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Já tinha caminho, já fazia tempo

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que eu buscava conforto

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espiritual, meditação, eu

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fiz ragioga.

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I had been seeking spiritual comfort

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for some time.

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I did meditation, Raja

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Yoga.

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I tried going into spiritism,

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but didn't really like it.

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After some time I heard of someone

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who was drinking the tea and

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asked this person to take me along

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to a session.

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I was blown away.

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That one session felt like ten

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years of therapy.

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A sessão valeu por dez anos de

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terapia.

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Ana Duarte was 51

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the first time she tried ayahuasca.

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She was a politically progressive

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type, a banker and a poet who lived

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in Recife, Pernambuco,

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Brazil.

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In the early 2000s, Ana

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stumbled upon a group of people, a

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psychedelic church, called União

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do Vegetal, Portuguese

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for Union of the Plants.

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People call it the UDV,

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or the Union for short.

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Vegetal is one of their names

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for ayahuasca.

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Ana was so moved by her

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experience that she immediately

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joined.

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Encantou na União

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foi realmente o trabalho

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conjunto shama mutiram.

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What really captivated me in the UDV

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was the collective work.

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We had a sense of community.

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The preparations of ayahuasca

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felt like celebrations.

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Que eram verdadeiras festas

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realmente.

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Ayahuasca is a psychoactive brew

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made from a vine and a plant

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used in the UDV ceremonies.

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For over twenty years, Ana

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drank the tea and rituals every

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two weeks.

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She felt she had found her people,

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until one day in 2018,

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Ana attended an ayahuasca

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session led by a high ranking

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master or mestre in the church,

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ninety one year old Raimundo

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Monteiro de Souza.

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Mas estava todo mundo sob efeito.

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Era uma sessão da união.

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Todo mundo sob efeito da.

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Everyone was under the influence of

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ayahuasca, like in every

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session.

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It started off with chanting

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and then he said these things during

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the sermon.

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The session started off

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Off like normal.

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But what Monteo said next

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shocked her.

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E ele falou que

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o Bolsonaro era o

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candidato que devia se votar

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em Bolsonaro.

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He said Bolsonaro was his candidate

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that he knew what reвоtionaries were

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like, and people on the left wanted

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communism.

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He praised the armed forces and the

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military.

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Twenty eighteen was the year of a

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highly contentious presidential

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election in Brazil between the

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left wing workers' party and

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a hard right candidate named Jair

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Bolsonaro, who came to be

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known as the Trump of the Tropics.

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The Trump of the Tropics, the

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President of Brazil, Mr. Jai

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Bolsonaro.

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Nós somos a maioria!

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Nós somos o Brasil de

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verdade!

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Jair Bolsonaro.

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Supporters love his plain speaking

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style and hard stance on

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crime. Opponents fear his

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intolerance of activists,

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minorities, and ambivalence

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to the environment.

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For some UDV members, like

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Ana, twenty eighteen was

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the year that she and many others

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would begin to see their sacred

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psychedelic church in a

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different light.

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Porque quando tem essas sessões

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com mestres antigos.

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Many people had driven in from other

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states, which is common when you

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have sessions with eldest mestres.

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Some stood up in the middle of the

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session and drove off.

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Nossa senhora.

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These were people in an altered

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state, hallucinating from a powerful

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psychedelic.

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And despite that, they got in their

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cars and drove away.

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But not Ana.

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Yes, she too was horrified

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by the political message, but

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in that moment, she stayed.

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This week on the show, we go to

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Brazil. Reporter Julia Dias

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Carneiro takes us inside the UDV,

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a psychedelic church that claims

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to be nonpartisan and apolitical.

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But what transpired inside

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some UDV sessions during this highly

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polarized election and its aftermath

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seems to indicate otherwise.

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All of a sudden, things

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were getting decidedly partisan.

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I'm Arielle Duhaime-Ross and

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this is Altered States.

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Julia takes it from here.

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In 2018, Jair Bolsonaro

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took Brazil by storm.

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He promoted gun ownership, endorsed

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torture in Brazil's former

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dictatorship, and espoused sexist

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and racist views.

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But he appealed to conservative

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voters by defending the traditional

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family and promising to crack

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down on corruption.

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Brazilian journalist Carlos Minuano

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was taking notes.

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Meu nome é Carlos Minuano,

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eu sou jornalista.

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For over twenty years, Carlos has

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been following psychedelics and the

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UDV.

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He contributed reporting to this

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episode, and he says he noticed

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something strange in the lead up to

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the Bolsonaro.

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A partir de dois mil e dezoito.

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Starting from twenty eighteen, there

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were signs of a right wing

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psychedelia on social media,

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which started to pick up in the

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final stretch of the presidential

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campaign when Bolsonaro was elected.

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And this was very evident

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among the followers of the UDV.

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Carlos realized that people on the

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outside had no idea about this,

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so he began covering it.

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Em dois mil, a primeira

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reportagem sobre o DV

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dentro desse contexto.

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Twenty, I published my first piece

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about how this far right psychedelia

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was gaining traction inside the

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União do Vegetal.

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People approached me to say

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they were grateful to see this come

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out because there was a deep sense

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of discomfort, but no

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one had spoken up publicly until

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then.

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Tinha trazido isso.

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That divisive presidential election

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caused the rift inside the UDV.

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An estimated 2,000 members

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have left the religion, among them

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150 of its director.

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So, how did one of Brazil's oldest

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and most popular ayahuasca

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religions, founded to promote,

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quote, love and human fraternity,

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end up spreading right wing

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propaganda to people in an altered

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state?

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To understand how the UDV changed,

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you have to go back to the early

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days of the religion.

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Quando criou na cristal,

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foi com esse pensamento

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de fazer uma paz no mundo.

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This is the voice of José Gabriel

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da Costa.

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Mestre Gabriel, when he created

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the UDV in 1961,

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it was with this thought, he says,

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to make peace in the world.

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Mestre Gabriel migrated from

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Brazil's poor northeast to the

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Amazon during the Second World War.

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He was one of the soldados da

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borracha or rubber soldiers

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drafted to tap rubber in the

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rainforest for the United States

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war effort.

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It was in the Amazon that Mestre

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Gabriel first encountered ayahuasca.

