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Not too long ago, I heard about a

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delegation of leaders from a village

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located in the state of Acre,

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Brazil.

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They were traveling in the United

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States to spread a message that the

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Amazon, their home, is being

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destroyed.

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The impact of this destruction

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isn't just local.

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It threatens everything.

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People, plants, animals, insects,

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trees, disrupting entire

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weather patterns.

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This traveling delegation is part of

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an indigenous group called the

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Noke Koi.

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And they are responding to mounting

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interest around ayahuasca,

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this psychoactive plant brew that

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they call Uni.

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The Noke Koi mostly welcome

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this attention, but only if

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it's coupled with a commitment to

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saving the place where these

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mind-altering plants grow,

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the tropical forests of South

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America.

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This summer, I had the chance to

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speak with members of the Noke Koi

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delegation, the chief, the group's

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medicine man, and some musicians.

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They were making their way to a

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psychedelics conference in Denver.

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And today, we are bringing

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that conversation to you.

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I'm Arielle Duhaime-Ross,

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and this is Altered States.

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So to start, can I just have you

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introduce yourself?

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Olá, bom dia a todos.

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Meu nome é Yamano

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Manawa, eu sou

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cacique geral.

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Hello, good morning everyone.

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My name is Yama Nomanawa.

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I'm the chief of the Nomanawa

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village. I'm from Acre, Brazil.

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My role as a leader is to care

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for my people and also care for our

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land. Care for the forests,

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the animals, the rivers,

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care for our wisdom and our native

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plants. That is the role of a

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leader, to protect what's around us.

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Using our Noke Koi tradition.

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Can you talk about the decision

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to share Unі with foreigners?

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A minha decisão própria,

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ou seja, com o povo,

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The decision is my own on behalf of

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my people, since I'm their chief.

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From the middle of the forest, and

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with our sacred medicine uni,

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we do our work, we sing, we

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pray along with our whole family,

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but a new moment has come.

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I think this is a new time, a

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time for spirits to ally,

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a time to speak or announce

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to the world that this medicine

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exists.

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The forest exists, the sacred

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knowledge exists.

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This is the moment to bring the

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knowledge of the forest to the rest

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of the world.

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We need to learn how to respect the

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earth, respect the spirit of

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the forest, the spirit of

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each medicine and its origins

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and the origin of the people.

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While this medicine has been talked

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about in many parts of the world,

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the truth has been left behind.

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What is the truth?

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Many people work with this medicine

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but do not understand the roots

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of the spirit of the medicine,

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the richness of the medicine.

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My message wherever I go in the

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world, inside or outside the

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village, in the city, anywhere

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I go is sharing this sacred wisdom

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with people so we can live well,

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so we can unite.

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We observe things happening around

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the world and we never had the

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opportunity to get out and share our

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knowledge and explain to others

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what is happening in Brazil, in

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Acre, in our villages.

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So I made the decision to share the

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wisdom we received in the forest.

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Illegal logging has been blamed for

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turning plush rainforest into

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a patchwork of trees and farmland.

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Brazil loses millions of acres of

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rainforest every year to illegal

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logging, mining, and also to

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agricultural expansion.

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What does that look like from the

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vantage point of your village?

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Como eu vejo

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aquecimento da terra.

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I see the warming of the earth.

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The rivers getting dry every year.

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The Amazon has had its worst

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forest fires in two decades.

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More than sixty-two thousand square

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kilometers have been thrown

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Os peixes vão embora, os peixes

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morrem.

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The fish leave or die.

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Fruit is disappearing from the

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forest or are coming off season.

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In dry seasons no one

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is able to eat properly because the

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fish are gone.

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Brazil's government is rolling back

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environmental protections in a

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massive chunk of the Amazon range

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Não tem mais água.

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Not enough water.

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For instance, last year the

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Taori River had half of

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its normal water level.

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Three years ago there were lots of

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fish and the river was deeper.

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I decided to travel and share

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this knowledge because the forest is

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being destroyed.

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This is the Cachoeira Seca

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Indigenous Reserve, where

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deforestation is strictly

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prohibited.

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But illegal loggers and ranchers

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have cleared forest and destroyed

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unique flora.

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Então nas minhas viagens eu vejo.

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In my travels I see other indigenous

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land where standing forests still

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exist.

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Beyond indigenous land, there are

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only farms, cattle, soy

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plantations.

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There are no more medicines,

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no more standing forests.

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We see only black smoke.

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This is why I left my village and I

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am here to share this wisdom.

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Então eu faço pergunta pra

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mim mesmo.

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I always ask myself why large

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companies don't recognize indigenous

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peoples, don't respect the forest,

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and don't help minimize sickness.

