WEBVTT 00:00:01.250 --> 00:00:03.440 JACK: How persuadable are you? 00:00:03.440 --> 00:00:07.550 I think most of us think we make complete and logical decisions ourselves and weigh 00:00:07.550 --> 00:00:12.099 all the consequences and we’re not influenced by marketing campaigns. 00:00:12.099 --> 00:00:16.039 But I think overwhelmingly, we’re more persuadable than we think. 00:00:16.039 --> 00:00:18.990 There’s this mint study I find fascinating. 00:00:18.990 --> 00:00:21.609 Some psychologists did this research in restaurants. 00:00:21.609 --> 00:00:26.740 They found that if the server gave the customer a mint along with the bill, the amount of 00:00:26.740 --> 00:00:29.439 tips went up by 3%. Why? 00:00:29.439 --> 00:00:33.670 Well, it’s because the server gave them a small gift. 00:00:33.670 --> 00:00:38.870 As a human, when someone gives us something, even as small as a mint, we want to give something 00:00:38.870 --> 00:00:39.870 back. 00:00:39.870 --> 00:00:45.520 But check this out; when the server gave two mints with the bill, the tips went up by 14%. 00:00:45.520 --> 00:00:46.520 But there’s more. 00:00:46.520 --> 00:00:50.120 If the server gave one mint with the bill and then walked away but then stopped and 00:00:50.120 --> 00:00:54.920 came back and said you’re nice diners; here, take an extra mint, this resulted in tips 00:00:54.920 --> 00:00:57.200 increasing by 23%. 00:00:57.200 --> 00:00:58.530 Incredible. 00:00:58.530 --> 00:01:03.120 Such a small gift given at just the right time with the right message has quite an effect 00:01:03.120 --> 00:01:04.159 on us. 00:01:04.159 --> 00:01:07.930 See, these are the things I don’t think we’re consciously aware of. 00:01:07.930 --> 00:01:11.800 I don’t know how much I’m going to tip until I get the bill, and then I do this little 00:01:11.800 --> 00:01:13.659 math game to figure it out. 00:01:13.659 --> 00:01:19.990 If at that same time I’m also given a little gift and told something nice, yeah, I think 00:01:19.990 --> 00:01:23.840 this kind of stuff does work on me and I don’t even realize it. 00:01:23.840 --> 00:01:26.140 But those are small things. 00:01:26.140 --> 00:01:30.730 Surely I wouldn’t be so easily persuaded to do something bigger, right, like turn against 00:01:30.730 --> 00:01:34.360 my company and cause it to have major financial loss. 00:01:34.360 --> 00:01:36.750 That’s quite a big decision to make. 00:01:36.750 --> 00:01:43.250 But this story is about a guy who persuaded someone to do exactly that. 00:01:43.250 --> 00:01:51.070 (INTRO): [INTRO MUSIC] These are true stories from the dark side of the internet. 00:01:51.070 --> 00:01:56.320 I’m Jack Rhysider. 00:01:56.320 --> 00:02:00.479 This is Darknet Diaries. 00:02:00.479 --> 00:02:09.569 [INTRO MUSIC ENDS] 00:02:09.569 --> 00:02:17.480 JACK: Our story today comes from a character we’re going to refer to as Paint Parrot. 00:02:17.480 --> 00:02:20.269 It’s sort of a nickname he goes by. 00:02:20.269 --> 00:02:23.740 Paint Parrot’s a social engineer unlike any I’ve ever seen. 00:02:23.740 --> 00:02:26.750 If you don’t know what a social engineer is, it’s basically just someone who can 00:02:26.750 --> 00:02:30.849 persuade other people to do things they don’t want to do through different psychological 00:02:30.849 --> 00:02:32.000 tricks. 00:02:32.000 --> 00:02:34.740 But his story starts far away in Afghanistan. 00:02:34.740 --> 00:02:40.110 PAINT PARROT: I was in a part of the British Army called the Royal Artillery, which everyone 00:02:40.110 --> 00:02:43.630 assumes straightaway is going to be to do with big guns and things like that, but we 00:02:43.630 --> 00:02:49.030 were actually a UAV unit, so unmanned air vehicles; drones. 00:02:49.030 --> 00:02:51.560 We were a drone unit within the Royal Artillery. 00:02:51.560 --> 00:02:58.970 Our job was obviously to find, fix, finish, and build up that intelligence cycle for the 00:02:58.970 --> 00:03:03.910 guys on the ground to then go out and do operations against, I don’t know, like the Taliban, 00:03:03.910 --> 00:03:09.300 weapons caches or yeah, to try and track people planting IEDs in the roads. 00:03:09.300 --> 00:03:14.940 Or, yeah, trying to find high-value targets that Special Forces guys can knock on the 00:03:14.940 --> 00:03:16.060 door, basically. 00:03:16.060 --> 00:03:21.140 JACK: Paint Parrot said he was only in charge of unarmed drones; no predators launching 00:03:21.140 --> 00:03:22.770 missiles down on targets. 00:03:22.770 --> 00:03:26.900 Instead, they’re sort of like eyes in the sky and would watch the ground to gather as 00:03:26.900 --> 00:03:28.570 much intelligence as they could. 00:03:28.570 --> 00:03:32.980 PAINT PARROT: Yeah, it was a unique and yeah, quite exciting role. 00:03:32.980 --> 00:03:36.246 Mentally quite taxing ‘cause a lot of the time you feel like your hands are tied. 00:03:36.246 --> 00:03:39.981 You’re looking at stuff and yeah, you want to be able to do something especially when 00:03:39.981 --> 00:03:44.250 you’re seeing friendly troops getting in contact with the Taliban and you want to be 00:03:44.250 --> 00:03:46.640 able to intervene but all you can do is watch. 00:03:46.640 --> 00:03:49.569 It’s quite a surreal time. 00:03:49.569 --> 00:03:54.819 JACK: [00:05:00] What he was after was good intel that his team could use to have the 00:03:54.819 --> 00:04:00.269 upper hand which I guess is like espionage work; a spy in the sky. 00:04:00.269 --> 00:04:05.079 But after a while, he completed his duty and left the military which means he needed to 00:04:05.079 --> 00:04:07.330 find work as a civilian. 00:04:07.330 --> 00:04:10.049 At first, he assumed he would just do what a lot of his peers were doing. 00:04:10.049 --> 00:04:13.439 PAINT PARROT: Originally, I wanted to do what a lot of ex-army guys do and just be a bodyguard 00:04:13.439 --> 00:04:19.320 ‘cause it can be quite lucrative contracting in places like Iraq and Afghanistan. 00:04:19.320 --> 00:04:21.240 That was kind of the original plan. 00:04:21.240 --> 00:04:26.479 But while I was doing the training, I became good friends with the guy who ran the training 00:04:26.479 --> 00:04:31.870 company and I started out going back with him as an instructor. 00:04:31.870 --> 00:04:37.330 Then that evolved into me getting involved in some of his projects that he was doing 00:04:37.330 --> 00:04:38.330 that weren’t training. 00:04:38.330 --> 00:04:41.180 It was sort of live operations, if you will. 00:04:41.180 --> 00:04:47.810 That’s kinda how, yeah, kind of – he sort of filtered me into less bodyguard stuff and 00:04:47.810 --> 00:04:53.839 more security and risk assessments and yeah, following people and gathering evidence for 00:04:53.839 --> 00:04:57.580 – yeah, whatever, it was just normal sort of lawyer cases. 00:04:57.580 --> 00:05:01.240 I need to get information to discredit the other party. 00:05:01.240 --> 00:05:06.410 JACK: [MUSIC] Now, that’s an interesting transition, getting intel for lawyers. 00:05:06.410 --> 00:05:11.479 This is sort of like being a private eye but he’s trying to find dirt on the other side 00:05:11.479 --> 00:05:16.870 of legal cases, so he was gathering intelligence for companies, lawyers, court cases. 00:05:16.870 --> 00:05:20.310 For example, this one time he said there was a copyright infringement case. 00:05:20.310 --> 00:05:24.870 PAINT PARROT: Yeah, someone had their – they were claiming rights of intellectual properties. 00:05:24.870 --> 00:05:29.240 It’s something of a business idea. 00:05:29.240 --> 00:05:34.360 In order to try and catch the other party out, we’d organize – have a meeting in 00:05:34.360 --> 00:05:40.040 a conference room at a hotel, no lawyers present, and just the two guys that were arguing could 00:05:40.040 --> 00:05:41.639 talk it out and hash it out. 00:05:41.639 --> 00:05:48.840 What we had actually done is bugged the room and had our lawyer basically downstairs listening 00:05:48.840 --> 00:05:55.190 to the audio and kind of baited the other guy into admitting that he had stolen the 00:05:55.190 --> 00:05:59.050 intellectual property and bragging that he was gonna get away with it. 00:05:59.050 --> 00:06:02.590 There’s a slight sex appeal to corporate intelligence, I guess. 00:06:02.590 --> 00:06:07.639 It’s kinda like this whole world that – I was in the military and things that you never 00:06:07.639 --> 00:06:09.310 really – you see it in the movies. 00:06:09.310 --> 00:06:11.830 You don’t really know that it exists. 00:06:11.830 --> 00:06:15.599 You learn a lot of social engineering ‘cause you’re constantly having to talk your way 00:06:15.599 --> 00:06:17.680 into places you shouldn’t be. 00:06:17.680 --> 00:06:23.210 You’re constantly having to phone somebody up and fish information out of them and try 00:06:23.210 --> 00:06:27.460 to get them to reveal things that they shouldn’t do, or pretending to be someone else. 00:06:27.460 --> 00:06:31.389 JACK: He would sometimes travel around, do training sessions, and would teach others 00:06:31.389 --> 00:06:33.780 how to gather intel like this, covertly. 00:06:33.780 --> 00:06:38.639 PAINT PARROT: After, yeah, getting more and more into it, one trip to the states, I met 00:06:38.639 --> 00:06:42.560 a private intelligence company that was a DOJ contractor. 