 00:34:36.560 obituary was some kind of power move or 00:34:36.560 --> 00:34:39.520 a prank. The author was blank. And it's 00:34:39.520 --> 00:34:42.639 very curious because 8 days earlier, LOD 00:34:42.639 --> 00:34:45.280 released an article which said, "We are 00:34:45.280 --> 00:34:48.240 still alive." Lex Luthther wrote it um 00:34:48.240 --> 00:34:50.000 and it says, "If you believe the rumors, 00:34:50.000 --> 00:34:52.079 LOD has been dead many times, but that's 00:34:52.079 --> 00:34:55.280 again untrue." But in reality, due to 00:34:55.280 --> 00:34:58.079 the CFAA being passed and the major 00:34:58.079 --> 00:34:59.839 outage at New York, [music] 00:34:59.839 --> 00:35:01.760 arrests were starting to be made on 00:35:01.760 --> 00:35:05.119 hackers all over. 3 days after that 00:35:05.119 --> 00:35:08.240 major outage at AT&T on January 18th, 00:35:08.240 --> 00:35:11.200 1990, two agents from the US Secret 00:35:11.200 --> 00:35:13.119 Service, a security employee from 00:35:13.119 --> 00:35:14.560 Southwestern Bell and a security guard 00:35:14.560 --> 00:35:16.320 from the University of Missouri, knocked 00:35:16.320 --> 00:35:18.400 on the door of a frat house, and they 00:35:18.400 --> 00:35:20.480 found Craig Najdorf, aka Night 00:35:20.480 --> 00:35:22.000 Lightning, the co-founder of the 00:35:22.000 --> 00:35:24.320 notorious hacker magazine, Frack, and 00:35:24.320 --> 00:35:27.200 accused him of crashing the AT&T phone 00:35:27.200 --> 00:35:29.599 system. They arrested him and took all 00:35:29.599 --> 00:35:31.599 his computers and took him into custody. 00:35:31.599 --> 00:35:33.119 Craig seemed pretty surprised that the 00:35:33.119 --> 00:35:35.359 Secret Service was arresting him. Yeah, 00:35:35.359 --> 00:35:37.040 he could have done it, sure, but he 00:35:37.040 --> 00:35:38.560 swore he didn't, and he would never do 00:35:38.560 --> 00:35:41.040 that. Any fight that Craig had in him, 00:35:41.040 --> 00:35:43.599 though, disappeared when the cops 00:35:43.599 --> 00:35:45.280 confronted him about the document that 00:35:45.280 --> 00:35:49.760 he posted to Frack, the E911 file. In a 00:35:49.760 --> 00:35:52.240 4-hour interrogation, he admitted to 00:35:52.240 --> 00:35:54.400 publishing it, and he agreed to 00:35:54.400 --> 00:35:57.280 cooperate with the investigation. 00:35:57.280 --> 00:35:59.280 And ditto happened for the prophet, the 00:35:59.280 --> 00:36:01.440 guy who originally copied the E911 file 00:36:01.440 --> 00:36:04.000 from Bell South. He also got arrested by 00:36:04.000 --> 00:36:06.400 the police and the Secret Service. And 00:36:06.400 --> 00:36:09.119 they were both charged on seven counts 00:36:09.119 --> 00:36:12.160 relating to stealing and posting this 00:36:12.160 --> 00:36:15.119 E911 file. They even told the parents of 00:36:15.119 --> 00:36:16.800 these guys, "Your son has caused 00:36:16.800 --> 00:36:18.640 billions of dollars worth of damage. 00:36:18.640 --> 00:36:21.359 He's crashed the AT&T network." 00:36:21.359 --> 00:36:24.160 Eventually, almost every LOD member 00:36:24.160 --> 00:36:26.640 either got busted or gave up. Lex 00:36:26.640 --> 00:36:28.560 Luthther announced his retirement. He's 00:36:28.560 --> 00:36:30.480 the one who started LOD. Here's Mark 00:36:30.480 --> 00:36:30.960 again. 00:36:30.960 --> 00:36:32.079 >> There was a lot more government 00:36:32.079 --> 00:36:34.000 involvement in the Hacker Underground in 00:36:34.000 --> 00:36:36.079 general. And because of that fact, two 00:36:36.079 --> 00:36:38.079 things happened. A lot of people who had 00:36:38.079 --> 00:36:40.000 not gotten in trouble yet, didn't want 00:36:40.000 --> 00:36:41.599 to risk anymore. They were already 00:36:41.599 --> 00:36:43.680 older. Particularly the older generation 00:36:43.680 --> 00:36:45.760 of hackers, some guys that I knew who 00:36:45.760 --> 00:36:49.119 started LOD, for example, withdrew from 00:36:49.119 --> 00:36:51.040 uh the hacker underground. uh simply 00:36:51.040 --> 00:36:53.040 didn't want to risk getting in trouble 00:36:53.040 --> 00:36:55.200 anymore now that the the climate had 00:36:55.200 --> 00:36:57.920 changed so much. Other hackers, a few, 00:36:57.920 --> 00:37:01.040 let's say, thought that it might be good 00:37:01.040 --> 00:37:03.920 to go in the other direction and attempt 00:37:03.920 --> 00:37:07.839 to uh gain clout with the government and 00:37:07.839 --> 00:37:09.645 telco security by inviting 00:37:09.645 --> 00:37:12.240 [clears throat] them onto a bulletin 00:37:12.240 --> 00:37:14.240 board that was set up uh under the 00:37:14.240 --> 00:37:17.440 opices of creating a dialogue between 00:37:17.440 --> 00:37:20.400 hackers and security people and uh the 00:37:20.400 --> 00:37:23.280 FBI and secret service. Well, might 00:37:23.280 --> 00:37:24.000 sound [clears throat] a little 00:37:24.000 --> 00:37:26.720 ridiculous to think about, but um the 00:37:26.720 --> 00:37:28.320 FBI thought it was great because it gave 00:37:28.320 --> 00:37:30.320 them a chance to chat with hackers and 00:37:30.320 --> 00:37:32.160 then arrest them. So, while people from 00:37:32.160 --> 00:37:34.160 LOD were being nabbed by the police and 00:37:34.160 --> 00:37:36.400 others were scattering, it looks like 00:37:36.400 --> 00:37:39.680 LOD was dead, but it wasn't entirely. 00:37:39.680 --> 00:37:41.280 There was one person who was trying to 00:37:41.280 --> 00:37:44.720 keep it alive. Eric [music] Bloodax, aka 00:37:44.720 --> 00:37:46.560 Chris Gogggins. Eric Bloodex thought it 00:37:46.560 --> 00:37:48.240 would be a really great idea to try to 00:37:48.240 --> 00:37:50.640 bring back LOD for what it was. In the 00:37:50.640 --> 00:37:52.720 absence of any real leadership in the 00:37:52.720 --> 00:37:54.320 group anymore because anyone who 00:37:54.320 --> 00:37:56.400 mattered anymore had withdrawn, he 00:37:56.400 --> 00:37:58.079 basically appointed himself leader of 00:37:58.079 --> 00:38:00.240 the group and he had ideas to take it in 00:38:00.240 --> 00:38:02.880 a new direction. Bloodax himself was a 00:38:02.880 --> 00:38:05.040 longtime member of LOD and was an 00:38:05.040 --> 00:38:07.440 editor, a frack, too. So he suspected 00:38:07.440 --> 00:38:09.599 the police would come after him, too. 00:38:09.599 --> 00:38:12.320 And they did. On March 1st, 1990, his 00:38:12.320 --> 00:38:14.079 off-campus townhouse at the University 00:38:14.079 --> 00:38:16.320 of Texas was raided at 6:00 in the 00:38:16.320 --> 00:38:17.920 morning, but [music] he was expecting 00:38:17.920 --> 00:38:20.000 them. So, even though there were six 00:38:20.000 --> 00:38:22.560 armed policemen in his bedroom, Blood X 00:38:22.560 --> 00:38:24.560 was pretty calm. In fact, he basically 00:38:24.560 --> 00:38:26.800 staged the place for them, like he left 00:38:26.800 --> 00:38:29.359 out a brochure that he knew they'd see, 00:38:29.359 --> 00:38:31.520 and it said, "How to become a Secret 00:38:31.520 --> 00:38:33.520 Service agent." One of the agents, 00:38:33.520 --> 00:38:35.200 rifling through his stuff, grabbed it 00:38:35.200 --> 00:38:37.200 and asked him about it. Bloodax told him 00:38:37.200 --> 00:38:38.640 that, you know, maybe when all this is 00:38:38.640 --> 00:38:41.040 over, I could help out. He actually had 00:38:41.040 --> 00:38:42.720 been thinking about switching sides for 00:38:42.720 --> 00:38:44.960 a while now, and he picked up the idea 00:38:44.960 --> 00:38:46.960 from a book called Fighting Computer 00:38:46.960 --> 00:38:49.680 Crime, released in 1983. But Blood Axe 00:38:49.680 --> 00:38:51.599 always held on to the belief that there 00:38:51.599 --> 00:38:53.040 shouldn't be any destruction when it 00:38:53.040 --> 00:38:55.200 comes to hacking. So, they didn't find 00:38:55.200 --> 00:38:57.839 much evidence on him committing crimes 00:38:57.839 --> 00:38:59.200 uh other than he was a member of the 00:38:59.200 --> 00:39:01.920 Legion of Doom and they let him go 00:39:01.920 --> 00:39:04.880 without any charges. 