WEBVTT

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man, have I got a story for you. Where

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did this one even come from? Oh, yeah.

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It was uh it was Twitter. I got a

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Twitter DM and this guy's like, "Hi, I'm

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Nathan." And I'm like, "Okay." And he

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was like, "Yeah, I've done some stuff

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and you might want to interview me. I

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should note right here that this episode

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has a lot of swear words and I would say

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is for mature audiences. So, if you have

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some sensitive ears around you, I

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recommend listening to this one with

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headphones or whatever you need to do.

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That's your warning. That's your graphic

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warning for this one. So, typically when

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someone DMs me and says, "Hey, you know,

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you should interview me for your show."

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My first response without even knowing

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anything about them is, "Can I see your

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police report?"

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Because a lot of people who message me,

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they like want to be on the show for

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hacking something, but maybe they've

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never been caught. And so, I hate to

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glorify their actions, right? But even

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more so, it's probably true that their

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story isn't over yet. and it's just the

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beginning and I should probably check in

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with them like in a few years to see how

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things are going. But I also have CEOs

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message me and say, "Hey, I'd like to

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come on the show and tell you about my

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product and how great everything is and

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how great we can defend things and

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stuff." And so when I just immediately

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start by asking for a police report,

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that cuts right through a lot of the

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small talk and gets right to the heart

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of what I'm looking for. I want to know

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about the worst day of your life. the

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the thing that happened that was just

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catastrophic to you and you probably

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don't even want to talk about that. But

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with this guy Nathan, I asked him for a

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police report. He just started sending

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me link after link and news reports and

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files and videos and photos and yeah,

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indictments and affidavit and all that

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stuff. And it was piling up. This story

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just kept growing. I couldn't even keep

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up. And I was like, "Okay, okay, okay.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's definitely talk.

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Whatever this one is, it looks like it

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goes deep." So, I'm like, "Hey, we

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should probably switch to Signal," which

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is a more private messaging app. And he

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gives me his Signal number. And I

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message him there, and we start talking.

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But then I find out I'm actually talking

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to his brother, a different guy. I'm

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like, "What? What the Hey, man. I

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thought I thought I was talking to you

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on signal, but it ended up being your

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brother." And he's like, "Yeah, I gave

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you both me and my brother my brother's

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signal so you could talk to both of us."

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And I'm like, "Okay, which one is

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yours?" So, he tells me which one is

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his. And I'm like, "Okay, let's do a

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call." And he's like, "Great. Give me a

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date and time and I'll be there." And

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I'm like, "All right, well, how about

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this weekend?" He's like, "Hell yeah.

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Uh, Saturday, I'm free all day." I'm

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like, "Great. Let's do it." So, Saturday

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comes, I wake up and I check the signal

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and I got a message from him in all caps

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and it's like, "I have to work until

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midnight, but it's not that hard. So, I

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can multitask and I can talk to you at

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the same time." I'm like, "No, no, no,

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no, no. Uh, don't call me while you're

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at work. finish your job and then we'll

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talk. How about tomorrow, Sunday, 10:00

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a.m.? He's like, "Yeah, that sounds

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great. I got nothing going on all day

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Sunday." So, when Sunday 10:00 a.m.

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comes around, he messages me saying,

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"Man, my baby mama is tripping, so I

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have to drive my daughter somewhere. I'm

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going to be 2 hours late for the call."

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I'm like, "Oh, okay. Uh, no problem.

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It's Sunday. See you in two hours." So,

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two hours go by and I'm like, "All

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right, you ready?" and he's like, "Uh,

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my phone is about to die and I'm not

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near a computer, so uh, let me charge it

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on a power bank for 30 minutes." I'm

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like, "Okay, fine."

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And I think at this time he like went to

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his mom's house or something and she's

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like seven years old and I think she he

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was going to take her to the store or

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something, but then he text me a photo

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of her and she's all dressed up, ready

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to go out, jewelry on, purse in hand,

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but she's passed out on a couch and he

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tells me she drank too much and passed

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out. Then he even tells me like it's not

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even her house. Uh, someone's asking me

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to take my mom somewhere else so now

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I've got to drive my passed out mom

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somewhere. And then he starts filling my

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text with wild chats. He like I don't

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even know some of the shit he was saying

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to me on Signal. It's like uh he was

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going to show me a video of him cussing

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out some cops. And then he told me his

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brother is on the run due to some

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impending felonies. And I'm like, "Is

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that the same brother I talked to?" He's

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like, "Yeah, man." And he tells me his

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uncle killed himself and how he chose

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his kids instead of his uncle's life.

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And I I can't even follow what he's

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saying. But then he goes swimming and he

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sends me a photo of him swimming in a

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pool with his daughter. And uh needless

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to say, we did not get a chance to do a

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call that weekend even though I was

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sitting on the line for like six hours

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waiting for him to show up. So we tried

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to reschedule, but man, we had a lot of

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conflicts. All I'm trying to say is that

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this guy Nathan is one wiggly guy and

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it's hard to get on the phone, but

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eventually we got on the phone together.

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You made it. >> Yeah.

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>> So, what are you doing right now?

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>> Uh, I'm sitting right here uh with a

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bong in front of me in front of the five

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computer screens.

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>> What about why five?

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>> I mean, because my brain's going so

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fast.

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>> Oh, yeah. You only have two eyes,

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though. No, but they're going

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everywhere.

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>> What's What's you see them all at the

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same time kind of. You know what I mean?

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>> Why what's going on in your brain? Why

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is it going so fast? Explain to me your

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process your your brain here.

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>> It's like fireworks constantly exploding

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in my brain.

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>> Yeah. So, give me an example. Are you

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like, "Oh, I got to check an email. I

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got to check Twitter. I like what's

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going on."

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>> Yeah. Like thousand a thousand.

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>> No, babe. I'm not talking to you. It's

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my daughter. >> Mhm.

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>> No, honey. Do an interview.

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>> She said, "Oh, okay." And that

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>> Yeah.

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>> Yeah. So, uh, so I I prepare for the

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worst and then hope for the best. Does

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that make sense? Yeah.

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>> That way you're never surprised.

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>> Yeah. And you've gone through some

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pretty bad stuff. So,

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>> Well, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

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>> You've got different levels of trauma,

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>> right? There are levels to it. For sure.

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For sure.

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Yeah, like they need they need to scale

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for that. Maybe all this new uh AI and

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supercomputer shit, they'll come up with

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some good shit. We're going to be

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cyborgs by like by like 2030, we're

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going to be uh getting two years younger

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every year.

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>> Yeah. Yeah. I hope so. I I don't want to

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get older.

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>> They want to live forever. You know what

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I mean?

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>> Yeah. I I I want that. I

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>> I don't know if I want to live forever.

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>> All right. Let's start with what's your

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first name? Nathan.

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>> Okay. I I got in my notes that Nathan is

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the ring leader of this whole

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enterprise.

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>> Well, you know, uh I mean, if they would

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have really got the people that should

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they should have got or whoever, then it

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was probably uh my mother-in-law that

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would have been the ring leader cuz uh

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Jeez, it gets worse already. We haven't

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even started. It already gets worse.

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These are true stories from the dark

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side of the internet.

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I'm Jack Reider.

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This is Darknet Diaries.

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[Music]

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Nathan grew up in Oak Cliff, an area

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near Dallas, Texas.

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>> They So they they put me on Riddlin when

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I was 6 years old, bro.

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>> Ridling. Wow.

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>> First day of kindergarten.

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>> I tried to stab kid at school

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>> cuz your head was fireworks. Wait, did

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you say you tried to stab a kid at

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school?

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>> First day of kindergarten.

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>> Oh man, you were that kind of kid?

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>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. MHMR for real.

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Yeah.

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And then of course the drugs didn't

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help. When you're self-medicating,

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you're thinking it's helping and it

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ain't helping. [Music]

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By the time he was 14, him and his

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brother were really into video games.

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Diablo II and World of Warcraft were his

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favorites. And at the time, there was an

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underground market where you could buy

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and sell in-game items for real money.

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So they'd play these games and try to

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sell things within the game. Well, I was

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like 14 and I I was selling Diablo I

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items. I kept getting scammed on PayPal

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with chargebacks. So, I just joined that

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that side because they seemed to be

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making more money cuz I was losing more.

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And there's his origin story.

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He got scammed and the scammer didn't

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get in any trouble at all. He got away

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clean with Nathan's money. He was like,

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"All right, all right. I see how this

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world is. Either you're getting scammed

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or you're the scammer. Might as well be

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the scammer." Like I I I knew right from

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wrong from from when I was a kid, I

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chose this I chose this path. My parents

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didn't raise me like this. My parents

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raised me to do right.

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But when I got tired of getting scammed,

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I just chose the path to the dark side.

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But his origin story isn't as simple as

00:09:03.839 --> 00:09:06.480
that. If you know Oak Cliff, you may

00:09:06.480 --> 00:09:09.120
also know that that's a rough area of

00:09:09.120 --> 00:09:10.480
town to grow up in.

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>> So I was raised middle class, but I

00:09:12.080 --> 00:09:13.839
lived in the hood. Like my parents made

00:09:13.839 --> 00:09:16.240
probably about $100,000 a year. Okay?

00:09:16.240 --> 00:09:18.240
you know, we had the nicest house in the

00:09:18.240 --> 00:09:19.920
neighborhood and shit like that. But I

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but I I was raised in the streets. So

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>> yeah. So tell me what was shitty about

00:09:23.680 --> 00:09:26.080
your neighborhood.

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>> Uh you know, uh police chasing people

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around the neighborhood, shooting up

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people at 3:00 in the morning. You're

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looking out your window and there's

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three helicopters in the sky looking for

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somebody and the spotlight silent on

00:09:35.440 --> 00:09:38.000
your house. Shit like that. Gunshots. Uh

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you know, seeing people get shot. Uh

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>> yeah.

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>> Yeah. Yeah, I mean, you know, I learn I

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pick up all my bad habits at school.

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>> I mean, that's where everybody learns

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all the bad shit, right? Is at school

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>> and then I got on the internet and then

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I started picking up all the bad shit.

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Once I started getting into wares and

00:09:54.640 --> 00:09:58.160
programming and AOL back in '94, 95, 96,

00:09:58.160 --> 00:10:00.160
97, 98.

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>> Well, I think there's some sort of

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reflection here of like it's like, hey,

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look, if I'm going to be nice, people

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are still going to rob me and beat me up

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and all this sort of thing. So, I got to

00:10:08.480 --> 00:10:11.040
toughen up. I gotta be a jerk to the

00:10:11.040 --> 00:10:13.920
world because the world's a jerk to me.

00:10:13.920 --> 00:10:17.440
>> That's why I turned into a monster.

00:10:17.440 --> 00:10:19.839
>> I be like, seriously, like I just I just

00:10:19.839 --> 00:10:22.560
did 13 years in prison and and I didn't

00:10:22.560 --> 00:10:23.839
even know I could fight that good. I

00:10:23.839 --> 00:10:25.040
mean, I look I got into a lot of fights

00:10:25.040 --> 00:10:26.959
growing up where I grew up at, but I

00:10:26.959 --> 00:10:28.880
didn't know I was a beast. People learn

00:10:28.880 --> 00:10:30.480
a lot about themselves in prison, don't

00:10:30.480 --> 00:10:31.360
they?

00:10:31.360 --> 00:10:33.279
>> Yeah, you do. I mean, I'm still learning

00:10:33.279 --> 00:10:34.959
things about I I just I just realized

00:10:34.959 --> 00:10:36.560
what a couple of triggers I had that

00:10:36.560 --> 00:10:37.839
were pissing me off and how easy they

00:10:37.839 --> 00:10:39.200
were to change. So, I didn't get mad no

00:10:39.200 --> 00:10:41.200
more. >> Yeah. Yeah.

00:10:41.200 --> 00:10:42.959
>> It's like self-discovery. Like, I'm just

00:10:42.959 --> 00:10:45.200
now getting self-discovery cuz I cuz

00:10:45.200 --> 00:10:46.959
I've been clouded by drugs my whole

00:10:46.959 --> 00:10:47.519
life.

00:10:47.519 --> 00:10:50.160
>> So, who were you living with at 14?

00:10:50.160 --> 00:10:51.680
>> I was living with my mom and dad in

00:10:51.680 --> 00:10:53.760
Oakliff, Dallas.

00:10:53.760 --> 00:10:55.839
>> Your brother living together as well?

00:10:55.839 --> 00:10:57.920
>> Yes. Yeah. Me and my little brother.

00:10:57.920 --> 00:11:00.959
>> All right. Um I just dropped out of

00:11:00.959 --> 00:11:05.040
school. dropped out.

00:11:05.040 --> 00:11:08.720
>> Let me guess, let me guess. Um,

00:11:08.720 --> 00:11:10.720
you were I want to I want to say dirt

00:11:10.720 --> 00:11:14.079
bag, but it but you probably don't don't

00:11:14.079 --> 00:11:15.600
call yourself a dirt bag. I'm trying to

00:11:15.600 --> 00:11:17.440
guess what kind of person you are, but I

00:11:17.440 --> 00:11:19.920
imagine just you got into drugs and just

00:11:19.920 --> 00:11:21.920
screwed around and like, forget this.

00:11:21.920 --> 00:11:23.920
I'm done with this. And you didn't

00:11:23.920 --> 00:11:26.160
shower and you just played video games.

00:11:26.160 --> 00:11:27.200
I don't know.

00:11:27.200 --> 00:11:29.120
>> I was I was out pimping hoes.

00:11:29.120 --> 00:11:30.720
>> What?

00:11:30.720 --> 00:11:35.839
>> Yeah. When I s I go chasing pussy. Yeah,

00:11:35.839 --> 00:11:38.880
>> it's crazy. Like like so I dropped out

00:11:38.880 --> 00:11:40.480
and my mom bought me a computer from the

00:11:40.480 --> 00:11:44.079
IT guy at work. It was a 486 pineium and

00:11:44.079 --> 00:11:47.200
I I want to say it was a uh 144 baud

00:11:47.200 --> 00:11:51.360
modem and uh I I've been stuck on a

00:11:51.360 --> 00:11:57.519
computer ever since.

00:11:57.519 --> 00:11:59.120
And this whole time, Nathan and his

00:11:59.120 --> 00:12:00.320
little brother were watching how people

00:12:00.320 --> 00:12:02.640
were making money in their area and

00:12:02.640 --> 00:12:03.920
living in the hood. You could probably

00:12:03.920 --> 00:12:05.120
guess what kind of stuff that they were

00:12:05.120 --> 00:12:07.600
seeing. A lot of hustlers. And they were

00:12:07.600 --> 00:12:09.440
set on trying to find ways to make money

00:12:09.440 --> 00:12:11.760
themselves, but they were also super

00:12:11.760 --> 00:12:14.240
into computers. So that's where they

00:12:14.240 --> 00:12:16.320
focused on trying to make money. Okay.

00:12:16.320 --> 00:12:18.480
So like my whole life, me and my little

00:12:18.480 --> 00:12:20.000
brother, we always made money on the

00:12:20.000 --> 00:12:21.600
internet uh through like video games,

00:12:21.600 --> 00:12:23.440
through uh selling currency and stuff

00:12:23.440 --> 00:12:24.480
like that for games and stuff and

00:12:24.480 --> 00:12:26.800
whatnot. How do how do you do that?

00:12:26.800 --> 00:12:28.639
>> For like selling in in-game currencies

00:12:28.639 --> 00:12:30.240
for different video games. Like we used

00:12:30.240 --> 00:12:32.560
to have a couple of Diablo II dukes and

00:12:32.560 --> 00:12:34.079
we sold Diablo II items. Then we sold

00:12:34.079 --> 00:12:36.560
WoW gold. Now we had a virus, a brute

00:12:36.560 --> 00:12:38.639
kid virus that stole all accounts for

00:12:38.639 --> 00:12:41.360
every uh gaming uh platform that they

00:12:41.360 --> 00:12:42.880
had.

00:12:42.880 --> 00:12:46.000
>> How were you getting the gold to sell?

00:12:46.000 --> 00:12:47.279
>> Oh, we were buying it from them with

00:12:47.279 --> 00:12:48.720
stolen PayPals and shit.

00:12:48.720 --> 00:12:52.560
>> Oo. So we got to step back a second now.

00:12:52.560 --> 00:12:56.160
>> Oh, that's a whole different story.

00:12:56.160 --> 00:12:58.480
So you you got

00:12:58.480 --> 00:13:00.560
>> since 94, you know, I was doing it back

00:13:00.560 --> 00:13:02.399
in the BBS days.

00:13:02.399 --> 00:13:05.360
>> Holy cow.

00:13:05.360 --> 00:13:07.360
>> So he'd buy access to someone else's

00:13:07.360 --> 00:13:10.000
PayPal account, buy some in-game gold

00:13:10.000 --> 00:13:12.240
with that, and then he'd have the gold

00:13:12.240 --> 00:13:14.240
in his video game account, and then he'd

00:13:14.240 --> 00:13:16.480
sell that gold to some other player for

00:13:16.480 --> 00:13:18.480
real cash, which he could put in his

00:13:18.480 --> 00:13:20.800
pocket. In this way, he was using World

00:13:20.800 --> 00:13:22.880
of Warcraft gold as sort of a

00:13:22.880 --> 00:13:25.760
moneyaundering mechanism. And this led

00:13:25.760 --> 00:13:28.320
him to chat rooms where people were

00:13:28.320 --> 00:13:31.600
selling or trading credit card dumps.

00:13:31.600 --> 00:13:33.600
This is where they get their hands on

00:13:33.600 --> 00:13:36.160
some full credit card details so that

00:13:36.160 --> 00:13:37.519
they could buy whatever they want with

00:13:37.519 --> 00:13:39.200
it. And they just weren't hidden, bro.

00:13:39.200 --> 00:13:40.480
Like, you know, it'd be like hit or

00:13:40.480 --> 00:13:42.160
miss, like, you know, because they have

00:13:42.160 --> 00:13:44.959
all them uh algorithms and shit running.

00:13:44.959 --> 00:13:47.120
So, it would be hit or miss. And then

00:13:47.120 --> 00:13:48.639
but then when when you when you get a

00:13:48.639 --> 00:13:50.880
good one, it'll be a banger, you know?

00:13:50.880 --> 00:13:52.480
So I was like, man. So then we were sat

00:13:52.480 --> 00:13:53.680
down again. We're like, well, there's

00:13:53.680 --> 00:13:56.079
got to be a better way because this just

00:13:56.079 --> 00:13:57.680
ain't working. See, I've got to hand it

00:13:57.680 --> 00:13:59.760
to these two boys. They were incredibly

00:13:59.760 --> 00:14:02.240
persistent and diligent at finding ways

00:14:02.240 --> 00:14:04.320
to make money. Sometimes it was legal,

00:14:04.320 --> 00:14:06.480
sometimes it wasn't. They would study a

00:14:06.480 --> 00:14:08.639
lot, learn how to do stuff, try it,

00:14:08.639 --> 00:14:10.720
fail, and then pivot and try something

00:14:10.720 --> 00:14:12.720
new. They were young teenagers, though,

00:14:12.720 --> 00:14:13.839
so a lot of the stuff they were doing

00:14:13.839 --> 00:14:16.160
was really dumb and not working. But

00:14:16.160 --> 00:14:17.839
they knew there was loads of money to be

00:14:17.839 --> 00:14:20.959
made online somewhere, scamming,

00:14:20.959 --> 00:14:23.199
stealing. It was just a matter of trying

00:14:23.199 --> 00:14:25.440
lots of stuff before finding where the

00:14:25.440 --> 00:14:28.880
good stuff was. One idea was the one

00:14:28.880 --> 00:14:31.600
that his mother-in-law came up with. He

00:14:31.600 --> 00:14:33.680
was married in, I don't know, 2008ish,

00:14:33.680 --> 00:14:35.920
and his wife worked at Walmart, and his

00:14:35.920 --> 00:14:38.320
mother-in-law gave him an idea. When

00:14:38.320 --> 00:14:40.399
someone goes to use a credit card to buy

00:14:40.399 --> 00:14:43.120
stuff at Walmart, the cashier tries to

00:14:43.120 --> 00:14:44.800
scan the card in the little machine. And

00:14:44.800 --> 00:14:46.240
if it works, okay, great. The card is

00:14:46.240 --> 00:14:47.680
charged and the person goes on their

00:14:47.680 --> 00:14:49.839
way. But sometimes the magnetic stripe

00:14:49.839 --> 00:14:51.519
gets screwed up. The card is broken or

00:14:51.519 --> 00:14:52.959
something like that and it doesn't swipe

00:14:52.959 --> 00:14:55.519
right. So if the cashier can't swipe the

00:14:55.519 --> 00:14:57.760
card, then they look at the numbers on

00:14:57.760 --> 00:15:00.000
the card and punch those numbers into

00:15:00.000 --> 00:15:02.240
the cash register manually and charge

00:15:02.240 --> 00:15:04.320
the card that way. Well, his

00:15:04.320 --> 00:15:06.399
mother-in-law was like, "So what you

00:15:06.399 --> 00:15:08.560
guys should do Nathan, you should bring

00:15:08.560 --> 00:15:10.480
a totally broken card when my daughter

00:15:10.480 --> 00:15:13.680
is on the register and put on the card a

00:15:13.680 --> 00:15:15.199
bunch of credit card numbers for her to

00:15:15.199 --> 00:15:16.880
try and she'll just keep punching in

00:15:16.880 --> 00:15:18.240
random credit card numbers until you

00:15:18.240 --> 00:15:20.079
guys find one that actually works. My

00:15:20.079 --> 00:15:22.079
ex-wife was a manager at Walmart. So

00:15:22.079 --> 00:15:23.360
when I tell them that my card I've

00:15:23.360 --> 00:15:25.760
demagnetized a strip on a card so that

00:15:25.760 --> 00:15:27.360
it would say they got to punch it in,

00:15:27.360 --> 00:15:28.880
they can manually enter the number then

00:15:28.880 --> 00:15:30.480
if it doesn't swipe. Then she come over

00:15:30.480 --> 00:15:32.000
there and put in her little manager key

00:15:32.000 --> 00:15:34.160
and I give her a blank card, like a

00:15:34.160 --> 00:15:35.920
blank PVC card with just a mag strip on

00:15:35.920 --> 00:15:38.560
the back of it. with a post-it note on

00:15:38.560 --> 00:15:40.160
the front of it with like eight card

00:15:40.160 --> 00:15:43.040
numbers, eight CVE, and eight expiration

00:15:43.040 --> 00:15:44.560
dates. And we just sit there and run

00:15:44.560 --> 00:15:46.480
that bitch and get whatever we get off

00:15:46.480 --> 00:15:47.839
of them. Can you guess what he was

00:15:47.839 --> 00:15:49.920
trying to buy with this? Stacks and

00:15:49.920 --> 00:15:52.480
stacks of gift cards. If a random card

00:15:52.480 --> 00:15:54.480
would work, then he'd buy as many gift

00:15:54.480 --> 00:15:57.759
cards as he could on that bogus, madeup,

00:15:57.759 --> 00:15:59.199
stolen credit card number.

00:15:59.199 --> 00:16:01.120
>> I got $30,000 worth of gift cards in one

00:16:01.120 --> 00:16:04.480
day from her Walmart.

00:16:04.480 --> 00:16:06.639
You didn't actually spend any of the

00:16:06.639 --> 00:16:07.920
gift cards, right?

00:16:07.920 --> 00:16:09.120
>> Oh, no. We spent them all.

00:16:09.120 --> 00:16:11.120
>> Why you spent Where'd you spend $30,000

00:16:11.120 --> 00:16:13.199
in gift cards on?

00:16:13.199 --> 00:16:15.600
>> Uh, well, you know, you It's half price

00:16:15.600 --> 00:16:17.040
when you're selling it anyways. And when

00:16:17.040 --> 00:16:18.399
you're selling quantities like that, you

00:16:18.399 --> 00:16:21.360
got to go down about 40% anyways. So,

00:16:21.360 --> 00:16:22.800
>> okay. So, you were reselling them and

00:16:22.800 --> 00:16:24.720
then other people were spending it.