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In order to create this unity with

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other people, I had to leave my

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village, bring this knowledge out

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into the world and hope other people

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are able to help the forest and

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the planet.

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We live in a land that does not

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belong to us, the land that holds

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the graves of our great Romayas,

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the great masters of medicine,

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masters of music and healing.

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They were buried in that region, and

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today it is a state reserve.

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Still, we protect that forest

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and the medicine and the lineage of

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the Noke Koi people.

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I'm working on behalf of future

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generations.

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I think of the children.

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In my journey here, I'm speaking and

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asking people because Cacique Yama

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needs help to at least

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have a small piece of our

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ancestral land returned to us

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so we can continue our prayers

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for humanity and the world and

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protect the spirit of our masters.

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Protect the ancestral burials.

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It is going to take a long time.

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Even if we do not get our land back

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to the Nomanawa clan, our

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clan, our prayer, our

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fight, our voice, the scream

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of the earth, the scream of the

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Amazon forest will always be

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alive in future generations.

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You talk about taking care of the

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forest and I'm wondering what does

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that look like and what challenges

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do you encounter when you're trying

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to go about that?

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Proteger a floresta é

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não derrubar uma árvore,

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não destruir árvores.

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Então isso significa

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proteger a floresta.

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Protecting the forest simply means

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not cutting the tree, not toppling

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the tree, not destroying the

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tree.

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That is protecting the forest.

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I see the life of the native

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people of the forest, and I also

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see the people that do not respect

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the forest.

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Our wisdom is about caring

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for the forest, for the sacred

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plants, for our tradition.

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Life is different in the forest.

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We have different traditions,

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different customs, different

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languages.

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We enjoy this light, this land,

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this knowledge, this connection to

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nature.

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Without the rainforest, we

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are nothing.

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The life of the indigenous peoples

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is nothing.

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The forest protects us,

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and we must protect the

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standing forest.

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Life is in nature.

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In our region in Acre, Brazil,

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the forest that still stands

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protects us, but the forest has been

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toppled.

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What happens is this the earth

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warms, heats up a lot,

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then come all types of diseases,

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all because humans are not

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respecting the forest.

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To me, this is very bad.

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We have to do something.

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If we keep destroying the forest,

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we'll lose the power of the earth

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and lose our culture, our

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medicine.

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These medicines are important

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and they are abundant in the

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middle of the forest.

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You mentioned that you will lose

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your traditional medicines if your

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forests aren't protected.

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Which medicines are you referring

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00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:29,129
to?

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A medicina, quando

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eu falo da medicina,

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incluindo tudo.

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When I speak about medicine, I'm

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speaking about everything like

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ayahuasca, kambo or sananga

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and other types of sacred herbs that

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exist in the forest.

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When humans destroy the forest,

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we lose all these.

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In my language, ayahuasca is

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called uni.

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The word comes from the union of

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the people, of the family, of

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a nation.

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Since our first generation, inside

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the uni journey, we learn

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to connect with the earth spirit,

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the forest spirit, to

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all the medicines, all the

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animals and everything around

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us.

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We take this medicine, we enter

287
00:09:11,970 --> 00:09:13,809
its power, travel to

288
00:09:13,810 --> 00:09:15,729
the spiritual world, and we

289
00:09:15,730 --> 00:09:17,649
see what is hurting this person, and

290
00:09:17,650 --> 00:09:19,489
we're able to help heal the

291
00:09:19,490 --> 00:09:21,889
body and save the family.

292
00:09:21,890 --> 00:09:23,889
So it is through the use of this

293
00:09:23,890 --> 00:09:25,809
medicine that we learn respect

294
00:09:25,810 --> 00:09:27,649
and get our education in the middle

295
00:09:27,650 --> 00:09:28,849
of the forest.

296
00:09:28,850 --> 00:09:30,929
I myself was born, raised

297
00:09:30,930 --> 00:09:32,929
and educated inside this

298
00:09:32,930 --> 00:09:34,609
school of the spirit.

299
00:09:34,610 --> 00:09:36,929
My role is to defend and protect

300
00:09:36,930 --> 00:09:38,769
this sacred medicine.

301
00:09:38,770 --> 00:09:40,609
A lot of people say that uni is

302
00:09:40,610 --> 00:09:42,448
a drug, but for us,

303
00:09:42,449 --> 00:09:44,289
it is not a drug, it's medicine.

304
00:09:45,809 --> 00:09:46,769
Cacique, I want to ask this question

305
00:09:46,770 --> 00:09:48,849
directly to Sheka Nominawa, who's

306
00:09:48,850 --> 00:09:50,049
also here with you.