00:39:04.880 --> 00:39:06.880 Bloodax tried making a BBS to bring 00:39:06.880 --> 00:39:09.119 together hackers, security teams from 00:39:09.119 --> 00:39:11.760 Telos and police, but it didn't go well 00:39:11.760 --> 00:39:13.920 and it closed up. He then decided to 00:39:13.920 --> 00:39:15.520 start a business to try to advise 00:39:15.520 --> 00:39:17.280 companies about hacking from an office 00:39:17.280 --> 00:39:20.000 in Texas, but he was doing more than 00:39:20.000 --> 00:39:20.480 that. 00:39:20.480 --> 00:39:22.720 >> There was a great amount of disagreement 00:39:22.720 --> 00:39:26.720 and dissension within LOD in the uh late 00:39:26.720 --> 00:39:30.880 1980s because of the fact that there was 00:39:30.880 --> 00:39:33.359 informing going on. Several people, 00:39:33.359 --> 00:39:35.119 several members of the Legion of Doom 00:39:35.119 --> 00:39:37.760 had gotten busted under mysterious, 00:39:37.760 --> 00:39:40.160 let's just say mysterious circumstances. 00:39:40.160 --> 00:39:42.000 People that we knew, people that we were 00:39:42.000 --> 00:39:44.000 affiliated in other countries. For 00:39:44.000 --> 00:39:46.320 example, a hacker group in Australia 00:39:46.320 --> 00:39:49.440 were busted under suspicious uh 00:39:49.440 --> 00:39:53.040 circumstances which all led to uh 00:39:53.040 --> 00:39:55.200 certain individual that we all uh know 00:39:55.200 --> 00:39:58.480 and love in Texas who um had started one 00:39:58.480 --> 00:40:01.280 of the first uh hacker consultancies 00:40:01.280 --> 00:40:05.200 uh under the opices of uh gaining clout 00:40:05.200 --> 00:40:08.480 uh with the FBI and telco security. Uh 00:40:08.480 --> 00:40:10.320 the person I'm referring to is is Eric 00:40:10.320 --> 00:40:12.079 Bloodax in case it wasn't clear to 00:40:12.079 --> 00:40:13.760 anyone in the audience. Bloodax started 00:40:13.760 --> 00:40:15.680 a company called Comse SEC data 00:40:15.680 --> 00:40:16.480 security. 00:40:16.480 --> 00:40:18.960 >> It became known to even other LOD 00:40:18.960 --> 00:40:20.800 members who were wondering if I had 00:40:20.800 --> 00:40:22.880 heard anything about Eric Bloodax 00:40:22.880 --> 00:40:24.560 because so they were concerned for their 00:40:24.560 --> 00:40:26.480 own safety when they heard about what 00:40:26.480 --> 00:40:28.160 happened with some hackers in Australia 00:40:28.160 --> 00:40:30.240 and others and suspected that he was 00:40:30.240 --> 00:40:32.079 involved. But he was trying to gain 00:40:32.079 --> 00:40:34.320 clout with the government to bolster his 00:40:34.320 --> 00:40:36.640 business and in doing so was turning in 00:40:36.640 --> 00:40:39.200 hackers. When hackers found out he was 00:40:39.200 --> 00:40:41.040 doing this, they began harassing him and 00:40:41.040 --> 00:40:43.599 his business and so on, which is, you 00:40:43.599 --> 00:40:45.359 know, what hackers do in general. And 00:40:45.359 --> 00:40:46.800 certainly someone who's informing on 00:40:46.800 --> 00:40:48.880 other hackers is is going to earn the 00:40:48.880 --> 00:40:51.280 wrath of of other hackers. From the City 00:40:51.280 --> 00:40:53.599 Corp atrium, everyone who could would 00:40:53.599 --> 00:40:55.520 pick up a pay phone and start calling 00:40:55.520 --> 00:40:57.920 the Comsac phone number. It was a denial 00:40:57.920 --> 00:40:59.680 of service attack, if you will, which 00:40:59.680 --> 00:41:01.200 tied up the phone lines and made it so 00:41:01.200 --> 00:41:03.119 nobody could ever get through to Commac. 00:41:03.119 --> 00:41:05.119 And that would last all day until people 00:41:05.119 --> 00:41:06.480 got bored and had to go eat dinner at 00:41:06.480 --> 00:41:10.160 like 8:30 or so. A legendary hacker feud 00:41:10.160 --> 00:41:14.319 was starting to stir up. LOD versus MOD. 00:41:14.319 --> 00:41:17.040 But Eric Bloodax from LOD could handle 00:41:17.040 --> 00:41:18.880 all these prank phone calls. This wasn't 00:41:18.880 --> 00:41:21.680 a big deal to him, so no shots fired 00:41:21.680 --> 00:41:24.960 back yet. LOD would sometimes host 00:41:24.960 --> 00:41:26.560 conference [music] calls to chat about 00:41:26.560 --> 00:41:28.800 what was happening. John Lee, aka 00:41:28.800 --> 00:41:31.119 Corrupt, a member of MOD, would hear 00:41:31.119 --> 00:41:32.800 about these calls and join in. And one 00:41:32.800 --> 00:41:34.240 day he jumped on the call and introduced 00:41:34.240 --> 00:41:37.119 himself as Dope Fiend from MOD. And 00:41:37.119 --> 00:41:39.440 someone shouted, "Get that nword off the 00:41:39.440 --> 00:41:42.480 line." John Lee was black and took 00:41:42.480 --> 00:41:44.480 offense to this. [music] Bloodax would 00:41:44.480 --> 00:41:45.920 always deny that he was the one who said 00:41:45.920 --> 00:41:48.560 it, but we called John and John knows 00:41:48.560 --> 00:41:51.040 what he knows. John Lee and his buddy 00:41:51.040 --> 00:41:54.400 Julio joined more of these LOD bridges. 00:41:54.400 --> 00:41:56.240 But they listened in silently after that 00:41:56.240 --> 00:41:57.760 without introducing themselves [music] 00:41:57.760 --> 00:42:00.000 and they heard it again. The slurs that 00:42:00.000 --> 00:42:01.779 the Texan hackers would use to refer 00:42:01.779 --> 00:42:03.920 [music] to them, these definitely were 00:42:03.920 --> 00:42:06.480 not slips of the tongue. So John Lee 00:42:06.480 --> 00:42:09.280 decided to make Blood Ax's life hell. He 00:42:09.280 --> 00:42:12.079 and Julio prank called him incessantly, 00:42:12.079 --> 00:42:14.160 taunting him, dialing again and again, 00:42:14.160 --> 00:42:16.400 over and over, and just hanging up. But 00:42:16.400 --> 00:42:18.400 still, Blood Axe kept his cool and 00:42:18.400 --> 00:42:20.319 didn't do anything back. Remember 00:42:20.319 --> 00:42:21.680 earlier in this episode, I told you 00:42:21.680 --> 00:42:24.160 about a super secret file on LOD's Fifth 00:42:24.160 --> 00:42:26.400 Amendment BBS? It allowed anyone to hack 00:42:26.400 --> 00:42:28.240 into the PBX system developed by the 00:42:28.240 --> 00:42:31.040 company called Rome and even LOD members 00:42:31.040 --> 00:42:33.040 were