00:16:24.720 --> 00:16:26.000
>> Yeah. >> God damn.

00:16:26.000 --> 00:16:28.320
>> But I had sold one to my mom. So, she

00:16:28.320 --> 00:16:30.399
cuz you do bill pay at Walmart. So, I

00:16:30.399 --> 00:16:33.279
sold one to my mom and then they jam my

00:16:33.279 --> 00:16:35.360
mom up, too.

00:16:35.360 --> 00:16:37.040
My mom is retired and so she got her job

00:16:37.040 --> 00:16:39.440
at Walmart when she retired.

00:16:39.440 --> 00:16:42.000
>> So, what did your mom think of you

00:16:42.000 --> 00:16:44.240
giving her a stolen gift card? Like,

00:16:44.240 --> 00:16:45.839
it's I I imagine you've been in trouble

00:16:45.839 --> 00:16:47.680
like a thousand times by this point, but

00:16:47.680 --> 00:16:49.440
I I I should have been asking this like

00:16:49.440 --> 00:16:50.880
what do your parents think of you?

00:16:50.880 --> 00:16:53.199
>> I do. I want to

00:16:53.199 --> 00:16:55.519
aggravate with deadly weapons.

00:16:55.519 --> 00:16:57.360
>> Yeah, kindergarten. You were stabbing

00:16:57.360 --> 00:16:59.440
someone and then aggravated assaults. I

00:16:59.440 --> 00:17:01.839
imagine it's not news for your mom to

00:17:01.839 --> 00:17:04.160
hear that you're doing crazy shit,

00:17:04.160 --> 00:17:07.919
>> right?

00:17:07.919 --> 00:17:10.400
>> Yeah. Okay. So, I I don't even know what

00:17:10.400 --> 00:17:11.280
I don't even know.

00:17:11.280 --> 00:17:17.120
>> Fireworks. Fireworks, bro. Fireworks.

00:17:17.120 --> 00:17:19.120
>> At some point, the people at Walmart

00:17:19.120 --> 00:17:20.799
caught them and they put them in a room

00:17:20.799 --> 00:17:22.640
and interrogated them and told them,

00:17:22.640 --> 00:17:24.799
"Don't ever come back here again." But

00:17:24.799 --> 00:17:26.400
nothing ever came of that.

00:17:26.400 --> 00:17:27.600
>> So I can talk about this now because the

00:17:27.600 --> 00:17:28.799
statute of limitations ran out and they

00:17:28.799 --> 00:17:30.400
accept my dick. They already know except

00:17:30.400 --> 00:17:33.280
my dick. So >> okay.

00:17:33.280 --> 00:17:34.640
>> Yeah.

00:17:34.640 --> 00:17:36.320
>> Yeah. Don't say anything that's going to

00:17:36.320 --> 00:17:37.760
get you in trouble here.

00:17:37.760 --> 00:17:39.039
>> Yeah. I make sure the statute of

00:17:39.039 --> 00:17:40.720
limitations is ran out.

00:17:40.720 --> 00:17:43.120
>> Yeah. And and and I should say that my

00:17:43.120 --> 00:17:45.600
uh journalistic ethics or policy here is

00:17:45.600 --> 00:17:47.360
that anything you tell me in the past,

00:17:47.360 --> 00:17:49.919
I'm not going to tell anyone except for

00:17:49.919 --> 00:17:51.840
whatever goes out publicly, right? But

00:17:51.840 --> 00:17:53.919
if you tell me that you might like harm

00:17:53.919 --> 00:17:55.760
someone in the future or commit some

00:17:55.760 --> 00:17:57.679
crime in the future, then that puts me

00:17:57.679 --> 00:17:59.679
in a moral pickle where I'm just like,

00:17:59.679 --> 00:18:01.360
man, I could have I could have prevented

00:18:01.360 --> 00:18:02.559
like

00:18:02.559 --> 00:18:03.840
>> you have a moral obligation to do what's

00:18:03.840 --> 00:18:04.160
right.

00:18:04.160 --> 00:18:06.000
>> Yeah. I So don't tell don't get me

00:18:06.000 --> 00:18:08.720
involved in any of this shit.

00:18:08.720 --> 00:18:09.919
>> I'm going to go kill some pedals. You're

00:18:09.919 --> 00:18:10.640
not going to tell me.

00:18:10.640 --> 00:18:12.000
>> Don't tell me you what you're going to

00:18:12.000 --> 00:18:14.720
do in the future. If I was you, if I was

00:18:14.720 --> 00:18:17.600
going to and they were pedophiles, you

00:18:17.600 --> 00:18:19.919
wouldn't tell them.

00:18:19.919 --> 00:18:21.520
>> It's not morally right to go tell them

00:18:21.520 --> 00:18:23.039
the magical group kills some pedophiles.

00:18:23.039 --> 00:18:25.200
>> Well, have you heard like if you tell

00:18:25.200 --> 00:18:27.280
someone your plan, they're they're part

00:18:27.280 --> 00:18:29.039
of the conspiracy at that point just

00:18:29.039 --> 00:18:31.360
because you tell them.

00:18:31.360 --> 00:18:32.960
>> Did you know the feds give out oneperson

00:18:32.960 --> 00:18:34.480
conspiracies?

00:18:34.480 --> 00:18:37.120
What? I have I have a home girl that was

00:18:37.120 --> 00:18:38.080
locked up in the fence. She was on a

00:18:38.080 --> 00:18:40.240
oneperson conspiracy.

00:18:40.240 --> 00:18:41.600
Oh my gosh. That's with phone

00:18:41.600 --> 00:18:44.160
conversations and shit,

00:18:44.160 --> 00:18:46.400
>> man. Fireworks is right. All right,

00:18:46.400 --> 00:18:48.799
let's get back on track. Um, okay. So,

00:18:48.799 --> 00:18:50.799
that plan didn't work and it was time

00:18:50.799 --> 00:18:52.000
for them to try something new.

00:18:52.000 --> 00:18:53.679
>> We started OG's crew on like gangster

00:18:53.679 --> 00:18:56.320
hackers and shit. We had So, we had like

00:18:56.320 --> 00:18:58.559
like the original 419 scammers from

00:18:58.559 --> 00:19:00.240
Nigeria and shit. We had some of them in

00:19:00.240 --> 00:19:03.360
our our crew. Like it's crazy like the

00:19:03.360 --> 00:19:04.880
people that you meet online, bro, from

00:19:04.880 --> 00:19:06.640
all different regions of the world and

00:19:06.640 --> 00:19:09.039
just different cultures and and it's

00:19:09.039 --> 00:19:11.840
it's amazing how uh but but you you get

00:19:11.840 --> 00:19:14.160
on the internet and you know we're all

00:19:14.160 --> 00:19:16.720
alike. Everybody's everybody you can be

00:19:16.720 --> 00:19:18.240
whoever you want to be on the internet.

00:19:18.240 --> 00:19:20.960
We fucking messaged this uh one uh China

00:19:20.960 --> 00:19:22.480
dude

00:19:22.480 --> 00:19:24.000
and they were they did like back then

00:19:24.000 --> 00:19:25.919
they did like uh fake iPhones and shit

00:19:25.919 --> 00:19:27.679
like that

00:19:27.679 --> 00:19:33.440
and uh he had MSRS and uh skimmers and

00:19:33.440 --> 00:19:36.799
embossers and tippers and all that shit.

00:19:36.799 --> 00:19:39.280
>> This is equipment to steal credit cards

00:19:39.280 --> 00:19:41.600
and and print credit cards. The MSR is a

00:19:41.600 --> 00:19:44.320
magstripe reader writer. So if you get a

00:19:44.320 --> 00:19:46.320
blank credit card, you could program it

00:19:46.320 --> 00:19:48.960
with the MSR. They studied up on how all

00:19:48.960 --> 00:19:51.280
this works and they thought, "Yeah, if

00:19:51.280 --> 00:19:53.440
we get a skimmer, we could collect our

00:19:53.440 --> 00:19:55.919
own credit cards. No need to buy dumps

00:19:55.919 --> 00:19:58.000
from others." So, he was like, "All

00:19:58.000 --> 00:20:01.600
right, let's buy a skimmer."

00:20:01.600 --> 00:20:03.280
Bro, he had like a hell of a deal, bro.

00:20:03.280 --> 00:20:04.880
It was like, "You got to buy 10 of them,

00:20:04.880 --> 00:20:07.039
though." And they were like $250 a piece

00:20:07.039 --> 00:20:10.160
back then. We saved up, got $2,500 and

00:20:10.160 --> 00:20:12.640
ordered them. And I we got like two

00:20:12.640 --> 00:20:15.039
couple MSRs and but we got mostly

00:20:15.039 --> 00:20:17.520
skimmers though. Like I had gas pump

00:20:17.520 --> 00:20:19.039
ones and everything, but they never

00:20:19.039 --> 00:20:20.720
>> Okay. So, did you try putting those

00:20:20.720 --> 00:20:22.880
skimmers on gas pumps and stuff?

00:20:22.880 --> 00:20:24.720
>> Oh, yeah. We had them on gas pumps.

00:20:24.720 --> 00:20:27.039
>> How? Okay. Okay. I've never talked with

00:20:27.039 --> 00:20:28.880
anybody who's who's ran that. So, tell

00:20:28.880 --> 00:20:31.840
me that tell me this process. Uh you was

00:20:31.840 --> 00:20:33.360
gas pumps your number one place you put

00:20:33.360 --> 00:20:34.480
them on or did you put them on other

00:20:34.480 --> 00:20:35.280
things?

00:20:35.280 --> 00:20:36.960
>> I mean, we had we had ones on ATM

00:20:36.960 --> 00:20:39.600
machines too uh uh back in the days too.

00:20:39.600 --> 00:20:42.000
But, uh the the problem was with them is

00:20:42.000 --> 00:20:44.159
trying to get get the uh pin recorded,

00:20:44.159 --> 00:20:47.360
right? like they didn't have the the uh

00:20:47.360 --> 00:20:49.440
3D printers now where you could print

00:20:49.440 --> 00:20:51.440
something that's looks just like it

00:20:51.440 --> 00:20:54.159
that's uh that's paper thin that you can

00:20:54.159 --> 00:20:55.280
put right over the top of it. You know,

00:20:55.280 --> 00:20:56.320
they didn't have shit like that back

00:20:56.320 --> 00:20:56.559
then.

00:20:56.559 --> 00:20:59.760
>> So, it cost $200 for one skimmer

00:20:59.760 --> 00:21:01.600
>> and that was cheap. That was cheap.

00:21:01.600 --> 00:21:02.320
>> Okay.

00:21:02.320 --> 00:21:05.360
>> They usually like 600 back then.

00:21:05.360 --> 00:21:08.400
>> Okay. So, you So, yeah. Tell me tell me

00:21:08.400 --> 00:21:09.679
about putting your first skimmer

00:21:09.679 --> 00:21:11.280
>> particular order. That particular order

00:21:11.280 --> 00:21:12.720
was the ones that are about the size of

00:21:12.720 --> 00:21:14.720
a big lighter

00:21:14.720 --> 00:21:15.760
>> and they're wireless.

00:21:15.760 --> 00:21:16.080
>> Yeah.

00:21:16.080 --> 00:21:17.919
>> And they Bluetooth on them.

00:21:17.919 --> 00:21:19.200
>> Okay. So, tell me about putting your

00:21:19.200 --> 00:21:22.159
first skimmer on a machine.

00:21:22.159 --> 00:21:23.760
>> Well, there's a gas station right around

00:21:23.760 --> 00:21:24.880
the corner from my house that I've been

00:21:24.880 --> 00:21:28.960
going to my whole life. So, uh I mean I

00:21:28.960 --> 00:21:30.159
used to like clean up the parking lot

00:21:30.159 --> 00:21:32.480
and shit when I was a kid at at this gas

00:21:32.480 --> 00:21:34.960
station. So, it's like uh they would

00:21:34.960 --> 00:21:36.000
never fuck with me about anything

00:21:36.000 --> 00:21:37.840
anyways.

00:21:37.840 --> 00:21:40.400
So I would just put it in there and let

00:21:40.400 --> 00:21:44.159
it sit for about a week.

00:21:44.159 --> 00:21:46.480
>> Yeah. You So you're not even nervous

00:21:46.480 --> 00:21:48.159
driving up to it like, "Okay, here we

00:21:48.159 --> 00:21:49.280
go. We're going to put this in." You're

00:21:49.280 --> 00:21:49.440
just like,

00:21:49.440 --> 00:21:50.559
>> "Gubad got a

00:21:50.559 --> 00:21:52.640
>> I already got the keys the for all the

00:21:52.640 --> 00:21:55.200
gas pumps." Like I live in the hood, so

00:21:55.200 --> 00:21:56.799
it's like you can get whatever you want

00:21:56.799 --> 00:21:59.600
to get into anything.

00:21:59.600 --> 00:22:01.520
>> Okay, so he leaves this skimmer on the

00:22:01.520 --> 00:22:03.679
gas pump for a few days. And in case you

00:22:03.679 --> 00:22:05.200
don't know what a skimmer is, it fits

00:22:05.200 --> 00:22:07.039
right over the credit card reader on the

00:22:07.039 --> 00:22:08.720
gas pump. So when you go to swipe your

00:22:08.720 --> 00:22:11.360
card to buy some gas, his skimmer will

00:22:11.360 --> 00:22:13.679
also read your card and save the data

00:22:13.679 --> 00:22:15.840
from it. It's meant to look just like a

00:22:15.840 --> 00:22:18.080
regular scanner on the gas pump so that

00:22:18.080 --> 00:22:19.360
you don't notice it. And this is why

00:22:19.360 --> 00:22:20.720
every time I go to swipe my card

00:22:20.720 --> 00:22:22.480
anywhere, I first grab the reader and

00:22:22.480 --> 00:22:24.159
wiggle it hard to see if it comes off

00:22:24.159 --> 00:22:26.080
because then it would be a skimmer.

00:22:26.080 --> 00:22:28.159
After a few days, he comes back and

00:22:28.159 --> 00:22:30.159
pulls it off the pump and then he has to

00:22:30.159 --> 00:22:32.000
learn how to get the data off it. Okay.

00:22:32.000 --> 00:22:34.159
So, you can either unplug it and hook it

00:22:34.159 --> 00:22:36.400
up to your uh computer USB and it just

00:22:36.400 --> 00:22:38.320
downloads just opens it up and it's just

00:22:38.320 --> 00:22:41.200
like a file or you can Bluetooth them.

00:22:41.200 --> 00:22:43.200
Then the later ones have Bluetooth. You

00:22:43.200 --> 00:22:45.600
just go Bluetooth to it. Download.

00:22:45.600 --> 00:22:47.360
>> Okay. So, when you grabbed it and you

00:22:47.360 --> 00:22:49.280
and you put connected to your computer,

00:22:49.280 --> 00:22:51.280
what'd you find?

00:22:51.280 --> 00:22:54.080
>> Track one and track two information. And

00:22:54.080 --> 00:22:55.440
bro, I had the reason they caught me

00:22:55.440 --> 00:22:58.240
with all them victims and 6,500 victims

00:22:58.240 --> 00:23:01.280
from over 100 different banks is because

00:23:01.280 --> 00:23:03.600
I was trying to crack the code, bro.

00:23:03.600 --> 00:23:06.320
Crack the code. Yeah. The algorithm. I'm

00:23:06.320 --> 00:23:07.840
trying to generate dumps.

00:23:07.840 --> 00:23:10.880
>> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, you got enough

00:23:10.880 --> 00:23:12.559
each one of them, I'd be able to figure

00:23:12.559 --> 00:23:14.000
out the the sequence. You know what I

00:23:14.000 --> 00:23:14.320
mean?

00:23:14.320 --> 00:23:16.880
>> Yeah. Cuz it's just a 16-digit number

00:23:16.880 --> 00:23:19.039
plus a CBV code. If you could if you

00:23:19.039 --> 00:23:22.799
could figure out a way to find those

00:23:22.799 --> 00:23:24.480
>> I mean they already got generators for

00:23:24.480 --> 00:23:26.240
the numbers. So if you could just find

00:23:26.240 --> 00:23:27.919
how they get out how they get the CVB

00:23:27.919 --> 00:23:29.120
code, you'd be good.

00:23:29.120 --> 00:23:30.960
>> Yeah. And that's what you were trying to

00:23:30.960 --> 00:23:31.200
do.

00:23:31.200 --> 00:23:32.880
>> That's why you need today right now

00:23:32.880 --> 00:23:33.360
today.

00:23:33.360 --> 00:23:35.280
>> So I I actually tried that same thing

00:23:35.280 --> 00:23:37.039
when I was a teenager. Like hey this is

00:23:37.039 --> 00:23:38.880
just a 16digit code. Let me just type in

00:23:38.880 --> 00:23:40.960
gibberish into this form and see if I

00:23:40.960 --> 00:23:42.640
could order shit. And of course none of

00:23:42.640 --> 00:23:44.240
it worked. And I was like okay this is

00:23:44.240 --> 00:23:45.200
beyond me.

00:23:45.200 --> 00:23:47.280
>> Big one. Well, I just was doing it at

00:23:47.280 --> 00:23:49.039
random trying to think like how how do

00:23:49.039 --> 00:23:50.559
they know if this is a real card? I'm

00:23:50.559 --> 00:23:52.159
just going to type in whatever

00:23:52.159 --> 00:23:53.679
>> and they somehow knew. But

00:23:53.679 --> 00:23:55.200
>> I always just use mom and dad's credit

00:23:55.200 --> 00:23:56.320
card to find out and then I knew the

00:23:56.320 --> 00:23:58.000
cards work like that and then so I just

00:23:58.000 --> 00:23:59.760
started stealing everybody else. No off.

00:23:59.760 --> 00:24:02.159
>> Yeah. Okay. So,

00:24:02.159 --> 00:24:03.600
>> cards like that like that.

00:24:03.600 --> 00:24:05.200
>> How many cards did you get from that gas

00:24:05.200 --> 00:24:06.880
pump?

00:24:06.880 --> 00:24:08.960
>> Oh, probably like uh 83 or something

00:24:08.960 --> 00:24:11.440
like that if I remember correctly. Dang.

00:24:11.440 --> 00:24:11.600
It

00:24:11.600 --> 00:24:13.440
>> was like for three days. Four days. And

00:24:13.440 --> 00:24:15.679
>> what' you do with those cards?

00:24:15.679 --> 00:24:17.279
I sat on them. I didn't do nothing of

00:24:17.279 --> 00:24:18.640
them. >> Why?

00:24:18.640 --> 00:24:19.600
>> I was scared.

00:24:19.600 --> 00:24:21.760
>> Yeah, they just weren't familiar enough

00:24:21.760 --> 00:24:24.559
with how all this worked. The cards they

00:24:24.559 --> 00:24:26.240
were punching in at Walmart were just

00:24:26.240 --> 00:24:27.919
random numbers that they were trying.

00:24:27.919 --> 00:24:29.760
And the dumps that they were buying,

00:24:29.760 --> 00:24:31.360
well, they knew that those were already

00:24:31.360 --> 00:24:33.360
stolen by someone else. But these cards

00:24:33.360 --> 00:24:35.279
they were skimming themselves, that's

00:24:35.279 --> 00:24:37.039
new to them. They never stole credit

00:24:37.039 --> 00:24:39.200
cards before like this. So, they just

00:24:39.200 --> 00:24:41.360
had to sit on them and let the heat cool

00:24:41.360 --> 00:24:43.520
down for a little while. We're going to

00:24:43.520 --> 00:24:45.120
take a quick ad break here, but stay

00:24:45.120 --> 00:24:47.039
with us because wherever you think this

00:24:47.039 --> 00:24:50.080
story is going, I promise you it gets

00:24:50.080 --> 00:24:52.480
way crazier than that.

00:24:52.480 --> 00:24:54.640
Okay, Chicken Express. That's that's

00:24:54.640 --> 00:24:56.640
what this chapter is called. Chicken

00:24:56.640 --> 00:24:58.559
Express. I've never been there, but I'm

00:24:58.559 --> 00:25:00.480
looking at it on Google Maps, and uh

00:25:00.480 --> 00:25:01.840
there's actually a bunch of them in

00:25:01.840 --> 00:25:03.840
Texas. It's a drive-thru fast food

00:25:03.840 --> 00:25:05.760
chicken joint. And during busy times,

00:25:05.760 --> 00:25:07.360
they have two lanes for cars to line up

00:25:07.360 --> 00:25:09.760
in. But in order to take the order from

00:25:09.760 --> 00:25:12.400
that second lane, a cashier needs to

00:25:12.400 --> 00:25:14.240
walk out to the car and take the order

00:25:14.240 --> 00:25:15.840
and then also take their money so that

00:25:15.840 --> 00:25:17.520
they can go into the building and charge

00:25:17.520 --> 00:25:20.240
the credit card or get change for them.

00:25:20.240 --> 00:25:21.919
Nathan's brother's girlfriend,

00:25:21.919 --> 00:25:25.039
Elizabeth, got a job at Chicken Express

00:25:25.039 --> 00:25:27.840
taking orders. And what he what he would

00:25:27.840 --> 00:25:31.039
do was is uh he had this little

00:25:31.039 --> 00:25:34.080
girlfriend and like you know

00:25:34.080 --> 00:25:35.760
manipulation all that bullshit. So you

00:25:35.760 --> 00:25:36.799
know how that goes.

00:25:36.799 --> 00:25:38.640
>> Yeah. Convince any woman to do whatever

00:25:38.640 --> 00:25:39.919
you want do just like they can convince

00:25:39.919 --> 00:25:41.039
every man to do what they want him to

00:25:41.039 --> 00:25:43.440
do. So

00:25:43.440 --> 00:25:45.600
she was working at Chicken Express and

00:25:45.600 --> 00:25:50.799
we're like okay. [Music]

00:25:50.799 --> 00:25:52.480
They had the skimmers from before and

00:25:52.480 --> 00:25:54.480
they were like you've got this great big

00:25:54.480 --> 00:25:57.200
apron on. put the skimmer in your front

00:25:57.200 --> 00:25:59.200
apron pocket and then when you take the

00:25:59.200 --> 00:26:00.880
person's credit card into the building

00:26:00.880 --> 00:26:03.919
to swipe it also swipe it in the skimmer

00:26:03.919 --> 00:26:05.840
in your apron. The machine to charge the

00:26:05.840 --> 00:26:07.360
card was inside the restaurant. So she

00:26:07.360 --> 00:26:09.520
would take the card, leave and come back

00:26:09.520 --> 00:26:11.360
which would give her ample opportunity

00:26:11.360 --> 00:26:13.919
to stick it in that pocket and swipe it

00:26:13.919 --> 00:26:15.360
through that skimmer cuz you it don't

00:26:15.360 --> 00:26:16.480
matter which way you go on the skimmer

00:26:16.480 --> 00:26:18.720
or anything. It's going to record it.

00:26:18.720 --> 00:26:21.120
>> All right, I get it. They basically were

00:26:21.120 --> 00:26:23.279
just grabbing a copy of everyone's

00:26:23.279 --> 00:26:25.120
credit card that came through that

00:26:25.120 --> 00:26:27.440
Chicken Express lane.

00:26:27.440 --> 00:26:29.760
Her first day doing it, she got eight

00:26:29.760 --> 00:26:33.200
cards. Not bad. But again, they're too

00:26:33.200 --> 00:26:35.440
scared to use them. They've just stolen

00:26:35.440 --> 00:26:37.600
eight cards. Take it easy. Don't do

00:26:37.600 --> 00:26:39.600
anything with it. His brother was the

00:26:39.600 --> 00:26:41.279
one who was grabbing the cards off of

00:26:41.279 --> 00:26:43.440
Elizabeth's skimmer and keeping it on

00:26:43.440 --> 00:26:44.960
his computer. He didn't want to share

00:26:44.960 --> 00:26:46.320
them with Nathan.