307
00:09:50,050 --> 00:09:51,489
And from what I understand, we're

308
00:09:51,490 --> 00:09:53,649
gonna need your help to translate

309
00:09:53,650 --> 00:09:55,256
from his tribal language, Noke Vana,

310
00:09:56,290 --> 00:09:57,489
to Portuguese.

311
00:09:57,490 --> 00:09:59,328
So, Shekah you're the healer in your

312
00:09:59,329 --> 00:10:00,688
village. Some would call you the

313
00:10:00,689 --> 00:10:02,688
forest doctor or the pajé.

314
00:10:02,689 --> 00:10:04,129
What does it mean to be a healer

315
00:10:04,130 --> 00:10:05,130
within this community?

316
00:10:05,970 --> 00:10:06,970
Bom é

317
00:10:08,130 --> 00:10:10,049
sobre a cura

318
00:10:10,050 --> 00:10:11,050
do Pajé

319
00:10:12,530 --> 00:10:14,529
é como o papel

320
00:10:14,530 --> 00:10:15,769
do Pajé.

321
00:10:15,770 --> 00:10:17,329
Não é qualquer pessoa.

322
00:10:17,330 --> 00:10:19,089
Not everyone can be a pajé.

323
00:10:19,090 --> 00:10:20,929
The pajé is chosen by the

324
00:10:20,930 --> 00:10:22,209
spirit.

325
00:10:22,210 --> 00:10:24,129
He did not have an interest in

326
00:10:24,130 --> 00:10:25,329
being a pajé.

327
00:10:25,330 --> 00:10:27,489
He didn't think of it or dream

328
00:10:27,490 --> 00:10:29,329
of it. He did not hope

329
00:10:29,330 --> 00:10:30,529
for it.

330
00:10:30,530 --> 00:10:32,449
One day he was hunting in the

331
00:10:32,450 --> 00:10:34,609
forest and he came across a large

332
00:10:34,610 --> 00:10:35,489
serpent.

333
00:10:35,490 --> 00:10:37,329
At that moment, he knew what he was

334
00:10:37,330 --> 00:10:38,449
going to become.

335
00:10:38,450 --> 00:10:40,289
During this meeting, the serpent

336
00:10:40,290 --> 00:10:42,129
gave him the power, and that's

337
00:10:42,130 --> 00:10:43,130
when he became the pajé.

338
00:10:44,450 --> 00:10:46,289
Now he looks after the people,

339
00:10:46,290 --> 00:10:47,290
the family.

340
00:10:48,290 --> 00:10:50,289
The job of the pajé is to take

341
00:10:50,290 --> 00:10:52,289
the medicine and travel

342
00:10:52,290 --> 00:10:54,369
within the person's body and

343
00:10:54,370 --> 00:10:56,049
find the sickness.

344
00:10:56,050 --> 00:10:57,889
The pajé identifies

345
00:10:57,890 --> 00:10:59,649
the type of the suffering, be it a

346
00:10:59,650 --> 00:11:01,409
headache or a fever.

347
00:11:01,410 --> 00:11:03,409
Then through this spirit, he

348
00:11:03,410 --> 00:11:05,329
decides how and what to do to

349
00:11:05,330 --> 00:11:06,369
take away the pain.

350
00:11:06,370 --> 00:11:08,449
What type of prayer to use, how

351
00:11:08,450 --> 00:11:10,449
to begin, how to see

352
00:11:10,450 --> 00:11:12,289
where in the spirit the person is

353
00:11:12,290 --> 00:11:14,129
suffering, how the spirit

354
00:11:14,130 --> 00:11:15,809
is being attacked.

355
00:11:15,810 --> 00:11:17,220
So this is the work of the pajé.

356
00:11:21,650 --> 00:11:23,809
I do want to ask you about uni

357
00:11:23,810 --> 00:11:25,328
a little bit. Again, this is for the

358
00:11:25,329 --> 00:11:26,208
pajé.

359
00:11:26,209 --> 00:11:28,129
Are there Noke Koi people who don't

360
00:11:28,130 --> 00:11:29,249
take uni?

361
00:11:29,250 --> 00:11:31,169
And how often do people in

362
00:11:31,170 --> 00:11:32,929
your community consume uni?

363
00:11:32,930 --> 00:11:34,369
How often do you advise them to

364
00:11:34,370 --> 00:11:35,539
consume it?

365
00:11:35,540 --> 00:11:37,460
Quando é família

366
00:11:38,980 --> 00:11:41,139
a Neika se vê aqui conhecimento.

367
00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:51,759
In our region, near the Tawari

368
00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:53,839
River, our entire Nomanawa

369
00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:55,359
family takes the medicine.

370
00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:57,359
A ten year old child will

371
00:11:57,360 --> 00:11:59,599
already start taking the medicine.