explicitly instructed to never copy 00:42:33.040 --> 00:42:35.520 it. Well, John Lee got into the fifth 00:42:35.520 --> 00:42:37.839 amendment and he stole the file and he 00:42:37.839 --> 00:42:39.599 spread it to other BBS's around the 00:42:39.599 --> 00:42:43.119 country just [music] despite LOD 00:42:43.119 --> 00:42:45.599 and now blood got bad that John took 00:42:45.599 --> 00:42:47.680 this file and [music] spread it. So in 00:42:47.680 --> 00:42:50.160 return he took a copy of the history of 00:42:50.160 --> 00:42:52.720 mod a file written by Eli describing the 00:42:52.720 --> 00:42:54.560 group and how it came together and ran 00:42:54.560 --> 00:42:56.240 it through a program that converted it 00:42:56.240 --> 00:42:59.119 to jive language like a comically racist 00:42:59.119 --> 00:43:01.200 impression of the original text which he 00:43:01.200 --> 00:43:03.280 then published to the world and 00:43:03.280 --> 00:43:05.599 everybody knew who he was trying to 00:43:05.599 --> 00:43:08.400 annoy. There was only one black hacker 00:43:08.400 --> 00:43:10.400 in mod. 00:43:10.400 --> 00:43:12.640 John Lee then took a shot at Blood Ax's 00:43:12.640 --> 00:43:15.359 sidekick Scott Chason by publishing his 00:43:15.359 --> 00:43:17.920 mom's credit history, phone number, and 00:43:17.920 --> 00:43:20.880 home address on a popular BBS. And as a 00:43:20.880 --> 00:43:22.800 bonus, he even included some sexual 00:43:22.800 --> 00:43:25.839 commentary about her. Then Eric Bloodax 00:43:25.839 --> 00:43:28.400 got a password to MOD's BBS from a guy 00:43:28.400 --> 00:43:30.480 who really didn't like John. And the 00:43:30.480 --> 00:43:33.440 spat just kept going up and up, and John 00:43:33.440 --> 00:43:36.400 Lee wanted to take it a step up. In the 00:43:36.400 --> 00:43:38.800 summer of 1991, from his humid, air 00:43:38.800 --> 00:43:40.720 conditionless apartment in Brooklyn, he 00:43:40.720 --> 00:43:42.880 wanted to mess with Blood Axe even more 00:43:42.880 --> 00:43:45.280 by tapping his phone. He wanted to get 00:43:45.280 --> 00:43:48.400 in Blood Ax's head. First, he broke into 00:43:48.400 --> 00:43:50.079 Southwestern Bell casually, like he's 00:43:50.079 --> 00:43:52.319 done a thousand times before. Then, he 00:43:52.319 --> 00:43:53.920 connected to a switch that controlled 00:43:53.920 --> 00:43:56.480 Comac's phone line, which is Blood Ax's 00:43:56.480 --> 00:43:59.040 official line. Using computer commands, 00:43:59.040 --> 00:44:01.119 he asked the switch if the line was 00:44:01.119 --> 00:44:03.760 currently in use, and it was. So he 00:44:03.760 --> 00:44:06.560 tapped into the call and spied on what 00:44:06.560 --> 00:44:09.359 they were discussing at Comsack. What he 00:44:09.359 --> 00:44:11.680 heard was a call where Eric Bloodax was 00:44:11.680 --> 00:44:13.520 talking to Craig Najdorf aka Night 00:44:13.520 --> 00:44:15.760 Lightning aka the co-founder of Frack 00:44:15.760 --> 00:44:18.079 magazine. At the time Craig was as 00:44:18.079 --> 00:44:20.319 famous as any hacker in the world was 00:44:20.319 --> 00:44:21.920 the kind of guy Bloodax was probably 00:44:21.920 --> 00:44:24.240 wanting to impress. Craig was calling 00:44:24.240 --> 00:44:26.400 Compsack for help. He was getting 00:44:26.400 --> 00:44:28.079 harassed with constant phone calls 00:44:28.079 --> 00:44:30.960 lately and he was fed up. Bloodax felt 00:44:30.960 --> 00:44:32.640 his pain. He'd been dealing with the 00:44:32.640 --> 00:44:35.040 same problem. He's like, "You know who 00:44:35.040 --> 00:44:38.079 Corrupt is, aka John Lee?" "Yeah, well, 00:44:38.079 --> 00:44:41.280 it sounds like something he would do." A 00:44:41.280 --> 00:44:43.680 minute later, Blood Axe got a call on 00:44:43.680 --> 00:44:46.160 another line and he told Craig, "Hang on 00:44:46.160 --> 00:44:49.440 just one minute." Hello. Yeah, that does 00:44:49.440 --> 00:44:50.880 sound like something I would do. [music] 00:44:50.880 --> 00:44:54.640 Click. That was badass. Eric Bloodax 00:44:54.640 --> 00:44:56.960 knew exactly what just happened. John 00:44:56.960 --> 00:45:00.480 Lee was listening in on that call. Now, 00:45:00.480 --> 00:45:02.240 Blood Axe had to go back to the most 00:45:02.240 --> 00:45:04.400 famous hacker in the country who needed 00:45:04.400 --> 00:45:06.079 help dealing with an attack on his phone 00:45:06.079 --> 00:45:08.079 line and admit that the very call that 00:45:08.079 --> 00:45:10.880 they were having was under attack. And 00:45:10.880 --> 00:45:13.359 John Lee listened to him admit it. Eric 00:45:13.359 --> 00:45:16.400 Bloodax realized this is no way to run a 00:45:16.400 --> 00:45:18.640 security company. He had to do something 00:45:18.640 --> 00:45:20.960 not just about John Lee, but about Mark. 00:45:20.960 --> 00:45:23.440 He knew Mark was the puppet master. Take 00:45:23.440 --> 00:45:25.680 out [music] Mark and everyone at MOD 00:45:25.680 --> 00:45:27.920 would scatter. The whole MOD needed to 00:45:27.920 --> 00:45:30.400 go. And this is where the legendary 00:45:30.400 --> 00:45:34.160 hacker war began between MOD and LOD. 00:45:34.160 --> 00:45:37.520 Eric Blood Axe wanted to take out Mark 00:45:37.520 --> 00:45:39.920 and John Lee wanted to annoy the hell 00:45:39.920 --> 00:45:42.800 out of Blood Axe. Here's Mark again. So 00:45:42.800 --> 00:45:44.640 he decided that I was responsible for 00:45:44.640 --> 00:45:46.800 this based on some previous uh 00:45:46.800 --> 00:45:49.520 disagreements we had had and uh decided 00:45:49.520 --> 00:45:52.319 that he was going to inform on me and 00:45:52.319 --> 00:45:54.560 various of my friends here in New York 00:45:54.560 --> 00:45:56.480 by giving information to the FBI about 00:45:56.480 --> 00:45:58.160 us and so on and so forth. 00:45:58.160 --> 00:45:59.839 >> Remember I told you about Tom and Fred, 00:45:59.839 --> 00:46:01.359 the security engineers at the New York 00:46:01.359 --> 00:46:02.800 Telephone Company? Well, they figured 00:46:02.800 --> 00:46:04.079 out the people hacking into their 00:46:04.079 --> 00:46:06.960 network were John and Julio from MOD. 00:46:06.960 --> 00:46:08.400 With months and months of records 00:46:08.400 --> 00:46:10.000 documenting, following every single time 00:46:10.000 --> 00:46:11.280 that they did it, there was enough 00:46:11.280 --> 00:46:13.119 evidence to send to the police. But the 00:46:13.119 --> 00:46:14.560 police needed to verify the evidence 00:46:14.560 --> 00:46:16.319 themselves. So, a judge looked over the 00:46:16.319 --> 00:46:18.160 paper trail and decided to approve a 00:46:18.160 --> 00:46:20.960 wire tap for both John and Julio. And 00:46:20.960 --> 00:46:23.040 not just wiretaps. For the first time, 00:46:23.040 --> 00:46:24.960 US authorities were granted the ability 00:46:24.960 --> 00:46:27.680 to tap computer communications, too. 00:46:27.680 --> 00:46:29.520 Data taps, they called it. And I guess 00:46:29.520 --> 00:46:30.880 the term we might use today is 00:46:30.880 --> 00:46:33.440 man-in-the-middle or even spyware. In a 00:46:33.440 --> 00:46:35.520 suite of borrowed offices in Manhattan's 00:46:35.520 --> 00:46:37.839 World Trade Center, the Secret Service 00:46:37.839 --> 00:46:40.319 set up a war room. Well, a wire room is 00:46:40.319 --> 00:46:41.440 actually what they called [music] it. 00:46:41.440 --> 00:46:44.079 And it was overseen by the FBI, filled 00:46:44.079 --> 00:46:46.052 with computers, storage tapes, disc 00:46:46.052 --> 00:46:48.000 [music] drives, and cables in every 00:46:48.000 --> 00:46:50.240 direction. A system specifically 00:46:50.240 --> 00:46:53.680 designed for one occasion to track these 00:46:53.680 --> 00:46:56.400 teenage hackers on their computers. 