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This video produced by the UDV

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describes his vision.

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The beneficent spirit of center,

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União do Vegetal, works

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for the development of the human

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being in the spiritual, moral,

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and intellectual sense.

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The UDV has grown to more than

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25,000 members today,

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in over 200 units called núcleos.

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There are now núcleos in eleven

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countries, including the US, Canada,

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Switzerland, and Australia.

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In fact, in 2000,

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the UDV sued the US government

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for the right to use ayahuasca.

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The case went all the way to the US

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Supreme Court, and in 2006,

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they won.

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The biggest and most influential

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ayahuasca Brazilian religions,

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and it became famous because

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it won the right to consume

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ayahuasca legally in the United

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States, which is not a small task.

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Brazilian anthropologist Bia Labate

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has been researching the ayahuasca

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field for almost thirty years.

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She's the executive director of the

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Chacruna Institute for Psychedelic

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Plant Medicines, a non profit

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advocacy group based in San

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Francisco.

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Bia describes the UDV's spiritual

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doctrine as a mix of a few

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different things.

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In broad terms you could say

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Amerindian shamanism, the

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use of ayahuasca with

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popular Catholicism,

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elements of European esoteric

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traditions, as well as some Afro

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religion elements.

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I think it manages to talk

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to people from different backgrounds

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from more humble rubber

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taper traditional populations

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from inside the Amazon forest

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to a wider range of

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liberal professionals,

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medical doctors, artists,

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intellectuals, people from big

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cities.

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It has a kind of poetry to

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it and appeal that

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with some kind of magical

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enchanted element

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from the forest and indigenous

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people.

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Brazil recognized the noncommercial

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cultural and religious use of

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ayahuasca almost four decades

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ago. Mestre Gabriel

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00:09:39,630 --> 00:09:41,629
died in nineteen seventy one, but

286
00:09:41,630 --> 00:09:43,389
he's still the religion's central

287
00:09:43,390 --> 00:09:45,228
figure. His picture hangs in all

288
00:09:45,229 --> 00:09:46,750
of the UDV's temples.

289
00:09:48,020 --> 00:09:49,859
Every single congregation, you

290
00:09:49,860 --> 00:09:51,859
know, will prepare their brew

291
00:09:51,860 --> 00:09:53,779
and plant the brew.

292
00:09:53,780 --> 00:09:55,539
And then you have children,

293
00:09:55,540 --> 00:09:57,859
grandparents, parents, cousins,

294
00:09:57,860 --> 00:10:00,019
the whole family together cooking

295
00:10:00,020 --> 00:10:01,459
ayahuasca.

296
00:10:01,460 --> 00:10:03,139
These special brewing sessions

297
00:10:03,140 --> 00:10:04,499
happen throughout the year.

298
00:10:04,500 --> 00:10:06,179
Followers also attend regular

299
00:10:06,180 --> 00:10:07,859
ceremonies every two weeks on

300
00:10:07,860 --> 00:10:09,059
Saturday night.

301
00:10:09,060 --> 00:10:11,539
They go on for about four hours.

302
00:10:11,540 --> 00:10:13,299
Everyone but the highest ranking

303
00:10:13,300 --> 00:10:15,059
masters wear green shirts to the

304
00:10:15,060 --> 00:10:17,219
sessions, and the color of the UDV

305
00:10:17,220 --> 00:10:19,299
logo embroidered on the shirt pocket

306
00:10:19,300 --> 00:10:20,899
indicates one's rank.

307
00:10:20,900 --> 00:10:22,339
There are four different ranks in

308
00:10:22,340 --> 00:10:23,459
the UDV.

309
00:10:23,460 --> 00:10:25,379
At the very top are the mestres

310
00:10:25,380 --> 00:10:26,419
or masters.

311
00:10:26,420 --> 00:10:28,259
At the bottom are the quote white

312
00:10:28,260 --> 00:10:30,099
pockets, the beginners.

313
00:10:30,100 --> 00:10:32,099
You can be promoted up or

314
00:10:32,100 --> 00:10:35,139
demoted down as punishment.

315
00:10:35,140 --> 00:10:36,659
At the start of the session,

316
00:10:36,660 --> 00:10:38,339
everyone lines up to receive a cup

317
00:10:38,340 --> 00:10:39,699
of ayahuasca.

318
00:10:39,700 --> 00:10:41,539
The top ranking members go

319
00:10:41,540 --> 00:10:43,619
first. While the brew kicks

320
00:10:43,620 --> 00:10:45,939
in, the mestres read out regulations

321
00:10:45,940 --> 00:10:46,940
and teachings.

322
00:10:47,860 --> 00:10:49,779
Querido fique nessa nossa

323
00:10:49,780 --> 00:10:51,938
caminhada, cantando

324
00:10:51,939 --> 00:10:54,709
indo uma palavra de amor.

325
00:10:54,710 --> 00:10:56,629
Sinto no peito a mão

326
00:10:56,630 --> 00:10:58,629
dessa bandeira, que

327
00:10:58,630 --> 00:11:00,549
é a luz, a paz e

328
00:11:00,550 --> 00:11:02,389
o amor, sinto

329
00:11:02,390 --> 00:11:05,349
no peito amor dessa bandeira,

330
00:11:05,350 --> 00:11:07,429
que é a luz, a paz

331
00:11:07,430 --> 00:11:08,430
e o amor.

332
00:11:09,330 --> 00:11:11,809
Then they listen to music or chance.

333
00:11:11,810 --> 00:11:14,129
This is one of the UDV's anthems.

334
00:11:14,130 --> 00:11:15,889
The chorus highlights the group's

335
00:11:15,890 --> 00:11:17,889
motto Light, Peace and

336
00:11:17,890 --> 00:11:19,969
Love. Officially, the UDV

337
00:11:19,970 --> 00:11:21,889
defines itself as nonpartisan and

338
00:11:21,890 --> 00:11:23,729
apolitical, which is in line

339
00:11:23,730 --> 00:11:25,169
with Brazil's laws.

340
00:11:25,170 --> 00:11:27,329
Like the United States, Brazil's

341
00:11:27,330 --> 00:11:29,249
constitution protects the freedom of

342
00:11:29,250 --> 00:11:30,289
religion.