372
00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:01,679
We will take it three times

373
00:12:01,680 --> 00:12:02,479
a week.

374
00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:04,719
That's because it's our tradition,

375
00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:06,239
it's our culture.

376
00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:08,079
We cannot lose our culture.

377
00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:09,599
It is our sacred path.

378
00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:11,519
Like I said, it is a school

379
00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:14,009
and a school cannot close.

380
00:12:14,010 --> 00:12:15,289
I want to turn back to you again,

381
00:12:15,290 --> 00:12:17,529
Cacique Yama Nomanawa.

382
00:12:17,530 --> 00:12:18,969
How old were you the first time that

383
00:12:18,970 --> 00:12:19,970
you tried Uni?

384
00:12:20,830 --> 00:12:22,749
Primeiramente, dentro da

385
00:12:22,750 --> 00:12:24,249
minha tradição,

386
00:12:24,250 --> 00:12:25,769
First in our tradition, starting

387
00:12:25,770 --> 00:12:27,369
when we are children, our parents

388
00:12:27,370 --> 00:12:28,889
pass along the knowledge.

389
00:12:28,890 --> 00:12:30,889
They explain how uni works so

390
00:12:30,890 --> 00:12:32,649
we can enter this tradition.

391
00:12:32,650 --> 00:12:34,649
My father and mother gave me more

392
00:12:34,650 --> 00:12:35,609
knowledge.

393
00:12:35,610 --> 00:12:37,609
They showed me how to be part of

394
00:12:37,610 --> 00:12:39,369
this school when I was twelve or

395
00:12:39,370 --> 00:12:40,728
thirteen years old.

396
00:12:40,729 --> 00:12:42,728
That's when I began taking the

397
00:12:42,729 --> 00:12:43,609
medicine.

398
00:12:43,610 --> 00:12:45,529
My first cup of the medicine showed

399
00:12:45,530 --> 00:12:47,529
me how the Noke Koi people came to

400
00:12:47,530 --> 00:12:49,609
be, how I can live in the middle

401
00:12:49,610 --> 00:12:51,529
of the forest, and how I can

402
00:12:51,530 --> 00:12:53,448
lead my people, connect with

403
00:12:53,449 --> 00:12:55,369
the spirit of the animals

404
00:12:55,370 --> 00:12:56,969
and the spirit of the water.

405
00:12:58,250 --> 00:12:59,848
It showed me how to organize the

406
00:12:59,849 --> 00:13:01,688
people and ally with other brothers,

407
00:13:01,689 --> 00:13:03,688
indigenous and non indigenous,

408
00:13:03,689 --> 00:13:05,848
and how to access the power to pray,

409
00:13:05,849 --> 00:13:07,289
to sing the tiding day of the

410
00:13:07,290 --> 00:13:09,129
Noke Koi people, counsel

411
00:13:09,130 --> 00:13:10,649
the people, and enter the world of

412
00:13:10,650 --> 00:13:12,489
Saite and enter the realm of

413
00:13:12,490 --> 00:13:14,249
the healing spirit.

414
00:13:14,250 --> 00:13:16,249
These experiences and this knowledge

415
00:13:16,250 --> 00:13:18,968
that come to us come from the stars.

416
00:13:18,969 --> 00:13:20,968
The light that descends powerfully

417
00:13:20,969 --> 00:13:23,369
into our minds and heart energizes

418
00:13:23,370 --> 00:13:24,799
our bodies.

419
00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:26,639
I know that music is an integral

420
00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:28,559
part of ayahuasca ceremonies

421
00:13:28,560 --> 00:13:30,399
in your culture and you

422
00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:31,999
have musicians here today in the

423
00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:33,198
studio with you.

424
00:13:33,199 --> 00:13:34,879
I want to hear some of their music,

425
00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:36,958
but first can you tell me what role

426
00:13:36,959 --> 00:13:39,119
music plays exactly in your culture

427
00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:41,169
and and what the songs are about?

428
00:13:41,170 --> 00:13:43,409
É, o papel da música,

429
00:13:43,410 --> 00:13:46,019
na verdade, é o trabalho dos tianás.

430
00:13:46,020 --> 00:13:47,699
The role of the music is in fact the

431
00:13:47,700 --> 00:13:49,219
real work of the Txanãs or

432
00:13:49,220 --> 00:13:50,179
musicians.

433
00:13:50,180 --> 00:13:51,939
The songs they sing during

434
00:13:51,940 --> 00:13:53,779
ceremonies are spirit songs.