00:06:42.560 --> 00:06:47.880 That’s kind of where it all escalated from there and became something else. 00:06:47.880 --> 00:06:53.060 JACK: Okay, so, this DOJ contractor was an intelligence-gathering company and they wanted 00:06:53.060 --> 00:06:56.250 to increase their presence in the UK where Paint Parrot lived. 00:06:56.250 --> 00:07:01.539 They knew of this London-based company which was collecting intelligence there, and they 00:07:01.539 --> 00:07:06.870 introduced Paint Parrot to this small intelligence firm in the UK to see if he could help them 00:07:06.870 --> 00:07:07.870 out. 00:07:07.870 --> 00:07:11.860 PAINT PARROT: This is kind of where I first got introduced into yeah, the world of whistleblowing, 00:07:11.860 --> 00:07:12.970 basically. 00:07:12.970 --> 00:07:19.169 JACK: [MUSIC] Here’s where we get to whistleblowers. 00:07:19.169 --> 00:07:23.090 In a nutshell, the Department of Justice doesn’t like it when corporations break the law. 00:07:23.090 --> 00:07:27.810 They want to bring these businesses to justice, but it’s not so easy for the DOJ to know 00:07:27.810 --> 00:07:31.750 when something illegal is going on inside a company. 00:07:31.750 --> 00:07:37.580 The DOJ gives out monetary rewards to whistleblowers who can provide detailed firsthand observations 00:07:37.580 --> 00:07:42.819 of misconduct by a company which results in a successful enforcement action that returns 00:07:42.819 --> 00:07:46.090 a significant amount of money to harmed investors. 00:07:46.090 --> 00:07:51.199 Basically, if someone inside the company comes forward and provides enough evidence that 00:07:51.199 --> 00:07:56.759 this company was breaking the law and it results in a fine imposed by the SEC, the whistleblower 00:07:56.759 --> 00:07:58.599 will get a percentage of that fine. 00:07:58.599 --> 00:08:04.440 But the DOJ can’t handle all of this intel being sent at them by themselves, so they 00:08:04.440 --> 00:08:10.720 contract this work out to companies like this DOJ contractor the Paint Parrot just met. 00:08:10.720 --> 00:08:15.289 But this London group that he also just met with was in the process of handling one of 00:08:15.289 --> 00:08:17.000 these whistleblower cases. 00:08:17.000 --> 00:08:22.600 Now, this case is still ongoing, so we can’t discuss specifics, but he can talk a little 00:08:22.600 --> 00:08:23.600 about it. 00:08:23.600 --> 00:08:27.610 First, like in any whistleblower case, there’s a company that did something wrong. 00:08:27.610 --> 00:08:34.860 PAINT PARROT: [MUSIC] Brief overview, a certain large company was – in order to get a competitive 00:08:34.860 --> 00:08:41.589 edge – was bribing government officials in exchange for access to oil. 00:08:41.589 --> 00:08:48.550 They were paying off people, they were shipping cash across borders into other countries in 00:08:48.550 --> 00:08:54.750 order to pay off government officials [00:10:00] in order to get their supply over other corporations, 00:08:54.750 --> 00:08:57.640 their competitors. 00:08:57.640 --> 00:09:02.839 They were also – in the end, it sort of came out they were also manufacturing fake 00:09:02.839 --> 00:09:09.050 shipping manifests, the ships that never left or never existed in order to move what we’ve 00:09:09.050 --> 00:09:12.790 assumed is large quantities of oil or something. 00:09:12.790 --> 00:09:17.410 They were moving it anonymously in order to bolster their stocks all off the record and 00:09:17.410 --> 00:09:18.420 things like that. 00:09:18.420 --> 00:09:26.519 We have a feeling that was then used in other countries, basically, in order to shift the 00:09:26.519 --> 00:09:29.310 balance of whatever it be; political power or whatever. 00:09:29.310 --> 00:09:33.790 But they were basically shipping, yeah, some oil that wasn’t even accounted for. 00:09:33.790 --> 00:09:37.670 They were using some of these to ship cash as well that wasn’t – it was sort of off 00:09:37.670 --> 00:09:43.160 the books by saying oh, we paid for this vessel to leave, and this vessel never existed. 00:09:43.160 --> 00:09:48.160 The manifest is – it never existed, but they can attribute millions of dollars to 00:09:48.160 --> 00:09:50.190 that – this cost. 00:09:50.190 --> 00:09:52.860 That money then obviously went somewhere else in cash. 00:09:52.860 --> 00:09:59.790 JACK: So, this giant multinational corporation was doing a bunch of illegal things but it 00:09:59.790 --> 00:10:02.970 wasn’t public, so nobody knew they were doing this. 00:10:02.970 --> 00:10:08.630 Only a few people inside the company were aware that this company was breaking the law. 00:10:08.630 --> 00:10:13.800 But there was this one guy who worked for this company who was upset with this company. 00:10:13.800 --> 00:10:18.399 PAINT PARROT: He was in a Southern African country. 00:10:18.399 --> 00:10:22.110 He was their representative, basically. 00:10:22.110 --> 00:10:29.330 He had his own business but he also had business cards with discommodity companies, local. 00:10:29.330 --> 00:10:31.860 He was their in-country representative. 00:10:31.860 --> 00:10:34.780 He was a contractor rather than actually on their payroll. 00:10:34.780 --> 00:10:35.780 JACK: Okay. 00:10:35.780 --> 00:10:38.360 But I mean, how did they get connected to your company? 00:10:38.360 --> 00:10:46.639 PAINT PARROT: How he got approached is – I think he tried to sue a company for money 00:10:46.639 --> 00:10:50.880 that they owed him [MUSIC] when he had left. 00:10:50.880 --> 00:10:52.290 I think that’s how it started. 00:10:52.290 --> 00:10:57.450 He ended up with a grudge against this company and someone obviously caught wind it of it 00:10:57.450 --> 00:11:02.460 and introduced him to where I was working – I’d say this is before I came along 00:11:02.460 --> 00:11:07.470 – and was like, look, you didn’t win the lawsuit. 00:11:07.470 --> 00:11:11.470 If you know of anything that they’ve done wrong – ‘cause I think he mentioned some 00:11:11.470 --> 00:11:14.769 of it in the lawsuit and he was – kind of took it ‘cause he lost the lawsuit and no 00:11:14.769 --> 00:11:15.769 one took any of it seriously. 00:11:15.769 --> 00:11:22.660 He then got introduced to this intelligence firm and they were like okay, this – if 00:11:22.660 --> 00:11:25.649 you can prove this, this, and this, then it’s a whistleblower case. 00:11:25.649 --> 00:11:27.990 That’s kind of how it all started. 00:11:27.990 --> 00:11:33.230 JACK: This guy wasn’t interested in being a whistleblower at first, but this UK intelligence 00:11:33.230 --> 00:11:38.390 firm convinced him that being a whistleblower was the right thing to do and to come forward 00:11:38.390 --> 00:11:40.600 with this evidence to the DOJ. 00:11:40.600 --> 00:11:45.280 He agreed to provide them with testimony and the necessary information for the case, but 00:11:45.280 --> 00:11:48.670 then things got a little crazy. 00:11:48.670 --> 00:11:53.060 Paint Parrot gets brought into this UK intelligence firm to take a look at this case. 00:11:53.060 --> 00:11:57.240 They have this guy with enough evidence to slap a huge fine on this company. 00:11:57.240 --> 00:12:01.330 They just need him to come forward with it, but this guy was a bit of a loose cannon. 00:12:01.330 --> 00:12:05.899 PAINT PARROT: Let’s just say the situation was complicated and the witness was at risk, 00:12:05.899 --> 00:12:13.560 predominantly at risk of themselves, but they were making threats towards their own family 00:12:13.560 --> 00:12:15.550 and kids and things like this. 00:12:15.550 --> 00:12:17.610 JACK: Their star witness had freaked out. 00:12:17.610 --> 00:12:22.250 He disappeared from his home in Africa, threatened to kill his wife and family, and cut off all 00:12:22.250 --> 00:12:26.060 contact with this intelligence company that Paint Parrot was working for. 00:12:26.060 --> 00:12:29.100 It looked like he had gone to the UK where Paint Parrot was. 00:12:29.100 --> 00:12:33.080 Oh, and I actually took a look at this guy’s Facebook page. 00:12:33.080 --> 00:12:34.350 He is very strange. 00:12:34.350 --> 00:12:39.290 He calls himself the Old God and goes around blessing people he thinks are merciful. 00:12:39.290 --> 00:12:41.890 His pictures he posts are pretty odd, too. 00:12:41.890 --> 00:12:46.050 Some are straight-up amateur porn, some with his face painted in a very crude way, and 00:12:46.050 --> 00:12:49.690 he posts a lot of weird conspiracy theory stuff. 00:12:49.690 --> 00:12:52.420 This is what Paint Parrot walked into. 00:12:52.420 --> 00:12:55.149 As being the new guy at work, this was his first assignment. 00:12:55.149 --> 00:12:59.680 PAINT PARROT: It’s just kind of can you secure the family, make sure the house is 00:12:59.680 --> 00:13:06.540 secured, and then can you try and track down and find our whistleblower? 00:13:06.540 --> 00:13:10.580 I appreciate this doesn’t paint this world in a great light ‘cause you know, I’m 00:13:10.580 --> 00:13:13.649 kind of being brought in on what’s essentially a fuck up. 00:13:13.649 --> 00:13:16.150 But of course, it sounded interesting. 00:13:16.150 --> 00:13:22.930 I get told that the FBI are involved and all this kind of thing so yeah, I’m like, okay, 00:13:22.930 --> 00:13:24.949 let’s do this. 00:13:24.949 --> 00:13:29.000 JACK: [MUSIC] He begins his search by getting to know the guy’s family. 