343
00:11:30,290 --> 00:11:32,209
But in Brazilian law, electoral

344
00:11:32,210 --> 00:11:34,049
propaganda is forbidden inside

345
00:11:34,050 --> 00:11:35,889
temples and churches.

346
00:11:35,890 --> 00:11:37,809
So in the Bolsonaro era,

347
00:11:37,810 --> 00:11:40,049
when things got politicized in a new

348
00:11:40,050 --> 00:11:42,049
way, it wasn't simply shocking

349
00:11:42,050 --> 00:11:43,969
for UDV members, there were

350
00:11:43,970 --> 00:11:46,379
questions of legality too.

351
00:11:46,380 --> 00:11:48,219
Meus filhos e irmãos na

352
00:11:48,220 --> 00:11:50,179
União do Vegetal.

353
00:11:50,180 --> 00:11:51,299
During the twenty eighteen

354
00:11:51,300 --> 00:11:53,379
presidential elections, UDV members

355
00:11:53,380 --> 00:11:55,139
passed around a voice message from

356
00:11:55,140 --> 00:11:56,899
one of the UDV's most senior

357
00:11:56,900 --> 00:11:58,818
figures, Raimondo Monteiro de

358
00:11:58,819 --> 00:11:59,479
Souza.

359
00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:01,559
O único candidato capaz

360
00:12:01,560 --> 00:12:04,439
de afastar a desorte

361
00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:06,439
atualmente presente no

362
00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:08,929
Brasil é o Bolsonaro.

363
00:12:08,930 --> 00:12:10,129
It was a pitch to vote for

364
00:12:10,130 --> 00:12:11,969
Bolsonaro, the only

365
00:12:11,970 --> 00:12:13,729
person who could fix what he saw as

366
00:12:13,730 --> 00:12:15,729
the country's problems problems

367
00:12:15,730 --> 00:12:17,569
like gay parades, abortion

368
00:12:17,570 --> 00:12:19,489
and gender ideology.

369
00:12:19,490 --> 00:12:21,329
He added that these were his views

370
00:12:21,330 --> 00:12:23,459
and the views of the UDV.

371
00:12:23,460 --> 00:12:24,899
Dois pensamentos aqui que é mais

372
00:12:24,900 --> 00:12:26,899
meu, quando eu falo eu, mas todos

373
00:12:26,900 --> 00:12:28,019
são os pensamentos da União do

374
00:12:28,020 --> 00:12:29,020
Vegetal.

375
00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:31,239
According to Carlos, the journalist,

376
00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:32,838
the message was significant because

377
00:12:32,839 --> 00:12:34,679
of Montero's influence in the U

378
00:12:34,680 --> 00:12:35,680
D V.

379
00:12:36,150 --> 00:12:38,068
Que ele é uma espécie assim de.

380
00:12:38,069 --> 00:12:39,909
É como se fosse, comparando com a

381
00:12:39,910 --> 00:12:41,828
Igreja Católica, dos apóstolos

382
00:12:41,829 --> 00:12:42,759
de Jesus.

383
00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:44,519
In an analogy with the Catholic

384
00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:46,438
Church, he's like one of Jesus'

385
00:12:46,439 --> 00:12:47,478
apostles.

386
00:12:47,479 --> 00:12:49,879
He was very close to Master Gabriel,

387
00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:51,639
the founder of the religion, and to

388
00:12:51,640 --> 00:12:53,399
this day holds a very strong

389
00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:54,400
influence.

390
00:12:55,150 --> 00:12:56,829
Bolsonaro won the election later

391
00:12:56,830 --> 00:12:57,830
that year.

392
00:13:04,210 --> 00:13:05,649
Hundreds of people have gathered

393
00:13:05,650 --> 00:13:07,889
outside Jair Bolsonaro's apartment.

394
00:13:07,890 --> 00:13:09,969
They're chanting the national anthem

395
00:13:09,970 --> 00:13:10,970
and celebrating.

396
00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:14,598
Into longer do governo Bolsonaro,

397
00:13:14,599 --> 00:13:17,078
as coisas foram piorando na UDV

398
00:13:17,079 --> 00:13:18,999
e eu fui procurado

399
00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:20,459
por dirigentes.

400
00:13:20,460 --> 00:13:22,299
During the Bolsonaro administration,

401
00:13:22,300 --> 00:13:24,219
things started getting worse in the

402
00:13:24,220 --> 00:13:26,539
UDV, and some leaders

403
00:13:26,540 --> 00:13:28,219
who were against the growing pro

404
00:13:28,220 --> 00:13:30,219
Bolsonaro support reached out

405
00:13:30,220 --> 00:13:32,139
to me. They decided to

406
00:13:32,140 --> 00:13:34,059
write a letter that they wanted

407
00:13:34,060 --> 00:13:35,599
to make public.

408
00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:37,999
The group called itself Paz com Voz,

409
00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:39,439
Peace with Voice.

410
00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:41,199
The letter raised concern over

411
00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:43,199
support in the UDV's upper ranks

412
00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:45,279
for quote political positions

413
00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:47,039
contrary to the teachings of the

414
00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:47,919
master.

415
00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:49,759
It called for an end to political

416
00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:51,679
partisanship and for a return

417
00:13:51,680 --> 00:13:53,119
to neutrality.

418
00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:55,279
The letter didn't mention Bolsonaro

419
00:13:55,280 --> 00:13:57,039
by name, but listed some of his

420
00:13:57,040 --> 00:13:59,039
hallmark ideas that were embraced

421
00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:00,959
by UDV leaders, including

422
00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:02,879
the rollback of environmental

423
00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:05,359
protections, even when ayahuasca

424
00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:07,279
is made from two plants native to

425
00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:09,359
the Amazon rainforest.

426
00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:10,959
The group handed the letter to the

427
00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:13,279
UDV's Master General Representative,

428
00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:15,119
its highest authority, but they

429
00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:16,799
never got an answer.

430
00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:21,519
One of the members who wrote the

431
00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:22,879
letter told me that he was

432
00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:24,879
downgraded in the UDV's ranks

433
00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:26,159
as punishment.