435
00:13:53,780 --> 00:13:55,619
The Txanãs enter the force of

436
00:13:55,620 --> 00:13:57,539
the medicine, travel through the

437
00:13:57,540 --> 00:13:59,379
spirit world, they call for

438
00:13:59,380 --> 00:14:01,299
it and listen to the music of the

439
00:14:01,300 --> 00:14:02,579
stars.

440
00:14:02,580 --> 00:14:04,419
Through music, the Txanãs illuminate

441
00:14:04,420 --> 00:14:05,859
the path to people.

442
00:14:05,860 --> 00:14:07,699
Through music, they bring images,

443
00:14:07,700 --> 00:14:10,499
colors, and flowers from the stars.

444
00:14:10,500 --> 00:14:12,819
They bring joy into people's hearts.

445
00:14:12,820 --> 00:14:14,659
They bring divine light to the

446
00:14:14,660 --> 00:14:16,819
body and heart.

447
00:14:16,820 --> 00:14:18,579
There are several types of music.

448
00:14:18,580 --> 00:14:20,419
Some are just about joy, some

449
00:14:20,420 --> 00:14:22,019
are about journeys, some are about

450
00:14:22,020 --> 00:14:23,859
traveling through the spirit world.

451
00:14:23,860 --> 00:14:25,425
Some of these we call saités.

452
00:14:26,660 --> 00:14:28,180
These are about fighting illness.

453
00:14:43,270 --> 00:14:44,629
They tap into the power of the

454
00:14:44,630 --> 00:14:46,549
medicine and guide people

455
00:14:46,550 --> 00:14:48,469
in connecting to the stars and

456
00:14:48,470 --> 00:14:50,309
touch the great spirit,

457
00:14:50,310 --> 00:14:52,149
understand the path, and connect

458
00:14:52,150 --> 00:14:55,029
with life, health, union.

459
00:14:55,030 --> 00:14:56,789
That's the role of the music.

460
00:14:56,790 --> 00:14:58,549
We sing these songs while reaching

461
00:14:58,550 --> 00:14:59,589
for the spirits.

462
00:14:59,590 --> 00:15:01,749
In truth, the music we sing during

463
00:15:01,750 --> 00:15:03,349
ceremonies often have no

464
00:15:03,350 --> 00:15:04,309
translation.

465
00:15:04,310 --> 00:15:06,389
They are in the spirit languages.

466
00:15:06,390 --> 00:15:08,629
We simply mimic the language

467
00:15:08,630 --> 00:15:10,309
spoken by the spirit.

468
00:15:10,310 --> 00:15:11,749
You cannot translate it.

469
00:15:11,750 --> 00:15:13,429
It is the language of the people

470
00:15:13,430 --> 00:15:16,229
that live connected to the stars.

471
00:15:16,230 --> 00:15:18,068
It's a language of the spirits

472
00:15:18,069 --> 00:15:20,229
who take away illness, cleanse

473
00:15:20,230 --> 00:15:22,469
our bodies, minds, and hearts.

474
00:15:22,470 --> 00:15:24,389
These spirits sing in the power

475
00:15:24,390 --> 00:15:25,390
of the medicine.

476
00:15:31,590 --> 00:15:33,029
When would you use this song during

477
00:15:33,030 --> 00:15:34,030
a ceremony?

478
00:15:35,180 --> 00:15:37,019
É, a música cantada na

479
00:15:37,020 --> 00:15:38,299
cerimônia não é...

480
00:15:38,300 --> 00:15:40,739
não tem horário, não tem...

481
00:15:40,740 --> 00:15:42,099
There's no right moment in the

482
00:15:42,100 --> 00:15:43,459
ceremony for singing.

483
00:15:43,460 --> 00:15:45,459
It is dependent on the spirit

484
00:15:45,460 --> 00:15:46,979
who comes to us.

485
00:15:46,980 --> 00:15:47,980
We may be singing

486
00:15:49,620 --> 00:15:50,620
saités, tirindês or a Txanãs song.

487
00:15:50,980 --> 00:15:52,899
It depends on the presence of the

488
00:15:52,900 --> 00:15:54,899
Spirit. We don't choose a time

489
00:15:54,900 --> 00:15:56,340
or the right moment to sing.

490
00:16:02,460 --> 00:16:04,459
So part of sharing uni

491
00:16:04,460 --> 00:16:06,059
means that foreigners are coming to

492
00:16:06,060 --> 00:16:07,899
Acre and to your

493
00:16:07,900 --> 00:16:08,699
village.

494
00:16:08,700 --> 00:16:10,139
For the people who come to your

495
00:16:10,140 --> 00:16:11,899
village, what are they typically

496
00:16:11,900 --> 00:16:12,979
seeking?

497
00:16:12,980 --> 00:16:14,979
A pessoa precisa de

498
00:16:14,980 --> 00:16:15,999
cura.