00:13:29.000 --> 00:13:33.230 He asked them about the target’s typical schedule and any favorite places that he tends 00:13:33.230 --> 00:13:34.230 to go. 00:13:34.230 --> 00:13:38.829 They had to do this safely, without bringing any harm to him or the guy’s family, which 00:13:38.829 --> 00:13:41.779 means a lot of his intel that he gathered had to be secret. 00:13:41.779 --> 00:13:45.769 So, he begins scouring the internet to try to find information about this guy. 00:13:45.769 --> 00:13:46.930 PAINT PARROT: We’re humans. 00:13:46.930 --> 00:13:48.519 We’re creatures of habit. 00:13:48.519 --> 00:13:53.040 Let’s find out the restaurants he likes to go to, [00:15:00] who – places he kind 00:13:53.040 --> 00:13:56.750 of normally in his daily routine can’t do without; if he always buys a bagel from this 00:13:56.750 --> 00:14:00.579 one food shop, okay, well, let’s check that out at the sort of time of day that he would 00:14:00.579 --> 00:14:01.579 go there. 00:14:01.579 --> 00:14:07.199 It was initially just gathering a list of information about his family and sort of other 00:14:07.199 --> 00:14:12.420 friends and contacts that we got in touch with to try and track him down. 00:14:12.420 --> 00:14:15.519 Then it was, like I say, he started posting a lot of stuff on social media. 00:14:15.519 --> 00:14:19.959 He’s putting pictures on Facebook almost daily and I’m trying to figure out what’s 00:14:19.959 --> 00:14:24.269 in the backgrounds to try and pin down whereabouts he is in London. 00:14:24.269 --> 00:14:28.329 JACK: When you take a photo with a digital camera, a bunch of data like the date and 00:14:28.329 --> 00:14:33.110 time and even GPS location are stored as metadata inside the picture. 00:14:33.110 --> 00:14:37.110 It used to be that when you uploaded a photo to Facebook, all of that metadata could be 00:14:37.110 --> 00:14:38.779 downloaded and viewed. 00:14:38.779 --> 00:14:43.720 Obviously, this raised a lot of privacy concerns, so Facebook and other social media platforms 00:14:43.720 --> 00:14:48.339 began automatically deleting metadata from uploaded photos. 00:14:48.339 --> 00:14:52.130 Paint Parrot couldn’t just download the photo and look at the metadata and see where 00:14:52.130 --> 00:14:53.130 it was taken. 00:14:53.130 --> 00:14:56.759 He had to actually identify things in the background of the photos to try to figure 00:14:56.759 --> 00:15:00.250 out where these photos were taken and where his target was. 00:15:00.250 --> 00:15:03.709 PAINT PARROT: Instead, I was actually having to identify what was in the background of 00:15:03.709 --> 00:15:08.130 the photos; yeah, looking at the time he had uploaded it and looking at the frequency of 00:15:08.130 --> 00:15:09.270 when he was uploading pictures. 00:15:09.270 --> 00:15:12.029 It was oh, right, okay, that was taken this morning. 00:15:12.029 --> 00:15:13.269 He uploaded it at that time. 00:15:13.269 --> 00:15:17.660 A couple of hours later; okay, this picture’s a couple of miles away, to kind of build an 00:15:17.660 --> 00:15:24.090 idea of what area he’s in and then just try and narrow it down and close the net, 00:15:24.090 --> 00:15:25.090 so to speak. 00:15:25.090 --> 00:15:30.060 JACK: He figured out from the photos this guy was staying in a hotel. 00:15:30.060 --> 00:15:34.760 Looking at the background landmarks and stuff in the photos, he narrowed his location down 00:15:34.760 --> 00:15:38.850 to a general part of town that has a few well-known hotels. 00:15:38.850 --> 00:15:43.050 Now, he has to figure out what hotel this guy’s staying in. 00:15:43.050 --> 00:15:47.690 Maybe to you and I that’s a little hard, but to Paint Parrot, that’s nothing a little 00:15:47.690 --> 00:15:49.329 social engineering can’t figure out. 00:15:49.329 --> 00:15:54.390 PAINT PARROT: [MUSIC] The first thing then, is I start calling these hotels. 00:15:54.390 --> 00:16:00.810 Let’s pretend I’m calling them saying I’ve got the guy’s laundry. 00:16:00.810 --> 00:16:03.160 Calling; oh, I work for so-and-so laundry. 00:16:03.160 --> 00:16:07.430 I would just quickly Google the dry-cleaning company that’s down the road, kind of thing. 00:16:07.430 --> 00:16:12.149 It’s like, I work for so-and-so; we’ve got clothes here. 00:16:12.149 --> 00:16:16.180 He said he was staying with you guys but we haven’t got the room number. 00:16:16.180 --> 00:16:17.519 I know he’s expecting it today. 00:16:17.519 --> 00:16:20.790 Is there any chance you can give us the room number? 00:16:20.790 --> 00:16:24.730 We can make sure – we can bring his dry cleaning up to him, soft. 00:16:24.730 --> 00:16:29.899 Obviously, most of them were like no, we haven’t got a guest by that name, blah, blah, blah. 00:16:29.899 --> 00:16:33.339 But we eventually found the right one after about the fourth or fifth attempt. 00:16:33.339 --> 00:16:35.949 Someone in reception let it slip, gave us the room number and everything. 00:16:35.949 --> 00:16:36.949 We were like alright, cool. 00:16:36.949 --> 00:16:37.949 We know he’s staying here. 00:16:37.949 --> 00:16:39.589 We know he’s in that room number. 00:16:39.589 --> 00:16:42.240 JACK: Excellent; success. 00:16:42.240 --> 00:16:46.360 The call worked and he had the information he needed, so now he’s gonna go find the 00:16:46.360 --> 00:16:47.360 target. 00:16:47.360 --> 00:16:50.970 PAINT PARROT: Once I had the room number, I just walked straight past reception, walked 00:16:50.970 --> 00:16:58.209 straight upstairs, found the room, and just kind of where it was corridor-wise, and just 00:16:58.209 --> 00:17:02.089 lingered around, I guess, in the right sort of way that – sitting on the – I think 00:17:02.089 --> 00:17:06.709 it was a sofa at the end or something, just one of those random bits of hotel furniture, 00:17:06.709 --> 00:17:11.840 and just kinda hung around there playing on my phone until I confirmed that he was actually 00:17:11.840 --> 00:17:13.080 staying in that room. 00:17:13.080 --> 00:17:18.439 JACK: So, he waited nonchalantly outside the guy’s hotel room to make sure it was his 00:17:18.439 --> 00:17:19.439 room. 00:17:19.439 --> 00:17:23.250 PAINT PARROT: Yeah, it’s not quite the classic spy with the eye-holes cut out in the newspaper, 00:17:23.250 --> 00:17:24.250 you know? 00:17:24.250 --> 00:17:28.130 JACK: [MUSIC] Suddenly, the guy comes out of his room and starts walking to the lobby. 00:17:28.130 --> 00:17:31.920 Paint Parrot sees him but he didn’t want to confront the whistleblower immediately. 00:17:31.920 --> 00:17:36.830 Remember, they need this guy on their side if they want to use him against this company. 00:17:36.830 --> 00:17:41.280 PAINT PARROT: Initially it’s try and talk to him and try and bring him back on-board. 00:17:41.280 --> 00:17:45.440 We know he’s there, seen he’s got his phone on him. 00:17:45.440 --> 00:17:50.190 We’ve got eyes on him when he’s walked out and I’ve got one of the bosses of the 00:17:50.190 --> 00:17:53.240 company to give him a call and try and talk him ‘round. 00:17:53.240 --> 00:17:56.000 You could see his phone rings; takes the phone out of his pocket. 00:17:56.000 --> 00:17:57.410 I can see he’s ignoring it. 00:17:57.410 --> 00:18:04.909 It’s like, okay, I kind of know we’re starting to get a – losing the control. 00:18:04.909 --> 00:18:08.470 JACK: So, what’s your pulse rate in these situations? 00:18:08.470 --> 00:18:12.090 Are you cool and calm or nervous and sweaty? 00:18:12.090 --> 00:18:15.860 PAINT PARROT: The amount of times I’ve followed someone or be looking at someone through a 00:18:15.860 --> 00:18:20.610 camera here and you’re like – you think shit, they’ve seen me. 00:18:20.610 --> 00:18:21.610 They’re looking right at me. 00:18:21.610 --> 00:18:26.020 You look at the photos; it looks like they’re looking right at you. 00:18:26.020 --> 00:18:29.940 You follow someone for ages and because they just casually look over their shoulder at 00:18:29.940 --> 00:18:37.260 some point, even though you’re across the street and a good thirty meters back or something, 00:18:37.260 --> 00:18:41.830 because they’ve looked over, you get that paranoia of instantly thinking they’ve spotted 00:18:41.830 --> 00:18:42.830 me. 00:18:42.830 --> 00:18:47.250 But the more and more I’ve done it, once you realize that everyone else around you 00:18:47.250 --> 00:18:50.740 is nowhere near as aware as you are, ‘cause you’re in this heightened state, [00:20:00] 00:18:50.740 --> 00:18:54.620 you almost get this feeling of you can go anywhere. 00:18:54.620 --> 00:18:55.890 You can walk anywhere. 00:18:55.890 --> 00:19:00.280 As long as you’re confident enough, people are easy. 00:19:00.280 --> 00:19:04.080 If you look like you belong somewhere, people won’t question you. 00:19:04.080 --> 00:19:05.740 It’s generally that simple. 00:19:05.740 --> 00:19:09.400 JACK: So, Paint Parrot continued to track and follow this guy for a while. 