00:26:46.320 --> 00:26:48.400
>> Right. Well, uh, we were just going to

00:26:48.400 --> 00:26:49.840
save him up for a while. But what we

00:26:49.840 --> 00:26:51.360
really were planning was is to start

00:26:51.360 --> 00:26:52.880
selling dumps. >> Okay.

00:26:52.880 --> 00:26:54.640
>> Originally,

00:26:54.640 --> 00:26:57.279
>> but I had other ideas in my head. My

00:26:57.279 --> 00:26:58.559
little brother had his ideas. I had

00:26:58.559 --> 00:27:00.400
mine.

00:27:00.400 --> 00:27:02.640
>> Yeah. What was your brother's ideas?

00:27:02.640 --> 00:27:05.279
>> Well, he he he didn't want to use them.

00:27:05.279 --> 00:27:06.159
>> I wanted to use

00:27:06.159 --> 00:27:07.520
>> Why? Okay. I This is what I don't

00:27:07.520 --> 00:27:10.000
understand. Both of you have now spent

00:27:10.000 --> 00:27:13.440
$2,500 to buy skimmers. You've both

00:27:13.440 --> 00:27:15.679
gotten dozens of cards from it. And then

00:27:15.679 --> 00:27:17.200
you're like, "Let's not use this for

00:27:17.200 --> 00:27:19.279
anything." Well, because we didn't know

00:27:19.279 --> 00:27:21.919
nothing about that side of it, you know

00:27:21.919 --> 00:27:24.080
what I mean? Like the dump side of it.

00:27:24.080 --> 00:27:26.080
We knew what track one, track two was,

00:27:26.080 --> 00:27:27.760
and we knew how to put them on cards and

00:27:27.760 --> 00:27:29.919
we knew all that stuff, but we didn't

00:27:29.919 --> 00:27:33.120
know like none of the I guess we were

00:27:33.120 --> 00:27:35.039
trying to do OPSSEAC on it. You know

00:27:35.039 --> 00:27:37.120
what I'm saying? Like I figured out

00:27:37.120 --> 00:27:38.799
>> Yeah. Okay. Okay. So, you're just being

00:27:38.799 --> 00:27:39.600
hesitant

00:27:39.600 --> 00:27:42.080
>> if we were to use these.

00:27:42.080 --> 00:27:46.080
We we were dissecting it, hacking it,

00:27:46.080 --> 00:27:48.480
>> trying to figure out how how how their

00:27:48.480 --> 00:27:50.240
system work. We didn't know who used one

00:27:50.240 --> 00:27:51.840
of these are going to come bust busting

00:27:51.840 --> 00:27:53.520
down our door right there or not. We

00:27:53.520 --> 00:27:54.159
didn't know.

00:27:54.159 --> 00:27:56.880
>> That's right. Yeah.

00:27:56.880 --> 00:27:59.520
>> So, we were more cautious about it.

00:27:59.520 --> 00:28:01.679
>> Okay, fair enough. But she keeps

00:28:01.679 --> 00:28:03.360
skimming them.

00:28:03.360 --> 00:28:06.960
>> Yeah, she kept skimming them for months.

00:28:06.960 --> 00:28:09.120
So, they just sat on them, not sure what

00:28:09.120 --> 00:28:13.120
to do. just play it cool. Until one day,

00:28:13.120 --> 00:28:16.559
Nathan decided to use one.

00:28:16.559 --> 00:28:18.320
>> One day I used like two or three of like

00:28:18.320 --> 00:28:19.600
we were stuck somewhere or something to

00:28:19.600 --> 00:28:21.600
handle gas or something and cuz we had

00:28:21.600 --> 00:28:23.200
an elaborate setup inside a vehicle to

00:28:23.200 --> 00:28:24.960
where we can make cars on our goat.

00:28:24.960 --> 00:28:27.279
We'll get to that sooner later. Okay.

00:28:27.279 --> 00:28:29.279
But uh

00:28:29.279 --> 00:28:31.440
we we we had no dumps or we couldn't get

00:28:31.440 --> 00:28:33.200
none or we couldn't get no big uh back

00:28:33.200 --> 00:28:34.640
there was Liberty Reserve. We had no

00:28:34.640 --> 00:28:36.799
Liberty Reserve to buy any our web

00:28:36.799 --> 00:28:40.720
money. Uh, so we decided to use a couple

00:28:40.720 --> 00:28:43.279
of them and they were bangers. I'm

00:28:43.279 --> 00:28:46.880
talking about bangers. Bangers. Bangers.

00:28:46.880 --> 00:28:48.480
>> He was storing these cards in a Google

00:28:48.480 --> 00:28:50.559
doc and he took a few and got some blank

00:28:50.559 --> 00:28:53.039
credit cards and he used his MSR device

00:28:53.039 --> 00:28:55.440
to write the credit card details to the

00:28:55.440 --> 00:28:57.600
card. At first, he just tried to use it

00:28:57.600 --> 00:29:00.640
on a gas pump and it worked. He got gas

00:29:00.640 --> 00:29:02.720
with this card and then he went into a

00:29:02.720 --> 00:29:05.279
store and tried buying stuff and he says

00:29:05.279 --> 00:29:08.000
with just a few cards he was able to buy

00:29:08.000 --> 00:29:10.080
$3,000 worth of stuff.

00:29:10.080 --> 00:29:11.840
>> Like every one of them hit, bro. Every

00:29:11.840 --> 00:29:12.640
one of them hit.

00:29:12.640 --> 00:29:14.000
>> Of course they hit cuz they're cards you

00:29:14.000 --> 00:29:15.279
stole. They're fresh,

00:29:15.279 --> 00:29:16.159
>> right?

00:29:16.159 --> 00:29:17.679
>> The ones you were buying the ones you

00:29:17.679 --> 00:29:19.600
were buying online were sold to four

00:29:19.600 --> 00:29:21.279
other people before they were sold to

00:29:21.279 --> 00:29:22.080
you, right?

00:29:22.080 --> 00:29:23.360
>> Yeah. I know you didn't know that, but

00:29:23.360 --> 00:29:25.520
that's why they weren't working. Yours

00:29:25.520 --> 00:29:26.080
were fresh.

00:29:26.080 --> 00:29:27.520
>> Scammed. We probably got scammed eight

00:29:27.520 --> 00:29:28.559
times before we ever got one that

00:29:28.559 --> 00:29:28.960
worked.

00:29:28.960 --> 00:29:30.480
>> That's right. Yeah.

00:29:30.480 --> 00:29:33.039
>> You know, but yeah. So, we we didn't

00:29:33.039 --> 00:29:34.240
know that they worked like that. So,

00:29:34.240 --> 00:29:35.760
once we use them fresh ones, my brother

00:29:35.760 --> 00:29:36.640
didn't want to use no more. And I'm

00:29:36.640 --> 00:29:38.880
like, "Fuck him. I got to I'm going my

00:29:38.880 --> 00:29:40.240
my wheels are spinning in my head." And

00:29:40.240 --> 00:29:42.480
once I see the taste of money, it's like

00:29:42.480 --> 00:29:43.840
I'm not worried about pussy. I'm not

00:29:43.840 --> 00:29:45.600
worried about drugs. You ever been

00:29:45.600 --> 00:29:48.080
addicted to making money?

00:29:48.080 --> 00:29:49.279
>> Talk about being addicted to making

00:29:49.279 --> 00:29:54.399
money because it's an addiction.

00:29:54.399 --> 00:29:55.840
He had some of these cards from the

00:29:55.840 --> 00:29:57.039
skimmers that he was putting around

00:29:57.039 --> 00:29:59.200
town. But it was his brother who had the

00:29:59.200 --> 00:30:01.039
most amount of cards from all the cards

00:30:01.039 --> 00:30:02.720
his girlfriend Elizabeth was skimming at

00:30:02.720 --> 00:30:05.039
Chicken Express, but his brother wasn't

00:30:05.039 --> 00:30:07.360
sharing those cards with Nathan. And his

00:30:07.360 --> 00:30:09.360
mind was racing with how to get those

00:30:09.360 --> 00:30:10.399
from his brother.

00:30:10.399 --> 00:30:11.600
>> I don't I don't know if you how much of

00:30:11.600 --> 00:30:13.039
the federal paperwork you read or you

00:30:13.039 --> 00:30:15.760
looked anything up, but there was like u

00:30:15.760 --> 00:30:17.520
58 people they wanted to indict.

00:30:17.520 --> 00:30:18.559
>> 58.

00:30:18.559 --> 00:30:20.000
>> And they only got three of us. Well, I

00:30:20.000 --> 00:30:22.080
got four of us, but only three of us.

00:30:22.080 --> 00:30:23.440
>> Yeah. Well, you have to tell me when

00:30:23.440 --> 00:30:26.159
those other 55 come in to play cuz we've

00:30:26.159 --> 00:30:27.840
only listed three so far.

00:30:27.840 --> 00:30:29.279
>> They've they've already been involved

00:30:29.279 --> 00:30:30.960
with all that. We're already making car.

00:30:30.960 --> 00:30:32.480
Well, that by that time, we're already

00:30:32.480 --> 00:30:33.840
making cards. We're already deep in the

00:30:33.840 --> 00:30:36.080
game by then. This is when we get the

00:30:36.080 --> 00:30:37.520
fresh dumps and we're using the fresh

00:30:37.520 --> 00:30:39.200
dumps that were scammed. That's what our

00:30:39.200 --> 00:30:41.520
f started because of.

00:30:41.520 --> 00:30:44.000
>> Okay. So, the the other 50 people were

00:30:44.000 --> 00:30:46.159
involved before this.

00:30:46.159 --> 00:30:48.480
>> Not necessarily all 50 of them. Like my

00:30:48.480 --> 00:30:49.840
brother had his people and I had my

00:30:49.840 --> 00:30:51.360
people. My brother had like four or five

00:30:51.360 --> 00:30:54.640
people and then I had like 30 people.

00:30:54.640 --> 00:30:56.799
>> Okay. And and these other people, what

00:30:56.799 --> 00:30:59.039
were their roles?

00:30:59.039 --> 00:31:00.159
>> Shoppers.

00:31:00.159 --> 00:31:02.320
>> See, Nathan had a Fargo printer, which

00:31:02.320 --> 00:31:04.960
is a classic printer used to make IDs.

00:31:04.960 --> 00:31:07.600
Think membership cards or student IDs,

00:31:07.600 --> 00:31:09.919
employee badges, but he was using it to

00:31:09.919 --> 00:31:11.919
make credit cards, and he was making

00:31:11.919 --> 00:31:14.080
them look really good. I'd print the

00:31:14.080 --> 00:31:16.640
cards and then program the mag strip.

00:31:16.640 --> 00:31:19.200
And that my my my my little key trick

00:31:19.200 --> 00:31:20.399
was so they don't have to ask you for

00:31:20.399 --> 00:31:22.720
ID, just put your fucking picture in the

00:31:22.720 --> 00:31:24.720
corner of the fucking card, you know. So

00:31:24.720 --> 00:31:27.919
So you had a guy that would that you

00:31:27.919 --> 00:31:29.520
took a picture of him and you would

00:31:29.520 --> 00:31:31.760
print it on the card to make it look

00:31:31.760 --> 00:31:34.000
like a like a legitimate card as it

00:31:34.000 --> 00:31:35.279
wasn't just a blank card. You were

00:31:35.279 --> 00:31:37.039
printing on the card to make it look as

00:31:37.039 --> 00:31:38.320
good as possible.

00:31:38.320 --> 00:31:38.720
>> Yeah.

00:31:38.720 --> 00:31:40.159
>> And then he would take it in the store

00:31:40.159 --> 00:31:41.600
and like look at my picture's on the

00:31:41.600 --> 00:31:44.399
card. How how can you say that's not me?

00:31:44.399 --> 00:31:45.360
>> Exactly.

00:31:45.360 --> 00:31:47.919
>> Wow. That's uh that's going the the

00:31:47.919 --> 00:31:48.880
length there.

00:31:48.880 --> 00:31:51.760
>> Like this was like in 2008 so or seven

00:31:51.760 --> 00:31:53.440
and eight. So like nobody was doing it

00:31:53.440 --> 00:31:55.360
like that back then. So he would go

00:31:55.360 --> 00:31:56.799
around his neighborhood and hit up

00:31:56.799 --> 00:31:58.320
people he thought might want the extra

00:31:58.320 --> 00:32:00.399
cash and have them come over and then

00:32:00.399 --> 00:32:01.919
he'd make a bunch of credit cards with

00:32:01.919 --> 00:32:04.559
their photo on it and have them go out

00:32:04.559 --> 00:32:07.360
and shop with stolen credit cards and

00:32:07.360 --> 00:32:09.039
then bring back any of the stuff you buy

00:32:09.039 --> 00:32:09.679
with it.

00:32:09.679 --> 00:32:11.200
>> So what I would do since I'm providing

00:32:11.200 --> 00:32:13.279
the cards, I fig I figured the cards

00:32:13.279 --> 00:32:14.399
were if they're buying it dump and

00:32:14.399 --> 00:32:15.840
they're making the card. So, I charge

00:32:15.840 --> 00:32:18.799
$100 for a card basically, right? Okay.

00:32:18.799 --> 00:32:20.880
It's what? So, say they bring me back

00:32:20.880 --> 00:32:22.640
$3,000 worth of merchandise. I can only

00:32:22.640 --> 00:32:24.480
sell it for half price. So, it's 1,500

00:32:24.480 --> 00:32:26.399
out the gate. I'm taking 100 off for

00:32:26.399 --> 00:32:28.399
each card

00:32:28.399 --> 00:32:30.720
and I'm paying you cash the rest.

00:32:30.720 --> 00:32:33.760
>> God damn. So, people

00:32:33.760 --> 00:32:35.360
Yeah. Okay. That's a pretty good

00:32:35.360 --> 00:32:37.200
incentive for I could see why a bunch of

00:32:37.200 --> 00:32:39.039
people would want to get in on this in

00:32:39.039 --> 00:32:41.519
Texas. Well, and and and plus, you know,

00:32:41.519 --> 00:32:44.000
like I was in the hood, so everybody's

00:32:44.000 --> 00:32:46.320
broke. Nobody has nice jobs and shit

00:32:46.320 --> 00:32:48.159
like that. Their all their parents are

00:32:48.159 --> 00:32:50.480
crackheads or whores or prostitutes or

00:32:50.480 --> 00:32:52.880
pimps or the pushers. The pimps are the

00:32:52.880 --> 00:32:55.360
pushers. Okay. So, all that was going

00:32:55.360 --> 00:32:57.120
around for a while with crappy stolen

00:32:57.120 --> 00:32:58.960
credit cards. A lot that didn't work.

00:32:58.960 --> 00:33:01.200
But now Nathan is like, "Man, I'm

00:33:01.200 --> 00:33:04.000
sitting on a bunch of banger cards. It's

00:33:04.000 --> 00:33:05.679
time to start making some real money

00:33:05.679 --> 00:33:08.159
with these." But his brother was the one

00:33:08.159 --> 00:33:10.240
who had the bulk of them. and he wasn't

00:33:10.240 --> 00:33:10.960
sharing.

00:33:10.960 --> 00:33:13.120
>> So my brother didn't want to uh use him

00:33:13.120 --> 00:33:17.039
and so I hacked my brother. Fuck. I mean

00:33:17.039 --> 00:33:18.640
I hacked him and started using him.

00:33:18.640 --> 00:33:20.960
>> Wait, you hacked your brother?

00:33:20.960 --> 00:33:23.760
>> Yeah, why not?

00:33:23.760 --> 00:33:26.480
>> You got something I want?

00:33:26.480 --> 00:33:26.880
>> I mean,

00:33:26.880 --> 00:33:28.000
>> how'd you do that?

00:33:28.000 --> 00:33:29.440
>> I mean, I just got on his computer and

00:33:29.440 --> 00:33:31.840
fucking and stole his f. I knew, you

00:33:31.840 --> 00:33:33.279
know, we think it's my little brother,

00:33:33.279 --> 00:33:36.480
you know, so obviously he's uh learned

00:33:36.480 --> 00:33:38.880
from me, so he's going to think kind of

00:33:38.880 --> 00:33:40.960
like I think. So it wasn't that hard to

00:33:40.960 --> 00:33:44.080
find the text document and where was he

00:33:44.080 --> 00:33:46.559
and I' I've seen him uh you know cuz it

00:33:46.559 --> 00:33:48.559
was his girlfriend that was doing it,

00:33:48.559 --> 00:33:50.480
right? >> Yeah.

00:33:50.480 --> 00:33:53.200
>> So and then uh you know I I didn't go to

00:33:53.200 --> 00:33:55.360
prison the first time till I was 30. So

00:33:55.360 --> 00:33:57.039
I made a pretty good pile before I got

00:33:57.039 --> 00:33:58.640
in trouble.

00:33:58.640 --> 00:34:02.320
>> I did good for myself.

00:34:02.320 --> 00:34:04.480
What age do you think your uh daughter

00:34:04.480 --> 00:34:06.320
is going to be before she goes to prison

00:34:06.320 --> 00:34:07.360
for the first time?

00:34:07.360 --> 00:34:09.679
>> They're not going to prison.

00:34:09.679 --> 00:34:11.440
One of them's graduated college. The

00:34:11.440 --> 00:34:13.040
other one's in college. And my

00:34:13.040 --> 00:34:14.399
16-year-old is fixing to graduate high

00:34:14.399 --> 00:34:17.040
school with her nursing uh shit done uh

00:34:17.040 --> 00:34:18.480
this year.

00:34:18.480 --> 00:34:19.919
>> Do you have a better neighborhood that

00:34:19.919 --> 00:34:21.280
they're living in compared to where you

00:34:21.280 --> 00:34:23.280
grew up?

00:34:23.280 --> 00:34:26.079
>> Uh yeah. I mean, this I mean it's

00:34:26.079 --> 00:34:29.040
Dallas, bro. You know, it's a city. So,

00:34:29.040 --> 00:34:31.119
I mean, it's like bad shit happens

00:34:31.119 --> 00:34:33.040
everywhere.

00:34:33.040 --> 00:34:34.639
>> You you Well, you you put it as like a

00:34:34.639 --> 00:34:35.919
badge of honor. Like, man, I didn't go

00:34:35.919 --> 00:34:38.320
to prison till I was over 30, so I did

00:34:38.320 --> 00:34:39.440
pretty good.

00:34:39.440 --> 00:34:41.200
>> Most people were either dead or or or in

00:34:41.200 --> 00:34:42.560
prison by the time they're 30 in my

00:34:42.560 --> 00:34:43.919
neighborhood. I grew up in Oak Cliff,

00:34:43.919 --> 00:34:45.599
though. See, my my kids live in Dallas

00:34:45.599 --> 00:34:47.200
with their mother.

00:34:47.200 --> 00:34:47.599
>> Yeah.

00:34:47.599 --> 00:34:50.000
>> She Garland. I mean, it's it's a little

00:34:50.000 --> 00:34:51.520
better. I mean, but it's still the city,

00:34:51.520 --> 00:34:55.119
you know, that's life.

00:34:55.119 --> 00:34:56.960
>> What did What did your dad do? Like was

00:34:56.960 --> 00:34:59.520
he a a carpenter or a musician or

00:34:59.520 --> 00:35:01.040
>> installed fire systems and uh

00:35:01.040 --> 00:35:04.160
restaurants and uh paint booths?

00:35:04.160 --> 00:35:05.920
>> Did he ever break the law? Did he what

00:35:05.920 --> 00:35:07.920
was his how at what age did he go to

00:35:07.920 --> 00:35:08.720
prison?

00:35:08.720 --> 00:35:10.320
>> He went to he went to jail uh when he

00:35:10.320 --> 00:35:12.240
was a kid one time for running from the

00:35:12.240 --> 00:35:13.680
police cuz he had a race car. He had a

00:35:13.680 --> 00:35:15.520
Dodge Challenger.

00:35:15.520 --> 00:35:17.200
>> Yeah. I mean, when you say the fast

00:35:17.200 --> 00:35:19.040
life, it really does resonate with me

00:35:19.040 --> 00:35:20.880
because there is everything's just

00:35:20.880 --> 00:35:22.320
moving and changing and things are

00:35:22.320 --> 00:35:23.839
happening and it feels uncomfortable

00:35:23.839 --> 00:35:25.200
because it's like I'm not ready for

00:35:25.200 --> 00:35:26.720
this, but man, everyone else is doing

00:35:26.720 --> 00:35:28.480
it, so I better get ready for this cuz I

00:35:28.480 --> 00:35:29.520
got no choice.

00:35:29.520 --> 00:35:31.359
>> Like, it's like you're in a a tank full

00:35:31.359 --> 00:35:33.680
of sharks. So, either you become a shark

00:35:33.680 --> 00:35:36.720
or you get eaten.

00:35:36.720 --> 00:35:39.520
>> Okay, we need to get back on track. Um,

00:35:39.520 --> 00:35:41.040
all right. with with the stolen file

00:35:41.040 --> 00:35:42.960
that he got from his brother. He had a

00:35:42.960 --> 00:35:44.880
whole new chest of cards to start

00:35:44.880 --> 00:35:47.040
cracking into. And when I think about

00:35:47.040 --> 00:35:49.359
the supply chain here, it's pretty wild.

00:35:49.359 --> 00:35:51.359
Elizabeth stole these cards from people

00:35:51.359 --> 00:35:53.119
at Chicken Express and then she gave

00:35:53.119 --> 00:35:55.440
them to her boyfriend. Actually, I think

00:35:55.440 --> 00:35:57.119
uh they got married sometime in there as

00:35:57.119 --> 00:35:58.640
well. So, she gave them to her husband.

00:35:58.640 --> 00:36:00.880
Then Nathan steals the cards from him

00:36:00.880 --> 00:36:02.560
and then he prints them onto cards and

00:36:02.560 --> 00:36:04.960
gives them to shoppers and swipers. And

00:36:04.960 --> 00:36:06.560
then they go out and they buy things

00:36:06.560 --> 00:36:08.480
from the stores with them. And then they

00:36:08.480 --> 00:36:10.480
sell those things back to Nathan for 30%

00:36:10.480 --> 00:36:12.400
of its value. And then Nathan tries to

00:36:12.400 --> 00:36:14.240
sell it for 50% of its value on the

00:36:14.240 --> 00:36:16.160
streets. So Nathan was a lot of people's

00:36:16.160 --> 00:36:18.800
hookups for just halfp price stuff. But

00:36:18.800 --> 00:36:21.119
despite being complex and long, the

00:36:21.119 --> 00:36:23.359
system was working. With Nathan working

00:36:23.359 --> 00:36:25.040
with dozens of shoppers that were just

00:36:25.040 --> 00:36:26.480
going around buying stuff all the time,

00:36:26.480 --> 00:36:28.560
it was endless work for him. He was

00:36:28.560 --> 00:36:30.960
making cards all day and reselling

00:36:30.960 --> 00:36:33.599
things and buying stuff, but he was

00:36:33.599 --> 00:36:35.760
making good money doing it all. At this

00:36:35.760 --> 00:36:37.839
point, his brother realized that Nathan

00:36:37.839 --> 00:36:40.320
stole the cards and was unhappy about

00:36:40.320 --> 00:36:42.640
it, but was joining him on some of this

00:36:42.640 --> 00:36:43.359
anyway.

00:36:43.359 --> 00:36:45.599
>> He I mean, he had always joined. He He

00:36:45.599 --> 00:36:47.040
said, "I was doing too much cuz I was

00:36:47.040 --> 00:36:48.079
doing too much."

00:36:48.079 --> 00:36:49.680
>> Anyway, he didn't want to miss out on

00:36:49.680 --> 00:36:50.880
all the money that he could get from

00:36:50.880 --> 00:36:52.880
these cards that his wife stole.