499
00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:17,199
People need healing.

500
00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:19,439
They come and meet village pajés,

501
00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:21,439
see their rituals and community, and

502
00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:23,279
these people are feeling ill,

503
00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:25,359
headaches, body aches, aches

504
00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:27,199
of the heart, feeling the

505
00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:29,199
loss of their path, and it

506
00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:31,039
is a sacred moment, actually

507
00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:32,879
a sacred meeting, where

508
00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:34,879
they're able to find a way to

509
00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:37,119
healing, open their eyes,

510
00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:39,359
connect to the sacred Samauna

511
00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:41,679
trees, connect with our ancestral

512
00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:44,079
spirits who are the strong pajés

513
00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:45,080
buried there.

514
00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:47,759
The country we have worked with,

515
00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:49,599
especially the Nomanawa, is

516
00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:51,039
the United States.

517
00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:52,959
It's a small group, but to tell you

518
00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:55,199
the truth, our medicine man heals

519
00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:56,959
many kinds of illnesses.

520
00:16:56,960 --> 00:16:59,359
He is able to take away, remove,

521
00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:01,199
and clean the way to get to

522
00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:03,439
the place of real healing,

523
00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:05,439
the root of the culture,

524
00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:06,799
the root of the cure.

525
00:17:10,650 --> 00:17:12,649
When we return, a look at how Chief

526
00:17:12,650 --> 00:17:14,569
Yama Nomonawa is teaming up

527
00:17:14,570 --> 00:17:16,009
with other indigenous groups to

528
00:17:16,010 --> 00:17:17,369
advocate for the protection of the

529
00:17:17,370 --> 00:17:19,289
Noke Koi as well

530
00:17:19,290 --> 00:17:20,969
as the rainforest.

531
00:17:20,970 --> 00:17:21,970
Stick around.

532
00:17:34,110 --> 00:17:35,468
Welcome back to Altered States, I'm

533
00:17:35,469 --> 00:17:36,469
Arielle Duhaime-Ross.

534
00:17:36,750 --> 00:17:38,829
I've been talking to Cacique Yama

535
00:17:38,830 --> 00:17:41,388
Nomonawa, the chief of the Noke Koi,

536
00:17:41,389 --> 00:17:43,069
an indigenous group from Brazil.

537
00:17:43,070 --> 00:17:44,428
And before the break, we were

538
00:17:44,429 --> 00:17:46,428
discussing how the Noke Koi began

539
00:17:46,429 --> 00:17:47,628
inviting foreigners to drink

540
00:17:47,629 --> 00:17:49,628
ayahuasca in their village.

541
00:17:49,629 --> 00:17:51,148
But the international interest in

542
00:17:51,149 --> 00:17:52,989
ayahuasca has created new

543
00:17:52,990 --> 00:17:54,100
problems as well for the Noke Koi

544
00:17:55,310 --> 00:17:57,148
and other indigenous groups.

545
00:17:57,149 --> 00:17:59,148
And earlier this year, the Noke Koi

546
00:17:59,149 --> 00:18:01,069
leadership participated in the fifth

547
00:18:01,070 --> 00:18:02,908
annual Indigenous Ayahuasca

548
00:18:02,909 --> 00:18:03,829
Conference in Brazil.

549
00:18:03,830 --> 00:18:05,989
E hoje é o começo

550
00:18:05,990 --> 00:18:07,189
de uma nova era.

551
00:18:07,190 --> 00:18:08,709
It brought thirty four different

552
00:18:08,710 --> 00:18:10,549
indigenous groups together to focus

553
00:18:10,550 --> 00:18:12,789
on quote the defense of ancestral

554
00:18:12,790 --> 00:18:14,709
knowledge about ayahuasca and

555
00:18:14,710 --> 00:18:16,549
self determination of indigenous

556
00:18:16,550 --> 00:18:18,389
people. This is a recording of a

557
00:18:18,390 --> 00:18:19,749
speech given at that conference.

558
00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:22,839
Nossos governantes, as leis

559
00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:23,840
do mundo.

560
00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:25,759
At the fifth annual Indigenous

561
00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:27,599
Conference in Brazil, you, along

562
00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:28,959
with dozens of other indigenous

563
00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:30,639
groups, signed a letter.

564
00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:32,159
Can you tell me what this letter was

565
00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:34,139
about and why it's important?

566
00:18:34,140 --> 00:18:35,179
Primeira vez também que eu

567
00:18:35,180 --> 00:18:36,779
participei dessa conferência, a

568
00:18:36,780 --> 00:18:39,039
quinta conferência de Ayahuasca.