434
00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:27,999
He told me the UDV's rules

435
00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:29,759
forbid discussing politics in

436
00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:31,759
sessions, but there are double

437
00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:33,599
standards and some people get

438
00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:34,799
away with it.

439
00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:36,639
He was so upset, he

440
00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:38,559
decided to sue the UDV

441
00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:40,399
for damage.

442
00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:42,239
The UDV defines itself

443
00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:44,079
as nonpartisan, but

444
00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:46,239
Carlos sees evidence to the contrary

445
00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:48,239
in Brasília, Brazil's capital,

446
00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:50,159
where the UDV's most influential

447
00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:51,669
leaders are.

448
00:14:51,670 --> 00:14:53,828
Esse esse bolsonarismo

449
00:14:53,829 --> 00:14:55,669
está cada vez mais explícito,

450
00:14:55,670 --> 00:14:56,669
aberto e público.

451
00:14:56,670 --> 00:14:58,269
Pro Bolsonaro support is

452
00:14:58,270 --> 00:15:00,188
increasingly explicit, open

453
00:15:00,189 --> 00:15:01,228
and public.

454
00:15:01,229 --> 00:15:02,989
And this alignment with the far

455
00:15:02,990 --> 00:15:05,068
right agenda involves going against

456
00:15:05,069 --> 00:15:07,309
sexual diversity, environmental

457
00:15:07,310 --> 00:15:09,309
protection policies, and defense gun

458
00:15:09,310 --> 00:15:10,310
ownership.

459
00:15:10,770 --> 00:15:12,529
One of the most prominent Mestres

460
00:15:12,530 --> 00:15:14,289
supporting Bolsonaro at the time was

461
00:15:14,290 --> 00:15:16,318
Luis Felipe Belmonte.

462
00:15:16,319 --> 00:15:18,399
Advogado, bem-sucedido, dono

463
00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:20,559
de construtora, fazenda,

464
00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:22,869
tenho clube de futebol,

465
00:15:22,870 --> 00:15:24,948
He's a successful lawyer, owner

466
00:15:24,949 --> 00:15:27,109
of a construction company, a ranch,

467
00:15:27,110 --> 00:15:28,708
he owns a soccer club.

468
00:15:28,709 --> 00:15:30,629
He was to be the vice president of

469
00:15:30,630 --> 00:15:32,468
the party former president Jair

470
00:15:32,469 --> 00:15:33,990
Bolsonaro was trying to create.

471
00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:37,199
Belmonte helped to lead an effort

472
00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:38,879
to start a political party for

473
00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:40,719
Bolsonaro, Aliança pelo

474
00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:43,279
Brasil or Alliance for Brazil.

475
00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:45,119
But the effort failed to get the

476
00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:47,119
signatures that are required by law

477
00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:48,320
to start a new party.

478
00:15:56,370 --> 00:15:58,369
Fast forward to 2022,

479
00:15:58,370 --> 00:16:00,369
Bolsonaro, hailed by his supporters

480
00:16:00,370 --> 00:16:02,289
as a mythical, legendary type

481
00:16:02,290 --> 00:16:04,609
figure, ran for re-election.

482
00:16:04,610 --> 00:16:06,529
But he lost to Luís Inacio

483
00:16:06,530 --> 00:16:08,369
Lula da Silva, a leftist

484
00:16:08,370 --> 00:16:09,969
co-founder of Brazil's Workers'

485
00:16:09,970 --> 00:16:10,429
Party.

486
00:16:10,430 --> 00:16:12,988
Quero começar agradecendo

487
00:16:12,989 --> 00:16:15,948
os 58 milhões de brasileiros

488
00:16:15,949 --> 00:16:17,329
que votaram em mim.

489
00:16:17,330 --> 00:16:19,169
Bolsonaro had repeatedly cast

490
00:16:19,170 --> 00:16:21,569
doubt on Brazil's electoral process,

491
00:16:21,570 --> 00:16:23,489
and after he lost the election,

492
00:16:23,490 --> 00:16:25,649
his party and his supporters claimed

493
00:16:25,650 --> 00:16:27,889
the system was rigged against him.

494
00:16:27,890 --> 00:16:29,569
It was unclear whether he would

495
00:16:29,570 --> 00:16:30,609
accept defeat.

496
00:16:38,530 --> 00:16:40,449
In the weeks after Bolsonaro's

497
00:16:40,450 --> 00:16:42,129
defeat, his supporters mobilized

498
00:16:42,130 --> 00:16:44,049
across Brazil to protest the

499
00:16:44,050 --> 00:16:44,929
results.

500
00:16:44,930 --> 00:16:47,089
Many set up camp outside military

501
00:16:47,090 --> 00:16:49,249
headquarters in several cities,

502
00:16:49,250 --> 00:16:51,569
chanting things like Armed Forces,

503
00:16:51,570 --> 00:16:53,009
save Brazil.

504
00:16:53,010 --> 00:16:54,609
They were calling for a military

505
00:16:54,610 --> 00:16:56,209
takeover ahead of Lula's

506
00:16:56,210 --> 00:16:57,889
inauguration.

507
00:16:57,890 --> 00:16:59,889
One former UDV member told

508
00:16:59,890 --> 00:17:01,409
me that in the lead up to the

509
00:17:01,410 --> 00:17:03,249
inauguration, people inside

510
00:17:03,250 --> 00:17:05,089
the UDV were encouraging members

511
00:17:05,090 --> 00:17:06,849
to go to the military headquarters

512
00:17:06,850 --> 00:17:08,769
to protest the election and

513
00:17:08,770 --> 00:17:11,010
push for military intervention.

514
00:17:12,450 --> 00:17:14,449
Photos circulated online of

515
00:17:14,450 --> 00:17:16,929
Mestre Monteiro, the 91-year-old

516
00:17:16,930 --> 00:17:18,769
UDV leader, smiling at

517
00:17:18,770 --> 00:17:21,089
the camera in these demonstrations.

518
00:17:21,090 --> 00:17:23,009
In one, he's standing outside the

519
00:17:23,010 --> 00:17:24,929
army barracks in Campo Grande,

520
00:17:24,930 --> 00:17:27,089
next to other members of the UDV,

521
00:17:27,090 --> 00:17:29,169
many of them draped in the Brazilian

522
00:17:29,170 --> 00:17:30,170
flag.