00:36:52.880 --> 00:36:54.640
>> In order to be a good swiper, you got to

00:36:54.640 --> 00:36:55.599
believe in your heart and in your mind

00:36:55.599 --> 00:36:57.520
and your body that this is your credit

00:36:57.520 --> 00:37:00.079
card. This is your money. If you don't,

00:37:00.079 --> 00:37:02.800
you you won't do good. You'll be one of

00:37:02.800 --> 00:37:04.480
them people that pays for the shit and

00:37:04.480 --> 00:37:05.839
then they ask you for ID and you burn

00:37:05.839 --> 00:37:08.000
off and you just burned yourself. It's

00:37:08.000 --> 00:37:09.599
it's all about how you talk to people.

00:37:09.599 --> 00:37:11.440
It's all about your finesse game really.

00:37:11.440 --> 00:37:12.079
>> Yeah.

00:37:12.079 --> 00:37:15.040
>> And who you pick to to check you out.

00:37:15.040 --> 00:37:16.960
>> Did you teach people how to do that

00:37:16.960 --> 00:37:17.839
game?

00:37:17.839 --> 00:37:20.240
>> Yeah, you got Okay. Teach me. I want to

00:37:20.240 --> 00:37:22.480
be a I want to be a good swiper.

00:37:22.480 --> 00:37:24.000
>> Okay. So, I'm teaching you to be a

00:37:24.000 --> 00:37:25.359
swiper. We'll give you a couple fire

00:37:25.359 --> 00:37:27.520
like two or three cards, right?

00:37:27.520 --> 00:37:28.079
>> Yep.

00:37:28.079 --> 00:37:29.280
>> There you I'm going to tell you what to

00:37:29.280 --> 00:37:30.240
go in there and get. Like I'd plan

00:37:30.240 --> 00:37:31.440
people's routes out for them and

00:37:31.440 --> 00:37:32.880
everything. Like cuz back then it was

00:37:32.880 --> 00:37:35.200
Map Quest, right? I'd plan their whole

00:37:35.200 --> 00:37:36.240
route out for them, tell them what

00:37:36.240 --> 00:37:37.599
stores to go to and everything, bro. I'd

00:37:37.599 --> 00:37:39.920
have it all w down and everything. So we

00:37:39.920 --> 00:37:42.160
would go to the store and I I you would

00:37:42.160 --> 00:37:43.839
come with me first and I'd show you how

00:37:43.839 --> 00:37:45.920
I do it. I' never never look up at a

00:37:45.920 --> 00:37:48.400
camera. Never never I always wear a hat.

00:37:48.400 --> 00:37:50.160
So and I'm always looking down at my

00:37:50.160 --> 00:37:52.480
phone. Always look So always be on your

00:37:52.480 --> 00:37:54.320
phone. That was the rule number one.

00:37:54.320 --> 00:37:55.440
always be on your phone because if

00:37:55.440 --> 00:37:56.400
you're looking down at your phone,

00:37:56.400 --> 00:37:58.160
you're always going to look down, right?

00:37:58.160 --> 00:38:00.560
Yeah. So, you're not going to be looking

00:38:00.560 --> 00:38:03.359
up to where a camera can get a clear

00:38:03.359 --> 00:38:05.680
picture of your face. That's why I get

00:38:05.680 --> 00:38:08.560
my federal document documents. Uh it

00:38:08.560 --> 00:38:09.920
says two identified white males. Two

00:38:09.920 --> 00:38:10.960
identified white males. There's always

00:38:10.960 --> 00:38:13.359
me and my brother.

00:38:13.359 --> 00:38:15.280
Yep. But it was under two identified

00:38:15.280 --> 00:38:17.440
white males. That's all it was. Always

00:38:17.440 --> 00:38:19.680
cover up all your tattoos.

00:38:19.680 --> 00:38:22.079
>> Wear black. Wear a hat.

00:38:22.079 --> 00:38:23.839
you know, things that are going to uh

00:38:23.839 --> 00:38:26.320
uh, you know, make it not so obvious of

00:38:26.320 --> 00:38:28.640
who you are, but without not making it

00:38:28.640 --> 00:38:30.560
so obvious that you're hiding your

00:38:30.560 --> 00:38:33.119
identity, right? >> Yep.

00:38:33.119 --> 00:38:35.280
>> Uh, I like I like when I when I go get

00:38:35.280 --> 00:38:37.920
gift cards, I'd like uh putting on some

00:38:37.920 --> 00:38:40.000
coveralls and getting them all dirty and

00:38:40.000 --> 00:38:41.359
shit. Look like I've been working on oil

00:38:41.359 --> 00:38:43.680
rig all day and I'm coming here to get

00:38:43.680 --> 00:38:47.440
$2500 gift cards for my workers cuz they

00:38:47.440 --> 00:38:49.280
passed a safety test.

00:38:49.280 --> 00:38:50.640
>> Yeah.

00:38:50.640 --> 00:38:52.640
So then it doesn't look so obvious. Then

00:38:52.640 --> 00:38:54.640
my brother's got covers with me. He's

00:38:54.640 --> 00:38:57.839
with me. My card don't work, right?

00:38:57.839 --> 00:38:59.839
Yeah. Bro, your money get on your card

00:38:59.839 --> 00:39:01.760
yet? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. My money got on

00:39:01.760 --> 00:39:03.119
my car. Pay for my shit, bro. And as

00:39:03.119 --> 00:39:05.200
soon as my shit gets on there, I'll pay

00:39:05.200 --> 00:39:07.839
I'll pay you back. So we're He's at one

00:39:07.839 --> 00:39:09.119
register and I'm at the next register.

00:39:09.119 --> 00:39:10.160
We're working together at the same time

00:39:10.160 --> 00:39:12.480
still, too. >> Yeah.

00:39:12.480 --> 00:39:14.320
>> So we're banging them double, bro. Like

00:39:14.320 --> 00:39:16.640
we like when I was doing that throw, I I

00:39:16.640 --> 00:39:19.599
went to I went to all the way to

00:39:19.599 --> 00:39:22.320
Missouri and back down and got like

00:39:22.320 --> 00:39:23.920
$30,000 worth of gift cards. The dude

00:39:23.920 --> 00:39:25.520
sold them uh they were like they're for

00:39:25.520 --> 00:39:28.320
eBay and PayPal and he ended up buying a

00:39:28.320 --> 00:39:31.839
vet with them uh off eBay.

00:39:31.839 --> 00:39:34.160
>> So over time the shoppers and Swipers

00:39:34.160 --> 00:39:36.160
and his network would be bringing him

00:39:36.160 --> 00:39:38.400
tons of stuff. A lot was gift cards, but

00:39:38.400 --> 00:39:40.240
sometimes it was TVs and laptops and

00:39:40.240 --> 00:39:42.240
video game consoles, anything that would

00:39:42.240 --> 00:39:44.480
have a high resale value. What I do is

00:39:44.480 --> 00:39:46.800
I'd have a storage and I'd fill it up

00:39:46.800 --> 00:39:48.880
and uh there's pictures of it in my

00:39:48.880 --> 00:39:50.880
discovery packet. And I'd fill it up and

00:39:50.880 --> 00:39:53.359
then I had a couple of Mexicans that are

00:39:53.359 --> 00:39:54.880
cartel. They take all this shit back to

00:39:54.880 --> 00:39:56.960
Mexico. Bro, they'll buy that shit for

00:39:56.960 --> 00:39:58.400
cash cuz it's easier to transport that

00:39:58.400 --> 00:40:01.040
shit across the border than it is cash.

00:40:01.040 --> 00:40:02.000
You're not going to lose it getting

00:40:02.000 --> 00:40:03.599
across the border. They'll be able to

00:40:03.599 --> 00:40:05.680
drive right across. It's crazy how much

00:40:05.680 --> 00:40:08.079
logistics went into his operation, but

00:40:08.079 --> 00:40:09.200
the more cards he would get from

00:40:09.200 --> 00:40:10.640
skimming, the more cards he could just

00:40:10.640 --> 00:40:13.040
print and then give to shoppers and they

00:40:13.040 --> 00:40:14.800
would be constantly bringing him stuff.

00:40:14.800 --> 00:40:16.320
He had it all dialed in.

00:40:16.320 --> 00:40:18.000
>> Bro, at the end of it, I was making like

00:40:18.000 --> 00:40:21.280
$5,000 cash a day profit.

00:40:21.280 --> 00:40:23.440
>> But of course, in the wake of all his

00:40:23.440 --> 00:40:25.440
activity, it would mean that tons of

00:40:25.440 --> 00:40:28.400
cars were reported stolen and purchases

00:40:28.400 --> 00:40:30.800
were traced to certain locations and

00:40:30.800 --> 00:40:32.320
authorities started putting pieces

00:40:32.320 --> 00:40:34.560
together. Napa, Texas, bro. So basically

00:40:34.560 --> 00:40:36.240
half the United States.

00:40:36.240 --> 00:40:38.320
This article says, "This case is being

00:40:38.320 --> 00:40:40.240
investigated by the Tyler Police

00:40:40.240 --> 00:40:42.320
Department, US Secret Service, the Smith

00:40:42.320 --> 00:40:44.000
County Sheriff's Office, the Henderson

00:40:44.000 --> 00:40:45.680
County Sheriff's Office, the Athens

00:40:45.680 --> 00:40:47.599
Police Department, the Ky City Police

00:40:47.599 --> 00:40:48.880
Department, the Long View Police

00:40:48.880 --> 00:40:50.160
Department, the Mosquite Police

00:40:50.160 --> 00:40:51.680
Department, the Terrell Police

00:40:51.680 --> 00:40:53.599
Department, the Waco Police Department,

00:40:53.599 --> 00:40:55.599
the Corsican Police Department, the

00:40:55.599 --> 00:40:59.040
Waxachi Police Department, the Vanzant

00:40:59.040 --> 00:41:01.760
County Precinct for Constable, Walmart

00:41:01.760 --> 00:41:03.920
Stores Associate Asset Protection, and

00:41:03.920 --> 00:41:06.720
Southside bank.

00:41:06.720 --> 00:41:10.560
>> Yeah, it's crazy, right?

00:41:10.560 --> 00:41:12.160
>> It wasn't too hard for them to all look

00:41:12.160 --> 00:41:14.079
at the cards for a common purchase

00:41:14.079 --> 00:41:16.000
point, which would indicate where they

00:41:16.000 --> 00:41:17.839
were likely stolen. And the cops saw

00:41:17.839 --> 00:41:19.920
that Chicken Express and gas pumps were

00:41:19.920 --> 00:41:21.280
where these cards were getting stolen

00:41:21.280 --> 00:41:23.599
from. Eventually, this meant the cops

00:41:23.599 --> 00:41:26.400
had an arrest warrant for Nathan. And it

00:41:26.400 --> 00:41:27.839
didn't seem like they knew exactly what

00:41:27.839 --> 00:41:30.079
he was up to, but they had a strong

00:41:30.079 --> 00:41:31.599
suspicion that he was doing something

00:41:31.599 --> 00:41:34.000
wrong. And for some reason, right around

00:41:34.000 --> 00:41:35.680
this time, Nathan broke up with his

00:41:35.680 --> 00:41:38.000
wife. They got a divorce and she was the

00:41:38.000 --> 00:41:40.160
mother of his kids. She wasn't clean

00:41:40.160 --> 00:41:41.599
from crime herself, though. She got

00:41:41.599 --> 00:41:43.040
caught punching in those credit cards at

00:41:43.040 --> 00:41:44.800
Walmart, remember? And the police gave

00:41:44.800 --> 00:41:46.800
her a stern talking to for that one. But

00:41:46.800 --> 00:41:48.400
for whatever reason, the two of them

00:41:48.400 --> 00:41:50.160
broke up and we're done with that

00:41:50.160 --> 00:41:52.079
relationship. I had I met this bad

00:41:52.079 --> 00:41:53.440
bitch, bro. So, I had a bitch living at

00:41:53.440 --> 00:41:55.119
the house with me and I met this bad

00:41:55.119 --> 00:41:56.400
bitch, bro. So, I bring a bad bitch home

00:41:56.400 --> 00:41:57.839
with me and kick my other bitch out the

00:41:57.839 --> 00:42:00.960
night before, bro, that I got raided.

00:42:00.960 --> 00:42:02.560
Bro, these So, I'm in I'm in there

00:42:02.560 --> 00:42:03.839
making some cards this morning. It's

00:42:03.839 --> 00:42:05.440
like six o'clock in the morning, bro.

00:42:05.440 --> 00:42:07.760
And uh the dude comes over from across

00:42:07.760 --> 00:42:09.119
the street to get some cards. Making

00:42:09.119 --> 00:42:13.200
some cards. Five minutes later, bro,

00:42:13.200 --> 00:42:14.480
I hear his bang on the door and they

00:42:14.480 --> 00:42:16.160
kicking the door. I fucking throw the

00:42:16.160 --> 00:42:17.680
laptop on the floor and I jump up. He's

00:42:17.680 --> 00:42:19.680
in there. And I come in I come into the

00:42:19.680 --> 00:42:20.880
living room. They fucking got a gun in

00:42:20.880 --> 00:42:22.240
my goddamn daughter's head, bro. She's

00:42:22.240 --> 00:42:23.520
like 5 years old, bro.

00:42:23.520 --> 00:42:23.839
>> What?

00:42:23.839 --> 00:42:25.200
>> And fucking they're telling me to get

00:42:25.200 --> 00:42:26.160
down on the ground, bro. I said, "Get

00:42:26.160 --> 00:42:27.440
that fucking gun out my daughter's face,

00:42:27.440 --> 00:42:29.839
you fucking bitch." I'm I'm like I'm

00:42:29.839 --> 00:42:31.200
outra, bro. like I'm already freaking

00:42:31.200 --> 00:42:32.640
the fuck out.

00:42:32.640 --> 00:42:34.560
>> His girlfriend and dad come home and

00:42:34.560 --> 00:42:36.560
they see Nathan in handcuffs in the

00:42:36.560 --> 00:42:37.760
front yard.

00:42:37.760 --> 00:42:39.280
>> The Secret Service, they they start

00:42:39.280 --> 00:42:40.960
asking me questions. I I'm like, I ain't

00:42:40.960 --> 00:42:43.200
got nothing to say. And I'm like, well,

00:42:43.200 --> 00:42:44.800
they found stolen motorcycles here,

00:42:44.800 --> 00:42:48.560
drugs, uh everything, deleting credit

00:42:48.560 --> 00:42:50.240
cards. Uh they raided the neighbor's

00:42:50.240 --> 00:42:51.280
house across the street that snitched on

00:42:51.280 --> 00:42:53.440
me. They found a fucking baby white uh

00:42:53.440 --> 00:42:56.240
container with like 1,000 cards in it.

00:42:56.240 --> 00:42:58.079
Uh they put them all on the news. They

00:42:58.079 --> 00:43:01.040
have pictures of them all all out on a

00:43:01.040 --> 00:43:02.880
table like they fucking you know how

00:43:02.880 --> 00:43:04.319
they do they parade that shit around

00:43:04.319 --> 00:43:06.160
like they did something good.

00:43:06.160 --> 00:43:07.440
>> Yeah.

00:43:07.440 --> 00:43:08.960
>> I I was just a modern day Robin Hood

00:43:08.960 --> 00:43:11.040
bro.

00:43:11.040 --> 00:43:14.720
That's all. Oscar from the rich.

00:43:14.720 --> 00:43:17.200
>> You were not the Robin Hood. You weren't

00:43:17.200 --> 00:43:18.880
giving You weren't giving anything to

00:43:18.880 --> 00:43:20.400
the poor. You were the one making all

00:43:20.400 --> 00:43:21.760
the money. You were like I want more

00:43:21.760 --> 00:43:22.800
money. I want more money.

00:43:22.800 --> 00:43:24.079
>> See, it looks like I made all the money

00:43:24.079 --> 00:43:25.359
because I had so many people working for

00:43:25.359 --> 00:43:26.960
me. But everybody else made just as much

00:43:26.960 --> 00:43:28.960
money as I did.

00:43:28.960 --> 00:43:31.680
>> So the cops continued to question him,

00:43:31.680 --> 00:43:33.680
but he just kept quiet the whole time.

00:43:33.680 --> 00:43:35.839
They told him, "Look, if you tell us the

00:43:35.839 --> 00:43:37.760
names of everyone involved, then we'll

00:43:37.760 --> 00:43:40.240
let you go." But he didn't say anything.

00:43:40.240 --> 00:43:42.160
He didn't give up anyone's names. And

00:43:42.160 --> 00:43:43.520
I'm not sure if they even knew he was

00:43:43.520 --> 00:43:45.119
the ring leader of all this or not.

00:43:45.119 --> 00:43:46.640
>> They were like, "Well, uh, we don't have

00:43:46.640 --> 00:43:47.839
anything to charge you with today. All

00:43:47.839 --> 00:43:48.960
we have is a search warrant. Uh, you'll

00:43:48.960 --> 00:43:50.240
be receiving an indictment at a later

00:43:50.240 --> 00:43:52.240
date." And left.

00:43:52.240 --> 00:43:54.079
>> And you they they didn't take you. They

00:43:54.079 --> 00:43:55.680
just left you. take nobody to jail. They

00:43:55.680 --> 00:43:56.720
tried they were trying to take my

00:43:56.720 --> 00:43:58.160
Escalade, but they couldn't take my

00:43:58.160 --> 00:44:01.920
Escalade because it wasn't in my name.

00:44:01.920 --> 00:44:03.280
>> Never put nothing in my name.

00:44:03.280 --> 00:44:05.200
>> Thank God.

00:44:05.200 --> 00:44:07.440
>> So, okay. So, what kind of cars did you

00:44:07.440 --> 00:44:08.720
have at the time?

00:44:08.720 --> 00:44:11.119
>> I had a Jaguar, a Lexus, and a uh Kadak

00:44:11.119 --> 00:44:12.319
Escalade.

00:44:12.319 --> 00:44:14.240
>> Yeah. And they didn't they couldn't take

00:44:14.240 --> 00:44:15.440
any of the cars?

00:44:15.440 --> 00:44:17.040
>> No. My Lexus was in my best friend's

00:44:17.040 --> 00:44:18.640
name. The Escalade was in the cop's name

00:44:18.640 --> 00:44:20.400
I bought it from, and my Jaguar is in my

00:44:20.400 --> 00:44:21.520
the home boy's name.

00:44:21.520 --> 00:44:23.200
>> So, you were you were buying cars with

00:44:23.200 --> 00:44:24.640
this? What else were you pay doing with

00:44:24.640 --> 00:44:25.599
the money?

00:44:25.599 --> 00:44:28.000
>> Oh, we buy electronics. Uh jewelry. I

00:44:28.000 --> 00:44:30.640
had lots of jewelry and lots of guns.

00:44:30.640 --> 00:44:33.040
>> Mhm. Drugs.

00:44:33.040 --> 00:44:35.200
>> Oh, yeah. Lots of drugs.

00:44:35.200 --> 00:44:37.040
>> Yeah. I always had drug.

00:44:37.040 --> 00:44:37.599
>> Yeah. >> What?

00:44:37.599 --> 00:44:40.800
>> Of course. What? Sorry to ask.

00:44:40.800 --> 00:44:42.240
>> When they took me out for Rivlin, what

00:44:42.240 --> 00:44:43.359
else did I have to do besides

00:44:43.359 --> 00:44:44.319
self-medicate?

00:44:44.319 --> 00:44:46.480
>> Yeah, they were. They gave you drugs at

00:44:46.480 --> 00:44:47.119
the beginning.

00:44:47.119 --> 00:44:49.359
>> Methamphetamines when I was 6 years old.

00:44:49.359 --> 00:44:51.040
What did they expect me to turn into?

00:44:51.040 --> 00:44:53.040
The cops did take all the blank cards,

00:44:53.040 --> 00:44:55.599
the gift cards, writers, and stuff that

00:44:55.599 --> 00:44:57.760
looked illegal. I saw a picture of it.

00:44:57.760 --> 00:44:59.599
They laid it all out on a table for the

00:44:59.599 --> 00:45:02.160
media to see. One picture I counted,

00:45:02.160 --> 00:45:05.040
over 200 gift cards just spread out all

00:45:05.040 --> 00:45:07.359
over the table. And at the time, he was

00:45:07.359 --> 00:45:08.560
still living with his parents, his mom

00:45:08.560 --> 00:45:10.960
and dad, and his kids. His little

00:45:10.960 --> 00:45:12.720
brother was living there, but his

00:45:12.720 --> 00:45:14.079
brother got a sense that Nathan was

00:45:14.079 --> 00:45:16.240
doing just too much and was going to

00:45:16.240 --> 00:45:18.000
move out. And his brother was still mad

00:45:18.000 --> 00:45:20.240
that he stole a file off his computer.

00:45:20.240 --> 00:45:21.839
He's mad as fuck.

00:45:21.839 --> 00:45:23.280
>> Even though his brother did some of this

00:45:23.280 --> 00:45:25.280
activity himself, too, there was just

00:45:25.280 --> 00:45:26.960
too much going on for him. It was

00:45:26.960 --> 00:45:28.560
getting too hot. And his little brother

00:45:28.560 --> 00:45:30.480
moved out just before the cops raided

00:45:30.480 --> 00:45:31.119
the place.

00:45:31.119 --> 00:45:32.640
>> Uh he he wasn't here, bro. He already

00:45:32.640 --> 00:45:34.000
broke off cuz he said I was doing too

00:45:34.000 --> 00:45:36.000
much. I mean, ultimately, we would have

00:45:36.000 --> 00:45:37.839
got caught anyways. I just kind of put

00:45:37.839 --> 00:45:39.200
us in the HO lane and got us there

00:45:39.200 --> 00:45:39.839
quicker.

00:45:39.839 --> 00:45:41.680
>> Yeah. But their past of punching in

00:45:41.680 --> 00:45:43.359
credit cards at stores, buying dumps

00:45:43.359 --> 00:45:45.119
online, and getting dozens of people to

00:45:45.119 --> 00:45:47.920
help be shoppers, they were doomed from

00:45:47.920 --> 00:45:50.079
that alone. the Chicken Express cards

00:45:50.079 --> 00:45:52.160
that they were using like this, it just

00:45:52.160 --> 00:45:53.839
sped up the process of them getting

00:45:53.839 --> 00:45:54.480
caught.

00:45:54.480 --> 00:45:56.960
>> So, after they raided us, I had $20,000

00:45:56.960 --> 00:45:58.640
stash that they didn't find. It was in a

00:45:58.640 --> 00:46:00.000
fucking uh one of them big flashlights

00:46:00.000 --> 00:46:01.599
that has nine the big big square

00:46:01.599 --> 00:46:04.160
batteries in it. Had five rolls of

00:46:04.160 --> 00:46:06.240
$5,000 piece wrapped up rubber band in

00:46:06.240 --> 00:46:07.920
there in my dad's room. Didn't search.

00:46:07.920 --> 00:46:09.280
They didn't search my parents room at

00:46:09.280 --> 00:46:10.079
all.

00:46:10.079 --> 00:46:11.920
>> Okay. All right. So, what did you do

00:46:11.920 --> 00:46:14.079
after that? You stopped cold turkey. You

00:46:14.079 --> 00:46:17.040
became a good boy. No, I smashed the gas

00:46:17.040 --> 00:46:20.640
on that bitch ass.

00:46:20.640 --> 00:46:22.000
But the cops are already after me. They

00:46:22.000 --> 00:46:23.839
already know what I'm doing. The fuck am

00:46:23.839 --> 00:46:25.440
I going to stop for? I'm already in

00:46:25.440 --> 00:46:26.480
trouble. Marty car.

00:46:26.480 --> 00:46:27.280
>> I'm like,

00:46:27.280 --> 00:46:28.560
>> oh my god.

00:46:28.560 --> 00:46:30.160
>> I'm I'm like what? I'm an Aquarius for

00:46:30.160 --> 00:46:32.000
one. So it's like I'm I'm all or

00:46:32.000 --> 00:46:33.680
nothing. I'm I'm going to give it 110%

00:46:33.680 --> 00:46:37.280
or I'm going to give it no percent.