00:46:56.400 --> 00:46:59.599 staffed by two dozen trained agents of 00:46:59.599 --> 00:47:01.920 the US government working in 12-hour 00:47:01.920 --> 00:47:03.920 shifts tapping the lines of these 00:47:03.920 --> 00:47:05.760 teenagers recording all of their 00:47:05.760 --> 00:47:07.839 internet behavior. And back then, 00:47:07.839 --> 00:47:09.680 nothing was encrypted. So all their 00:47:09.680 --> 00:47:11.040 passwords and commands and everything 00:47:11.040 --> 00:47:13.040 that they were doing could easily be 00:47:13.040 --> 00:47:16.000 seen by the FBI, listening and watching 00:47:16.000 --> 00:47:18.400 everything these kids did with the same 00:47:18.400 --> 00:47:20.560 intensity of like a Soviet nuclear 00:47:20.560 --> 00:47:22.640 launch. [music] Meanwhile, the Secret 00:47:22.640 --> 00:47:25.119 Service made a deal with Eric Bloodax. 00:47:25.119 --> 00:47:27.839 Anytime CO Comse got a call from MOD, he 00:47:27.839 --> 00:47:29.040 would [music] walk down the street to a 00:47:29.040 --> 00:47:31.280 specific pay phone and inform his FBI 00:47:31.280 --> 00:47:33.359 and Secret Service handler, never using 00:47:33.359 --> 00:47:35.599 the agent's real name just in case mod 00:47:35.599 --> 00:47:37.200 was listening there, too. The 00:47:37.200 --> 00:47:38.960 investigation into the Masters of 00:47:38.960 --> 00:47:41.920 Deception [music] took one year. In June 00:47:41.920 --> 00:47:43.440 1992, 00:47:43.440 --> 00:47:46.640 Mark, John, Julio, Eli, and Paul each 00:47:46.640 --> 00:47:48.277 received an envelope in the mail. 00:47:48.277 --> 00:47:50.160 [music] letter informed them that they 00:47:50.160 --> 00:47:52.000 were the subject of a grand jury 00:47:52.000 --> 00:47:54.160 investigation, which means they are 00:47:54.160 --> 00:47:56.560 suspects in a crime. And soon after 00:47:56.560 --> 00:47:58.960 that, they were all arrested and 00:47:58.960 --> 00:48:01.378 formerly charged with violating, yep, 00:48:01.378 --> 00:48:04.400 [music] you guessed it, the CFAA. 00:48:04.400 --> 00:48:06.319 I'll let Mark tell it from here. 00:48:06.319 --> 00:48:09.280 >> As things fell apart, EFF was uh was 00:48:09.280 --> 00:48:11.359 supporting us to go to trial. 00:48:11.359 --> 00:48:13.040 >> Wait, the EFF? Yeah, sorry. All right, I 00:48:13.040 --> 00:48:14.800 hate to interrupt here, but I know the 00:48:14.800 --> 00:48:16.480 story has been like gone in seven 00:48:16.480 --> 00:48:17.839 different directions and things are 00:48:17.839 --> 00:48:19.920 mashed together all over, but this is 00:48:19.920 --> 00:48:21.680 something I think I need to talk about. 00:48:21.680 --> 00:48:24.160 When John Perry Barlo clashed with Mark 00:48:24.160 --> 00:48:26.480 and he got spooked, remember he dropped 00:48:26.480 --> 00:48:28.559 his credit report in the chat. Spooked 00:48:28.559 --> 00:48:30.079 more than he's ever been before. But he 00:48:30.079 --> 00:48:32.559 also realized, petty arguments aside, 00:48:32.559 --> 00:48:34.160 something much greater is happening in 00:48:34.160 --> 00:48:36.000 the country right now. And these kids 00:48:36.000 --> 00:48:38.079 were bearing the brunt of it. After 00:48:38.079 --> 00:48:39.839 their argument, John Perry Barlo asked 00:48:39.839 --> 00:48:41.920 Mark, "Give me a call." And rumor has it 00:48:41.920 --> 00:48:43.280 that he didn't even give Mark his number 00:48:43.280 --> 00:48:44.640 because he felt that would be an insult 00:48:44.640 --> 00:48:46.800 to such a powerful freaker. But soon his 00:48:46.800 --> 00:48:48.400 phone rang and of course it was Mark. 00:48:48.400 --> 00:48:50.000 And later John actually wrote about this 00:48:50.000 --> 00:48:52.240 call. He said, "In this conversation and 00:48:52.240 --> 00:48:54.160 the others that followed, I encountered 00:48:54.160 --> 00:48:55.680 an intelligent, civilized, and 00:48:55.680 --> 00:48:58.240 surprisingly principled kid of 18 who 00:48:58.240 --> 00:49:00.319 sounded and continues to sound as if 00:49:00.319 --> 00:49:02.400 there's little harm in him to man or 00:49:02.400 --> 00:49:04.559 data. His cracking impulses seemed 00:49:04.559 --> 00:49:07.040 purely exploratory. And I've begun to 00:49:07.040 --> 00:49:08.720 wonder if we wouldn't also regard 00:49:08.720 --> 00:49:11.280 spelunkers as desperate criminals if 00:49:11.280 --> 00:49:14.160 AT&T owned all the caves. It's such a 00:49:14.160 --> 00:49:16.480 great analogy. John Perry Barlo wondered 00:49:16.480 --> 00:49:18.079 whether what Mark and his annoying 00:49:18.079 --> 00:49:20.400 friends were doing was really as bad as 00:49:20.400 --> 00:49:22.319 the police would have him believe. Is 00:49:22.319 --> 00:49:24.480 transmission through an otherwise unused 00:49:24.480 --> 00:49:27.359 data channel really theft? He asked 00:49:27.359 --> 00:49:29.520 himself this question. Or put another 00:49:29.520 --> 00:49:31.359 way, is there a difference between 00:49:31.359 --> 00:49:34.400 exploring and exploiting? 00:49:34.400 --> 00:49:36.559 If you break in just to look around and 00:49:36.559 --> 00:49:38.720 cause no damage, 00:49:38.720 --> 00:49:41.280 maybe you're just exploring. In the 00:49:41.280 --> 00:49:43.440 months that followed, John Perry Barlo 00:49:43.440 --> 00:49:45.680 kept an eye out as Secret Service agents 00:49:45.680 --> 00:49:47.440 were busting in through hackers doors 00:49:47.440 --> 00:49:49.359 across the country, including Mark and 00:49:49.359 --> 00:49:51.839 Eli's houses, carrying guns, taking all 00:49:51.839 --> 00:49:53.520 of the things and cordoning off their 00:49:53.520 --> 00:49:55.920 family members. This was all part of 00:49:55.920 --> 00:49:58.559 what the Secret Service called Operation 00:49:58.559 --> 00:50:01.520 Sunundevil, which resulted in 27 00:50:01.520 --> 00:50:04.079 warrants for hackers spread across 14 00:50:04.079 --> 00:50:06.480 cities. It was a massive crackdown 00:50:06.480 --> 00:50:09.440 nationwide on hackers. It was very 00:50:09.440 --> 00:50:11.359 serious and very scary. 00:50:11.359 --> 00:50:12.800 >> Search warrants are going out here in 00:50:12.800 --> 00:50:14.559 Chicago and a dozen other cities coast 00:50:14.559 --> 00:50:16.800 to coast in an effort to stop computer 00:50:16.800 --> 00:50:19.200 fraud that is costing companies and 00:50:19.200 --> 00:50:21.839 consumers millions of dollars. As 00:50:21.839 --> 00:50:23.599 Elizabeth Vargas reports, authorities 00:50:23.599 --> 00:50:25.680 have already seized computer equipment 00:50:25.680 --> 00:50:28.960 and thousands of computer records. 