523
00:17:32,530 --> 00:17:34,369
In another picture, he's seen

524
00:17:34,370 --> 00:17:36,129
pointing at a banner calling for a

525
00:17:36,130 --> 00:17:38,449
quote, federal intervention,

526
00:17:38,450 --> 00:17:40,449
which was a euphemism for a

527
00:17:40,450 --> 00:17:41,409
coup.

528
00:17:41,410 --> 00:17:43,569
Screen grabs of these photos flooded

529
00:17:43,570 --> 00:17:46,289
WhatsApp groups of UDV members.

530
00:17:46,290 --> 00:17:47,969
Some agreed.

531
00:17:47,970 --> 00:17:49,809
Others were horrified.

532
00:17:49,810 --> 00:17:51,969
Around the same time, a letter

533
00:17:51,970 --> 00:17:54,049
Monteiro wrote and signed by

534
00:17:54,050 --> 00:17:55,889
hand also went viral in

535
00:17:55,890 --> 00:17:56,769
these groups.

536
00:17:56,770 --> 00:17:58,609
He addressed Brazil's armed

537
00:17:58,610 --> 00:18:00,449
forces, calling for military

538
00:18:00,450 --> 00:18:02,689
action to stop communism,

539
00:18:02,690 --> 00:18:05,569
openly inciting a coup.

540
00:18:05,570 --> 00:18:07,409
Here's Carlos, the journalist

541
00:18:07,410 --> 00:18:08,410
again.

542
00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:10,799
Polarização chegou

543
00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:13,359
a níveis extremos, né?

544
00:18:13,360 --> 00:18:15,669
As coisas também lá na União.

545
00:18:15,670 --> 00:18:17,749
Polarization reached extreme levels,

546
00:18:17,750 --> 00:18:19,749
and the crisis inside the UDV

547
00:18:19,750 --> 00:18:21,509
just kept escalating to the point

548
00:18:21,510 --> 00:18:23,589
that they summoned members to take

549
00:18:23,590 --> 00:18:25,429
part in protests and eventually

550
00:18:25,430 --> 00:18:27,509
even in the attempted coup itself,

551
00:18:27,510 --> 00:18:29,109
the attack on the three branches of

552
00:18:29,110 --> 00:18:30,789
power on January eighth, twenty

553
00:18:30,790 --> 00:18:31,459
twenty three.

554
00:18:31,460 --> 00:18:32,819
Janeiro de dois mil vinte e três,

555
00:18:32,820 --> 00:18:33,820
né?

556
00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:41,719
In the capital, Brasília, thousands

557
00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:43,799
of Bolsonaro supporters stormed

558
00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:45,639
into Congress, the Supreme Court,

559
00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:47,559
and the Presidential Palace just

560
00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:50,039
days after Lula's inauguration.

561
00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:52,599
The January eighth riots in Brasilia

562
00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:54,519
mirrored the January sixth attack

563
00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:56,359
two years earlier when Trump

564
00:18:56,360 --> 00:18:58,839
supporters invaded the US Capitol.

565
00:18:59,880 --> 00:19:01,719
As UDV members watched

566
00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:03,639
the events of the day, they weren't

567
00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:05,559
sure who in their ranks had joined

568
00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:07,669
the uprising in Brasilia.

569
00:19:07,670 --> 00:19:09,269
Fala pessoal, estamos aqui ao vivo

570
00:19:09,270 --> 00:19:10,149
de Brasília.

571
00:19:10,150 --> 00:19:13,429
Hoje, dia 8 de janeiro de 2023,

572
00:19:13,430 --> 00:19:15,509
os patriotas já tomaram conta

573
00:19:15,510 --> 00:19:17,349
aqui do Palácio do Planalto

574
00:19:17,350 --> 00:19:19,259
e do Congresso Nacional.

575
00:19:19,260 --> 00:19:21,739
Then one of the UDV's mestres,

576
00:19:21,740 --> 00:19:23,579
Francisco Joffily, shared a video of

577
00:19:23,580 --> 00:19:25,339
himself during the riots, walking

578
00:19:25,340 --> 00:19:27,179
down the Esplanade of Ministries

579
00:19:27,180 --> 00:19:29,179
wearing a Brazil jersey like the

580
00:19:29,180 --> 00:19:30,699
other rioters.

581
00:19:30,700 --> 00:19:32,619
The Patriots have already taken

582
00:19:32,620 --> 00:19:34,378
over the presidential palace and

583
00:19:34,379 --> 00:19:35,979
Congress, he says.

584
00:19:35,980 --> 00:19:38,699
This is a historic day for Brazil.

585
00:19:38,700 --> 00:19:40,539
He was streaming it live on social

586
00:19:40,540 --> 00:19:41,138
media.

587
00:19:41,139 --> 00:19:43,779
Brasília, 8 de janeiro.

588
00:19:43,780 --> 00:19:46,019
Vândalos furam o frágil bloqueio

589
00:19:46,020 --> 00:19:47,939
que deveria proteger a espanada dos

590
00:19:47,940 --> 00:19:50,099
ministérios e partem para a invasão

591
00:19:50,100 --> 00:19:51,100
do Congresso Nacional.

592
00:19:52,230 --> 00:19:53,989
It was historic.

593
00:19:53,990 --> 00:19:56,549
And on September 11th, 2025,

594
00:19:56,550 --> 00:19:58,709
Brazil Supreme Court convicted Jair

595
00:19:58,710 --> 00:20:00,549
Bolsonaro of plotting a coup

596
00:20:00,550 --> 00:20:02,469
to remain in power after losing

597
00:20:02,470 --> 00:20:04,869
the 2022 election.

598
00:20:04,870 --> 00:20:06,869
A strategy that included a plan

599
00:20:06,870 --> 00:20:09,749
to assassinate now President Lula.

600
00:20:09,750 --> 00:20:11,669
Bolsonaro was sentenced to more than

601
00:20:11,670 --> 00:20:14,628
27 years in prison.

602
00:20:14,629 --> 00:20:16,628
But the January 8 attacks

603
00:20:16,629 --> 00:20:18,869
two years earlier sent shockwaves

604
00:20:18,870 --> 00:20:20,709
across Brazil, all the more

605
00:20:20,710 --> 00:20:23,519
so for those who saw familiar faces.