00:46:37.280 --> 00:46:42.319
Same thing I do with my relationships.

00:46:42.319 --> 00:46:43.920
But it go all go back to the childhood

00:46:43.920 --> 00:46:44.880
still like you were talking about

00:46:44.880 --> 00:46:47.119
earlier. You know it's you apply you

00:46:47.119 --> 00:46:51.839
apply what you learned to everything.

00:46:51.839 --> 00:46:54.800
>> So what he knows is how to make money

00:46:54.800 --> 00:46:57.440
and be invisible. So he grabs the

00:46:57.440 --> 00:46:59.760
$20,000 and goes on the run. Probably

00:46:59.760 --> 00:47:02.480
like 3 days later, I went to Dallas and

00:47:02.480 --> 00:47:04.400
uh I got me I got me a I was staying at

00:47:04.400 --> 00:47:06.880
hotels uh at first and then I got me a

00:47:06.880 --> 00:47:09.200
spot little house uh that I was able to

00:47:09.200 --> 00:47:10.960
rent somebody else's name electricity

00:47:10.960 --> 00:47:12.880
and shit going on somebody else's name

00:47:12.880 --> 00:47:15.839
all that and uh started making credit

00:47:15.839 --> 00:47:17.440
cards there. My homeboy, my right-hand

00:47:17.440 --> 00:47:20.079
man that lived with me, he sold drugs, I

00:47:20.079 --> 00:47:22.640
sold credit cards. So I never had to buy

00:47:22.640 --> 00:47:25.119
drugs anymore and he never had to buy

00:47:25.119 --> 00:47:26.960
credit cards no more. Worked out. Now,

00:47:26.960 --> 00:47:28.800
during that time, the police were also

00:47:28.800 --> 00:47:30.720
looking for his brother, but he was

00:47:30.720 --> 00:47:33.760
hiding out, too. But one day, his

00:47:33.760 --> 00:47:35.599
brother made a mistake with one of the

00:47:35.599 --> 00:47:38.240
stolen credit cards. Okay, I I have it

00:47:38.240 --> 00:47:40.640
in my notes that he was at an arcade

00:47:40.640 --> 00:47:42.400
messing around with quarters.

00:47:42.400 --> 00:47:44.319
>> They got like $200 worth of quarters at

00:47:44.319 --> 00:47:46.160
the fucking uh automated quarter machine

00:47:46.160 --> 00:47:47.920
with a credit card.

00:47:47.920 --> 00:47:49.760
>> With a stolen credit card?

00:47:49.760 --> 00:47:50.400
>> Yeah.

00:47:50.400 --> 00:47:54.480
>> And wh why was this suspicious at all?

00:47:54.480 --> 00:47:56.160
Because people don't buy $200 worth of

00:47:56.160 --> 00:47:57.200
quarters.

00:47:57.200 --> 00:47:58.960
>> I mean, uh, not and put them in their

00:47:58.960 --> 00:47:59.760
pocket and leave.

00:47:59.760 --> 00:48:01.359
>> Well, how would you put $200 worth of

00:48:01.359 --> 00:48:03.280
quarters in your pocket? It is. I guess

00:48:03.280 --> 00:48:04.079
you're right.

00:48:04.079 --> 00:48:06.400
>> I would have been playing video games.

00:48:06.400 --> 00:48:09.440
>> So, he just goes into the arcade, grabs

00:48:09.440 --> 00:48:11.119
$200 worth of quarters, and is like, I'm

00:48:11.119 --> 00:48:13.440
good to see you.

00:48:13.440 --> 00:48:16.800
And the mall worker calls the cops.

00:48:16.800 --> 00:48:19.280
Yeah. And says, "This guy's weird. He

00:48:19.280 --> 00:48:21.040
put he just bought $200 worth of coins

00:48:21.040 --> 00:48:22.720
and he's leaving quarters."

00:48:22.720 --> 00:48:24.079
>> He He went shopping, too. We had a whole

00:48:24.079 --> 00:48:25.440
bunch of shit under the car outside the

00:48:25.440 --> 00:48:26.880
mall. Had a whole bunch of shit under

00:48:26.880 --> 00:48:28.160
the car that he had been shopping in

00:48:28.160 --> 00:48:29.040
there all day, too.

00:48:29.040 --> 00:48:30.559
>> Just follow the trail of quarters

00:48:30.559 --> 00:48:34.880
through the mall. You'll catch them.

00:48:34.880 --> 00:48:37.200
>> Like, shit, that's easy $200.

00:48:37.200 --> 00:48:38.400
That's like the Mac that let you get out

00:48:38.400 --> 00:48:39.280
per card.

00:48:39.280 --> 00:48:41.200
>> So, this is how his brother got caught.

00:48:41.200 --> 00:48:43.359
And since they caught him in the act,

00:48:43.359 --> 00:48:45.040
they took him right to jail.

00:48:45.040 --> 00:48:46.720
>> So, they ended up catching my brother

00:48:46.720 --> 00:48:49.359
probably around November. And they got

00:48:49.359 --> 00:48:50.960
arrested in Dallas. And I was I had

00:48:50.960 --> 00:48:52.160
already knew a bondsman. So, I called

00:48:52.160 --> 00:48:53.599
the bondsman. had the boss to go get him

00:48:53.599 --> 00:48:55.359
right out and he got out.

00:48:55.359 --> 00:48:57.599
>> His brother was out of jail, but not for

00:48:57.599 --> 00:48:59.440
long. Stealing from the mall is one

00:48:59.440 --> 00:49:01.040
thing, but running a huge stolen credit

00:49:01.040 --> 00:49:02.880
card ring is another. So, the feds came

00:49:02.880 --> 00:49:04.720
and arrested his brother and took him to

00:49:04.720 --> 00:49:05.920
jail a week later.

00:49:05.920 --> 00:49:07.119
>> Oh, they I couldn't bought him out the

00:49:07.119 --> 00:49:09.119
feds. When the feds got him and the US

00:49:09.119 --> 00:49:11.359
Marshall detainer was on him, he ain't

00:49:11.359 --> 00:49:12.640
no bonding out the feds, bro. I had

00:49:12.640 --> 00:49:14.000
$100,000 cash. I tried to get him out

00:49:14.000 --> 00:49:15.520
and they told me I was fucked. So, I end

00:49:15.520 --> 00:49:17.359
up paying $20,000 for a federal lawyer.

00:49:17.359 --> 00:49:18.319
That was the biggest waste of money

00:49:18.319 --> 00:49:22.960
ever. So, your brother's stuck in jail?

00:49:22.960 --> 00:49:23.920
>> I can't get him out.

00:49:23.920 --> 00:49:25.280
>> You can't get him out?

00:49:25.280 --> 00:49:26.720
>> I mean, you know, this is my best

00:49:26.720 --> 00:49:28.880
friend, you know.

00:49:28.880 --> 00:49:30.640
>> My my first best friend was my sister.

00:49:30.640 --> 00:49:32.079
She died when I was 13. She was killed

00:49:32.079 --> 00:49:33.280
in a drunk driving accident.

00:49:33.280 --> 00:49:33.599
>> Oh, no.

00:49:33.599 --> 00:49:35.200
>> So, then my little brother became my

00:49:35.200 --> 00:49:36.559
best friend, you know.

00:49:36.559 --> 00:49:39.920
>> So, was she uh a drunk driver hit her?

00:49:39.920 --> 00:49:40.720
>> Yeah.

00:49:40.720 --> 00:49:42.400
>> Were you in the car, too?

00:49:42.400 --> 00:49:44.480
>> No, it was her, her boyfriend, and then

00:49:44.480 --> 00:49:46.079
two other people in the other vehicle.

00:49:46.079 --> 00:49:49.119
All four of them were intoxicated.

00:49:49.119 --> 00:49:51.200
Your sister was intoxicated, too?

00:49:51.200 --> 00:49:53.200
>> Yeah, she was underage and she uh like I

00:49:53.200 --> 00:49:54.800
got we won a $5 million lawsuit against

00:49:54.800 --> 00:49:56.160
Dennis Rodman, bro, but it was under

00:49:56.160 --> 00:49:58.720
LLC, so we don't get another money.

00:49:58.720 --> 00:50:00.800
>> Wait, how does Dennis Rodman come into

00:50:00.800 --> 00:50:02.240
this story?

00:50:02.240 --> 00:50:03.760
>> Well, it's not into the story. It's into

00:50:03.760 --> 00:50:05.359
the story my sister died. He owned the

00:50:05.359 --> 00:50:07.280
bar that they were at drinking underage

00:50:07.280 --> 00:50:09.440
and we investigator that went there. We

00:50:09.440 --> 00:50:11.119
got video of it and shit and we went in

00:50:11.119 --> 00:50:13.440
in court.

00:50:13.440 --> 00:50:15.359
>> Okay. So, was it the car that your

00:50:15.359 --> 00:50:16.960
sister was in that was the drunk driver

00:50:16.960 --> 00:50:19.520
or was it the other car?

00:50:19.520 --> 00:50:20.319
>> Both of them.

00:50:20.319 --> 00:50:21.440
>> Oh, okay.

00:50:21.440 --> 00:50:23.599
>> But everybody was drunk in both cars.

00:50:23.599 --> 00:50:26.960
>> Holy cow. What a what a awful situation

00:50:26.960 --> 00:50:29.839
that is to lose your sister at 13.

00:50:29.839 --> 00:50:31.839
>> Yeah, it was that was that was probably

00:50:31.839 --> 00:50:34.000
my first like real traumatic event in my

00:50:34.000 --> 00:50:36.000
life. And that's when I started using

00:50:36.000 --> 00:50:37.440
drugs. That's when I blamed God for

00:50:37.440 --> 00:50:38.559
everything. That's why you know what I

00:50:38.559 --> 00:50:41.280
mean? Like that's when my life really

00:50:41.280 --> 00:50:43.359
took a turn for the worst.

00:50:43.359 --> 00:50:45.440
>> Really?

00:50:45.440 --> 00:50:47.440
Yeah. They hit you hard.

00:50:47.440 --> 00:50:49.680
>> Yeah. I mean I I you know getting a

00:50:49.680 --> 00:50:51.599
getting a a knock on the door at 4:00 in

00:50:51.599 --> 00:50:52.960
the morning and two police officers

00:50:52.960 --> 00:50:54.880
being there and you're you're 13 years

00:50:54.880 --> 00:50:56.240
old and you're answering the door with

00:50:56.240 --> 00:50:58.160
your mom and dad cuz somebody's beating

00:50:58.160 --> 00:51:00.559
on the door at 4:00 in the morning and

00:51:00.559 --> 00:51:04.319
then you hearing this.

00:51:04.319 --> 00:51:09.200
So, it's like, uh, yeah,

00:51:09.200 --> 00:51:10.800
our parents didn't know how to deal with

00:51:10.800 --> 00:51:12.640
losing a kid, so how could they help us

00:51:12.640 --> 00:51:14.800
cope with losing a sister?

00:51:14.800 --> 00:51:16.240
>> Yeah. Right. They're probably losing

00:51:16.240 --> 00:51:17.119
their mind.

00:51:17.119 --> 00:51:18.800
>> They don't They're griefing. They They

00:51:18.800 --> 00:51:20.480
can't help you, right? You're I didn't

00:51:20.480 --> 00:51:21.280
do that.

00:51:21.280 --> 00:51:22.720
>> Like, what are they going to do to tell

00:51:22.720 --> 00:51:24.480
what are they going to do to help us?

00:51:24.480 --> 00:51:26.240
>> So, you had to find your own way, which

00:51:26.240 --> 00:51:27.599
is drugs,

00:51:27.599 --> 00:51:32.240
>> right? That was my escape.

00:51:32.240 --> 00:51:36.480
>> God damn. my escape from reality.

00:51:36.480 --> 00:51:37.839
And then once I figured out the how to

00:51:37.839 --> 00:51:40.160
escape from reality, I mean, you escape

00:51:40.160 --> 00:51:42.800
from reality forever.

00:51:42.800 --> 00:51:44.880
>> And then this time I've been sober like

00:51:44.880 --> 00:51:46.400
five months.

00:51:46.400 --> 00:51:47.839
>> You've been sober right now for the last

00:51:47.839 --> 00:51:49.280
5 months. >> Yeah.

00:51:49.280 --> 00:51:52.480
>> Oh, good for you. Wow, that's hard.

00:51:52.480 --> 00:51:54.079
>> You know, it took me losing probably the

00:51:54.079 --> 00:51:55.520
love of my life to uh figure that out.

00:51:55.520 --> 00:51:56.880
>> Wait, hold on. We started this call. You

00:51:56.880 --> 00:51:59.040
told me you had a bong in front of you.

00:51:59.040 --> 00:52:03.210
>> I do. I just say I smoke weed.

00:52:03.210 --> 00:52:10.800
[Laughter]

00:52:10.800 --> 00:52:13.210
What are you smoking?

00:52:13.210 --> 00:52:20.079
[Music] [Laughter]

00:52:20.079 --> 00:52:23.280
>> I don't know what to believe with you.

00:52:23.280 --> 00:52:27.119
>> Believe I just took a bong grip.

00:52:27.119 --> 00:52:30.319
>> Sober for five months.

00:52:30.319 --> 00:52:34.400
Yeah. >> Okay. So, um

00:52:34.400 --> 00:52:37.599
so your brother's in jail. You're uh

00:52:37.599 --> 00:52:39.839
you're stressed out on this. You're

00:52:39.839 --> 00:52:43.119
hiding out from the cops.

00:52:43.119 --> 00:52:45.440
Are are you missing from the cops or

00:52:45.440 --> 00:52:46.800
like are they asking you to come to

00:52:46.800 --> 00:52:48.240
court and you're like, "Nope, I'm not

00:52:48.240 --> 00:52:49.119
coming.

00:52:49.119 --> 00:52:51.359
>> I'm wanting." So, my brother's baby

00:52:51.359 --> 00:52:53.680
mama, the uh Elizabeth, she's staying

00:52:53.680 --> 00:52:55.680
with my cousin in another house in Oak

00:52:55.680 --> 00:52:58.079
Cliff. And I get a call one day that she

00:52:58.079 --> 00:53:00.400
was talking to the uh the Secret Service

00:53:00.400 --> 00:53:01.440
trying they're trying to get her to turn

00:53:01.440 --> 00:53:03.839
herself in. And I find out about it. I

00:53:03.839 --> 00:53:05.119
go over there and tell her to get in the

00:53:05.119 --> 00:53:06.720
car. She gets in the car. I tell her,

00:53:06.720 --> 00:53:07.839
"Give me her phone. She gives me her

00:53:07.839 --> 00:53:08.880
phone, take battery out, send her car

00:53:08.880 --> 00:53:09.760
out, throw the shit out the window,

00:53:09.760 --> 00:53:10.640
break that bitch and have it, throw it

00:53:10.640 --> 00:53:11.839
out the window until I ever catch

00:53:11.839 --> 00:53:15.200
talking cough again. I'mma kill her."

00:53:15.200 --> 00:53:17.920
>> Damn. I kidnapped her.

00:53:17.920 --> 00:53:19.440
>> Wait, you kidnapped Elizabeth?

00:53:19.440 --> 00:53:20.800
>> Yeah. And and then she started getting

00:53:20.800 --> 00:53:22.079
high on methamphetamines. And now she's

00:53:22.079 --> 00:53:23.520
in jail still for methamphetamines. I

00:53:23.520 --> 00:53:28.160
turned her out. Fucked her life off.

00:53:28.160 --> 00:53:28.559
>> What?

00:53:28.559 --> 00:53:29.520
>> You never got high before?

00:53:29.520 --> 00:53:30.800
>> I got high for the first time. She's

00:53:30.800 --> 00:53:32.559
been doing method since.

00:53:32.559 --> 00:53:35.359
>> Oh my god. What? My brother got custody

00:53:35.359 --> 00:53:38.160
of both his sons because of his uh He

00:53:38.160 --> 00:53:39.760
can tell you all that stuff. But yeah,

00:53:39.760 --> 00:53:41.119
he he end up getting custody of both of

00:53:41.119 --> 00:53:43.440
his sons because his baby mama's piece

00:53:43.440 --> 00:53:44.960
of shit. My baby mama's a piece of shit,

00:53:44.960 --> 00:53:46.000
too. She got back with the guy that

00:53:46.000 --> 00:53:47.440
molested my kids. Yeah, but you're the

00:53:47.440 --> 00:53:48.800
one who turned her into a piece of shit

00:53:48.800 --> 00:53:51.119
by getting her hooked on meth.

00:53:51.119 --> 00:53:55.280
>> It's not my fault she stayed addicted.

00:53:55.280 --> 00:53:57.920
>> What is this? This is You need your own

00:53:57.920 --> 00:54:00.960
You need your own TV show. We Someone

00:54:00.960 --> 00:54:02.880
needs to be uh following you with a

00:54:02.880 --> 00:54:04.640
camera. >> My life, bro.

00:54:04.640 --> 00:54:08.960
>> We'd be I'll be rich. We all be

00:54:08.960 --> 00:54:10.400
>> like I tell people all the time, you

00:54:10.400 --> 00:54:11.280
can't make this shit up.

00:54:11.280 --> 00:54:13.920
>> I know. Like Jersey Shore would have

00:54:13.920 --> 00:54:16.800
nothing on you. You would just be like,

00:54:16.800 --> 00:54:18.160
and this is real life reality. All that

00:54:18.160 --> 00:54:20.000
shit that they do is fake scripted shit.

00:54:20.000 --> 00:54:20.720
Yeah.

00:54:20.720 --> 00:54:22.400
>> So, the indictment comes out. It lists

00:54:22.400 --> 00:54:24.480
Nathan, his brother, and his brother's

00:54:24.480 --> 00:54:26.319
wife, Elizabeth, saying they were

00:54:26.319 --> 00:54:27.760
stealing credit cards from Chicken

00:54:27.760 --> 00:54:29.839
Express and then using those at Walmart.

00:54:29.839 --> 00:54:32.319
Nathan was still wanted though, missing,

00:54:32.319 --> 00:54:34.400
hiding out, and still making stolen

00:54:34.400 --> 00:54:35.040
credit cards.

00:54:35.040 --> 00:54:37.440
>> I had a a budgera, a witch lady come

00:54:37.440 --> 00:54:39.599
from Mexico. >> A what?

00:54:39.599 --> 00:54:42.240
>> A budgera. What the hell? It's like a

00:54:42.240 --> 00:54:43.520
witch person, a witch doctor or

00:54:43.520 --> 00:54:44.880
something.

00:54:44.880 --> 00:54:48.720
No, that's they worshiped Santa Morte.

00:54:48.720 --> 00:54:50.880
>> Why would you get this?

00:54:50.880 --> 00:54:55.200
>> So they confronted my house.

00:54:55.200 --> 00:54:57.760
>> How much did you pay them?

00:54:57.760 --> 00:55:00.880
>> Like 200 bucks. So what happened was So

00:55:00.880 --> 00:55:02.480
I was ended up burning that candle in my

00:55:02.480 --> 00:55:04.319
house, one of the Mexican candles. And

00:55:04.319 --> 00:55:06.559
it and it stopped burning. So my my

00:55:06.559 --> 00:55:07.839
homeboy was still staying over there,

00:55:07.839 --> 00:55:09.040
the cops that came to the house looking

00:55:09.040 --> 00:55:10.160
for somebody, but it wasn't for me or

00:55:10.160 --> 00:55:11.760
for him or anything. It was some wrong

00:55:11.760 --> 00:55:14.079
house basically. But I panicked and so I

00:55:14.079 --> 00:55:15.680
was never going back there. And somebody

00:55:15.680 --> 00:55:16.720
called me and told me the candle was

00:55:16.720 --> 00:55:18.400
going out. I go to get the candle. The

00:55:18.400 --> 00:55:20.400
candle's going out. Never got the candle

00:55:20.400 --> 00:55:22.960
lit again so she could channel her spell

00:55:22.960 --> 00:55:25.119
and keep her spell of protection over

00:55:25.119 --> 00:55:28.640
me. Well, didn't work. Uh I was on

00:55:28.640 --> 00:55:32.160
fucking channel 45811 news. Uh most

00:55:32.160 --> 00:55:34.880
wanted uh top 10 DFW most wanted by the

00:55:34.880 --> 00:55:38.079
US Marshalss. And they're looking for me

00:55:38.079 --> 00:55:39.359
in my Escalade. So, I dropped my

00:55:39.359 --> 00:55:41.760
escalator off, got my Alexis,

00:55:41.760 --> 00:55:45.119
and uh we went and got our OCS for Oak

00:55:45.119 --> 00:55:47.920
Swipers. We had a little uh swiping clip

00:55:47.920 --> 00:55:51.680
called Oak Swipers, and uh

00:55:51.680 --> 00:55:53.520
we went and got our OCS tattoos, me, my

00:55:53.520 --> 00:55:56.400
cousin, and uh one of my shoppers

00:55:56.400 --> 00:55:58.480
tattoos. Oh, you're on the run from the

00:55:58.480 --> 00:56:00.160
feds and you're like, "Guys, we need to

00:56:00.160 --> 00:56:02.559
stop and get tattoos on the way out of

00:56:02.559 --> 00:56:07.520
town." Yeah. Yeah. Oh, like oill

00:56:07.520 --> 00:56:09.920
Swipers. >> Oak Cliff.

00:56:09.920 --> 00:56:11.599
>> Oak Cliff Swipers.

00:56:11.599 --> 00:56:13.359
>> They got a song about it called Oak

00:56:13.359 --> 00:56:15.839
Cliff. That's my hood.

00:56:15.839 --> 00:56:18.640
>> CLIFF. YEAH, THAT'S MY HOOD. PUT IT IN

00:56:18.640 --> 00:56:21.359
HIS FACE. GET THAT SHIT UNDERSTOOD. THIS

00:56:21.359 --> 00:56:22.960
AIN'T WHAT YOU WANT.

00:56:22.960 --> 00:56:24.480
>> That needs to be the opening intro

00:56:24.480 --> 00:56:30.000
music. Oh, that's my hood.

00:56:30.000 --> 00:56:31.359
>> My main girlfriend shows up at the

00:56:31.359 --> 00:56:32.960
tattoo parlor. So, I got both my bitches

00:56:32.960 --> 00:56:33.920
there.

00:56:33.920 --> 00:56:35.359
>> Me and my They didn't know about each

00:56:35.359 --> 00:56:36.079
other.

00:56:36.079 --> 00:56:37.200
>> Yeah, they knew about each. The side

00:56:37.200 --> 00:56:38.480
bitch knew about they didn't.

00:56:38.480 --> 00:56:39.680
>> The main bitch didn't like the side

00:56:39.680 --> 00:56:41.359
bitch. Side bitch didn't give a fuck.

00:56:41.359 --> 00:56:43.119
Okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. That's how it

00:56:43.119 --> 00:56:44.559
usually works.

00:56:44.559 --> 00:56:46.240
>> My cousin telling me, "I got you cuz."

00:56:46.240 --> 00:56:47.520
So, I make both my bitches sit in the

00:56:47.520 --> 00:56:48.640
back seat. My cousin rides in the front

00:56:48.640 --> 00:56:50.000
seat with me. We go to my cousin's

00:56:50.000 --> 00:56:51.920
house. My side bitch goes in the house

00:56:51.920 --> 00:56:54.079
with me cuz my my cousin and my main

00:56:54.079 --> 00:56:56.160
bitch don't get along. They hate each

00:56:56.160 --> 00:56:57.920
other.

00:56:57.920 --> 00:56:59.280
Yeah. So, she's like, "You can't come to

00:56:59.280 --> 00:57:01.920
my house."