569
00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:40,079
This was the first time I

570
00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:41,759
participated in a conference about

571
00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:43,759
ayahuasca, and this was

572
00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:45,439
about how we wanted the medicine to

573
00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:46,399
be used.

574
00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:48,159
Today the medicine is not being

575
00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:49,199
respected.

576
00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:50,959
The medicine is being sold and

577
00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:53,039
transported all over the world.

578
00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:54,719
Another thing that was agreed upon

579
00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:56,959
amongst all the indigenous leaders,

580
00:18:56,960 --> 00:18:58,799
we do not want inexperienced

581
00:18:58,800 --> 00:18:59,999
people without knowledge of the

582
00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:01,839
medicine who do not know the spirit

583
00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:03,279
of the plant to work with the

584
00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:04,280
medicine.

585
00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:06,239
No one can work with it in this

586
00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:07,039
manner.

587
00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:08,879
Today we ask many people

588
00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:10,719
in federal government and even

589
00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:12,559
at the United Nations, why

590
00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:14,319
the indigenous peoples are not

591
00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:15,679
allowed to work with our own

592
00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:18,159
medicines, which is so sacred,

593
00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:19,999
a natural remedy that has

594
00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:22,079
the power to heal humanity.

595
00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:23,999
Why we do not have the right

596
00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:26,079
to travel with our own medicine?

597
00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:27,759
We do not even have the right to

598
00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:29,759
perform a ceremony, not

599
00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:32,319
even speak about the medicine.

600
00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:34,319
So the letter contains a call

601
00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:36,479
for changing the law and creating

602
00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:38,239
a way for us to be able to work

603
00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:39,680
freely with the medicine.

604
00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:42,799
This is a major concern of the

605
00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:44,479
indigenous leaders who participated

606
00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:46,959
in the fifth ayahuasca conference.

607
00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:48,799
Today our medicine is being sold

608
00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:50,799
at stores or other commercial

609
00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:52,639
spaces, and that is

610
00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:54,559
unacceptable.

611
00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:56,639
We have even heard of

612
00:19:56,640 --> 00:19:58,559
ayahuasca vape pens,

613
00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:01,199
ayahuasca in microdosing.

614
00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:02,479
This is wrong.

615
00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:04,319
Ayahuasca is to be used in

616
00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:05,320
ceremonies.

617
00:20:06,330 --> 00:20:08,329
In this letter from the indigenous

618
00:20:08,330 --> 00:20:10,169
leaders, there's a portion

619
00:20:10,170 --> 00:20:12,409
that states a desire to reject

620
00:20:12,410 --> 00:20:14,089
all forms of global

621
00:20:14,090 --> 00:20:16,569
commercialization of ayahuasca.

622
00:20:16,570 --> 00:20:18,519
What does that mean to you?

623
00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:20,519
É, isso é uma das grandes

624
00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:21,919
preocupações.

625
00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:23,679
This is definitely one of our major

626
00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:25,039
concerns.

627
00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:27,119
Because the right thing to do before

628
00:20:27,120 --> 00:20:29,039
commercializing would be to consult

629
00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:30,959
with the leaders of the peoples

630
00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:32,639
who have this medicine.

631
00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:34,159
If you do not consult with the

632
00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:35,599
indigenous guardians of the

633
00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:37,519
medicine, non-indigenous

634
00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:39,359
people who keep on exploiting the

635
00:20:39,360 --> 00:20:41,359
plant, while the ones who guard

636
00:20:41,360 --> 00:20:43,439
and know the medicine are kept

637
00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:44,319
away.

638
00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:46,319
While non-indigenous people build

639
00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:48,319
their churches and sacred spaces

640
00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:50,319
where they misuse the medicine,

641
00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:51,999
they use the medicine to start

642
00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:53,999
organizations and they forget the

643
00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:55,119
natives.

644
00:20:55,120 --> 00:20:57,039
Forget the origins of the plant

645
00:20:57,040 --> 00:20:59,199
and ignore the indigenous population

646
00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:01,359
who own the medicine.

647
00:21:01,360 --> 00:21:03,359
Many pajés, many villages,

648
00:21:03,360 --> 00:21:05,279
many indigenous peoples are

649
00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:07,519
living in scarcity.

650
00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:09,199
There are villages lacking clean

651
00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:09,999
water.

652
00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:12,719
There are families needing homes.

653
00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:14,639
The indigenous people are always

654
00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:15,759
forgotten.

655
00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:17,679
Still, people come, they

656
00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:19,359
take our culture, they take our

657
00:21:19,360 --> 00:21:21,039
medicine, and they forget our

658
00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:22,239
people.

659
00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:24,079
The ayahuasca medicine cannot

660
00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:25,839
be served by anyone.