606
00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:25,119
As pessoas estimulando ir para

607
00:20:25,120 --> 00:20:26,560
frente de quartéis,

608
00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:29,599
estimulando essa ideia

609
00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:30,600
de.

610
00:20:31,500 --> 00:20:33,419
Including Alexandre Rodrigues,

611
00:20:33,420 --> 00:20:35,099
a lawyer who used to be a member of

612
00:20:35,100 --> 00:20:36,779
the UDV.

613
00:20:36,780 --> 00:20:38,619
When he saw Mestre Joffily in the

614
00:20:38,620 --> 00:20:40,619
riots, he was outraged

615
00:20:40,620 --> 00:20:43,259
and decided to take legal action.

616
00:20:43,260 --> 00:20:45,339
Two days later, he filed a civil

617
00:20:45,340 --> 00:20:47,659
lawsuit in Brazil's Supreme Court

618
00:20:47,660 --> 00:20:49,819
to investigate whether the UDV

619
00:20:49,820 --> 00:20:52,059
was using ayahuasca for political

620
00:20:52,060 --> 00:20:53,889
indoctrination.

621
00:20:53,890 --> 00:20:55,889
Se o chá era utilizado para lavar

622
00:20:55,890 --> 00:20:58,289
cerebral ou algum tipo de

623
00:20:58,290 --> 00:21:00,049
estímulo a movimento de

624
00:21:00,050 --> 00:21:00,979
extrema-direita,

625
00:21:00,980 --> 00:21:02,419
He says he asked the court to

626
00:21:02,420 --> 00:21:04,099
investigate if the brew was being

627
00:21:04,100 --> 00:21:05,939
used for brainwashing to fuel

628
00:21:05,940 --> 00:21:07,859
a far right movement

629
00:21:07,860 --> 00:21:09,859
and to investigate the UDV leaders

630
00:21:09,860 --> 00:21:11,539
who incited members to take part in

631
00:21:11,540 --> 00:21:12,900
the coup attempt.

632
00:21:14,180 --> 00:21:14,979
Alexandre also called for the

633
00:21:14,980 --> 00:21:16,899
Supreme Court to temporarily suspend

634
00:21:16,900 --> 00:21:19,379
the UDV's right to use ayahuasca

635
00:21:19,380 --> 00:21:21,819
until these matters were clarified.

636
00:21:21,820 --> 00:21:23,739
Então, a forma que eu utilizo

637
00:21:23,740 --> 00:21:25,658
foi o que justificou eu ficar

638
00:21:25,659 --> 00:21:27,499
incomodado com esse

639
00:21:27,500 --> 00:21:29,418
tipo de situação, de ver em

640
00:21:29,419 --> 00:21:30,189
pessoas.

641
00:21:30,190 --> 00:21:31,869
As someone who takes ayahuasca

642
00:21:31,870 --> 00:21:33,149
regularly and believes in its

643
00:21:33,150 --> 00:21:34,989
benefits, Alexandre says he

644
00:21:34,990 --> 00:21:36,349
doesn't want to see it used in the

645
00:21:36,350 --> 00:21:38,429
wrong way, but the Supreme Court

646
00:21:38,430 --> 00:21:40,029
transferred the case to a lower

647
00:21:40,030 --> 00:21:42,189
court, which ultimately dismissed

648
00:21:42,190 --> 00:21:44,189
it. Alexandre decided

649
00:21:44,190 --> 00:21:46,109
not to appeal the decision.

650
00:21:46,110 --> 00:21:48,029
He feared the lawsuit could end up

651
00:21:48,030 --> 00:21:50,029
posing a risk for other religions

652
00:21:50,030 --> 00:21:51,979
that drink the brew in Brazil.

653
00:21:51,980 --> 00:21:54,859
Eu, como usuário da ayahuasca,

654
00:21:54,860 --> 00:21:56,939
me veio uma preocupação

655
00:21:56,940 --> 00:21:58,939
que eu poderia criar

656
00:21:58,940 --> 00:21:59,940
problema para as outras.

657
00:22:00,770 --> 00:22:02,929
Lawsuits against the UDV kept

658
00:22:02,930 --> 00:22:03,930
coming.

659
00:22:04,370 --> 00:22:05,409
Sanderson Moura, a prominent

660
00:22:05,410 --> 00:22:07,329
criminal lawyer in the state of Acre

661
00:22:07,330 --> 00:22:09,169
in the Amazon region, claimed

662
00:22:09,170 --> 00:22:11,009
he was removed from the UDV's board

663
00:22:11,010 --> 00:22:12,929
of masters after posting a picture

664
00:22:12,930 --> 00:22:14,769
on the beach in January, reading a

665
00:22:14,770 --> 00:22:16,689
book by Osho, the Indian

666
00:22:16,690 --> 00:22:19,089
philosopher and spiritual leader.

667
00:22:19,090 --> 00:22:20,689
On his social media accounts,

668
00:22:20,690 --> 00:22:22,369
Sanderson wrote that he had been

669
00:22:22,370 --> 00:22:24,449
removed for being a leftist

670
00:22:24,450 --> 00:22:26,289
and said, quote, We're living

671
00:22:26,290 --> 00:22:28,209
through a dark, regressive period

672
00:22:28,210 --> 00:22:30,609
marked by Trumpists, Bolsonaroists,

673
00:22:30,610 --> 00:22:33,169
fascist, racist, misogynistic,

674
00:22:33,170 --> 00:22:35,329
and homophobic persecution within

675
00:22:35,330 --> 00:22:36,689
the UDV.

676
00:22:36,690 --> 00:22:38,929
Sanderson filed a lawsuit to annul

677
00:22:38,930 --> 00:22:41,089
his expulsion, and the court forced

678
00:22:41,090 --> 00:22:43,089
the UDV to reinstate him as

679
00:22:43,090 --> 00:22:44,289
maestre.

680
00:22:44,290 --> 00:22:46,209
The UDV is appealing that

681
00:22:46,210 --> 00:22:47,210
decision.

682
00:22:51,570 --> 00:22:53,089
He declined my request for an
interview. People like Sanderson

683
00:22:53,090 --> 00:22:55,569
are fighting to stay on in the UDV.