00:50:28.960 --> 00:50:30.960 >> They say it is the white collar crime of 00:50:30.960 --> 00:50:33.599 the '9s. Raids in Chicago and a dozen 00:50:33.599 --> 00:50:35.520 other cities this week exposed a 00:50:35.520 --> 00:50:37.599 million-doll ring of high-tech computer 00:50:37.599 --> 00:50:38.400 hackers. 00:50:38.400 --> 00:50:40.480 >> It is not a game. Uh they're attempting 00:50:40.480 --> 00:50:42.559 and are getting into credit cards. 00:50:42.559 --> 00:50:43.839 They're getting into [music] 00:50:43.839 --> 00:50:46.480 telephone systems. They're getting into 00:50:46.480 --> 00:50:48.400 medical records, credit records. They're 00:50:48.400 --> 00:50:50.720 getting into everything. The raids come 00:50:50.720 --> 00:50:52.720 after a 2-year nationwide investigation 00:50:52.720 --> 00:50:54.720 called Operation Sunundevil. 00:50:54.720 --> 00:50:56.319 >> Like even the guy who reported the 00:50:56.319 --> 00:50:58.720 prophet for stealing the E911 file and 00:50:58.720 --> 00:51:00.960 stashing on his computer, he even got 00:51:00.960 --> 00:51:02.480 raided. He's like, "Man, I'm the one who 00:51:02.480 --> 00:51:04.000 found it. I'm the one who turned it in 00:51:04.000 --> 00:51:05.760 and I'm also suffering." [music] That 00:51:05.760 --> 00:51:08.000 guy was cooked. John Perry Barlo saw 00:51:08.000 --> 00:51:10.000 that the government was overstepping and 00:51:10.000 --> 00:51:12.559 using the CFAA to justify arresting 00:51:12.559 --> 00:51:15.280 dozens of people for being curious. 00:51:15.280 --> 00:51:18.240 Everyone in MOD was accused of violating 00:51:18.240 --> 00:51:20.559 the CFAA. Members of LOD were arrested 00:51:20.559 --> 00:51:22.160 for it and so many other innocent 00:51:22.160 --> 00:51:24.720 bystanders. So John Perry Barlo was 00:51:24.720 --> 00:51:26.160 seeing all these people getting scooped 00:51:26.160 --> 00:51:27.920 up left and right. And he thought 00:51:27.920 --> 00:51:29.440 someone needs to do something about 00:51:29.440 --> 00:51:32.319 this. And he met with Mitch Kapor. Um 00:51:32.319 --> 00:51:34.720 this guy was on the well too. And Kapor 00:51:34.720 --> 00:51:36.400 was known for inventing the spreadsheet 00:51:36.400 --> 00:51:38.400 program called Lotus 123. They both 00:51:38.400 --> 00:51:40.240 lived in San Francisco which is where 00:51:40.240 --> 00:51:42.240 the well was hosted too. And together 00:51:42.240 --> 00:51:44.079 the two of them got together and said, 00:51:44.079 --> 00:51:46.079 "Let's do something here." And they 00:51:46.079 --> 00:51:48.640 started the EFF, the Electronic Frontier 00:51:48.640 --> 00:51:50.800 Foundation. They wanted to fund 00:51:50.800 --> 00:51:52.960 education, lobby for digital rights, and 00:51:52.960 --> 00:51:54.640 help with the legal cases related to 00:51:54.640 --> 00:51:57.280 constitutional rights in cyerspace. They 00:51:57.280 --> 00:51:58.960 were worried that law enforcement and 00:51:58.960 --> 00:52:01.280 lawmakers didn't understand the digital 00:52:01.280 --> 00:52:03.359 world that they were trying to regulate 00:52:03.359 --> 00:52:05.200 and that ignorance was turning curiosity 00:52:05.200 --> 00:52:06.640 into crime. And I want to remind you 00:52:06.640 --> 00:52:08.480 that John Perry Barlo was the guy who 00:52:08.480 --> 00:52:10.480 wrote the Declaration of Independence of 00:52:10.480 --> 00:52:12.901 Cyberspace. He loved the internet. 00:52:12.901 --> 00:52:14.559 [music] And so together they had dinner 00:52:14.559 --> 00:52:16.880 with big names in tech like Stuart Brand 00:52:16.880 --> 00:52:20.079 and Steve Wnjak to go over the ideas of 00:52:20.079 --> 00:52:23.119 what the EFF was. And Steve was so into 00:52:23.119 --> 00:52:24.880 it that he pitched in some of his own 00:52:24.880 --> 00:52:27.040 money to get things started. And it was 00:52:27.040 --> 00:52:29.280 settled. The EFF was born. And its 00:52:29.280 --> 00:52:31.680 online home at the time was the well. 00:52:31.680 --> 00:52:34.160 And the EFF is still going strong today. 00:52:34.160 --> 00:52:36.480 It is a leading voice for advocating for 00:52:36.480 --> 00:52:39.040 digital rights in the United States. And 00:52:39.040 --> 00:52:40.800 the thing was almost all of those 00:52:40.800 --> 00:52:43.760 arrests were resulting in nothing. The 00:52:43.760 --> 00:52:45.520 police were raiding offices and homes 00:52:45.520 --> 00:52:48.160 and taking computers but finding no 00:52:48.160 --> 00:52:50.720 evidence of computer crimes at all and 00:52:50.720 --> 00:52:53.200 letting people go without any charges. 00:52:53.200 --> 00:52:55.200 Like the most comical of all these raids 00:52:55.200 --> 00:52:57.359 was on Steve Jackson Games. So this was 00:52:57.359 --> 00:53:00.000 a game studio that made board games like 00:53:00.000 --> 00:53:02.000 roll the dice role playing type board 00:53:02.000 --> 00:53:04.000 games, right? And one of the Legion of 00:53:04.000 --> 00:53:05.680 Doom members worked there. In fact, you 00:53:05.680 --> 00:53:07.200 heard his voice at the very beginning of 00:53:07.200 --> 00:53:08.640 the last episode. The guy who wrote the 00:53:08.640 --> 00:53:12.240 hacker manifesto, Lloyd Blankenship. 00:53:12.240 --> 00:53:14.480 The Secret Service was sure that Lloyd 00:53:14.480 --> 00:53:16.720 hacked into Bell South, stole some 00:53:16.720 --> 00:53:18.960 stuff, and was using it at work. The 00:53:18.960 --> 00:53:21.680 proof that the Secret Service had, the 00:53:21.680 --> 00:53:24.800 role playing game that Lloyd was making 00:53:24.800 --> 00:53:27.920 was a cyberpunk game which had a hacker 00:53:27.920 --> 00:53:31.040 campaign in it. They thought this was an 00:53:31.040 --> 00:53:33.440 instruction manual for hackers. So they 00:53:33.440 --> 00:53:35.760 raided the entirety of Steve Jackson 00:53:35.760 --> 00:53:39.200 games, seized computers, seized emails, 00:53:39.200 --> 00:53:40.960 arrested people, took notebooks, took 00:53:40.960 --> 00:53:43.200 everything. But Steve Jackson himself 00:53:43.200 --> 00:53:45.839 was like, "Wo, that is not a hacker 00:53:45.839 --> 00:53:49.040 manual. It's a work of fiction. We just 00:53:49.040 --> 00:53:52.079 made that story up." And this was one of 00:53:52.079 --> 00:53:54.559 the first cases that the EFF took on to 00:53:54.559 --> 00:53:56.480 help out, claiming the Secret Service 00:53:56.480 --> 00:53:59.839 was totally overreaching with the CFAA, 00:53:59.839 --> 00:54:01.760 and it's just way too broad of a law. 00:54:01.760 --> 00:54:03.839 this is the dumbest law ever. And so 00:54:03.839 --> 00:54:05.359 that case got dropped when they found 00:54:05.359 --> 00:54:09.119 absolutely no evidence of a crime, which 00:54:09.119 --> 00:54:11.920 was a huge win for the EFF. In fact, it 00:54:11.920 --> 00:54:13.599 got dropped so hard that the court 00:54:13.599 --> 00:54:15.599 criticized the Secret Service for such a 00:54:15.599 --> 00:54:18.000 sloppy understanding of crimes that they 00:54:18.000 --> 00:54:20.720 were chasing. And then Mark aka Fiber 00:54:20.720 --> 00:54:22.720 Optic was another one of EFF's first 00:54:22.720 --> 00:54:23.359 cases. 