00:19:09.400 --> 00:19:13.070 PAINT PARROT: This went on for a couple of days, trying to make a soft approach and just 00:19:13.070 --> 00:19:14.429 try and bring him back in. 00:19:14.429 --> 00:19:20.309 Once it was quite obviously established that’s not what you wanted to do – and he started 00:19:20.309 --> 00:19:26.470 posting more and more stuff on social media now in relation to this case. 00:19:26.470 --> 00:19:33.470 He actually posted a list of e-mail addresses and names of people at the DOJ in the US. 00:19:33.470 --> 00:19:34.470 JACK: Huh? 00:19:34.470 --> 00:19:35.470 That’s really odd. 00:19:35.470 --> 00:19:37.550 He’s trying to dox the Department of Justice? 00:19:37.550 --> 00:19:42.710 That makes no sense because that’s not the target organization you want his help on. 00:19:42.710 --> 00:19:44.530 PAINT PARROT: No. 00:19:44.530 --> 00:19:47.470 As I said, this guy completely lost the plot. 00:19:47.470 --> 00:19:53.870 I don’t know if it was a mental breakdown or what or if he’s just crazy but yeah, 00:19:53.870 --> 00:19:56.940 he kind of – he’d done the same for the company that he was blowing the whistle on 00:19:56.940 --> 00:20:02.059 as well, so he kind of put his hands up and said I’m a whistleblower, and he listed 00:20:02.059 --> 00:20:08.630 the names of – DOJ names and e-mails, FBI names and e-mails, and names and e-mails of 00:20:08.630 --> 00:20:12.410 the top people at the company he was blowing the whistle on. 00:20:12.410 --> 00:20:17.130 JACK: At this point, the team decides this guy is no longer worth the risk, so Paint 00:20:17.130 --> 00:20:20.919 Parrot takes all the information he has; the guy’s location, texts, audio recordings 00:20:20.919 --> 00:20:25.590 of him making threats against his wife and family, and prepares a nice little file to 00:20:25.590 --> 00:20:29.490 pass along to London law enforcement so they can arrest him. 00:20:29.490 --> 00:20:33.580 PAINT PARROT: Yeah, I kinda packaged it all in a nice way to sort of present and resolve 00:20:33.580 --> 00:20:34.580 the situation. 00:20:34.580 --> 00:20:37.920 They were like oh my god, yeah, we never had anyone do this before. 00:20:37.920 --> 00:20:38.920 It’s absolutely brilliant. 00:20:38.920 --> 00:20:43.809 JACK: The police had enough evidence to bring that guy in and question him. 00:20:43.809 --> 00:20:45.919 This means they lost their whistleblower. 00:20:45.919 --> 00:20:48.870 What do you do with this case now? 00:20:48.870 --> 00:20:50.370 After the break, we’ll find out. 00:20:50.370 --> 00:20:51.370 Stay with us. 00:20:51.370 --> 00:20:55.970 PAINT PARROT: The conversation shifted over the course of a few days to well, now we don’t 00:20:55.970 --> 00:20:58.460 have a witness and we still want this case. 00:20:58.460 --> 00:21:02.530 It was like, we – you managed to find him and track him down. 00:21:02.530 --> 00:21:10.830 How would you feel about – let’s try and find a new witness or two for this investigation. 00:21:10.830 --> 00:21:15.770 JACK: Now, you might be wondering why does this UK intelligence firm that Paint Parrot 00:21:15.770 --> 00:21:20.710 works for even care about finding a whistleblower and bring this case to justice? 00:21:20.710 --> 00:21:22.679 Well, it’s simple; money. 00:21:22.679 --> 00:21:28.850 [MUSIC] Check this out, when a whistleblower reports a crime to the SEC and the SEC issues 00:21:28.850 --> 00:21:34.150 fines for that company, the whistleblower will get a cut of the fines collected. 00:21:34.150 --> 00:21:39.730 In fact, the SEC can reward up to 30% of the fines collected back to whoever brought them 00:21:39.730 --> 00:21:41.610 the evidence that a crime was committed. 00:21:41.610 --> 00:21:44.400 But that’s not always just the whistleblower who brings it forward. 00:21:44.400 --> 00:21:49.059 A company like the one Paint Parrot works for would outline all the laws broken, compile 00:21:49.059 --> 00:21:52.419 all the evidence neatly, and handle the whistleblower. 00:21:52.419 --> 00:21:56.270 Then Paint Parrot’s company would deliver it to the DOJ contractor who’s based in 00:21:56.270 --> 00:22:01.900 Washington DC, and that company has an in with the DOJ and the SEC to get the attention 00:22:01.900 --> 00:22:04.680 of the right people to get this moving quickly. 00:22:04.680 --> 00:22:10.040 That 30% might be split three ways between the whistleblower, the company Paint Parrot 00:22:10.040 --> 00:22:12.880 works for, and the DOJ contractor. 00:22:12.880 --> 00:22:19.679 That means if a company is fined 500 million dollars, 30% of that is 150 million dollars. 00:22:19.679 --> 00:22:25.400 So, 150 million dollars split three ways, this is why the intel firm that Paint Parrot 00:22:25.400 --> 00:22:27.830 worked for wanted this case. 00:22:27.830 --> 00:22:33.230 This was a huge company committing massive crimes that could result in billions of dollars 00:22:33.230 --> 00:22:34.650 in fines. 00:22:34.650 --> 00:22:39.799 That’s just a fascinating business model that this intel firm was doing; to go seek 00:22:39.799 --> 00:22:44.340 dirt on a company and then find a whistleblower in that company who can testify that crimes 00:22:44.340 --> 00:22:48.289 were committed all so this company can get the [00:25:00] reward in the end. 00:22:48.289 --> 00:22:51.830 At this point, they knew what crimes were committed by this company, and now they just 00:22:51.830 --> 00:22:56.960 needed to find a person on the inside of the company to come forward with the evidence. 00:22:56.960 --> 00:23:01.560 This group wanted Paint Parrot to approach somebody who was part of the company and convince 00:23:01.560 --> 00:23:04.570 them to turn into a whistleblower. 00:23:04.570 --> 00:23:08.480 But they needed to find the right person, someone who’s willing to do it and would 00:23:08.480 --> 00:23:10.700 have access to the right evidence. 00:23:10.700 --> 00:23:15.490 While Paint Parrot had done some social engineering and intel-gathering in the past, this was 00:23:15.490 --> 00:23:20.799 totally new territory for him and definitely in the moral gray area, because the new goal 00:23:20.799 --> 00:23:25.190 is now to create a whistleblower to find someone who didn’t necessarily think to become a 00:23:25.190 --> 00:23:30.850 whistleblower and then convince them to detonate a bombshell allegation against the very company 00:23:30.850 --> 00:23:32.410 they work for. 00:23:32.410 --> 00:23:34.920 But Paint Parrot was up for this challenge. 00:23:34.920 --> 00:23:39.010 He knew they would have to be really smart about the approach if they were gonna do this. 00:23:39.010 --> 00:23:42.460 PAINT PARROT: It’s not like you can just knock on the door of a company and follow 00:23:42.460 --> 00:23:47.270 someone out and tap them on the shoulder on the street and go hey, do you want to come 00:23:47.270 --> 00:23:48.480 forwards and be a whistleblower? 00:23:48.480 --> 00:23:49.850 That kinda doesn’t work. 00:23:49.850 --> 00:23:51.210 You have to cultivate. 00:23:51.210 --> 00:23:56.320 This is what we’d call human intelligence, but it’s basically social engineering. 00:23:56.320 --> 00:24:02.419 You’ve got to build a story that puts you on a like-for-like with the individual you 00:24:02.419 --> 00:24:04.040 want to target. 00:24:04.040 --> 00:24:09.400 You’ve got to very, very quickly be memorable to them and be their best friend before you 00:24:09.400 --> 00:24:11.279 even approach the subject of whistleblowing. 00:24:11.279 --> 00:24:17.972 You’ve got to have enough things in common and – stupid shit like I the same movies, 00:24:17.972 --> 00:24:23.710 the same TV shows, go on vacations at the same places to the point where they’re like 00:24:23.710 --> 00:24:27.180 oh my god, I found someone that’s into the same stuff as me. 00:24:27.180 --> 00:24:28.669 Do you want to grab a beer later? 00:24:28.669 --> 00:24:32.130 You can then start building on a relationship with them. 00:24:32.130 --> 00:24:37.110 JACK: How much experience have you had with something like that before this, to get close 00:24:37.110 --> 00:24:39.350 to a source like that without them knowing who you are? 00:24:39.350 --> 00:24:44.000 PAINT PARROT: I had a minimal exposure to it but never done more of a long game like 00:24:44.000 --> 00:24:45.000 this. 00:24:45.000 --> 00:24:49.420 What I’d done before was a couple of days, just trying to – maybe just trying to bump 00:24:49.420 --> 00:24:53.770 into someone and get some information out of them in a bar or knocking on the door pretending 00:24:53.770 --> 00:24:58.529 to be someone else, or getting the job in a warehouse to try and find someone that’s 00:24:58.529 --> 00:25:00.710 stealing stock. 00:25:00.710 --> 00:25:08.279 Never playing the game or playing a role to this sort of level. 00:25:08.279 --> 00:25:15.730 Never tried it at this point but I was like hey, I’ve done it for smaller stuff, so 00:25:15.730 --> 00:25:19.899 surely it’s just do the same thing but longer, right? 00:25:19.899 --> 00:25:24.740 JACK: [MUSIC] Paint Parrot and his team began looking for employees of this company to try 00:25:24.740 --> 00:25:27.860 to find someone who could be a whistleblower. 00:25:27.860 --> 00:25:32.630 Now, if you don’t know, you can go on LinkedIn, search for a company, and see thousands of 00:25:32.630 --> 00:25:35.320 employees that work for that company. 00:25:35.320 --> 00:25:39.440 From there, you can try to find people who would be in the position to know what dirt 00:25:39.440 --> 00:25:41.010 this company has. 00:25:41.010 --> 00:25:44.490 Because after all, a whistleblower has to testify in court to say that they they saw 00:25:44.490 --> 00:25:46.039 this company commit crimes. 