684
00:22:55,570 --> 00:22:57,329
The church community plays a

685
00:22:57,330 --> 00:22:59,409
significant role in many followers'

686
00:22:59,410 --> 00:23:00,209
lives.

687
00:23:00,210 --> 00:23:02,049
But as things got worse, more

688
00:23:02,050 --> 00:23:03,489
and more followers lost their

689
00:23:03,490 --> 00:23:04,490
stamina.

690
00:23:08,290 --> 00:23:09,889
Ambiente de briga pelas redes

691
00:23:09,890 --> 00:23:10,890
sociais.

692
00:23:11,390 --> 00:23:13,229
You heard from Ana Duarte at

693
00:23:13,230 --> 00:23:15,069
the start of this episode.

694
00:23:15,070 --> 00:23:17,149
She had been in the UDV for nearly

695
00:23:17,150 --> 00:23:19,069
two decades when the messages from

696
00:23:19,070 --> 00:23:21,069
the Mestres started to clash

697
00:23:21,070 --> 00:23:22,589
with her progressive politics.

698
00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:25,599
Depois o Bolsonaro foi

699
00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:27,519
eleito, os que votaram nele

700
00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:29,159
ficaram muito arrogantes.

701
00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:31,239
After Bolsonaro was elected, those

702
00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:33,159
who voted for him became very

703
00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:34,439
arrogant.

704
00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:36,279
We couldn't even mention Lula's name

705
00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:38,359
inside the UDV because it became

706
00:23:38,360 --> 00:23:40,119
officially extreme right.

707
00:23:40,120 --> 00:23:42,279
Officially Bolsonaro.

708
00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:44,119
I felt like people had been mentally

709
00:23:44,120 --> 00:23:45,120
hijacked.

710
00:23:46,810 --> 00:23:48,329
First, Ana didn't want to lose her

711
00:23:48,330 --> 00:23:49,609
church community.

712
00:23:49,610 --> 00:23:51,689
She was almost 70 by then.

713
00:23:51,690 --> 00:23:53,369
She didn't want to restart her

714
00:23:53,370 --> 00:23:55,209
social life all over again.

715
00:23:55,210 --> 00:23:57,129
So Ana stayed.

716
00:23:57,130 --> 00:23:58,969
I should note here that Ana is

717
00:23:58,970 --> 00:24:00,169
not her real name.

718
00:24:00,170 --> 00:24:02,009
She asked us to use a pseudonym

719
00:24:02,010 --> 00:24:03,529
for this story for fear of

720
00:24:03,530 --> 00:24:05,289
retribution for speaking critically

721
00:24:05,290 --> 00:24:06,809
of the UDV.

722
00:24:06,810 --> 00:24:08,649
And then, when Bolsonaro

723
00:24:08,650 --> 00:24:10,649
ran for re-election, things got

724
00:24:10,650 --> 00:24:11,989
worse for her.

725
00:24:11,990 --> 00:24:14,229
Bolsonaro perdeu a eleição.

726
00:24:14,230 --> 00:24:16,229
Menina foi chororô.

727
00:24:16,230 --> 00:24:18,549
E aquela lamentação parecia

728
00:24:18,550 --> 00:24:19,550
que tinha acontecido.

729
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:23,479
When Bolsonaro lost,

730
00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:24,999
people were devastated.

731
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:27,479
It felt like someone had died.

732
00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:29,479
In the first session after his

733
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:31,399
defeat, all the sermons

734
00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:33,159
were for those on the far right,

735
00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:34,759
supporting masters on the side of

736
00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:36,439
Bolsonaro.

737
00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:38,039
It was enough.

738
00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:39,560
I decided not to come back.

739
00:24:40,630 --> 00:24:42,149
Even though Lula had won the

740
00:24:42,150 --> 00:24:44,069
election, Ana felt nothing had

741
00:24:44,070 --> 00:24:45,749
changed at the UDV.

742
00:24:45,750 --> 00:24:47,669
So in early 2023,

743
00:24:47,670 --> 00:24:48,670
she decided to leave.

744
00:24:49,770 --> 00:24:51,289
É como se ela tivesse sido

745
00:24:51,290 --> 00:24:53,289
contaminada por uma doença

746
00:24:53,290 --> 00:24:54,409
grave mortal.

747
00:24:54,410 --> 00:24:56,569
It's like the UDV has been infected

748
00:24:56,570 --> 00:24:59,129
with a serious deadly disease.

749
00:24:59,130 --> 00:25:00,809
There's no way you can survive like

750
00:25:00,810 --> 00:25:01,810
this.

751
00:25:02,170 --> 00:25:04,009
For me, it lost its

752
00:25:04,010 --> 00:25:05,929
magic. I can no longer see it

753
00:25:05,930 --> 00:25:08,089
as something good, pure,

754
00:25:08,090 --> 00:25:09,090
or righteous.

755
00:25:09,990 --> 00:25:12,229
So, Ana wrote a poem.

756
00:25:12,230 --> 00:25:14,149
It's called Arautus Dado,

757
00:25:14,150 --> 00:25:15,669
Heralds of Pain.

758
00:25:15,670 --> 00:25:17,029
I asked her to read it to me.

759
00:25:18,180 --> 00:25:19,299
Sombra.

760
00:25:19,300 --> 00:25:20,300
A sombra. When fogo no eluis.

761
00:25:23,250 --> 00:25:25,329
The shadow haunts

762
00:25:25,330 --> 00:25:27,969
when fire is not light.

763
00:25:27,970 --> 00:25:29,089
To what?

764
00:25:29,090 --> 00:25:31,249
To whom the scales

765
00:25:31,250 --> 00:25:32,250
lead.

766
00:25:33,490 --> 00:25:35,809
Heralds of pain preaching

767
00:25:35,810 --> 00:25:36,810
love.

768
00:25:37,330 --> 00:25:39,569
Is truth or vanity

769
00:25:39,570 --> 00:25:41,410
the antonym of the flower?

770
00:25:50,780 --> 00:25:52,699
The UDV in Brazil declined my

771
00:25:52,700 --> 00:25:54,299
request for an interview.