00:54:23.359 --> 00:54:25.440 >> They felt that we were not guilty of 00:54:25.440 --> 00:54:27.520 what the US attorneys were saying we 00:54:27.520 --> 00:54:29.920 did. There was even at least one attempt 00:54:29.920 --> 00:54:32.160 by one of the complainants in the case 00:54:32.160 --> 00:54:35.040 uh British Telecom Timenet wanting to 00:54:35.040 --> 00:54:38.000 actually interview us which if we were 00:54:38.000 --> 00:54:40.079 given the opportunity would have shown 00:54:40.079 --> 00:54:42.800 cooperation and would have given us the 00:54:42.800 --> 00:54:44.480 opportunity to tell them exactly what we 00:54:44.480 --> 00:54:46.319 did. We would have met the engineers 00:54:46.319 --> 00:54:47.920 that built the network. They were 00:54:47.920 --> 00:54:49.200 interested how we defeated their 00:54:49.200 --> 00:54:51.680 security. Sounds like a movie. But 00:54:51.680 --> 00:54:53.839 unfortunately the US Attorney's Office 00:54:53.839 --> 00:54:56.480 did not allow them to do this. So we 00:54:56.480 --> 00:54:58.000 were never given the opportunity to 00:54:58.000 --> 00:54:59.839 clear our name. So we were basically 00:54:59.839 --> 00:55:02.559 treated like criminals and due to that 00:55:02.559 --> 00:55:05.440 fact one by one my friends the guys that 00:55:05.440 --> 00:55:07.599 were uh named in the indictment decided 00:55:07.599 --> 00:55:10.400 to plead guilty until uh I was the only 00:55:10.400 --> 00:55:12.079 one remaining and it's you know the 00:55:12.079 --> 00:55:14.480 typical cliche of the last guy standing 00:55:14.480 --> 00:55:16.240 without a chair when the music stops. 00:55:16.240 --> 00:55:18.480 >> The judge even said a message must be 00:55:18.480 --> 00:55:21.280 sent. So that was Mark. And then there 00:55:21.280 --> 00:55:23.839 was Eli aka Acid Freak, one of the 00:55:23.839 --> 00:55:26.559 members of MOD, who also got arrested. 00:55:26.559 --> 00:55:28.319 Eli was thrown into prison for a 00:55:28.319 --> 00:55:30.720 relatively minor offense. Some of the 00:55:30.720 --> 00:55:32.400 members of his crew broke into the 00:55:32.400 --> 00:55:34.559 computers that list everybody's credit 00:55:34.559 --> 00:55:36.000 ratings, [music] you know, and they 00:55:36.000 --> 00:55:38.720 copied some credit reports and they sold 00:55:38.720 --> 00:55:41.599 the information to other people. And he 00:55:41.599 --> 00:55:43.280 was named [music] as a member of this 00:55:43.280 --> 00:55:46.160 conspiracy. 00:55:46.160 --> 00:55:47.920 They said we missed, you know, we abused 00:55:47.920 --> 00:55:50.640 our power, but [music] we didn't abuse 00:55:50.640 --> 00:55:53.119 it at all. We did nothing compared to 00:55:53.119 --> 00:55:54.640 the things that could have been done. 00:55:54.640 --> 00:55:56.079 You know, [music] what we did was such a 00:55:56.079 --> 00:55:58.640 small thing and such a larger scheme of 00:55:58.640 --> 00:56:00.400 things, you know. It's kind of 00:56:00.400 --> 00:56:02.319 depressing in a way. I mean, there's so 00:56:02.319 --> 00:56:03.440 many things we could have done. We could 00:56:03.440 --> 00:56:05.920 have monitored uh you know [music] Peter 00:56:05.920 --> 00:56:08.160 Lynch you know and what's the next best 00:56:08.160 --> 00:56:10.319 investment for the day you know and and 00:56:10.319 --> 00:56:12.400 we'd make millions of dollars you know 00:56:12.400 --> 00:56:14.640 investing or shorting [music] some stock 00:56:14.640 --> 00:56:18.480 but uh we never did and you know 00:56:18.480 --> 00:56:20.559 now we wonder why [laughter] 00:56:20.559 --> 00:56:22.559 we're like damn 00:56:22.559 --> 00:56:23.839 there's so many applications for [music] 00:56:23.839 --> 00:56:26.160 this kind of stuff what happened but 00:56:26.160 --> 00:56:27.680 then we're like ah you know we were just 00:56:27.680 --> 00:56:32.079 kids 00:56:32.079 --> 00:56:34.720 >> mod co-founders Paul and Eli each got 00:56:34.720 --> 00:56:37.359 half a year in [music] jail. Mark got a 00:56:37.359 --> 00:56:39.280 whole year in jail, and John Lee got a 00:56:39.280 --> 00:56:41.839 year in jail, too. Julio, who did all of 00:56:41.839 --> 00:56:43.839 Jon's crimes along with him, got off 00:56:43.839 --> 00:56:45.280 free, which is probably because he 00:56:45.280 --> 00:56:47.760 cooperated with the police. A few LOD 00:56:47.760 --> 00:56:49.314 members, Adam and the Prophet, faced 00:56:49.314 --> 00:56:52.240 [music] up to $2 million in fines and 40 00:56:52.240 --> 00:56:54.319 years in prison, which would have been 00:56:54.319 --> 00:56:56.240 ridiculous. But in the end, [music] Adam 00:56:56.240 --> 00:56:58.559 got sentenced to 14 months and the 00:56:58.559 --> 00:57:01.040 prophet got 21 months in prison. And 00:57:01.040 --> 00:57:02.720 then there was Craig's [music] case, aka 00:57:02.720 --> 00:57:04.480 Night Lightning, the co-founder of 00:57:04.480 --> 00:57:07.119 Frack. He was in trouble for publishing 00:57:07.119 --> 00:57:10.240 the E911 file. [music] He was also one 00:57:10.240 --> 00:57:13.200 of the first cases that the EFF took on. 00:57:13.200 --> 00:57:14.480 And if you think about it, this is a 00:57:14.480 --> 00:57:16.160 federal case, so they couldn't charge 00:57:16.160 --> 00:57:17.839 him with just [music] publishing the 00:57:17.839 --> 00:57:19.839 article because that would just go 00:57:19.839 --> 00:57:22.000 completely against the First Amendment. 00:57:22.000 --> 00:57:24.319 So instead, they were charging him with 00:57:24.319 --> 00:57:26.319 theft [music] and wire fraud and 00:57:26.319 --> 00:57:28.400 interstate transportation of stolen 00:57:28.400 --> 00:57:31.119 property. Bell South was saying that the 00:57:31.119 --> 00:57:34.160 E911 file was worth $79,000 and 00:57:34.160 --> 00:57:36.559 contained highly sensitive information. 00:57:36.559 --> 00:57:37.839 Prophet was charged with the [music] 00:57:37.839 --> 00:57:39.760 same stuff and he just admitted guilt. 