00:25:46.039 --> 00:25:49.320 It can’t just be anyone who works there. 00:25:49.320 --> 00:25:53.840 They slowly start going through individuals of this company, narrowing it down. 00:25:53.840 --> 00:25:57.950 Then when they find people who would be in the know, they start scouring their social 00:25:57.950 --> 00:26:04.910 media profiles, trying to figure out if this person could be persuaded to be a whistleblower, 00:26:04.910 --> 00:26:08.419 because you sorta need to find someone with strong morals and ethics who’s willing to 00:26:08.419 --> 00:26:12.750 do the right thing and is willing to work with the SEC, because at the end of the day, 00:26:12.750 --> 00:26:18.480 a whistleblower has to decide, what do they care about more; this company they work for 00:26:18.480 --> 00:26:21.610 or justice for the crimes that were committed? 00:26:21.610 --> 00:26:26.260 Eventually, Paint Parrot and his team zeroed in on a person. 00:26:26.260 --> 00:26:30.919 This guy ticked all the boxes of someone who would know enough to testify, has the morals 00:26:30.919 --> 00:26:36.430 and ethics to want to do the right thing, was American, so he could be patriotic, and 00:26:36.430 --> 00:26:41.590 as a bonus, the target was living in the UK right where Paint Parrot was. 00:26:41.590 --> 00:26:46.600 This was now their target and their mission is to convince this guy to blow the whistle 00:26:46.600 --> 00:26:48.240 on the company he worked for. 00:26:48.240 --> 00:26:52.460 Now that they’ve identified their target, Paint Parrot got to work learning as much 00:26:52.460 --> 00:26:54.350 about this guy’s life as possible. 00:26:54.350 --> 00:26:58.159 PAINT PARROT: [MUSIC] That’s when it’s like, you’re trying to just use your standard 00:26:58.159 --> 00:27:03.400 sort of open-source intelligence type techniques, just try and get as much of information as 00:27:03.400 --> 00:27:04.400 we can. 00:27:04.400 --> 00:27:10.970 Let’s look at his – try and build up who and where his family are, use Facebook so 00:27:10.970 --> 00:27:15.090 we can get pictures of his family first and last names, locations. 00:27:15.090 --> 00:27:17.770 I found out he’s from a certain state. 00:27:17.770 --> 00:27:22.120 Okay, so now we’re just looking at people who match their names in that state. 00:27:22.120 --> 00:27:27.789 Eventually you start whittling down the list of where I had his mum’s landline and mobile 00:27:27.789 --> 00:27:33.350 phone number, all just through open-source intelligence, looking at Facebook, Instagram. 00:27:33.350 --> 00:27:35.700 Found he’s still got an old MySpace. 00:27:35.700 --> 00:27:40.570 You know, all this kind of stuff, and we’ll build up a picture of this guy’s life. 00:27:40.570 --> 00:27:41.570 Where does he go? 00:27:41.570 --> 00:27:42.570 When does he go on holiday? 00:27:42.570 --> 00:27:44.890 When does he travel back to the states? 00:27:44.890 --> 00:27:45.890 Where does he go on holidays? 00:27:45.890 --> 00:27:47.460 Anywhere he goes [00:30:00] regularly. 00:27:47.460 --> 00:27:49.630 JACK: This is all pretty basic research. 00:27:49.630 --> 00:27:53.030 Most of the information they’re getting is just from public social media profiles, 00:27:53.030 --> 00:27:57.370 but he was also looking up things like voter registration databases, real estate listings, 00:27:57.370 --> 00:28:00.320 and other online resources to fill out their picture. 00:28:00.320 --> 00:28:03.680 But most of what they’re getting is just stuff that’s publicly out there, ready for 00:28:03.680 --> 00:28:05.010 anyone to find. 00:28:05.010 --> 00:28:08.900 PAINT PARROT: Yeah, we’ve managed to get his mobile phone number by this point. 00:28:08.900 --> 00:28:14.500 We’ve got a wealth of information about his daily life from various social media and 00:28:14.500 --> 00:28:16.690 his wife’s social media and stuff like that. 00:28:16.690 --> 00:28:21.779 JACK: Oh yeah, that’s a good tip; if the target is not showing much on social media, 00:28:21.779 --> 00:28:26.460 find their spouse because their spouse might be posting all the info like where they’re 00:28:26.460 --> 00:28:29.230 traveling, what food they’re eating, pictures of themselves. 00:28:29.230 --> 00:28:32.850 It sometimes can be a much better source of information than the target themselves. 00:28:32.850 --> 00:28:37.440 PAINT PARROT: We’ve got historical data of his family and where they currently are 00:28:37.440 --> 00:28:42.659 living and his relations, and how often he generally travels back to the states. 00:28:42.659 --> 00:28:47.220 We almost build out what we call a ‘pattern of life’ on the person. 00:28:47.220 --> 00:28:53.620 We use that to then start trying to decide how we’re gonna fit ourselves – basically, 00:28:53.620 --> 00:28:56.490 how I’m gonna slot into this guy’s life. 00:28:56.490 --> 00:28:58.259 JACK: That’s the question, right? 00:28:58.259 --> 00:29:03.669 With all this information, how do you approach the person to convince them to be a whistleblower? 00:29:03.669 --> 00:29:07.380 If you just phone them up and say hey, do you want to be a whistleblower, that seems 00:29:07.380 --> 00:29:09.800 odd and you might instantly lose them. 00:29:09.800 --> 00:29:14.519 If you want to persuade someone, the best way to do it is to get them to believe it’s 00:29:14.519 --> 00:29:15.519 their idea. 00:29:15.519 --> 00:29:18.010 [MUSIC] So, that’s the plan. 00:29:18.010 --> 00:29:23.431 Paint Parrot was going to enter this guy’s life, become friends with him, and then slowly 00:29:23.431 --> 00:29:28.450 plant the idea that whistleblowing is a great idea. 00:29:28.450 --> 00:29:34.750 This means Paint Parrot needs to come up with a pretext, a backstory as to who he is and 00:29:34.750 --> 00:29:36.039 then meet this guy. 00:29:36.039 --> 00:29:38.559 Paint Parrot builds an identity online. 00:29:38.559 --> 00:29:43.799 He creates a fake LinkedIn profile and business cards to look like he works at another company 00:29:43.799 --> 00:29:46.299 with a similar job as the guy he’s targeting. 00:29:46.299 --> 00:29:51.710 In fact, he purposely made his profile a bit less accomplished as his target so his target 00:29:51.710 --> 00:29:53.510 wouldn’t feel intimidated. 00:29:53.510 --> 00:29:55.490 Paint Parrot begins memorizing his pretext. 00:29:55.490 --> 00:30:02.159 PAINT PARROT: We’d get a load of – in the UK – pay-as-you-go SIM cards and secondhand 00:30:02.159 --> 00:30:05.809 phones, stick a pay-as-you-go SIM in it. 00:30:05.809 --> 00:30:09.539 Never really put any money on it unless we actually had to make a call from it, but half 00:30:09.539 --> 00:30:13.200 the time you just give out that number for people to call you on it. 00:30:13.200 --> 00:30:18.160 A lot of these phones ended up with little stickers on, so you put them in a rubber case 00:30:18.160 --> 00:30:23.049 or whatever, but when you took the case off, it would have a little sticker on the various 00:30:23.049 --> 00:30:28.080 case names that – the code name that attributed to the project or case on the back of it. 00:30:28.080 --> 00:30:29.880 I think at one point I had like, six phones. 00:30:29.880 --> 00:30:33.429 I had to take the rubber cases off sometimes to remind myself of what phone was for what 00:30:33.429 --> 00:30:37.100 job and for what personality I had there. 00:30:37.100 --> 00:30:43.530 JACK: Do you stare in the mirror and call yourself by your fake name and try on different 00:30:43.530 --> 00:30:44.549 accents and stuff? 00:30:44.549 --> 00:30:45.669 PAINT PARROT: No. 00:30:45.669 --> 00:30:51.110 Generally, this kind of thing – some people might argue this, but I always use my real 00:30:51.110 --> 00:30:54.980 first name because there’s nothing worse than when someone shouts your name and you’re 00:30:54.980 --> 00:30:58.690 not using your real name and you don’t respond to it. 00:30:58.690 --> 00:31:02.720 My name’s not Dave and there’s no point me introducing myself to people as Dave because 00:31:02.720 --> 00:31:08.230 especially after doing this for a while, you are gonna have a few drinks at some point. 00:31:08.230 --> 00:31:13.029 If you’re talking to someone else and your target turns around; she goes Dave, and you 00:31:13.029 --> 00:31:17.950 just completely ignore it because it’s not your actual name, it can land you in the shit. 00:31:17.950 --> 00:31:23.540 JACK: Or somebody coming into the bar and shouting your real name and then, explain 00:31:23.540 --> 00:31:24.540 yourself. 00:31:24.540 --> 00:31:25.540 PAINT PARROT: Exactly. 00:31:25.540 --> 00:31:30.779 Yeah, if you’re sitting there and you’ve told this guy your name’s Dave and someone 00:31:30.779 --> 00:31:32.530 comes in going hey, Fred, Fred! 00:31:32.530 --> 00:31:34.490 Fred, why are you ignoring me, Fred? 00:31:34.490 --> 00:31:35.600 You’re like, fuck off. 00:31:35.600 --> 00:31:38.049 Yeah, you see that sort of stuff in the movies, don’t you? 00:31:38.049 --> 00:31:41.090 Yeah, it just doesn’t work like that. 00:31:41.090 --> 00:31:46.340 JACK: At this point, Paint Parrot has spent weeks learning about every aspect of his target. 