00:57:01.920 --> 00:57:04.720
So this bitch outside my Lexus. I'm in

00:57:04.720 --> 00:57:06.960
the bed with my side bitch. My cousin's

00:57:06.960 --> 00:57:09.440
house. I wake up the next morning making

00:57:09.440 --> 00:57:11.680
some cars. Roll a blunt. Go start

00:57:11.680 --> 00:57:12.799
looking for my cousin. Rolls blunt. She

00:57:12.799 --> 00:57:15.280
goes, "Nathan, the cops are here." My

00:57:15.280 --> 00:57:16.880
cousin, she had the doors open in the

00:57:16.880 --> 00:57:18.319
front of the house and was cleaning and

00:57:18.319 --> 00:57:20.480
shit. She seen the uh Secret Service car

00:57:20.480 --> 00:57:22.640
pull up. There were just two Secret

00:57:22.640 --> 00:57:24.559
Service agents originally with Gwen

00:57:24.559 --> 00:57:27.599
Dallas patrol car uh when they came to

00:57:27.599 --> 00:57:30.000
arrest me. And uh I don't know how they

00:57:30.000 --> 00:57:31.440
got the anonymous tip there. I'm pretty

00:57:31.440 --> 00:57:33.040
sure it was uh my main bitch's fucking

00:57:33.040 --> 00:57:38.880
mama. I'm about 99.9% sure. And uh it's

00:57:38.880 --> 00:57:39.760
all good. You know, I was going to get

00:57:39.760 --> 00:57:41.200
caught misly anyway. So I'm glad it went

00:57:41.200 --> 00:57:42.319
down like it did and I didn't get hurt

00:57:42.319 --> 00:57:43.760
cuz I ran everybody out the house. My

00:57:43.760 --> 00:57:45.200
cousin's Mexican. She got like three

00:57:45.200 --> 00:57:48.079
kids at the house with her. I both my

00:57:48.079 --> 00:57:49.680
bitches are out of the house. I ran

00:57:49.680 --> 00:57:51.280
everybody out the house. Put on my body

00:57:51.280 --> 00:57:54.400
armor. Got my AR-15. Loaded that bitch.

00:57:54.400 --> 00:57:56.400
I had 10 30 round clips. I was ready for

00:57:56.400 --> 00:57:58.079
war. I didn't know what was happening. I

00:57:58.079 --> 00:57:58.880
thought I was going to prison for the

00:57:58.880 --> 00:58:00.240
rest of my life, broke.

00:58:00.240 --> 00:58:01.760
>> Wow.

00:58:01.760 --> 00:58:05.200
>> So, I was ready to die.

00:58:05.200 --> 00:58:06.960
>> So, you cleared everyone else out of the

00:58:06.960 --> 00:58:09.359
house and then you loaded up body armor

00:58:09.359 --> 00:58:12.079
and and uh armed yourself with all the

00:58:12.079 --> 00:58:13.920
weapons you had. >> Yeah.

00:58:13.920 --> 00:58:15.760
>> And you you flashed it out the windows

00:58:15.760 --> 00:58:17.680
and the doors saying, "Hey, stay the

00:58:17.680 --> 00:58:18.160
stay out."

00:58:18.160 --> 00:58:21.119
>> My increen front porch, bro, on the

00:58:21.119 --> 00:58:23.200
underneath the carport.

00:58:23.200 --> 00:58:24.640
>> They went It had the screen on it

00:58:24.640 --> 00:58:25.839
though, that you could see out, but

00:58:25.839 --> 00:58:26.960
people couldn't see in, right?

00:58:26.960 --> 00:58:28.160
>> Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah, I know what you

00:58:28.160 --> 00:58:29.920
mean. So, I was sitting there watching

00:58:29.920 --> 00:58:31.599
them for 6 hours, bro. While they were

00:58:31.599 --> 00:58:33.040
surrounding my house, the tank pulling

00:58:33.040 --> 00:58:34.480
up in the front yard and putting a robot

00:58:34.480 --> 00:58:35.760
on the porch, throwing a phone in

00:58:35.760 --> 00:58:37.520
through the door, shooting flashbangs

00:58:37.520 --> 00:58:38.640
and tear gas. I'm sitting there watching

00:58:38.640 --> 00:58:39.760
these fucking idiots thinking they're

00:58:39.760 --> 00:58:41.119
tear gas and flashbanging me and I'm

00:58:41.119 --> 00:58:42.160
sitting out here on the front porch

00:58:42.160 --> 00:58:43.280
watching these fucking idiots the whole

00:58:43.280 --> 00:58:44.480
time, bro.

00:58:44.480 --> 00:58:46.640
>> Oh, dang. Yeah, they didn't know you

00:58:46.640 --> 00:58:48.319
were on the porch, bro. Picked them off,

00:58:48.319 --> 00:58:49.920
bro. I mean, I want to get all of them.

00:58:49.920 --> 00:58:51.040
But I could have picked them off, bro,

00:58:51.040 --> 00:58:53.200
if I really wanted to.

00:58:53.200 --> 00:58:54.880
They wouldn't even know. I mean, after

00:58:54.880 --> 00:58:56.319
the first couple of shots, I mean, I

00:58:56.319 --> 00:58:57.359
would have got a couple of them before

00:58:57.359 --> 00:58:58.319
they got me.

00:58:58.319 --> 00:58:59.280
>> Oh, yeah. They

00:58:59.280 --> 00:59:01.280
>> I would drive ball like that. Not at

00:59:01.280 --> 00:59:02.960
that point in my life.

00:59:02.960 --> 00:59:05.520
>> I mean, this sounds really intense. Um,

00:59:05.520 --> 00:59:07.440
were you scared? Were you Were you

00:59:07.440 --> 00:59:09.040
tensed up? Were you high?

00:59:09.040 --> 00:59:11.520
>> I was hyperventilating. I was uh cold

00:59:11.520 --> 00:59:15.359
sweats. Like, it was it was it was uh

00:59:15.359 --> 00:59:19.920
it was a an adrenaline rush and uh

00:59:19.920 --> 00:59:23.200
sadness and uh it's over with all at the

00:59:23.200 --> 00:59:26.850
same time. you know.

00:59:26.850 --> 00:59:28.319
[Music]

00:59:28.319 --> 00:59:29.760
So I I said, "Fuck this." I took some

00:59:29.760 --> 00:59:32.319
hydrocodone on. I took some Xanax, went

00:59:32.319 --> 00:59:33.839
in the house. Soon as I went in the

00:59:33.839 --> 00:59:35.119
house, my eyes start burning like a

00:59:35.119 --> 00:59:37.280
motherfucker, crying like a baby. So I

00:59:37.280 --> 00:59:38.559
fucking put on some big ass glasses,

00:59:38.559 --> 00:59:39.760
wrapped towel around my head, got it

00:59:39.760 --> 00:59:42.480
wet, and went to the door. And I found

00:59:42.480 --> 00:59:43.520
this phone that they threw in through

00:59:43.520 --> 00:59:44.640
the window. And I pick up the phone.

00:59:44.640 --> 00:59:46.160
This the hostage negotiator gets on the

00:59:46.160 --> 00:59:47.280
phone. Tell him, "Fuck you, bitch. I

00:59:47.280 --> 00:59:49.839
don't want to talk to you." Uh, put put

00:59:49.839 --> 00:59:52.880
Secret Service agent reads on the phone.

00:59:52.880 --> 00:59:55.599
He said, "Yes, sir." He got along. So,

00:59:55.599 --> 00:59:57.280
M. Reed, these Dallas police are going

00:59:57.280 --> 00:59:59.119
to kill me, bro. They They're They're

00:59:59.119 --> 01:00:00.240
treating They Look at this. They got

01:00:00.240 --> 01:00:01.599
this tank out here in the front yard.

01:00:01.599 --> 01:00:03.280
They got the goddamn SWAT They got the

01:00:03.280 --> 01:00:04.720
uh the command center band down at the

01:00:04.720 --> 01:00:06.720
end of the block.

01:00:06.720 --> 01:00:08.319
>> There was There was an actual tank in

01:00:08.319 --> 01:00:10.079
your yard, bro. They had they had

01:00:10.079 --> 01:00:11.440
snipers on the hospital across the

01:00:11.440 --> 01:00:14.480
street. God damn.

01:00:14.480 --> 01:00:16.720
>> Okay. What How did they know that you

01:00:16.720 --> 01:00:18.319
were like armed and dangerous in there?

01:00:18.319 --> 01:00:19.920
Were you you must have showed them like,

01:00:19.920 --> 01:00:21.359
"Hey, I've got these weapons like

01:00:21.359 --> 01:00:22.559
through the window or something and stay

01:00:22.559 --> 01:00:23.680
the fuck back."

01:00:23.680 --> 01:00:25.839
>> Like three rounds into the ceiling and

01:00:25.839 --> 01:00:27.200
uh I mean I came to the door.

01:00:27.200 --> 01:00:28.960
>> You shot the ceiling?

01:00:28.960 --> 01:00:31.200
>> Yeah.

01:00:31.200 --> 01:00:33.520
>> And they and and at the door they saw So

01:00:33.520 --> 01:00:34.720
they came all the way to the door and

01:00:34.720 --> 01:00:35.920
they saw you shooting the ceiling.

01:00:35.920 --> 01:00:37.119
>> They were in the yard. They were in the

01:00:37.119 --> 01:00:39.359
yard with in the tank. They had like

01:00:39.359 --> 01:00:41.599
turn on the tank that they shoot tear

01:00:41.599 --> 01:00:43.280
gas. Uh they're like

01:00:43.280 --> 01:00:45.680
>> this is crazier than Waco Secrets. Like

01:00:45.680 --> 01:00:47.119
they're very professional, bro. and and

01:00:47.119 --> 01:00:48.559
they're very chill and laidback, bro.

01:00:48.559 --> 01:00:51.040
Like I said, he said is I got since this

01:00:51.040 --> 01:00:52.240
is since we don't know if there's

01:00:52.240 --> 01:00:53.920
anybody else in the house, you have to

01:00:53.920 --> 01:00:55.520
come out and surrender to them, but as

01:00:55.520 --> 01:00:57.680
soon as you surrender to them, I'm going

01:00:57.680 --> 01:00:59.280
to come and get you. I said, "That's

01:00:59.280 --> 01:01:00.640
your word?" He said, "What do you what

01:01:00.640 --> 01:01:02.079
are your demands?" So, I want to talk to

01:01:02.079 --> 01:01:02.960
my kids and I want to smoke some

01:01:02.960 --> 01:01:04.160
cigarettes and I just want to call my

01:01:04.160 --> 01:01:05.280
parents and my kids, tell them I love

01:01:05.280 --> 01:01:06.799
them and tell everybody I love. He's

01:01:06.799 --> 01:01:08.000
like, "Will you come out peacefully? You

01:01:08.000 --> 01:01:09.680
got my word? You got that?" I was like,

01:01:09.680 --> 01:01:10.799
"That's I" was like, "That's your word

01:01:10.799 --> 01:01:12.000
as a man." He's like, "That's my word as

01:01:12.000 --> 01:01:14.960
a man." And uh Slav surrendered

01:01:14.960 --> 01:01:18.480
peacefully after eight hours.

01:01:18.480 --> 01:01:22.880
>> Holy mackerel. Okay.

01:01:22.880 --> 01:01:24.319
>> I was for them. They were fixing to come

01:01:24.319 --> 01:01:25.680
in. Was in like the next five minutes

01:01:25.680 --> 01:01:26.960
they were they were they were they were

01:01:26.960 --> 01:01:29.200
fixing to come in and get me. So I

01:01:29.200 --> 01:01:31.839
probably would have been dead.

01:01:31.839 --> 01:01:33.920
>> Yeah. >> Yeah.

01:01:33.920 --> 01:01:37.040
>> Um did they did they honor their word?

01:01:37.040 --> 01:01:39.119
>> The Secret Service did as soon as I

01:01:39.119 --> 01:01:40.319
didn't even get put in handcuffs by the

01:01:40.319 --> 01:01:42.640
Dallas police. And he he when he

01:01:42.640 --> 01:01:44.000
arrested me, he put zip ties on me and

01:01:44.000 --> 01:01:45.839
put him in the front and he let me sit

01:01:45.839 --> 01:01:47.520
in the front seat with him when we left.

01:01:47.520 --> 01:01:48.640
When we drove off, I was in the front

01:01:48.640 --> 01:01:51.040
seat with him and the other agent was

01:01:51.040 --> 01:01:54.319
behind me

01:01:54.319 --> 01:01:55.680
and he gave me a cell phone. He said,

01:01:55.680 --> 01:01:57.680
"Call your kids.

01:01:57.680 --> 01:01:59.040
We got down to the grass, you know,

01:01:59.040 --> 01:02:00.559
where Kennedy got shot." Said, "You're

01:02:00.559 --> 01:02:01.599
not going to try to run, are you?" I

01:02:01.599 --> 01:02:02.559
said, "Nope." He said, "If you do, I'm

01:02:02.559 --> 01:02:04.559
going to shoot you in the back. Let me

01:02:04.559 --> 01:02:05.839
sit down on the rationale and smoke

01:02:05.839 --> 01:02:07.599
three cigarettes before he took me to

01:02:07.599 --> 01:02:10.799
Lerret. [Music]

01:02:10.799 --> 01:02:13.680
>> Larret Justice Center is the main Dallas

01:02:13.680 --> 01:02:15.760
County jail. And as you could guess, he

01:02:15.760 --> 01:02:17.839
was facing tons and tons of charges at

01:02:17.839 --> 01:02:19.440
this point. They were slapping him with

01:02:19.440 --> 01:02:21.040
charges of things he didn't even do.

01:02:21.040 --> 01:02:22.960
Like anytime that there was a stolen

01:02:22.960 --> 01:02:24.559
credit card incident in Texas, he was

01:02:24.559 --> 01:02:26.160
getting charged with that. There was

01:02:26.160 --> 01:02:27.920
actually one of the computers that they

01:02:27.920 --> 01:02:30.559
that uh had been purchased from from us.

01:02:30.559 --> 01:02:32.160
They had end up finding somewhere or

01:02:32.160 --> 01:02:34.640
something and it they found out it had

01:02:34.640 --> 01:02:37.760
some uh uh child pornography on it and

01:02:37.760 --> 01:02:40.799
uh but my lawyer had a a special

01:02:40.799 --> 01:02:42.960
investigator and it it somebody had

01:02:42.960 --> 01:02:45.119
bought the laptop before us and taken it

01:02:45.119 --> 01:02:46.880
back to Walmart and then my shopper

01:02:46.880 --> 01:02:48.160
purchased it.

01:02:48.160 --> 01:02:49.680
>> Okay. Okay. So, at this point, your

01:02:49.680 --> 01:02:52.480
brother's in jail. His ex-wife

01:02:52.480 --> 01:02:58.240
Elizabeth's in jail. You're in jail.

01:02:58.240 --> 01:03:01.200
>> Yep. And Corey David, this is in jail,

01:03:01.200 --> 01:03:02.400
too.

01:03:02.400 --> 01:03:04.400
>> Corey Davis. Let me see what I have on

01:03:04.400 --> 01:03:07.520
him. So, this guy was an accomplice.

01:03:07.520 --> 01:03:08.799
Um,

01:03:08.799 --> 01:03:10.000
>> he was the one that was getting credit

01:03:10.000 --> 01:03:11.440
cards that morning from me when we got

01:03:11.440 --> 01:03:13.280
raided originally.

01:03:13.280 --> 01:03:16.000
>> Yeah.

01:03:16.000 --> 01:03:17.520
Across the street for me. Dude couldn't

01:03:17.520 --> 01:03:18.720
feed his kids. him and his wife lost

01:03:18.720 --> 01:03:20.000
their job and couldn't feed their kids,

01:03:20.000 --> 01:03:21.119
pay their bills or nothing. So, I put

01:03:21.119 --> 01:03:22.240
him on and then they tell me,

01:03:22.240 --> 01:03:23.920
>> "Oh, he was your neighbor." Yeah. Yeah.

01:03:23.920 --> 01:03:27.440
Yeah. So, he he was cashing for you. And

01:03:27.440 --> 01:03:29.119
when the police got to him, he got

01:03:29.119 --> 01:03:31.359
scared to he just got scared for his own

01:03:31.359 --> 01:03:32.720
sake, man. He was like, I don't want to

01:03:32.720 --> 01:03:33.920
go to prison forever. What do you want

01:03:33.920 --> 01:03:35.599
to know? I That's the thing about

01:03:35.599 --> 01:03:37.200
snitching is everyone says don't snitch,

01:03:37.200 --> 01:03:38.319
no snitch. But then when it's like,

01:03:38.319 --> 01:03:40.960
well, you got 40 years in prison or you

01:03:40.960 --> 01:03:43.359
can snitch and then suddenly the the the

01:03:43.359 --> 01:03:44.559
reality hits people.

01:03:44.559 --> 01:03:45.839
>> Well, yeah. I got a little brother. I

01:03:45.839 --> 01:03:46.960
call him my little brother cuz me and my

01:03:46.960 --> 01:03:48.400
ex-wife raised him. It's her little

01:03:48.400 --> 01:03:50.799
brother and uh he just got 5 years for

01:03:50.799 --> 01:03:54.880
murder. But uh what I mean uh he there

01:03:54.880 --> 01:03:56.720
was the dude that was with him did the

01:03:56.720 --> 01:03:58.079
murder and my little brother didn't know

01:03:58.079 --> 01:03:59.520
he was doing the murder.

01:03:59.520 --> 01:04:00.000
>> I see.

01:04:00.000 --> 01:04:01.280
>> And we got out and blew somebody's head

01:04:01.280 --> 01:04:02.640
off on a motorcycle.

01:04:02.640 --> 01:04:04.160
>> My little brother only got five years,

01:04:04.160 --> 01:04:05.839
>> but he got he got like 15 years because

01:04:05.839 --> 01:04:09.520
he had a whole bunch of other shit too.

01:04:09.520 --> 01:04:10.720
>> But they knew he wasn't part of the

01:04:10.720 --> 01:04:12.160
murder. So they only gave him five years

01:04:12.160 --> 01:04:15.680
worth. Do have you ever um diagnosed

01:04:15.680 --> 01:04:19.280
yourself for any uh uh mental situations

01:04:19.280 --> 01:04:21.039
like ADHD or anything?

01:04:21.039 --> 01:04:21.520
>> No.

01:04:21.520 --> 01:04:23.039
>> Well, not diagnosed yourself, but have

01:04:23.039 --> 01:04:24.640
you been like are you officially

01:04:24.640 --> 01:04:26.160
anything ADHD or

01:04:26.160 --> 01:04:29.760
>> Yeah, I have I have ADHD, dyslexia, um

01:04:29.760 --> 01:04:32.079
intermittent explosive anger disorder,

01:04:32.079 --> 01:04:35.119
uh uh PTSD, extreme PTSD, extreme

01:04:35.119 --> 01:04:36.640
anxiety,

01:04:36.640 --> 01:04:39.599
um did I say did I say bipolar one and

01:04:39.599 --> 01:04:40.079
two yet?

01:04:40.079 --> 01:04:42.880
>> No. Yeah, I got them. Oh, that's what

01:04:42.880 --> 01:04:44.079
that's what I've been diagnosed with by

01:04:44.079 --> 01:04:45.200
the doctor.

01:04:45.200 --> 01:04:47.280
>> What What's some of your favorite music?

01:04:47.280 --> 01:04:50.319
Musicians. >> Uh Tupac.

01:04:50.319 --> 01:04:50.960
>> Yeah.

01:04:50.960 --> 01:04:52.559
>> I listen to rock music like death metal.

01:04:52.559 --> 01:04:53.520
Like heavy heavy he every he every he

01:04:53.520 --> 01:04:53.520
every he every he every he every he

01:04:53.520 --> 01:04:53.680
every he every he every he every heavy

01:04:53.680 --> 01:04:55.440
death metal

01:04:55.440 --> 01:04:58.160
>> you know like um uh you know uh

01:04:58.160 --> 01:05:01.359
Bronstein Slipnot.

01:05:01.359 --> 01:05:05.119
Okay. I was going to say Slipnot. Um

01:05:05.119 --> 01:05:08.799
>> break shit music.

01:05:08.799 --> 01:05:10.319
>> ICP.

01:05:10.319 --> 01:05:11.920
Yeah. Yeah. I went to ICP concert.

01:05:11.920 --> 01:05:13.280
They're fucking hilarious, bro.

01:05:13.280 --> 01:05:15.119
>> Oh my gosh. I bet they are. Bunch of

01:05:15.119 --> 01:05:16.559
clowns. >> Yeah.

01:05:16.559 --> 01:05:20.400
>> Okay. Where were we? Oh, yeah. Uh

01:05:20.400 --> 01:05:23.359
December 2010, Nathan, his brother, and

01:05:23.359 --> 01:05:25.599
his brother's wife Elizabeth were all in

01:05:25.599 --> 01:05:27.440
jail. And Nathan's brother, and

01:05:27.440 --> 01:05:30.000
Elizabeth had kids. His son with

01:05:30.000 --> 01:05:33.039
Elizabeth is with his grandparents, and

01:05:33.039 --> 01:05:35.599
then his other son with his other wife

01:05:35.599 --> 01:05:38.480
is with uh his birth mama. And my three

01:05:38.480 --> 01:05:42.240
kids were with uh my baby mama.

01:05:42.240 --> 01:05:43.440
But when I got arrested, my kids were

01:05:43.440 --> 01:05:44.880
with my parents. When my when my wife

01:05:44.880 --> 01:05:45.680
left me,

01:05:45.680 --> 01:05:48.160
>> she left me with no car, no nothing, and

01:05:48.160 --> 01:05:50.000
three kids.

01:05:50.000 --> 01:05:51.839
Like she paints this whole story. She

01:05:51.839 --> 01:05:54.480
got everybody pictured this whole story

01:05:54.480 --> 01:05:56.400
>> that I'm the evil person. You abandoned

01:05:56.400 --> 01:05:57.599
me and the kids.

01:05:57.599 --> 01:06:00.720
>> Yeah. Um you know, I I I feel like I

01:06:00.720 --> 01:06:01.920
abandoned them eventually anyways

01:06:01.920 --> 01:06:03.119
because I went to prison for so long. So

01:06:03.119 --> 01:06:04.559
I feel like I abandoned them too though.

01:06:04.559 --> 01:06:07.440
And I did, you know, but at the time,

01:06:07.440 --> 01:06:09.039
uh, when you have no means of making

01:06:09.039 --> 01:06:11.119
money, I like when I when I was when I

01:06:11.119 --> 01:06:12.480
was 17, I got my first computer job

01:06:12.480 --> 01:06:14.799
working for Southwestern Bell, uh, doing

01:06:14.799 --> 01:06:16.640
tech support for Pacific Bell and

01:06:16.640 --> 01:06:19.200
Pacific and Southwestern Bell. I like I

01:06:19.200 --> 01:06:21.039
used to work for Microsoft, bro. I used

01:06:21.039 --> 01:06:23.520
to work for Vario web hosting and I I

01:06:23.520 --> 01:06:24.960
worked in network operations center.

01:06:24.960 --> 01:06:27.280
Like I could have had a good promising

01:06:27.280 --> 01:06:29.520
computer career,

01:06:29.520 --> 01:06:30.880
but I fucked it all off because of

01:06:30.880 --> 01:06:32.960
drugs. I was doing cocaine. I was doing

01:06:32.960 --> 01:06:34.559
cocaine. Lines of cocaine when I work

01:06:34.559 --> 01:06:37.359
for Earthlink internet link.

01:06:37.359 --> 01:06:40.000
>> Yeah, I remember Earthlink dial up.

01:06:40.000 --> 01:06:41.920
>> Yeah, I was doing lines of cocaine on

01:06:41.920 --> 01:06:45.520
the desk with the trainer.

01:06:45.520 --> 01:06:46.799
>> The trainer from Seattle would come

01:06:46.799 --> 01:06:48.400
down, come get me. We go to Oakliff, get

01:06:48.400 --> 01:06:50.000
him some cocaine. He smoke cocaine on

01:06:50.000 --> 01:06:52.559
top of a weed and tobacco pipe and I do

01:06:52.559 --> 01:06:53.680
lines of cocaine on the table. He'd be

01:06:53.680 --> 01:06:54.640
like, "I'm going to get Michael. We're

01:06:54.640 --> 01:06:55.520
going to go work on some training

01:06:55.520 --> 01:06:57.359
material."