00:57:39.760 --> 00:57:42.640 But Craig, no, no, no. Craig was like, I 00:57:42.640 --> 00:57:44.720 am not guilty. [music] And so a trial 00:57:44.720 --> 00:57:47.359 began. And the trial was absolutely 00:57:47.359 --> 00:57:49.839 ridiculous. For one, they wouldn't show 00:57:49.839 --> 00:57:52.799 the E911 file to the jury or put it in 00:57:52.799 --> 00:57:54.400 evidence for fear that it would become 00:57:54.400 --> 00:57:56.240 public record and then anyone could see 00:57:56.240 --> 00:57:59.040 it. Two, Bell Cells claimed it cost the 00:57:59.040 --> 00:58:00.960 company a ridiculous amount of damage, 00:58:00.960 --> 00:58:02.480 but they couldn't produce a shred of 00:58:02.480 --> 00:58:04.319 evidence to show where they got that 00:58:04.319 --> 00:58:06.799 number. The prosecutors wanted to put 00:58:06.799 --> 00:58:09.200 Craig in prison for 30 years and find 00:58:09.200 --> 00:58:12.400 him $122,000 for publishing this file in 00:58:12.400 --> 00:58:14.960 Frack. But as the trial went on, they 00:58:14.960 --> 00:58:17.839 learned that the E911 file didn't in 00:58:17.839 --> 00:58:19.839 fact have any information on how to 00:58:19.839 --> 00:58:22.319 configure it, change it, or use it. It 00:58:22.319 --> 00:58:24.640 wasn't a technical manual at all, but 00:58:24.640 --> 00:58:26.480 more of an escalation path for 00:58:26.480 --> 00:58:28.720 troubleshooting emergency services. If 00:58:28.720 --> 00:58:30.960 this breaks, call this office. If that 00:58:30.960 --> 00:58:32.880 breaks, call this office. That sort of 00:58:32.880 --> 00:58:35.520 thing. It had a lot of technical jargon, 00:58:35.520 --> 00:58:38.079 which made it incredibly hard to read. 00:58:38.079 --> 00:58:40.480 But it didn't teach anyone how to take 00:58:40.480 --> 00:58:43.599 down the 911 system. And the prosecutors 00:58:43.599 --> 00:58:45.040 were pitting their whole argument 00:58:45.040 --> 00:58:47.760 against how dangerous it was to publish 00:58:47.760 --> 00:58:49.680 that, saying that anyone who reads it 00:58:49.680 --> 00:58:51.680 could go and take down the 911 system, 00:58:51.680 --> 00:58:53.920 but it just wasn't the case. All you got 00:58:53.920 --> 00:58:55.599 out of it were definitions and 00:58:55.599 --> 00:58:58.000 escalation paths, barely anything to 00:58:58.000 --> 00:59:00.240 actually do anything with. And the trial 00:59:00.240 --> 00:59:03.280 just kept going on. But then suddenly, 00:59:03.280 --> 00:59:06.210 EFF got a hot tip from someone. It 00:59:06.210 --> 00:59:08.079 [music] was discovered that if you 00:59:08.079 --> 00:59:10.319 called up Bell South, they would 00:59:10.319 --> 00:59:13.200 actually send you the E911 file and just 00:59:13.200 --> 00:59:15.119 charge you a $13 printing and shipping 00:59:15.119 --> 00:59:17.440 fee. It was basically available free 00:59:17.440 --> 00:59:19.440 from the very company that was accusing 00:59:19.440 --> 00:59:22.160 him of theft. From what I understand is 00:59:22.160 --> 00:59:24.000 that it wasn't the exact same file, but 00:59:24.000 --> 00:59:26.240 the contents had the same information in 00:59:26.240 --> 00:59:27.920 it. So, whatever [music] was supposed to 00:59:27.920 --> 00:59:30.640 be secret and sensitive was not in fact 00:59:30.640 --> 00:59:32.319 secret or sensitive [music] because they 00:59:32.319 --> 00:59:35.119 were giving it away. The prosecution had 00:59:35.119 --> 00:59:37.651 no legs to stand on after that and 00:59:37.651 --> 00:59:40.319 [music] the case got dropped. This was 00:59:40.319 --> 00:59:43.359 not a holy manual worth $79,000. It was 00:59:43.359 --> 00:59:45.440 a common technical document that the 00:59:45.440 --> 00:59:47.200 very company would give away for free if 00:59:47.200 --> 00:59:49.280 you just asked for it. This was a 00:59:49.280 --> 00:59:53.200 monumental win for Frack and the EFF for 00:59:53.200 --> 00:59:55.920 Frack. This put them down into legendary 00:59:55.920 --> 00:59:57.920 status. They weren't just a hacker eene 00:59:57.920 --> 00:59:59.760 anymore. They were the hackers who got 00:59:59.760 --> 01:00:02.079 arrested by the Secret Service, fought 01:00:02.079 --> 01:00:05.680 the law, and won. How badass is that? 01:00:05.680 --> 01:00:07.359 And for the EFF, this was proof to them 01:00:07.359 --> 01:00:09.920 that the CFAA legislation was prone to 01:00:09.920 --> 01:00:12.160 overreach and was improperly being used 01:00:12.160 --> 01:00:14.319 to criminalize the dissemination of 01:00:14.319 --> 01:00:16.799 information. This solidified the idea 01:00:16.799 --> 01:00:19.280 that the EFF was an important entity 01:00:19.280 --> 01:00:21.359 that had to keep fighting for our 01:00:21.359 --> 01:00:23.599 digital rights. 01:00:23.599 --> 01:00:25.040 Man, there couldn't be a better symbol 01:00:25.040 --> 01:00:26.799 to wrap up this story with because 01:00:26.799 --> 01:00:28.880 whether the E911 file was the most 01:00:28.880 --> 01:00:31.040 dangerous document on the internets or 01:00:31.040 --> 01:00:33.680 just a $13 pamphlet, it almost didn't 01:00:33.680 --> 01:00:36.079 even matter in the end. Because what if 01:00:36.079 --> 01:00:37.760 I told you the day before authorities 01:00:37.760 --> 01:00:39.839 raided Craig and a week before they 01:00:39.839 --> 01:00:43.599 raided MOD, AT&T admitted very publicly 01:00:43.599 --> 01:00:46.720 that the outage was caused by a bug in 01:00:46.720 --> 01:00:48.480 their own software. It was 01:00:48.480 --> 01:00:51.440 self-inflicted by AT&T itself by 01:00:51.440 --> 01:00:52.880 accident, but still it was their own 01:00:52.880 --> 01:00:55.119 doing. One of their programmers put in 01:00:55.119 --> 01:00:57.440 the word break in a wrong part of the 01:00:57.440 --> 01:00:58.880 code and that just caused all their 01:00:58.880 --> 01:01:01.359 computer switches to crash. So all that 01:01:01.359 --> 01:01:03.520 kurfuffle, all those arrests which was 01:01:03.520 --> 01:01:07.920 triggered by the AT&T outage was all 01:01:07.920 --> 01:01:12.000 because AT&T broke their own systems. 01:01:12.000 --> 01:01:14.000 It took years for people to get their 01:01:14.000 --> 01:01:16.400 lives back on track. And there's still a 01:01:16.400 --> 01:01:18.000 lot of bitterness between people in 01:01:18.000 --> 01:01:20.480 those circles. And here's Eli again. And 01:01:20.480 --> 01:01:22.720 this was where Ira Glass interviewed him 01:01:22.720 --> 01:01:24.559 after he got out of prison and wasn't 01:01:24.559 --> 01:01:26.319 allowed to touch a computer for a while. 01:01:26.319 --> 01:01:29.040 >> So I was like, uh, damn, this is like I 01:01:29.040 --> 01:01:31.119 have to fill this void. What's what 01:01:31.119 --> 01:01:32.559 should I do, you know? And I I didn't 01:01:32.559 --> 01:01:34.720 know what to do anymore. It was like 01:01:34.720 --> 01:01:37.839 horrible. Just, you know, it was sad. I 01:01:37.839 --> 01:01:39.680 would we would call each other up and 01:01:39.680 --> 01:01:40.960 usually we'd be talking about computers 01:01:40.960 --> 01:01:42.240 and trading passwords and did we get 01:01:42.240 --> 01:01:45.040 into this and that and I remember the 01:01:45.040 --> 01:01:47.040 first time we call I was like so what's 01:01:47.040 --> 01:01:50.799 up? Nothing. [snorts] Uh I cleaned my 01:01:50.799 --> 01:01:53.040 room yesterday. Yeah, they came over and 01:01:53.040 --> 01:01:56.160 cleaned my room too pretty well. Yeah, I 01:01:56.160 --> 01:02:00.480 know. So, uh what do you want to [music] 01:02:00.480 --> 01:02:04.000 do? I don't know. [snorts] Cuz it's like 01:02:04.000 --> 01:02:05.839 such a large part of our lives at that 01:02:05.839 --> 01:02:07.359 point, you know? You have so much power. 01:02:07.359 --> 01:02:08.960 To lose it in an [music] instant like 01:02:08.960 --> 01:02:12.640 that is just so such a shock, you know? 01:02:12.640 --> 01:02:15.200 It's like bam, you don't have that power 01:02:15.200 --> 01:02:16.880 anymore. You can't sit on your computer. 