00:31:46.340 --> 00:31:51.289 He has his own story cooked up along with fake business cards and a fake social media 00:31:51.289 --> 00:31:55.230 profile, and now he thinks it’s time to make first contact. 00:31:55.230 --> 00:31:59.570 [MUSIC] Paint Parrot knows this guy’s routine is to go to the bar every Friday night with 00:31:59.570 --> 00:32:04.120 some coworkers, have a few drinks, and then a few hours later, the coworkers leave and 00:32:04.120 --> 00:32:07.630 his wife comes and a few friends to have a few more drinks. 00:32:07.630 --> 00:32:12.299 His plan is to somehow make first contact just as his coworker’s leaving and the target’s 00:32:12.299 --> 00:32:15.820 wife is showing up because at that point, the guy would already have a few drinks in 00:32:15.820 --> 00:32:20.250 him and be comfortable with the territory and wouldn’t have any of his work friends 00:32:20.250 --> 00:32:21.250 around. 00:32:21.250 --> 00:32:23.340 Paint Parrot knew this was going to be a long game. 00:32:23.340 --> 00:32:27.029 He didn’t think he was just going to be able to meet this guy in a pub one night and 00:32:27.029 --> 00:32:31.980 convince him to be a whistleblower that same night, so his plan was just to become friends 00:32:31.980 --> 00:32:34.610 with him at first and gain trust. 00:32:34.610 --> 00:32:36.090 Friday night comes. 00:32:36.090 --> 00:32:40.020 Paint Parrot and a few of his coworkers head to the pub where they know this guy will be. 00:32:40.020 --> 00:32:46.269 PAINT PARROT: Yeah, I’m in this bar just with a couple of other colleagues just kind 00:32:46.269 --> 00:32:50.220 of, [00:35:00] yeah, be seen in the bar and not be that creepy weirdo just on his own 00:32:50.220 --> 00:32:54.419 ‘cause that also doesn’t work. 00:32:54.419 --> 00:33:00.860 Once I feel like he’s drunk enough and you get to the point where the bar’s busy, that 00:33:00.860 --> 00:33:06.210 you’ve actually got a queue to get served, I kinda slip myself in front of him in the 00:33:06.210 --> 00:33:11.770 queue and I’m just on a fake phone call to whoever. 00:33:11.770 --> 00:33:15.350 I’m talking about trying to get this place booked. 00:33:15.350 --> 00:33:17.789 It’s about this up-and-coming ski trip. 00:33:17.789 --> 00:33:22.120 I’m right in front of the guy, sort of – he’s literally on my left shoulder kinda thing. 00:33:22.120 --> 00:33:25.809 I’m talking about it loud enough that he can hear ‘cause obviously it’s a bar, 00:33:25.809 --> 00:33:29.630 and I’m starting to really moan and complain that I can’t get this place booked. 00:33:29.630 --> 00:33:34.210 I had heard great reviews about it, I’d been there another time of year, I really 00:33:34.210 --> 00:33:38.000 wanted to do the run up to Christmas which was the dates that he does. 00:33:38.000 --> 00:33:40.720 I really want to do it this year ‘cause I’ve heard it’s amazing. 00:33:40.720 --> 00:33:44.610 JACK: See, Paint Parrot knew so much information about his target. 00:33:44.610 --> 00:33:50.970 He knew that this guy booked that exact room just weeks earlier, so he’s being all loud 00:33:50.970 --> 00:33:55.179 and rude on this phone call and putting on a show about not being able to get that room. 00:33:55.179 --> 00:33:58.960 PAINT PARROT: Yeah, so I’m there obviously making a scene; said, oh, for fuck sake, I 00:33:58.960 --> 00:34:00.870 was dying to take you guys there. 00:34:00.870 --> 00:34:02.230 I can’t get it booked. 00:34:02.230 --> 00:34:05.440 I made a – I’m sorry I made these promises to you guys. 00:34:05.440 --> 00:34:08.730 I’ll try and figure it out. 00:34:08.730 --> 00:34:10.990 It’s supposed to be an amazing place. 00:34:10.990 --> 00:34:12.990 It’s beautiful, it’s stunning, the skiing is brilliant. 00:34:12.990 --> 00:34:17.630 I’m just saying this loud enough that the guy can hear and I’m subtly repeating the 00:34:17.630 --> 00:34:22.980 name of the villa a few times in this fake phone call so it kind of reestablishes it, 00:34:22.980 --> 00:34:25.490 ‘cause you might hear it once in passing and he might miss it. 00:34:25.490 --> 00:34:29.409 JACK: Are you looking at this guy to see if he’s picking up on you or watching what 00:34:29.409 --> 00:34:30.409 he’s doing? 00:34:30.409 --> 00:34:33.690 PAINT PARROT: No, I couldn’t – obviously I’m aware he’s still just behind my left 00:34:33.690 --> 00:34:38.389 shoulder and I’m trying to sort of use the drinks and the mirrors behind the bar and 00:34:38.389 --> 00:34:43.710 whatever is there to try and catch a glimpse of his reflection here and there to slowly 00:34:43.710 --> 00:34:46.179 see that he’s starting to twig. 00:34:46.179 --> 00:34:50.440 I kind of carry on talking about – I can’t book it. 00:34:50.440 --> 00:34:51.440 I hang the phone up. 00:34:51.440 --> 00:34:54.160 I’m like, this is fucking bollocks, kind of thing, and the guy’s like hey, man, you 00:34:54.160 --> 00:34:55.160 alright? 00:34:55.160 --> 00:34:56.160 I’m like no, mate. 00:34:56.160 --> 00:35:00.490 It’s bullshit; I’ve been trying to book this place and it’s already booked up. 00:35:00.490 --> 00:35:01.619 I promised my friends I was gonna. 00:35:01.619 --> 00:35:03.609 I guess I was too slow in doing it. 00:35:03.609 --> 00:35:06.020 Here is someone else has swooped in and booked in. 00:35:06.020 --> 00:35:09.080 He kinda said oh, I heard you say so-and-so, the name of the place. 00:35:09.080 --> 00:35:11.030 I was like yeah, that’s it. 00:35:11.030 --> 00:35:12.570 I was like well, how’d you know it? 00:35:12.570 --> 00:35:15.720 He’s like oh, I’m the fucking asshole that booked it. 00:35:15.720 --> 00:35:21.090 [MUSIC] Bang, there we are; conversation’s started. 00:35:21.090 --> 00:35:27.420 JACK: The magic of this is the fact that Paint Parrot didn’t approach the target. 00:35:27.420 --> 00:35:29.220 He got the target to break the ice. 00:35:29.220 --> 00:35:35.550 PAINT PARROT: You want them to make the first conversation with you, okay? 00:35:35.550 --> 00:35:41.470 ‘Cause people are inherently suspicious; if I go up to this person and go oh, hey, 00:35:41.470 --> 00:35:43.560 you’re so-and-so, it’ll generally get their guard up. 00:35:43.560 --> 00:35:51.070 But if they overhear you talking about something in a bar or whatever that is so unique and 00:35:51.070 --> 00:35:57.400 tied into their lives, they almost feel – especially after a couple of drinks – obligated to 00:35:57.400 --> 00:35:59.790 say oh my god, I know that, or I know where that is. 00:35:59.790 --> 00:36:01.210 I go there. 00:36:01.210 --> 00:36:05.950 It’s them then starting the conversation which instantly makes them feel at ease. 00:36:05.950 --> 00:36:07.260 You see what I mean? 00:36:07.260 --> 00:36:09.460 It’s a psychological thing, I guess. 00:36:09.460 --> 00:36:14.160 JACK: So, back at the bar, Paint Parrot got the guy to initiate conversation, but that’s 00:36:14.160 --> 00:36:15.180 just the first step. 00:36:15.180 --> 00:36:17.690 Now he’s gotta capitalize on this opportunity. 00:36:17.690 --> 00:36:23.319 He’s got this one shot to cement a friendship with this guy or else he might lose months 00:36:23.319 --> 00:36:26.410 of research and work that he built up for this moment. 00:36:26.410 --> 00:36:28.319 PAINT PARROT: [MUSIC] Obviously, I’m at the bar. 00:36:28.319 --> 00:36:29.820 I get served before him. 00:36:29.820 --> 00:36:34.920 There’s obviously a queue; I’m like look, dude, I just want a drink, kinda thing. 00:36:34.920 --> 00:36:37.720 He’s like yeah, and we’re kinda talking at that point. 00:36:37.720 --> 00:36:41.790 Yeah, one of my colleagues that’s one of my drinking buddies in the bar kinda comes 00:36:41.790 --> 00:36:45.589 up, taps me on the shoulder and says don’t worry about me, we gotta go. 00:36:45.589 --> 00:36:49.619 I’m like oh, okay, I guess I’ll stay here on my own kind of thing and just finish this 00:36:49.619 --> 00:36:50.619 drink. 00:36:50.619 --> 00:36:51.619 I’m talking to this guy. 00:36:51.619 --> 00:36:53.630 He’s obviously like, don’t be stupid, come and sit with us. 00:36:53.630 --> 00:36:54.630 That’s it. 00:36:54.630 --> 00:36:57.800 I’ve now sort of put myself into this guy’s life. 00:36:57.800 --> 00:37:00.240 JACK: Paint Parrot got a seat at the table. 00:37:00.240 --> 00:37:01.369 He was in. 00:37:01.369 --> 00:37:05.849 Once he sat down, this is where all of that research on the target and his wife comes 00:37:05.849 --> 00:37:06.849 into play. 00:37:06.849 --> 00:37:10.589 Paint Parrot already knew their favorite bands and he knew where they liked to go on vacation, 00:37:10.589 --> 00:37:16.000 what they liked to do, so he was finding ways to casually bring this up into conversations 00:37:16.000 --> 00:37:19.980 to make himself look like the perfect friend they never knew existed. 00:37:19.980 --> 00:37:23.680 PAINT PARROT: You’re just trying to show that you’re into the same things as they 00:37:23.680 --> 00:37:24.680 are. 00:37:24.680 --> 00:37:27.119 Like when you meet someone, and they’re into all the same stuff as they are. 00:37:27.119 --> 00:37:28.930 You could go anywhere and do anything with them. 00:37:28.930 --> 00:37:30.369 You’re gonna have a great time. 00:37:30.369 --> 00:37:35.480 That’s how you want them – you want them to arrive at that kind of conclusion in their 00:37:35.480 --> 00:37:36.480 minds. 