661
00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:27,919
Ayahuasca is to be served by

662
00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:30,239
pajés, by caciques,

663
00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:32,079
but the great Txanãs, who are

664
00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:34,239
the ones who know the medicine.

665
00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:36,239
If you don't have the wisdom to work

666
00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:38,239
with this medicine, it's best

667
00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:39,839
not to do it.

668
00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:41,919
It is dangerous to the participants

669
00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:43,759
and dangerous to the people who are

670
00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:45,679
serving the medicine.

671
00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:47,759
This medicine is to heal,

672
00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:48,760
not for fun.

673
00:21:51,380 --> 00:21:53,139
Cacique Yama Nomanawa, thank you so

674
00:21:53,140 --> 00:21:54,659
much for coming here today and

675
00:21:54,660 --> 00:21:56,419
telling me about your culture and

676
00:21:56,420 --> 00:21:58,499
about Uni to the pajés

677
00:21:58,500 --> 00:22:00,099
as well. Please I I'd love if you

678
00:22:00,100 --> 00:22:01,679
could transmit my thank yous.

679
00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:03,679
Queria agradecer a todos

680
00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:04,639
vocês.

681
00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:06,479
Agradecendo mais uma vez ao

682
00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:08,479
grande espírito por me trazido até

683
00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:09,509
aqui.

684
00:22:09,510 --> 00:22:11,109
I want to say thank you to all of

685
00:22:11,110 --> 00:22:12,709
you and thank you to the great

686
00:22:12,710 --> 00:22:13,910
spirit for bringing me here.

687
00:22:17,580 --> 00:22:18,779
Altered States is a production of

688
00:22:18,780 --> 00:22:20,299
the UC Berkeley Center for the

689
00:22:20,300 --> 00:22:23,418
Science of Psychedelics and PRX.

690
00:22:23,419 --> 00:22:24,619
Cassady Rosenblum contributed

691
00:22:24,620 --> 00:22:26,138
reporting to this episode.

692
00:22:26,139 --> 00:22:28,459
Special thanks to Luna Ruckmaney.

693
00:22:28,460 --> 00:22:31,579
Voice acting by Andre Lacerda.

694
00:22:31,580 --> 00:22:33,259
Adizah Eghan is our senior editor.

695
00:22:33,260 --> 00:22:34,938
Our executive editor is

696
00:22:34,939 --> 00:22:36,779
Malia Wollan. Jennie Cataldo

697
00:22:36,780 --> 00:22:38,138
is our senior producer.

698
00:22:38,139 --> 00:22:40,539
Our researcher is Cassady Rosenblum.

699
00:22:40,540 --> 00:22:42,539
Our associate producer is Jade Abdul

700
00:22:42,540 --> 00:22:43,658
Malik.

701
00:22:43,659 --> 00:22:45,418
Our audio engineers are Terrence

702
00:22:45,419 --> 00:22:47,178
Bernardo and Jennie Cataldo.

703
00:22:47,179 --> 00:22:49,418
Fact checking by Graham Haysha.

704
00:22:49,419 --> 00:22:51,339
Our executive producers are

705
00:22:51,340 --> 00:22:53,259
Malia Wollan and Jocelyn Gonzales.

706
00:22:53,260 --> 00:22:54,698
And our project manager is Edwin

707
00:22:54,699 --> 00:22:55,739
Ochoa.

708
00:22:55,740 --> 00:22:57,739
Our theme music is by Thao Nguyen

709
00:22:57,740 --> 00:22:59,019
and Nate Brenner.

710
00:22:59,020 --> 00:23:01,418
I'm your host, Arielle Duhaime-Ross.

711
00:23:01,419 --> 00:23:03,339
Be sure to subscribe, rate, and

712
00:23:03,340 --> 00:23:05,178
review Altered States wherever you

713
00:23:05,179 --> 00:23:06,459
get your podcasts.

714
00:23:06,460 --> 00:23:08,138
We'll be back next week.

715
00:23:08,139 --> 00:23:09,979
Most well-known psychedelics remain

716
00:23:09,980 --> 00:23:11,579
illegal around the world, including

717
00:23:11,580 --> 00:23:12,938
the United States, where it is a

718
00:23:12,939 --> 00:23:14,619
criminal offense to manufacture,

719
00:23:14,620 --> 00:23:16,299
possess, dispense, or supply most

720
00:23:16,300 --> 00:23:18,619
psychedelics, with few exceptions.

721
00:23:18,620 --> 00:23:20,619
Altered States does not recommend

722
00:23:20,620 --> 00:23:22,698
or encourage the use of psychedelics

723
00:23:22,699 --> 00:23:24,379
or offer instructions in their use.