01:02:16.880 --> 01:02:18.400 What are you going to do? Uh-oh. I'm a 01:02:18.400 --> 01:02:20.640 regular guy now. I'm not I'm not acid 01:02:20.640 --> 01:02:22.640 freak anymore. You know what's what's 01:02:22.640 --> 01:02:25.280 acid freak without a computer? You know, 01:02:25.280 --> 01:02:27.839 just a regular guy. 01:02:27.839 --> 01:02:32.720 So, it was a bummer. 01:02:32.720 --> 01:02:36.640 And I think that marks when the sun set 01:02:36.640 --> 01:02:40.079 on the golden age of hacking. What began 01:02:40.079 --> 01:02:42.319 as a thousand screeching modems and dim 01:02:42.319 --> 01:02:44.559 bedrooms lit by the glow of heavy 01:02:44.559 --> 01:02:47.119 monitors fueled by curiosity and 01:02:47.119 --> 01:02:50.880 rebelliousness. It ended in knock knocks 01:02:50.880 --> 01:02:53.520 at the door. And the wires got heavy. 01:02:53.520 --> 01:02:56.319 The fun got serious. Too serious. The 01:02:56.319 --> 01:02:58.400 thrill of dialing blindly into [music] 01:02:58.400 --> 01:03:00.960 the unknown gave way to lawyers, 01:03:00.960 --> 01:03:03.200 headlines, and the cold steel of federal 01:03:03.200 --> 01:03:05.520 laws written by people who never touched 01:03:05.520 --> 01:03:08.400 a terminal in their lives. The federal 01:03:08.400 --> 01:03:10.480 government raided people's homes. They 01:03:10.480 --> 01:03:12.480 looked [music] for digital demons and 01:03:12.480 --> 01:03:14.319 found instead a bunch of misfit kids 01:03:14.319 --> 01:03:16.160 arguing about baud rates and antsy 01:03:16.160 --> 01:03:18.960 colors. But it didn't matter. The spell 01:03:18.960 --> 01:03:21.039 had been broken. The new digital 01:03:21.039 --> 01:03:23.440 frontier was now off limits to 01:03:23.440 --> 01:03:25.359 exploration. You could feel it. The 01:03:25.359 --> 01:03:27.440 stakes were higher now. The channels 01:03:27.440 --> 01:03:31.039 were quieter. The boards went dark. The 01:03:31.039 --> 01:03:33.599 legends disappeared. The ones who stuck 01:03:33.599 --> 01:03:35.520 around. Well, they took jobs behind 01:03:35.520 --> 01:03:36.960 desks that [music] they used to try to 01:03:36.960 --> 01:03:38.720 hack into. 01:03:38.720 --> 01:03:40.880 But back then, during that fleeting 01:03:40.880 --> 01:03:43.839 stretch of time, it really did feel like 01:03:43.839 --> 01:03:46.000 this is our world now. [music] The world 01:03:46.000 --> 01:03:48.319 of the electron and the switch and the 01:03:48.319 --> 01:03:51.119 beauty of the baud. unregulated, 01:03:51.119 --> 01:03:54.559 uncharted, unsupervised, pure signal and 01:03:54.559 --> 01:03:57.599 no static punk rock energy. A crooked 01:03:57.599 --> 01:03:59.680 little utopia that was inside all our 01:03:59.680 --> 01:04:01.760 computers. And if you were lucky enough 01:04:01.760 --> 01:04:04.480 to log in while it lasted, you know it 01:04:04.480 --> 01:04:07.119 wasn't just hacking. It was freedom. It 01:04:07.119 --> 01:04:09.760 was adventure into a new frontier. It 01:04:09.760 --> 01:04:12.720 was the last beautiful accident before 01:04:12.720 --> 01:04:15.280 the [music] age of control. Because when 01:04:15.280 --> 01:04:17.920 the CFAA showed up, a law written by 01:04:17.920 --> 01:04:19.119 people who couldn't tell the difference 01:04:19.119 --> 01:04:22.240 between terrorism and curiosity, it 01:04:22.240 --> 01:04:24.544 didn't catch real criminals, just 01:04:24.544 --> 01:04:26.640 [music] the kids who still believed that 01:04:26.640 --> 01:04:29.599 the frontier was worth exploring. You 01:04:29.599 --> 01:04:32.400 can't hack the world forever, but for 01:04:32.400 --> 01:04:35.200 that brief moment in time, it sure felt 01:04:35.200 --> 01:04:37.440 like we could. 01:04:37.440 --> 01:04:39.920 You may stop an individual, but you 01:04:39.920 --> 01:04:43.520 can't stop us all. After all, we're all 01:04:43.520 --> 01:04:50.720 alike. 01:04:50.720 --> 01:04:52.240 This episode was researched and written 01:04:52.240 --> 01:04:54.559 with help from Nate Nelson. Together, we 01:04:54.559 --> 01:04:56.000 crushed a ton of books and scoured the 01:04:56.000 --> 01:04:57.760 far reaches of the internet. And we kept 01:04:57.760 --> 01:04:59.200 getting pulled in so many directions, 01:04:59.200 --> 01:05:01.520 which is why this episode was so long. I 01:05:01.520 --> 01:05:03.359 got super fascinated by so many aspects 01:05:03.359 --> 01:05:05.280 of hacking in the 80s, went down some 01:05:05.280 --> 01:05:07.200 really fun memory lanes. I want [music] 01:05:07.200 --> 01:05:08.960 to specifically mention two books that 01:05:08.960 --> 01:05:10.720 were super helpful for us to write this 01:05:10.720 --> 01:05:13.280 episode. Um, there's Hacker Crackdown by 01:05:13.280 --> 01:05:15.680 Bruce Sterling and Masters of Deception 01:05:15.680 --> 01:05:18.400 by Michelle Slatala and Joshua Quitner. 01:05:18.400 --> 01:05:20.160 These books captured what was happening 01:05:20.160 --> 01:05:21.760 in the shadows at the time in such a 01:05:21.760 --> 01:05:23.440 clear and remarkable way. [music] You 01:05:23.440 --> 01:05:24.559 definitely should check them out if you 01:05:24.559 --> 01:05:25.680 want to hear more about what happened 01:05:25.680 --> 01:05:27.280 then, or for a totally different story 01:05:27.280 --> 01:05:28.960 of hacking in the 80s. Check out the 01:05:28.960 --> 01:05:31.119 book Cuckoo's Egg, which is a classic 01:05:31.119 --> 01:05:33.760 hacker story. As a reminder, you can get 01:05:33.760 --> 01:05:36.240 a premium listening experience by going 01:05:36.240 --> 01:05:38.720 to plus.darknetdiaries.com. 01:05:38.720 --> 01:05:40.559 If you sign up, you'll get an ad-ree 01:05:40.559 --> 01:05:42.720 version of this show, plus 11 bonus 01:05:42.720 --> 01:05:44.880 episodes. Not only that, it's an amazing 01:05:44.880 --> 01:05:46.720 way to show your support for the show 01:05:46.720 --> 01:05:48.559 and to keep the lights on over here. If 01:05:48.559 --> 01:05:50.000 you like what we're doing and you want 01:05:50.000 --> 01:05:52.079 more of it, please consider supporting 01:05:52.079 --> 01:05:55.680 by going to plus.darknetdi.com. 01:05:55.680 --> 01:05:57.359 This episode was created by me, Sir 01:05:57.359 --> 01:05:59.839 Crashot, Jackider. This episode was 01:05:59.839 --> 01:06:02.400 written by Freaku, Nate Nelson. Our 01:06:02.400 --> 01:06:04.400 editor is the laser disck lord, Tristan 01:06:04.400 --> 01:06:06.319 Ledger. This episode is scored by the 01:06:06.319 --> 01:06:08.000 blind SQL Injection, Andrew 01:06:08.000 --> 01:06:09.920 Merryweather, mixing by Proximity Sound, 01:06:09.920 --> 01:06:11.280 intro music by the mysterious 01:06:11.280 --> 01:06:13.440 Breakmaster Cylinder. 01:06:13.440 --> 01:06:16.160 So, I remember I got banned from a BBS. 01:06:16.160 --> 01:06:17.839 SISOP just was like, "You're not welcome 01:06:17.839 --> 01:06:20.720 here anymore." Why? 01:06:20.720 --> 01:06:23.520 Because I uploaded 12 incomplete copies 01:06:23.520 --> 01:06:25.359 of King's Quest because I was trying to 01:06:25.359 --> 01:06:28.000 download Leisure Suit Larry. This is 01:06:28.000 --> 01:06:31.559 Darknet Diaries.