00:37:36.480 --> 00:37:37.940 Stay, chat, laugh, have a few drinks. 00:37:37.940 --> 00:37:42.560 All of a sudden we got so much in common. 00:37:42.560 --> 00:37:45.970 After a few drinks it’s like look, hey, I really should shoot. 00:37:45.970 --> 00:37:49.970 I’ve got some stuff on [00:40:00] my desks that I’ve gotta try and get on top of over 00:37:49.970 --> 00:37:50.970 the weekend. 00:37:50.970 --> 00:37:54.860 It sucks to work over the weekend but I’ve gotta do it, kinda thing. 00:37:54.860 --> 00:37:59.060 You kind of hope that they come up with look, do you want to grab a drink again sometime 00:37:59.060 --> 00:38:00.400 or whatever? 00:38:00.400 --> 00:38:05.580 If it feels like they’re not gonna do it, I just went with the look, there’s my card. 00:38:05.580 --> 00:38:08.490 Give us a call if you fancy catching up or something like that. 00:38:08.490 --> 00:38:12.580 I think within about ten minutes of leaving, he had dropped me a text and it says hey, 00:38:12.580 --> 00:38:16.180 man, it was good to meet you, kind of thing, blah, blah, blah. 00:38:16.180 --> 00:38:18.240 Yeah, definitely, let’s grab a drink. 00:38:18.240 --> 00:38:22.260 We’re doing something or other later on that week. 00:38:22.260 --> 00:38:24.430 He’s like, you should totally come. 00:38:24.430 --> 00:38:26.430 JACK: Boom. Wow. 00:38:26.430 --> 00:38:30.750 I can’t tell if I’m more impressed or terrified by this whole thing. 00:38:30.750 --> 00:38:36.680 To think that a stranger you meet in a public space might actually be part of a team of 00:38:36.680 --> 00:38:42.619 people who have spent months researching every part of your life with the specific goal of 00:38:42.619 --> 00:38:49.150 manipulating you and influencing you to do something, to make a major life decision, 00:38:49.150 --> 00:38:51.069 this is pretty crazy. 00:38:51.069 --> 00:38:56.210 Stay with us because after the break, we’ll hear how he plays the long game. 00:38:56.210 --> 00:38:58.640 Paint Parrot has completed Step 1 of his mission. 00:38:58.640 --> 00:39:02.900 He has successfully initiated contact and made a connection with the target. 00:39:02.900 --> 00:39:08.100 Now he needs to slowly build up a sense of trust before he can say anything about whistleblowing. 00:39:08.100 --> 00:39:11.700 PAINT PARROT: You’ve got to really get that trust with them before you can move on to 00:39:11.700 --> 00:39:12.870 the next step. 00:39:12.870 --> 00:39:18.150 Yeah, the next few weeks, I am the person he met in that bar, for all intents and purposes, 00:39:18.150 --> 00:39:19.839 and going for drinks. 00:39:19.839 --> 00:39:23.050 Slowly you start building up more stuff about work. 00:39:23.050 --> 00:39:31.200 Yeah, and fortunately, this company had made the press, because the case had already started. 00:39:31.200 --> 00:39:37.240 There was a subpoena issued, so they were aware of it in their office and things like 00:39:37.240 --> 00:39:38.240 that. 00:39:38.240 --> 00:39:42.460 You can slowly start building up about oh my god, you work for so-and-so doing – I 00:39:42.460 --> 00:39:46.180 forgot, aren’t they under like, US investigation or something at the moment? 00:39:46.180 --> 00:39:49.780 You kind of build that into conversation slowly. 00:39:49.780 --> 00:39:52.359 I kinda slowly, slowly brought it up. 00:39:52.359 --> 00:39:55.510 I think it was at a BBQ or something on a Sunday. 00:39:55.510 --> 00:39:59.369 I sort of mentioned it quietly to one side to him. 00:39:59.369 --> 00:40:04.690 JACK: [MUSIC] I have to laugh at this point because it’s only been a couple weeks and 00:40:04.690 --> 00:40:10.380 Paint Parrot is at his target’s friend’s house hanging out with the gang at a Sunday 00:40:10.380 --> 00:40:11.380 BBQ. 00:40:11.380 --> 00:40:15.640 I just imagine him wearing a floral shirt and sunglasses, music playing, holding a beer 00:40:15.640 --> 00:40:16.849 and a hot dog. 00:40:16.849 --> 00:40:20.420 That’s him on the job on a Sunday afternoon. 00:40:20.420 --> 00:40:23.760 This is his career now. 00:40:23.760 --> 00:40:28.339 Because he wasn’t at this BBQ just for fun; this was a moment for him to start closing 00:40:28.339 --> 00:40:30.400 in on his final goal. 00:40:30.400 --> 00:40:35.050 PAINT PARROT: We’re there having this BBQ and I kinda call to him and his wife to one 00:40:35.050 --> 00:40:36.050 side. 00:40:36.050 --> 00:40:38.380 I’m like look, you notice this investigation? 00:40:38.380 --> 00:40:41.580 Obviously, it’s a US investigation, right? 00:40:41.580 --> 00:40:42.880 Is that gonna affect you guys? 00:40:42.880 --> 00:40:46.850 Could you end up being arrested and sent back to the states? 00:40:46.850 --> 00:40:48.619 ‘Cause that would suck, kinda thing. 00:40:48.619 --> 00:40:51.560 Kinda just plant the seed and a little bit of fear on it. 00:40:51.560 --> 00:40:53.650 Just left it with him to simmer. 00:40:53.650 --> 00:40:56.619 The key thing is mentioning it in front of his wife. 00:40:56.619 --> 00:41:01.300 If you can get the wife to worry, then he’s gonna worry more. 00:41:01.300 --> 00:41:03.770 He’s not just gonna worry at work; he’s gonna worry at home. 00:41:03.770 --> 00:41:05.030 That’s kind of what you want. 00:41:05.030 --> 00:41:09.380 Once he started getting worried, we met up – I think it was the next time we met up, 00:41:09.380 --> 00:41:12.200 it was just having drinks, the three of us. 00:41:12.200 --> 00:41:17.849 I said I know a lawyer that deals with this kind of stuff, and he deals with a lot of 00:41:17.849 --> 00:41:19.380 American cases and things like that. 00:41:19.380 --> 00:41:22.770 I go, do you want me to have a chat with him and see if I can find out if there’s any 00:41:22.770 --> 00:41:24.640 way he can help you out? 00:41:24.640 --> 00:41:28.349 He’s obviously like yeah, yeah, please, if you could help us, that would be amazing. 00:41:28.349 --> 00:41:32.690 JACK: Paint Parrot has engineered this whole situation so that it looks like he’s just 00:41:32.690 --> 00:41:34.550 helping out a friend in need. 00:41:34.550 --> 00:41:36.700 He hasn’t said anything about whistleblowing. 00:41:36.700 --> 00:41:40.359 He’s set it up so his [00:45:00] target feels like he might be in trouble and fortunately 00:41:40.359 --> 00:41:43.760 his new friend, Paint Parrot, might be able to save him. 00:41:43.760 --> 00:41:46.720 At this point, it’s time for Paint Parrot to make his final move. 00:41:46.720 --> 00:41:48.510 PAINT PARROT: Obviously, I go away. 00:41:48.510 --> 00:41:54.460 I know exactly what we’re gonna do because it’s all our plan at the end of the day. 00:41:54.460 --> 00:41:55.800 I leave it a few days, a week. 00:41:55.800 --> 00:41:59.640 I get in touch with him like hey, you know that thing we spoke about? 00:41:59.640 --> 00:42:04.040 I was like, I could introduce you to someone that could kind of help you out. 00:42:04.040 --> 00:42:05.840 He’s like oh my god, brilliant. 00:42:05.840 --> 00:42:13.260 We arrange a meeting in a conference center in a set of nice apartments in London. 00:42:13.260 --> 00:42:19.380 I basically walk him up and introduce him to the lawyer that deals directly with the 00:42:19.380 --> 00:42:23.260 – he’s a British lawyer who deals directly with the DOJ on these cases. 00:42:23.260 --> 00:42:28.350 I basically make an instruction and sit there for about five minutes before just kind of 00:42:28.350 --> 00:42:30.140 leaving the room and leaving him to it. 00:42:30.140 --> 00:42:34.910 JACK: So, as we know, that lawyer was there to help him blow the whistle on the company 00:42:34.910 --> 00:42:35.970 he worked for. 00:42:35.970 --> 00:42:40.700 It must have been a bit of a shock for this guy to realize this wasn’t just some friendly 00:42:40.700 --> 00:42:44.170 lawyer, but a person who knows this case inside and out. 00:42:44.170 --> 00:42:48.720 In that room, the lawyer explains to the target that the DOJ is looking for a whistleblower 00:42:48.720 --> 00:42:53.230 and promises that he will be granted full immunity from any of the company’s wrongdoings 00:42:53.230 --> 00:42:54.730 if he works with them. 00:42:54.730 --> 00:42:59.900 The whistleblower agreed to cooperate and just like that, months of research, planning, 00:42:59.900 --> 00:43:02.319 chasing, and deception was over. 00:43:02.319 --> 00:43:05.589 PAINT PARROT: The next thing I notice, I met up with him after that to give him a burner 00:43:05.589 --> 00:43:10.930 phone and a few other bits of equipment and obviously, the whole dynamic’s changed. 00:43:10.930 --> 00:43:12.609 He’s kind of weirded out. 00:43:12.609 --> 00:43:16.410 JACK: Do you ever tell this guy look, I just did this because it was my job? 00:43:16.410 --> 00:43:19.760 PAINT PARROT: No, I have no contact with him after. 00:43:19.760 --> 00:43:21.960 Yeah, once he gets handed off and… 00:43:21.960 --> 00:43:23.550 JACK: Well, have you ghosted him? 00:43:23.550 --> 00:43:26.160 Did he text you like bro, aren’t we hanging out this weekend? 