01:06:57.359 --> 01:07:00.160
We do all this on the clock.

01:07:00.160 --> 01:07:06.880
Crazy motherfucker. Okay.

01:07:06.880 --> 01:07:07.839
I don't think uh

01:07:07.839 --> 01:07:09.520
>> I hacked Earth, bro. They they cracked

01:07:09.520 --> 01:07:12.000
the fuck, bro. I was I I I crashed their

01:07:12.000 --> 01:07:14.960
stock, bro. This is like

01:07:14.960 --> 01:07:17.359
>> Yeah, I cracked their stock, bro. So,

01:07:17.359 --> 01:07:19.119
like it was Earthlink Mind Springspring

01:07:19.119 --> 01:07:20.480
merger, right? >> Yeah.

01:07:20.480 --> 01:07:21.760
>> Sprint took over basically because they

01:07:21.760 --> 01:07:23.760
own 80% of Earthlink. That's way back

01:07:23.760 --> 01:07:25.760
when they had that short URL shortener

01:07:25.760 --> 01:07:28.319
called CJB.net. Remember CJB?

01:07:28.319 --> 01:07:31.359
>> No. It was a URL shortener. So I made

01:07:31.359 --> 01:07:33.520
els sucks.cjb.net.

01:07:33.520 --> 01:07:35.119
I work in network operation center, bro.

01:07:35.119 --> 01:07:36.880
So I had I had access to the server room

01:07:36.880 --> 01:07:40.240
and everything, you know, and uh so I I

01:07:40.240 --> 01:07:41.680
got I got into the company, the

01:07:41.680 --> 01:07:43.280
president of the company's emails and uh

01:07:43.280 --> 01:07:44.799
him and the vice president and people on

01:07:44.799 --> 01:07:45.760
the board and shit were talking about

01:07:45.760 --> 01:07:47.920
how they fuck over their customers, how

01:07:47.920 --> 01:07:49.599
fucking cuz their service was shit, bro.

01:07:49.599 --> 01:07:53.599
It was trash. And uh it was just a

01:07:53.599 --> 01:07:55.599
Anyway, so I posted these documents, all

01:07:55.599 --> 01:07:57.520
these confidential information about how

01:07:57.520 --> 01:07:59.280
they got hacked one time and they didn't

01:07:59.280 --> 01:08:00.960
report it to nobody. But that back then

01:08:00.960 --> 01:08:04.640
you didn't have to. Uh, so I I released

01:08:04.640 --> 01:08:06.799
all this. I put put it on CJB.net

01:08:06.799 --> 01:08:08.559
website. This little HTML thing with

01:08:08.559 --> 01:08:11.359
some snippets from the uh emails. Yeah.

01:08:11.359 --> 01:08:13.200
>> And fucking I started spamming fucking

01:08:13.200 --> 01:08:15.520
MSN and Yahoo stock message boards and

01:08:15.520 --> 01:08:17.440
they're fucking stock from like $32 down

01:08:17.440 --> 01:08:18.799
to $18.

01:08:18.799 --> 01:08:21.279
>> Damn. Cuz like you these this company

01:08:21.279 --> 01:08:22.719
comes in here and they're now got all

01:08:22.719 --> 01:08:24.799
these c got all these new employees and

01:08:24.799 --> 01:08:26.080
now they're trying to reig on what they

01:08:26.080 --> 01:08:27.199
said they were going to do. You know

01:08:27.199 --> 01:08:28.239
what I'm saying? I'm always for the

01:08:28.239 --> 01:08:28.960
little man. You know what I'm saying?

01:08:28.960 --> 01:08:30.480
And I always stand up cuz little man,

01:08:30.480 --> 01:08:31.600
but I never went back.

01:08:31.600 --> 01:08:35.839
>> Yeah, I bet you didn't. Yeah,

01:08:35.839 --> 01:08:38.239
man. We get off track fast of this one.

01:08:38.239 --> 01:08:40.159
Um, all right. Yeah. Still, Nathan, his

01:08:40.159 --> 01:08:42.080
brother, and Elizabeth are all in jail.

01:08:42.080 --> 01:08:44.880
Uh, Elizabeth pleads guilty and his

01:08:44.880 --> 01:08:47.920
brother pleads guilty. And the two boys

01:08:47.920 --> 01:08:49.279
actually said that they coerced

01:08:49.279 --> 01:08:50.880
Elizabeth into doing it. So, this meant

01:08:50.880 --> 01:08:52.799
she got less time in jail. And so, she

01:08:52.799 --> 01:08:55.040
ended up serving two years in jail. His

01:08:55.040 --> 01:08:57.600
little brother got four years in prison.

01:08:57.600 --> 01:08:59.199
And the last one to face trial was

01:08:59.199 --> 01:09:00.400
Nathan.

01:09:00.400 --> 01:09:02.960
>> I plead guilty. He spiritually g me

01:09:02.960 --> 01:09:05.600
access to my drug and I went to prison.

01:09:05.600 --> 01:09:07.679
>> He was sentenced to 4 years and 3 months

01:09:07.679 --> 01:09:09.199
in prison. 3 months more than his

01:09:09.199 --> 01:09:09.600
brother.

01:09:09.600 --> 01:09:11.600
>> Yeah. I ended up doing all of it. My

01:09:11.600 --> 01:09:13.759
brother ended up doing all of it, too.

01:09:13.759 --> 01:09:15.679
>> And you know, I mean, I went to prison,

01:09:15.679 --> 01:09:16.880
bro. I lived like a rockstar the whole

01:09:16.880 --> 01:09:18.319
time I was in prison. I stayed high on

01:09:18.319 --> 01:09:20.640
K2 and drinking moonshine.

01:09:20.640 --> 01:09:22.960
>> The hell is K2? That's a vitamin.

01:09:22.960 --> 01:09:25.120
>> No, K2 is is like synthetic marijuana.

01:09:25.120 --> 01:09:28.239
>> Oh my god. Okay. So, you do your four

01:09:28.239 --> 01:09:30.239
years, 3 months in prison, you get out

01:09:30.239 --> 01:09:31.759
and then you're a good boy after that

01:09:31.759 --> 01:09:33.600
and you've reformed. You self

01:09:33.600 --> 01:09:35.279
rehabilitation in prison.

01:09:35.279 --> 01:09:37.759
>> Yeah. Right.

01:09:37.759 --> 01:09:39.120
>> Got out. I got out of the halfway house.

01:09:39.120 --> 01:09:40.159
When I got out of the halfway house, I

01:09:40.159 --> 01:09:41.759
got seven violations the first week I

01:09:41.759 --> 01:09:44.239
was out for drugs.

01:09:44.239 --> 01:09:46.719
Uh driving while intoxicated. Uh getting

01:09:46.719 --> 01:09:49.920
caught in a stolen car. Fucking uh but

01:09:49.920 --> 01:09:51.839
it wasn't a stolen car. It was a rental.

01:09:51.839 --> 01:09:53.359
It just didn't didn't get taken back the

01:09:53.359 --> 01:09:55.360
way it's supposed to. But being out of

01:09:55.360 --> 01:09:57.360
district, not reporting it to my

01:09:57.360 --> 01:09:59.360
probation officer, and she told me, "Mr.

01:09:59.360 --> 01:10:00.320
Michael, do you want to go to jail? You

01:10:00.320 --> 01:10:02.000
want to go back to jail or do you want

01:10:02.000 --> 01:10:03.840
to go to uh then they put me on the code

01:10:03.840 --> 01:10:05.199
shit, the color code shit, and I had to

01:10:05.199 --> 01:10:07.360
go to intensive drug treatment program,

01:10:07.360 --> 01:10:09.520
go one-on-one counseling for 6 months

01:10:09.520 --> 01:10:10.960
straight."

01:10:10.960 --> 01:10:13.360
>> Now, I think a lot of people might have

01:10:13.360 --> 01:10:14.880
gotten out early because of good

01:10:14.880 --> 01:10:17.840
behavior. It's surprising to me to that

01:10:17.840 --> 01:10:19.840
you had to serve the entire sentence.

01:10:19.840 --> 01:10:21.840
There was no good behavior for you.

01:10:21.840 --> 01:10:23.840
I discharged my my my federal sentence

01:10:23.840 --> 01:10:25.600
and my state sentence. I stayed to meet

01:10:25.600 --> 01:10:26.480
them in close custody. I'm a

01:10:26.480 --> 01:10:28.400
knucklehead.

01:10:28.400 --> 01:10:30.239
>> Yeah, I got but I didn't I didn't listen

01:10:30.239 --> 01:10:31.360
to the police in the world. Why am I

01:10:31.360 --> 01:10:32.159
going to go to prison and start

01:10:32.159 --> 01:10:33.679
listening to them?

01:10:33.679 --> 01:10:36.560
>> To get out early and see your kids.

01:10:36.560 --> 01:10:39.199
>> Yeah, but I was thinking about that. The

01:10:39.199 --> 01:10:40.400
way they treat people in prison, bro, is

01:10:40.400 --> 01:10:41.280
inhumane.

01:10:41.280 --> 01:10:43.199
>> So why if they treat animal, why aren't

01:10:43.199 --> 01:10:44.560
you going to act like an animal?

01:10:44.560 --> 01:10:46.480
>> Okay.

01:10:46.480 --> 01:10:48.480
So they leave me in a cage 20 23 hours a

01:10:48.480 --> 01:10:49.520
day and they let me out an hour day.

01:10:49.520 --> 01:10:50.560
What am I going to do when I get out for

01:10:50.560 --> 01:10:51.679
that hour?

01:10:51.679 --> 01:10:53.600
>> It's just like locking a dog in a cage

01:10:53.600 --> 01:10:55.679
for 23 hours a day and letting him out.

01:10:55.679 --> 01:10:59.440
>> All right. So you get out of prison and

01:10:59.440 --> 01:11:02.320
how does it go wrong after that?

01:11:02.320 --> 01:11:06.320
>> Well, I I got a girl pregnant and uh I

01:11:06.320 --> 01:11:08.800
had like I was at the hotel and I bro I

01:11:08.800 --> 01:11:10.719
was sitting there one day. I was like,

01:11:10.719 --> 01:11:12.320
"Man,

01:11:12.320 --> 01:11:13.840
I had three different businesses in in

01:11:13.840 --> 01:11:15.760
three different rooms, not knowing what

01:11:15.760 --> 01:11:18.080
to do >> in one hotel."

01:11:18.080 --> 01:11:18.560
>> Yeah,

01:11:18.560 --> 01:11:21.040
>> man. You how what's what's the secret to

01:11:21.040 --> 01:11:23.600
your RZ? How are you attracting so many

01:11:23.600 --> 01:11:25.040
of these girls?

01:11:25.040 --> 01:11:26.719
>> What's crazy is, bro, like my brother

01:11:26.719 --> 01:11:27.840
always ask me the same thing. He's like,

01:11:27.840 --> 01:11:28.800
"How do you get so much pussy? How do

01:11:28.800 --> 01:11:30.400
you get so I don't know, bro? I don't go

01:11:30.400 --> 01:11:32.560
chasing pussy, bro. It's just like I I

01:11:32.560 --> 01:11:33.760
always That's what I always tell people.

01:11:33.760 --> 01:11:35.760
I pose and get chose. I just chill and

01:11:35.760 --> 01:11:38.480
be still, bro. It comes to me. It's

01:11:38.480 --> 01:11:42.400
crazy. posing good shows.

01:11:42.400 --> 01:11:43.920
I'm going to try that. I'll see if it

01:11:43.920 --> 01:11:44.800
works.

01:11:44.800 --> 01:11:46.480
>> I mean, it works. Like, uh, me and my

01:11:46.480 --> 01:11:47.840
girlfriend broke up four months ago and

01:11:47.840 --> 01:11:49.120
I've been she's been dragging me for

01:11:49.120 --> 01:11:51.920
four months and, uh, I I finally cut her

01:11:51.920 --> 01:11:54.080
completely off the about a week ago and,

01:11:54.080 --> 01:11:57.360
uh, I got two chicks already, like uh,

01:11:57.360 --> 01:12:04.400
45 and I'm still upgrading.

01:12:04.400 --> 01:12:07.120
Okay. So, you're in a hotel with three

01:12:07.120 --> 01:12:09.840
three different ladies in the hotel and

01:12:09.840 --> 01:12:11.280
you're looking at it like, "Man, how am

01:12:11.280 --> 01:12:15.040
I supposed to juggle this? Keep going."

01:12:15.040 --> 01:12:17.920
Yeah. So, it's like,

01:12:17.920 --> 01:12:19.120
you know, and then uh the guy that was

01:12:19.120 --> 01:12:21.040
down here at the lake with us, uh he was

01:12:21.040 --> 01:12:22.480
originally involved in our fucking uh

01:12:22.480 --> 01:12:23.840
fed case, but he didn't tell. He was one

01:12:23.840 --> 01:12:24.880
of the ones that didn't tell. Stayed

01:12:24.880 --> 01:12:27.120
stiff and uh starts fucking with him

01:12:27.120 --> 01:12:28.719
again. And then me and him are out in

01:12:28.719 --> 01:12:30.320
fucking Fort Worth. We're going to

01:12:30.320 --> 01:12:31.920
Chili's cuz they had them kiosk where

01:12:31.920 --> 01:12:33.679
you just swipe right at the fucking uh

01:12:33.679 --> 01:12:35.199
table.

01:12:35.199 --> 01:12:37.199
Yeah. So, despite serving four years in

01:12:37.199 --> 01:12:39.440
prison, Nathan went right back to

01:12:39.440 --> 01:12:41.679
carding, getting stolen credit cards,

01:12:41.679 --> 01:12:43.440
printing them on blank cards, and using

01:12:43.440 --> 01:12:45.840
them to buy stuff in the stores himself.

01:12:45.840 --> 01:12:47.520
He was doing all his old tricks, wearing

01:12:47.520 --> 01:12:49.199
disguises and buying gift cards from

01:12:49.199 --> 01:12:51.360
Home Depot and Walmart. Oh, yeah. And

01:12:51.360 --> 01:12:53.199
using them to get free food at Chili

01:12:53.199 --> 01:12:55.280
since the ordering system is right there

01:12:55.280 --> 01:12:57.440
at the table. Um, you could just keep

01:12:57.440 --> 01:12:59.040
trying different cards until you find

01:12:59.040 --> 01:13:00.800
one that actually works and pays for

01:13:00.800 --> 01:13:02.480
your food without the server getting

01:13:02.480 --> 01:13:04.640
suspicious. Right. So, he's riding in

01:13:04.640 --> 01:13:06.800
the car with this guy and they're on

01:13:06.800 --> 01:13:08.640
their way to get food at Chili's.

01:13:08.640 --> 01:13:11.040
>> Like, we're we're turning uh on to get

01:13:11.040 --> 01:13:12.560
onto the highway and he runs a red light

01:13:12.560 --> 01:13:14.080
with three cops parked at the red light

01:13:14.080 --> 01:13:16.640
right across street. The dude dude ended

01:13:16.640 --> 01:13:19.520
up being a snitch, right? Uh my

01:13:19.520 --> 01:13:21.360
brother's got a couple pinning felonies

01:13:21.360 --> 01:13:23.440
uh because of him right now. And my

01:13:23.440 --> 01:13:24.480
brother kept fucking with the dude and I

01:13:24.480 --> 01:13:25.600
told my brother the whole time that he

01:13:25.600 --> 01:13:26.960
snitch and snitch because everybody

01:13:26.960 --> 01:13:28.480
everybody, you know, people talk.

01:13:28.480 --> 01:13:30.159
>> You said he was a stiff guy though and

01:13:30.159 --> 01:13:32.560
he didn't though. But he end up he's not

01:13:32.560 --> 01:13:34.000
stiff now.

01:13:34.000 --> 01:13:35.360
>> Well, he was just he was just in another

01:13:35.360 --> 01:13:37.199
state in like Virginia or somewhere and

01:13:37.199 --> 01:13:38.800
he was in there for like three felonies

01:13:38.800 --> 01:13:40.080
like Larsson and a whole bunch of other

01:13:40.080 --> 01:13:41.679
shit. And he said they gave him time

01:13:41.679 --> 01:13:43.840
served in county for felonies. Where the

01:13:43.840 --> 01:13:46.320
fuck do they do that at?

01:13:46.320 --> 01:13:49.360
>> Oh yeah. County is not a felony place.

01:13:49.360 --> 01:13:50.800
>> You can't you can't you can't serve your

01:13:50.800 --> 01:13:52.239
time. You can't serve felony time in

01:13:52.239 --> 01:13:54.000
county. >> No.

01:13:54.000 --> 01:13:56.159
>> I don't think anywhere. I mean I stud

01:13:56.159 --> 01:13:57.840
>> I can imagine like maybe a few weeks

01:13:57.840 --> 01:13:59.120
before they transfer you to the right

01:13:59.120 --> 01:14:01.040
place but not your whole duration. You

01:14:01.040 --> 01:14:02.560
might get time credited towards your

01:14:02.560 --> 01:14:04.080
Philly, but you're not going to do your

01:14:04.080 --> 01:14:05.679
Philly time there.

01:14:05.679 --> 01:14:08.000
>> I agree with you.

01:14:08.000 --> 01:14:10.960
>> And then then he went to Alabama

01:14:10.960 --> 01:14:11.520
back here.

01:14:11.520 --> 01:14:13.360
>> Okay. So, was this guy high or stoned

01:14:13.360 --> 01:14:15.440
when he was driving around like that?

01:14:15.440 --> 01:14:16.480
>> Yeah, of course we were. I was I was

01:14:16.480 --> 01:14:19.040
hauling GHB and uh I don't He was

01:14:19.040 --> 01:14:21.199
hauling fucking Mass and GHB probably.

01:14:21.199 --> 01:14:22.560
>> All right. So, you're leaving Chili's.

01:14:22.560 --> 01:14:25.040
You're speeding through Chili.

01:14:25.040 --> 01:14:26.719
>> Going to Chili's going through red

01:14:26.719 --> 01:14:29.360
lights right past cop cars. Keep going.

01:14:29.360 --> 01:14:31.360
I pulls right pull in right behind us.

01:14:31.360 --> 01:14:32.800
Turn the turn lights on. He pulls right

01:14:32.800 --> 01:14:34.640
over. Don't even fucking drive 5 ft. He

01:14:34.640 --> 01:14:38.800
pull slams on the brake. Pulls over.

01:14:38.800 --> 01:14:40.560
I I I got rid of all my cars, bro. The

01:14:40.560 --> 01:14:41.760
cops didn't catch me with no car. They

01:14:41.760 --> 01:14:44.000
can catch me with no plastic.

01:14:44.000 --> 01:14:45.760
>> You threw out the window?

01:14:45.760 --> 01:14:47.520
>> No, I put them down the side the side of

01:14:47.520 --> 01:14:49.040
the window. Got into the door.

01:14:49.040 --> 01:14:51.280
>> Oh, smart. Yeah. Right in the glass.

01:14:51.280 --> 01:14:51.840
Okay.

01:14:51.840 --> 01:14:54.640
>> Yep. Yep. They didn't catch me no cards.

01:14:54.640 --> 01:14:57.679
They didn't catch me no gift cards.

01:14:57.679 --> 01:14:59.199
I got rid of everything. They caught

01:14:59.199 --> 01:15:00.800
them. They caught my codependence with

01:15:00.800 --> 01:15:02.960
everything. Uh, I got eight years. They

01:15:02.960 --> 01:15:05.440
got 10 years deferred. Uh, probation.

01:15:05.440 --> 01:15:06.960
Probation has never been optioned for

01:15:06.960 --> 01:15:08.880
me. They've never given me probation or

01:15:08.880 --> 01:15:10.320
offered me probation.

01:15:10.320 --> 01:15:12.000
>> Wait, so when the car got pulled over,

01:15:12.000 --> 01:15:14.080
is that when you went to jail or you got

01:15:14.080 --> 01:15:14.480
off?

01:15:14.480 --> 01:15:16.239
>> Yeah, I went to jail that night.

01:15:16.239 --> 01:15:17.679
>> Well, how how because you didn't have

01:15:17.679 --> 01:15:19.199
the cards? How' they How' they know it

01:15:19.199 --> 01:15:20.000
was you?

01:15:20.000 --> 01:15:22.159
>> The cops got the receipts and they were

01:15:22.159 --> 01:15:24.480
just the car's packed full of shit.

01:15:24.480 --> 01:15:27.040
>> Yeah. you uh name

01:15:27.040 --> 01:15:28.320
>> that was just what the last place we

01:15:28.320 --> 01:15:31.120
went was Home Depot and so we just got

01:15:31.120 --> 01:15:32.640
all this shit and they end up opening up

01:15:32.640 --> 01:15:34.239
a box, a security camera box. We got the

01:15:34.239 --> 01:15:37.360
MSR in it and shit and they just they

01:15:37.360 --> 01:15:39.120
they they run my name and they see what

01:15:39.120 --> 01:15:40.400
I was in federal prison for and they're

01:15:40.400 --> 01:15:41.520
like, "What's the access to device

01:15:41.520 --> 01:15:42.800
fraud?"

01:15:42.800 --> 01:15:44.159
>> So they always ask me every time I get

01:15:44.159 --> 01:15:46.080
pulled over,

01:15:46.080 --> 01:15:48.000
>> what's the access to wife fraud? You

01:15:48.000 --> 01:15:49.520
ever lose your credit card or it gets

01:15:49.520 --> 01:15:53.040
stolen? [Music]

01:15:53.040 --> 01:15:55.280
It's interesting how vivid Nathan's

01:15:55.280 --> 01:15:57.440
memories are in those moments right

01:15:57.440 --> 01:16:00.000
before being arrested. That must be like

01:16:00.000 --> 01:16:02.000
a flashbold moment for a lot of people,

01:16:02.000 --> 01:16:04.159
you know, like you remember it so

01:16:04.159 --> 01:16:06.719
perfectly clear. It's almost like those

01:16:06.719 --> 01:16:08.640
are the last moments of freedom that his

01:16:08.640 --> 01:16:11.199
brain holds on to or maybe he replays

01:16:11.199 --> 01:16:12.719
those moments again and again in his

01:16:12.719 --> 01:16:15.120
head to try to think what he could have

01:16:15.120 --> 01:16:16.960
done differently.

01:16:16.960 --> 01:16:19.360
Anyway, the cops found swiping equipment

01:16:19.360 --> 01:16:21.600
in the car and quickly put the pieces

01:16:21.600 --> 01:16:23.840
together that he was still due in

01:16:23.840 --> 01:16:26.560
swiping. So, they arrested him and took

01:16:26.560 --> 01:16:29.679
him to jail again. This time, he plead

01:16:29.679 --> 01:16:32.159
guilty and they sentenced him to 8 years

01:16:32.159 --> 01:16:34.719
in prison. And the main crime they were

01:16:34.719 --> 01:16:37.120
saying he did is that he swiped a stolen

01:16:37.120 --> 01:16:40.320
card at Home Depot and bought $2,200

01:16:40.320 --> 01:16:42.719
worth of gift cards. Okay. So, this is

01:16:42.719 --> 01:16:44.880
the second time you go to prison.

01:16:44.880 --> 01:16:45.199
>> Yeah. Yeah.

01:16:45.199 --> 01:16:46.960
>> Eight years they put you in for for

01:16:46.960 --> 01:16:49.600
$2,200. Like there's that's a lot for

01:16:49.600 --> 01:16:51.600
just such a small amount.

01:16:51.600 --> 01:16:53.760
>> I mean, but they know I was doing more

01:16:53.760 --> 01:16:55.679
than that though.

01:16:55.679 --> 01:16:57.679
>> So what they I mean what

01:16:57.679 --> 01:17:00.640
>> it's not like Texas Texas the I mean you

01:17:00.640 --> 01:17:02.960
know how fucked up the legal system is.