00:43:26.160 --> 00:43:28.100 PAINT PARROT: They get told. 00:43:28.100 --> 00:43:33.430 It all gets explained to him and he gets told, you know, the ins and outs of my role, but 00:43:33.430 --> 00:43:36.020 that you won’t have any more contact with this guy. 00:43:36.020 --> 00:43:41.580 You knew him as whatever; if you are to bump into him in the street sometime or anything 00:43:41.580 --> 00:43:43.369 like that, you never met him. 00:43:43.369 --> 00:43:45.530 It’s kind of, that’s that. 00:43:45.530 --> 00:43:49.310 The phone number that was being used, that SIM card gets pulled out, snapped, and that’s 00:43:49.310 --> 00:43:50.310 it. 00:43:50.310 --> 00:43:52.990 JACK: I wonder if he felt used at that point or what. 00:43:52.990 --> 00:43:58.250 PAINT PARROT: Probably, but I mean, at this point he’s been – he’s doing a patriotic 00:43:58.250 --> 00:44:00.710 thing, helping a US investigation. 00:44:00.710 --> 00:44:11.420 He’s obviously had the carrot of the huge financial reward dangled in front of him. 00:44:11.420 --> 00:44:15.609 I think that’s probably enough to calm most people’s doubts about it. 00:44:15.609 --> 00:44:18.329 JACK: [MUSIC] You might be wondering where all these laws come from. 00:44:18.329 --> 00:44:23.780 In 2010, the United States passed a Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection 00:44:23.780 --> 00:44:24.780 Act. 00:44:24.780 --> 00:44:29.350 This was just a little over a year after the 2008 financial crisis when Wall Street executives 00:44:29.350 --> 00:44:31.810 and shady mortgage companies tanked the world economy. 00:44:31.810 --> 00:44:38.720 The Dodd-Frank Act was designed to stop something like that from ever happening again. 00:44:38.720 --> 00:44:42.820 One part of that bill had to deal with corporate whistleblowers, the people who come forward 00:44:42.820 --> 00:44:48.170 when they see their organization are doing something wrong or illegal and tell the government. 00:44:48.170 --> 00:44:51.660 Whistleblowers had already received protection from the feds when they came forward, but 00:44:51.660 --> 00:44:53.660 this bill did something new. 00:44:53.660 --> 00:44:58.540 To encourage more people to flip on their companies and report wrongdoings, this new 00:44:58.540 --> 00:45:03.000 law said whenever a whistleblower comes forward to provide good information in a case that 00:45:03.000 --> 00:45:08.450 results in a fine of over a million dollars, the whistleblower is awarded a bounty of anywhere 00:45:08.450 --> 00:45:14.550 from 10% to 30% of that fine which, if you do the math, a 10% bounty on a million dollar 00:45:14.550 --> 00:45:17.589 fine is $100,000. 00:45:17.589 --> 00:45:22.890 But these fines are often way up in the tens of millions of dollars, meaning that whistleblowers 00:45:22.890 --> 00:45:28.319 could be in a position to make a lot of cash by telling on their companies. 00:45:28.319 --> 00:45:33.110 In this case, Paint Parrot said the DOJ was estimating the fine could be in the billions 00:45:33.110 --> 00:45:37.839 of dollars because of how much corruption this company was accused of. 00:45:37.839 --> 00:45:43.550 10% of one billion dollars is 100 million dollars. 00:45:43.550 --> 00:45:47.150 Paint Parrot said that in situations like this, the reward would actually get split 00:45:47.150 --> 00:45:51.680 three ways between his British intelligence company he worked for, the American company 00:45:51.680 --> 00:45:55.780 that partnered with the DOJ, and the whistleblower himself. 00:45:55.780 --> 00:46:00.520 Even if this was split three ways, that’s still life-changing money for everyone. 00:46:00.520 --> 00:46:06.069 Looking at the SEC’s website in October 2020, the SEC paid out the highest reward 00:46:06.069 --> 00:46:10.590 ever to a whistleblower; 114 million dollars. 00:46:10.590 --> 00:46:16.330 To date, they’ve paid out over 700 million dollars to different whistleblowers. 00:46:16.330 --> 00:46:21.770 That’s why this company Paint Parrot worked for was in the business of bringing whistleblowers 00:46:21.770 --> 00:46:24.590 forward, because they wanted a chunk of this change. 00:46:24.590 --> 00:46:28.930 That’s one of the weirdest business models I’ve ever heard of; a company in the business 00:46:28.930 --> 00:46:31.069 of making whistleblowers. 00:46:31.069 --> 00:46:33.559 Yeah, and let’s back up for a second. 00:46:33.559 --> 00:46:39.290 This is the whole impetus of why your company, your [00:50:00] agency, wanted to do this, 00:46:39.290 --> 00:46:44.980 is because they wanted to get – cash in on this sort of bounty, and that’s why they’re 00:46:44.980 --> 00:46:48.960 like, let’s make the whistleblowers, let’s find the whistleblowers before they’re even 00:46:48.960 --> 00:46:52.020 ready to whistle-blow so that we can cash in on this bounty, ‘cause that would be 00:46:52.020 --> 00:46:53.020 a lot for that company. 00:46:53.020 --> 00:46:54.020 PAINT PARROT: Exactly. 00:46:54.020 --> 00:46:56.630 That’s retirement money for the guys that own the business. 00:46:56.630 --> 00:46:59.260 These things take years and years and years to pay out. 00:46:59.260 --> 00:47:03.980 It’s not a quick sort of get-rich-quick scheme for them. 00:47:03.980 --> 00:47:09.040 I think only like 20% of them or something like that ever pay out, so it kind of becomes 00:47:09.040 --> 00:47:14.550 a game of volume, so the more whistleblowers or more cases they can find, the more chance 00:47:14.550 --> 00:47:17.020 they have of one of them paying out. 00:47:17.020 --> 00:47:20.390 Obviously that’s not something we say to the whistleblowers, that there’s only a 00:47:20.390 --> 00:47:23.420 percentage chance that it’s actually gonna pay out. 00:47:23.420 --> 00:47:28.020 That’s, yeah, because then you lose that whole financial incentive for them. 00:47:28.020 --> 00:47:32.319 JACK: Yeah, these groups don’t even know if the SEC will for sure pay out a bounty 00:47:32.319 --> 00:47:33.609 or not. 00:47:33.609 --> 00:47:38.319 On one hand, more whistleblowers might come forward to protect from sketchy business practices 00:47:38.319 --> 00:47:43.430 which is obviously good, but you’ve also got this weird, secretive industry now of 00:47:43.430 --> 00:47:49.610 professional whistleblower-chasers and groomers who are gathering information on people and 00:47:49.610 --> 00:47:54.069 convincing them to upend their lives knowing there’s a chance they won’t receive anything 00:47:54.069 --> 00:47:55.440 from it. 00:47:55.440 --> 00:48:01.420 As for the specific whistleblower in this case, Paint Parrot says the SEC is still investigating 00:48:01.420 --> 00:48:05.640 this, so we don’t know if he’ll get his payout or not. 00:48:05.640 --> 00:48:07.970 [MUSIC] Let’s zoom out a little bit. 00:48:07.970 --> 00:48:14.240 After this, this seemed to be – like you said, it’s still ongoing, so these things 00:48:14.240 --> 00:48:18.470 take a long time, but it seemed to be a successful mission for this agency that you were working 00:48:18.470 --> 00:48:19.470 for, right? 00:48:19.470 --> 00:48:21.000 Let’s go find a whistle – let’s go make a whistleblower. 00:48:21.000 --> 00:48:22.210 You found – made one. 00:48:22.210 --> 00:48:25.460 Did they say okay, let’s do it again? 00:48:25.460 --> 00:48:26.680 PAINT PARROT: Yeah. 00:48:26.680 --> 00:48:32.520 Basically, right after finishing that, destroyed that SIM card and that burner phone – and 00:48:32.520 --> 00:48:36.460 I probably took a weekend off – and before I knew it, it was like ah, as you did that 00:48:36.460 --> 00:48:44.200 one so well, we’re starting to look at this company, and kinda the same process starts 00:48:44.200 --> 00:48:45.430 all over again. 00:48:45.430 --> 00:48:47.120 JACK: Wow. 00:48:47.120 --> 00:48:52.000 Paint Parrot kept on doing this sort of whistleblower cultivation with that company for a few more 00:48:52.000 --> 00:48:58.160 years until he decided to go his own way and start his own company which does surveillance 00:48:58.160 --> 00:48:59.160 work. 00:48:59.160 --> 00:49:04.030 He says he’s mainly given up on the corporate intelligence beat and instead he mostly focuses 00:49:04.030 --> 00:49:10.520 on penetration testing, social engineering, and red teaming. 00:49:10.520 --> 00:49:17.970 (OUTRO): [OUTRO MUSIC] A big thank you to Paint Parrot for sharing his story with us. 00:49:17.970 --> 00:49:19.920 This one was wild, wasn’t it? 00:49:19.920 --> 00:49:25.020 If you like this show, if it brings value to you, consider donating to it through Patreon. 00:49:25.020 --> 00:49:28.370 By directly supporting the show, it helps keep ads at a minimum. 00:49:28.370 --> 00:49:31.950 It helps get people to make the show and it tells me you want more of it. 00:49:31.950 --> 00:49:37.420 Please visit patreon.com/darknetdiaries and consider supporting the show. 00:49:37.420 --> 00:49:38.430 Thank you. 00:49:38.430 --> 00:49:41.470 This show is made by me, the public eye, Jack Rhysider. 00:49:41.470 --> 00:49:44.589 This episode was produced by the not-so-green Christian Green. 00:49:44.589 --> 00:49:49.839 Sound design and original music was created by the mesmerizing Andrew Meriwether, editing 00:49:49.839 --> 00:49:55.160 help this episode by the slow-dancer Damienne, and our theme music is by the bouncy Breakmaster 00:49:55.160 --> 00:49:56.450 Cylinder. 00:49:56.450 --> 00:50:01.049 Even though I would sometimes get in trouble for reserving a conference room all day because 00:50:01.049 --> 00:50:10.079 I thought my cubicle was just too small, this is Darknet Diaries.