01:17:02.960 --> 01:17:05.199
It's fucked up in every state. I'm sure

01:17:05.199 --> 01:17:07.760
>> it is. But um what were they saying your

01:17:07.760 --> 01:17:09.600
charges were? I mean it wasn't just the

01:17:09.600 --> 01:17:10.640
2200

01:17:10.640 --> 01:17:13.760
>> swiping for 2200. Uh they they charged

01:17:13.760 --> 01:17:17.440
me with engaging or criminal activity.

01:17:17.440 --> 01:17:19.120
>> Mhm. But

01:17:19.120 --> 01:17:20.480
>> so it was your felony.

01:17:20.480 --> 01:17:22.159
>> The f the first one was they were saying

01:17:22.159 --> 01:17:23.679
you did a million dollars in damage.

01:17:23.679 --> 01:17:25.679
What were they saying here?

01:17:25.679 --> 01:17:26.880
>> They didn't say nothing. They just said

01:17:26.880 --> 01:17:28.640
$2,200 was shit from fucking

01:17:28.640 --> 01:17:30.560
>> I It's just so hard that there's eight

01:17:30.560 --> 01:17:33.520
years in prison for $2,200 stolen.

01:17:33.520 --> 01:17:35.040
>> Tell me about it. But because they

01:17:35.040 --> 01:17:36.239
didn't charge me see like if I would

01:17:36.239 --> 01:17:37.280
have got caught in Dallas, bro, they

01:17:37.280 --> 01:17:39.120
would have charged me with uh credit

01:17:39.120 --> 01:17:40.719
card fraud and abuse. It would have been

01:17:40.719 --> 01:17:42.800
a state jail felony. maximum two years.

01:17:42.800 --> 01:17:44.800
>> Mhm. But since I was out there and I got

01:17:44.800 --> 01:17:45.840
caught with two other people, they're

01:17:45.840 --> 01:17:47.040
doing this shit in Texas now and they're

01:17:47.040 --> 01:17:48.400
charging people with basically

01:17:48.400 --> 01:17:51.760
conspiracy in the state and it's it's

01:17:51.760 --> 01:17:53.600
crazy. At that time, it's not a dollar

01:17:53.600 --> 01:17:57.679
amount anymore. See, so like it goes up

01:17:57.679 --> 01:17:59.920
and higher towards how much the dollar

01:17:59.920 --> 01:18:02.320
amount it is, but once you're charged,

01:18:02.320 --> 01:18:04.159
once you get the enhancement of engaging

01:18:04.159 --> 01:18:06.960
or criminal activity,

01:18:06.960 --> 01:18:08.320
it's enhanced from a second degree

01:18:08.320 --> 01:18:10.400
felony to a first degree felony. And

01:18:10.400 --> 01:18:13.440
then therefore time.

01:18:13.440 --> 01:18:15.040
>> Geez, man. Okay.

01:18:15.040 --> 01:18:16.560
>> They're they're trying to give me 15,

01:18:16.560 --> 01:18:18.640
bro. >> 15.

01:18:18.640 --> 01:18:20.560
>> My homeboy paid $10,000 for a lawyer for

01:18:20.560 --> 01:18:24.080
me in the state. And uh they they uh

01:18:24.080 --> 01:18:25.920
they came down to eight. So I took the

01:18:25.920 --> 01:18:26.640
eight

01:18:26.640 --> 01:18:29.679
>> and you went to prison for eight years.

01:18:29.679 --> 01:18:31.520
>> Yeah.

01:18:31.520 --> 01:18:34.159
>> And self-reformed while there and got

01:18:34.159 --> 01:18:36.480
out and now you're a good boy.

01:18:36.480 --> 01:18:37.600
>> Now I'm a good boy.

01:18:37.600 --> 01:18:41.600
>> Okay, we made it.

01:18:41.600 --> 01:18:44.239
Is it true? Are you doing good now?

01:18:44.239 --> 01:18:46.080
>> Everything I do now is ethical.

01:18:46.080 --> 01:18:49.520
>> Okay. So that that's

01:18:49.520 --> 01:18:52.159
>> but you know it took all all that and

01:18:52.159 --> 01:18:53.520
all the trauma that I went through and

01:18:53.520 --> 01:18:54.800
what happened to my kids while I was in

01:18:54.800 --> 01:18:55.920
prison and my dad died while I was in

01:18:55.920 --> 01:18:57.199
prison and everything for me to finally

01:18:57.199 --> 01:18:58.480
wake up.

01:18:58.480 --> 01:19:00.960
>> What happens to your dad?

01:19:00.960 --> 01:19:03.280
>> My dad died when I was in prison. Bro,

01:19:03.280 --> 01:19:05.440
it was horrible. like two worst fears

01:19:05.440 --> 01:19:06.800
that was something happened to my kids

01:19:06.800 --> 01:19:08.239
and I'm not being there when I when I

01:19:08.239 --> 01:19:09.679
was in prison and then something

01:19:09.679 --> 01:19:10.719
happened to one of my parents while I

01:19:10.719 --> 01:19:12.080
was in prison and something happened to

01:19:12.080 --> 01:19:13.440
my kids while I was in prison and my dad

01:19:13.440 --> 01:19:14.719
died while I was in prison. My two worst

01:19:14.719 --> 01:19:16.560
fears came to fruition while I was in

01:19:16.560 --> 01:19:17.760
prison the second time.

01:19:17.760 --> 01:19:20.239
>> Um how did your dad die?

01:19:20.239 --> 01:19:22.159
>> Uh he had a heart attack I think. I

01:19:22.159 --> 01:19:23.679
mean, he was in the hospital and like

01:19:23.679 --> 01:19:25.120
his blood was septic and shit. Like, he

01:19:25.120 --> 01:19:27.199
had a bad heart. Like, he had uh uh

01:19:27.199 --> 01:19:29.679
health conditions for like 15 years.

01:19:29.679 --> 01:19:31.600
Pretty much his heart, he wouldn't quit

01:19:31.600 --> 01:19:32.880
eating salt, bro.

01:19:32.880 --> 01:19:34.480
>> That's awful, man. I'm sorry you went

01:19:34.480 --> 01:19:36.320
through that.

01:19:36.320 --> 01:19:39.840
>> Yeah, that that that uh you know, uh he

01:19:39.840 --> 01:19:41.360
always promised he'd be there and shit.

01:19:41.360 --> 01:19:42.480
At the end of the day, I took peace in

01:19:42.480 --> 01:19:43.600
it because I knew my dad loved me and I

01:19:43.600 --> 01:19:45.280
know he knows I loved him. So, I I found

01:19:45.280 --> 01:19:47.440
peace in it in that. But that I never

01:19:47.440 --> 01:19:48.960
have to ask the questions that you

01:19:48.960 --> 01:19:50.080
always want to ask your dad when you get

01:19:50.080 --> 01:19:52.000
older, you know? >> Yeah.

01:19:52.000 --> 01:19:56.960
Yeah. Yeah. >> Questions.

01:19:56.960 --> 01:20:02.320
>> Okay. Um, god damn.

01:20:02.320 --> 01:20:04.560
>> It's crazy. And that that just a

01:20:04.560 --> 01:20:06.800
snippet. That's just a that's just a one

01:20:06.800 --> 01:20:09.360
uh moment. That's just a blip on the

01:20:09.360 --> 01:20:11.040
radar.

01:20:11.040 --> 01:20:13.280
I was mature at a lot your older ages

01:20:13.280 --> 01:20:15.280
and women like I don't I don't think it

01:20:15.280 --> 01:20:17.360
finally clicked for me until I was about

01:20:17.360 --> 01:20:20.560
38. So,

01:20:20.560 --> 01:20:23.520
did you uh serve all eight years?

01:20:23.520 --> 01:20:24.320
>> Yeah.

01:20:24.320 --> 01:20:26.159
>> And I went back for violation after that

01:20:26.159 --> 01:20:27.360
and they fucking held me for another

01:20:27.360 --> 01:20:29.679
fucking four months. Cocks

01:20:29.679 --> 01:20:33.600
>> for violation. Yeah. Um so that's uh 4

01:20:33.600 --> 01:20:36.159
years plus 8 years. That's 12 12 years.

01:20:36.159 --> 01:20:37.520
>> Like with the extra time that I had to

01:20:37.520 --> 01:20:38.960
do for the violation, all the extra days

01:20:38.960 --> 01:20:40.800
and shit is closer. I was pretty much

01:20:40.800 --> 01:20:41.760
about 13 years.

01:20:41.760 --> 01:20:43.440
>> Yeah. 13 years. And I was thinking you

01:20:43.440 --> 01:20:46.000
have three kids now and two of those

01:20:46.000 --> 01:20:48.719
were there for the first one and one was

01:20:48.719 --> 01:20:50.640
there for the second, right? So that's

01:20:50.640 --> 01:20:52.400
>> Well, no, all three of them were there.

01:20:52.400 --> 01:20:54.320
My my my 16-year-old that's here with me

01:20:54.320 --> 01:20:56.880
today, she was there. She was like one

01:20:56.880 --> 01:20:58.800
year and two months when I got arrested

01:20:58.800 --> 01:21:01.120
and went to the feds. I miss her whole

01:21:01.120 --> 01:21:02.480
>> I missed her whole life.

01:21:02.480 --> 01:21:03.760
>> Yeah. Yeah. That

01:21:03.760 --> 01:21:05.120
>> the middle one was three when I first

01:21:05.120 --> 01:21:07.120
got locked up and the oldest one was six

01:21:07.120 --> 01:21:08.400
when I first got locked up. All my kids

01:21:08.400 --> 01:21:09.600
are three years apart.

01:21:09.600 --> 01:21:12.800
>> Mhm. Yeah. That's a huge gap to not see

01:21:12.800 --> 01:21:15.280
that. That must be really hard.

01:21:15.280 --> 01:21:16.960
>> That's the That's the hardest part right

01:21:16.960 --> 01:21:19.760
there. That's the hardest part cuz you

01:21:19.760 --> 01:21:21.920
can't ever get time back.

01:21:21.920 --> 01:21:23.199
>> And now they're grown and doing their

01:21:23.199 --> 01:21:24.480
own thing. So you don't get the time

01:21:24.480 --> 01:21:26.880
that you want. You know what I mean?

01:21:26.880 --> 01:21:28.640
>> Well, yeah. Yeah. They're on their own

01:21:28.640 --> 01:21:30.080
schedule now.

01:21:30.080 --> 01:21:34.000
>> Yeah. But uh you know, I'm I'm in their

01:21:34.000 --> 01:21:35.600
life and uh we have good uh

01:21:35.600 --> 01:21:38.080
relationships. Uh at least I do for I do

01:21:38.080 --> 01:21:39.520
I have good relationships with the

01:21:39.520 --> 01:21:41.440
youngest and the oldest for sure. The

01:21:41.440 --> 01:21:43.280
middle one uh she still has a lot of

01:21:43.280 --> 01:21:46.159
resentment. She's uh but she'll get

01:21:46.159 --> 01:21:47.440
there. >> Okay.

01:21:47.440 --> 01:21:49.360
>> You know, their their mother painted a

01:21:49.360 --> 01:21:51.440
bad picture of me. Uh she made me look

01:21:51.440 --> 01:21:53.520
like the monster and uh what it was is

01:21:53.520 --> 01:21:55.760
we were both young and stupid at the end

01:21:55.760 --> 01:21:57.600
of the day, you know, and we both made

01:21:57.600 --> 01:21:59.360
bad decisions. Neither one of us were

01:21:59.360 --> 01:22:02.239
perfect. That's the reality of it. And

01:22:02.239 --> 01:22:03.920
uh but I take responsibility for all of

01:22:03.920 --> 01:22:05.520
it because I'm the man, you know what I

01:22:05.520 --> 01:22:09.199
mean? Okay. Yeah. I mean, the the mom

01:22:09.199 --> 01:22:12.560
was part of that Walmart scam anyway, so

01:22:12.560 --> 01:22:14.880
I know that she's not the focused on

01:22:14.880 --> 01:22:19.360
each other and all that shit. You know

01:22:19.360 --> 01:22:21.920
>> what a crazy story.

01:22:21.920 --> 01:22:24.000
>> I know, man. Like fucking And you know,

01:22:24.000 --> 01:22:25.280
all I want to do now is like when we

01:22:25.280 --> 01:22:27.040
were kids, real growing up, we didn't

01:22:27.040 --> 01:22:28.480
have nobody to look up to.

01:22:28.480 --> 01:22:29.440
>> Yeah.

01:22:29.440 --> 01:22:31.760
>> We didn't have hackers that fucking been

01:22:31.760 --> 01:22:33.120
doing this shit their whole lives to

01:22:33.120 --> 01:22:35.360
look up to because it started with us.

01:22:35.360 --> 01:22:36.560
You telling me you're going to be the

01:22:36.560 --> 01:22:37.840
you want to be someone that people look

01:22:37.840 --> 01:22:39.120
up to?

01:22:39.120 --> 01:22:40.480
>> I want I want to be the one that helps

01:22:40.480 --> 01:22:42.080
save the world and I want to help kids.

01:22:42.080 --> 01:22:43.840
>> I want to help children, bro. I want to

01:22:43.840 --> 01:22:45.280
help kids.

01:22:45.280 --> 01:22:47.440
>> You I make the world a better place. I'm

01:22:47.440 --> 01:22:48.159
I'm going come out with the first

01:22:48.159 --> 01:22:49.440
jailbreak for the fucking robots, bro.

01:22:49.440 --> 01:22:52.719
You better buy my shit.

01:22:52.719 --> 01:22:54.159
I'm start preaching on the jailbreak for

01:22:54.159 --> 01:22:58.960
robots right now.

01:22:58.960 --> 01:23:00.719
>> Okay. You're going to save us from the

01:23:00.719 --> 01:23:03.920
robots that are going to save us from

01:23:03.920 --> 01:23:05.760
the digital world. That could be a fair

01:23:05.760 --> 01:23:07.040
redemption.

01:23:07.040 --> 01:23:08.320
>> When the robots turn on us and the

01:23:08.320 --> 01:23:09.600
computers turn on us, who's going to

01:23:09.600 --> 01:23:11.120
save us? It's not going to be fucking

01:23:11.120 --> 01:23:12.480
Joe down the street that's working on

01:23:12.480 --> 01:23:14.480
your car.

01:23:14.480 --> 01:23:15.920
>> Going to be cook at McDonald's that's

01:23:15.920 --> 01:23:18.800
making your burger.

01:23:18.800 --> 01:23:20.320
>> It's going to be

01:23:20.320 --> 01:23:21.840
>> It's Well, not just me. It's going to be

01:23:21.840 --> 01:23:24.880
all of us.

01:23:24.880 --> 01:23:27.520
>> Okay. Well, I I I will buy your shit

01:23:27.520 --> 01:23:29.360
when it comes

01:23:29.360 --> 01:23:30.719
>> the robots could just take over and just

01:23:30.719 --> 01:23:32.080
kill us all.

01:23:32.080 --> 01:23:34.480
>> No. No. You got to save us now. I'm I'm

01:23:34.480 --> 01:23:35.360
hoping you're going to do it.

01:23:35.360 --> 01:23:38.880
>> AI AI. We have a 50% chance to survive

01:23:38.880 --> 01:23:40.880
AI and we have a 50% chance to survive

01:23:40.880 --> 01:23:44.320
robots. >> Okay.

01:23:44.320 --> 01:23:46.000
I think if you've survived all this,

01:23:46.000 --> 01:23:47.360
then you've got a fair chance of

01:23:47.360 --> 01:23:49.360
surviving the rest of whatever's coming.

01:23:49.360 --> 01:23:52.239
I don't know how you made it this far.

01:23:52.239 --> 01:23:53.760
>> I mean, cuz I wake up every day with a

01:23:53.760 --> 01:23:55.199
smile on my face, no matter what

01:23:55.199 --> 01:23:56.159
happened the day before.

01:23:56.159 --> 01:23:57.520
>> How many times did you come close to

01:23:57.520 --> 01:23:59.120
dying in your life?

01:23:59.120 --> 01:24:00.719
>> I was in a coma when I first got out. I

01:24:00.719 --> 01:24:02.480
had overdosed and I by the time I got to

01:24:02.480 --> 01:24:06.159
the hospital I was uh breathing at 30%.

01:24:06.159 --> 01:24:08.960
Uh so they put me in a uh induced coma

01:24:08.960 --> 01:24:11.600
and when I tried waking up I went crazy

01:24:11.600 --> 01:24:14.159
on them and tried fighting them all.

01:24:14.159 --> 01:24:16.239
>> Yeah. I I couldn't feel my legs so I set

01:24:16.239 --> 01:24:17.520
up in my bed and told them to lie. I

01:24:17.520 --> 01:24:18.639
thought I was having flashbacks. I was

01:24:18.639 --> 01:24:20.560
in prison. I ripped my restraints off

01:24:20.560 --> 01:24:21.760
and everything. They they had to have

01:24:21.760 --> 01:24:23.040
like eight people hold me down and hit

01:24:23.040 --> 01:24:26.480
me with like three uh uh uh things to

01:24:26.480 --> 01:24:28.239
put me to sleep and then fucking they

01:24:28.239 --> 01:24:29.679
got off of me and they started tying me

01:24:29.679 --> 01:24:30.880
back up and I woke back up on their

01:24:30.880 --> 01:24:31.840
bitch ass.

01:24:31.840 --> 01:24:33.840
>> Jesus. Okay, so that was one time being

01:24:33.840 --> 01:24:35.920
close to death. Any other times?

01:24:35.920 --> 01:24:37.840
>> Uh when I was probably about 15 huffing

01:24:37.840 --> 01:24:41.600
some uh uh air from from from uh you

01:24:41.600 --> 01:24:43.280
know I had a little airsoft gun

01:24:43.280 --> 01:24:46.239
>> that I I mean uh to uh paint model cars

01:24:46.239 --> 01:24:48.239
with. >> Yeah.

01:24:48.239 --> 01:24:50.080
And uh I was choking the air and my dad

01:24:50.080 --> 01:24:51.280
woke me up and I was choking on my

01:24:51.280 --> 01:24:53.360
throat up. My bed was covered in throw

01:24:53.360 --> 01:24:54.800
up and I was laying on my back. I'd have

01:24:54.800 --> 01:24:56.000
died if my dad didn't wake up and come

01:24:56.000 --> 01:24:56.960
get me.

01:24:56.960 --> 01:24:58.239
>> Yeah. See, this is what I mean. Like

01:24:58.239 --> 01:24:59.840
you've survived all these things. Not

01:24:59.840 --> 01:25:01.520
only that, but all the shootings in your

01:25:01.520 --> 01:25:04.639
neighborhood and the probably stabbings

01:25:04.639 --> 01:25:06.239
in prison.

01:25:06.239 --> 01:25:08.880
>> Miss and stab. Prison was the worst.

01:25:08.880 --> 01:25:10.159
Like when we first got to Leworth, there

01:25:10.159 --> 01:25:11.120
was fixing to be a riot between the

01:25:11.120 --> 01:25:15.600
Sangos and the whites and uh over TV.

01:25:15.600 --> 01:25:17.120
>> Yeah. Yeah. And I made there's probably

01:25:17.120 --> 01:25:19.360
about at least we made probably about

01:25:19.360 --> 01:25:21.040
200 steaks that night.

01:25:21.040 --> 01:25:24.159
>> Look like vampire steaks, but uh knives.

01:25:24.159 --> 01:25:26.239
>> Jeez. And now your your arrival. And

01:25:26.239 --> 01:25:28.080
they're like, "You got to join a side.

01:25:28.080 --> 01:25:31.360
Come on. We're fixing for war." Jesus

01:25:31.360 --> 01:25:32.800
Christ. What a way to join.

01:25:32.800 --> 01:25:34.239
>> There you get pushed over. Like it's

01:25:34.239 --> 01:25:35.840
just like in the world. You're in a

01:25:35.840 --> 01:25:36.960
shark full of tanks. You gonna be a

01:25:36.960 --> 01:25:38.719
guppy or you gonna become a shark.

01:25:38.719 --> 01:25:41.440
>> Oh man. Yeah. I mean, that's what I'm

01:25:41.440 --> 01:25:43.280
saying is if you've survived all that,

01:25:43.280 --> 01:25:44.719
then I think that you're good for the

01:25:44.719 --> 01:25:46.080
rest of your life. You've you've uh

01:25:46.080 --> 01:25:48.480
cashed in all your lucky chips 3 years

01:25:48.480 --> 01:25:50.480
now. So my recidivism rate of going back

01:25:50.480 --> 01:25:52.239
to prison is pretty fucking low.

01:25:52.239 --> 01:25:54.480
>> Yeah. Yeah. And your your survival rate

01:25:54.480 --> 01:25:56.159
is pretty high. You've gone through the

01:25:56.159 --> 01:25:57.679
worst things of your life and you're

01:25:57.679 --> 01:25:59.199
still doing good. I mean, you're still

01:25:59.199 --> 01:25:59.840
alive.

01:25:59.840 --> 01:26:00.719
>> I'm not doing good. I'm still

01:26:00.719 --> 01:26:01.520
struggling. You know what I'm saying?

01:26:01.520 --> 01:26:03.600
But I'm free. I got my freedom. I got my

01:26:03.600 --> 01:26:05.760
health and uh I got I got the people

01:26:05.760 --> 01:26:07.520
that love me around me. You know what

01:26:07.520 --> 01:26:09.280
I'm saying? So that's my blue. That's my

01:26:09.280 --> 01:26:10.159
my zen.

01:26:10.159 --> 01:26:12.560
>> I say we leave it as that. walking it

01:26:12.560 --> 01:26:15.760
walking off into the sunset um with your

01:26:15.760 --> 01:26:18.159
loved ones near you.

01:26:18.159 --> 01:26:19.440
>> It was good talking to you.

01:26:19.440 --> 01:26:21.120
>> All right, man. Thanks for sharing your

01:26:21.120 --> 01:26:22.400
story. >> Bye.

01:26:22.400 --> 01:26:25.100
>> Have a good one. Bye.

01:26:25.100 --> 01:26:33.840
[Music]

01:26:33.840 --> 01:26:35.760
>> Thank you so much to Nathan Michael for

01:26:35.760 --> 01:26:38.080
sharing this story with us. What a wild

01:26:38.080 --> 01:26:40.960
life he's lived. and he's only 45 now,

01:26:40.960 --> 01:26:42.560
so he's got a great big life ahead of

01:26:42.560 --> 01:26:45.120
him. And I'm certain it'll be dramaree

01:26:45.120 --> 01:26:48.000
from here on out. I've got your next

01:26:48.000 --> 01:26:50.639
favorite shirt already. It's at

01:26:50.639 --> 01:26:53.600
shop.darknet diaries.com. Have you

01:26:53.600 --> 01:26:55.920
looked at the shirts there? If not, why

01:26:55.920 --> 01:26:58.400
not? I mean, I'm telling you right now,

01:26:58.400 --> 01:27:01.440
I made a special shirt just for you, and

01:27:01.440 --> 01:27:03.120
I want you to go there and see if you

01:27:03.120 --> 01:27:05.040
can find it. It will be the one that you

01:27:05.040 --> 01:27:07.040
absolutely love as soon as you see it.

01:27:07.040 --> 01:27:09.280
And the show is also brought to you by

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our premium supporters who donate each

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01:27:13.280 --> 01:27:16.159
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01:27:22.480 --> 01:27:24.239
you value, please consider supporting

01:27:24.239 --> 01:27:28.480
it. Just go to plus.darknetdiaries.com.

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The show is made by me, Lil Bite, Jackie

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Cider. Our editor is the keystroker

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Tristan Ledger. Mixing done by Proximity

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Sound and our theme music is by

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Breakmaster Cylinder. Knock knock. Who's

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there? Dishes. Dishes. Who? Dishes.

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Darknet Diaries. [Music]