772
00:25:54,300 --> 00:25:55,979
They stated that the leaders of the

773
00:25:55,980 --> 00:25:57,819
spiritual center have chosen not

774
00:25:57,820 --> 00:25:59,579
to speak to the media regarding the

775
00:25:59,580 --> 00:26:01,420
topics of this episode.

776
00:26:02,860 --> 00:26:04,779
In previous reports about the

777
00:26:04,780 --> 00:26:06,699
internal crises sparked by support

778
00:26:06,700 --> 00:26:08,779
for Bolsonaro, the UDV

779
00:26:08,780 --> 00:26:10,779
said it was nonpartisan, did

780
00:26:10,780 --> 00:26:12,699
not profess political ideologies,

781
00:26:12,700 --> 00:26:14,059
and had no preference for

782
00:26:14,060 --> 00:26:15,579
presidential candidates.

783
00:26:28,379 --> 00:26:28,875
In 2023, the UDV told Brazilian
newspaper Folha de São Paulo that,
quote,

784
00:26:28,876 --> 00:26:28,886
"the political preferences expressed
by some of its membrs did not

785
00:26:28,887 --> 00:26:28,897
represent the UDV as an institution -
they were strictly personal

786
00:26:28,898 --> 00:26:30,059
opinions." They were strictly
personal

787
00:26:30,060 --> 00:26:31,060
opinions.

788
00:26:34,540 --> 00:26:36,059
We'll be right back.

789
00:26:41,820 --> 00:26:43,979
While people like Ana were shocked

790
00:26:43,980 --> 00:26:46,059
to see members of the UDV promoting

791
00:26:46,060 --> 00:26:48,378
right wing ideologies, others

792
00:26:48,379 --> 00:26:49,979
weren't surprised.

793
00:26:49,980 --> 00:26:51,819
Queer members of the UDV

794
00:26:51,820 --> 00:26:54,359
say they saw this coming for years.

795
00:26:54,360 --> 00:26:56,279
Então, Deus fez Adão e

796
00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:58,599
Eva, não foi Adão e Ivo.

797
00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:00,599
Isso é claramente falado.

798
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:02,678
Foi Adão e Eva, não foi Adão

799
00:27:02,679 --> 00:27:03,229
e Ivo.

800
00:27:03,230 --> 00:27:05,148
God made Adam and Eve and

801
00:27:05,149 --> 00:27:06,908
not Adam and Evo.

802
00:27:06,909 --> 00:27:08,749
They say this clearly and

803
00:27:08,750 --> 00:27:10,668
in every session a statute read at

804
00:27:10,669 --> 00:27:12,668
the beginning defines that marriages

805
00:27:12,669 --> 00:27:14,668
within the U D V are between a

806
00:27:14,669 --> 00:27:16,509
man and a woman, with the aim

807
00:27:16,510 --> 00:27:17,950
of establishing a family.

808
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:21,719
Sixty one year old Armando Grizi

809
00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:23,479
had no doubts about his sexuality

810
00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:25,479
when he first went to the UDV.

811
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:27,319
It was nearly thirty years ago in

812
00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:28,999
the city of Salvador.

813
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:30,919
He was openly gay and had a

814
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:32,039
male partner.

815
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:33,799
He had come across an article about

816
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:35,879
ayahuasca in a magazine.

817
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:37,719
It spoke of transcendence,

818
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:38,920
of revealing another world.

819
00:27:40,210 --> 00:27:41,889
Então, naquele momento, eu falei, eu

820
00:27:41,890 --> 00:27:42,849
quero isso aqui.

821
00:27:42,850 --> 00:27:44,529
Só que eu não sabia como funcionava

822
00:27:44,530 --> 00:27:46,369
a estrutura da união do vegetal, a

823
00:27:46,370 --> 00:27:47,819
homofobia que existe lá.

824
00:27:47,820 --> 00:27:49,659
At that moment I said

825
00:27:49,660 --> 00:27:51,099
I want this.

826
00:27:51,100 --> 00:27:51,979
But I didn't know there was

827
00:27:51,980 --> 00:27:53,819
homophobia in the U D V.

828
00:27:53,820 --> 00:27:55,419
I didn't know there was a military

829
00:27:55,420 --> 00:27:56,699
discipline.

830
00:27:56,700 --> 00:27:58,619
And when I drank ayahuasca for the

831
00:27:58,620 --> 00:28:01,739
first time it was magic.

832
00:28:01,740 --> 00:28:03,739
I had a beautiful experience.

833
00:28:03,740 --> 00:28:05,579
It was painful too,

834
00:28:05,580 --> 00:28:06,779
because there are the physical

835
00:28:06,780 --> 00:28:08,619
reactions to the tea, the vomiting,

836
00:28:08,620 --> 00:28:09,979
the discomfort.

837
00:28:09,980 --> 00:28:11,979
But I felt I had reconnected

838
00:28:11,980 --> 00:28:12,938
spiritually.

839
00:28:12,939 --> 00:28:15,309
Encontrado com a espiritualidade.

840
00:28:15,310 --> 00:28:16,908
Armando had been in the Brazilian

841
00:28:16,909 --> 00:28:19,469
military as a sergeant in the Amazon

842
00:28:19,470 --> 00:28:21,628
and was impressed with the UDV.

843
00:28:21,629 --> 00:28:23,469
Brazil has other ayahuasca

844
00:28:23,470 --> 00:28:25,388
religions like Santo Daimi,

845
00:28:25,389 --> 00:28:27,229
but the UDV is known as the most

846
00:28:27,230 --> 00:28:28,668
well organized.

847
00:28:28,669 --> 00:28:30,589
It's structured into departments

848
00:28:30,590 --> 00:28:32,749
with well defined rules and members

849
00:28:32,750 --> 00:28:34,349
engaged in volunteer work and

850
00:28:34,350 --> 00:28:35,469
charity.

851
00:28:35,470 --> 00:28:37,949
É muito organizado, tudo funciona

852
00:28:37,950 --> 00:28:39,628
dentro da melhor qualidade, do

853
00:28:39,629 --> 00:28:40,668
tratamento, do cuidado.

854
00:28:40,669 --> 00:28:42,829
Everything works is well cared for,

855
00:28:42,830 --> 00:28:44,749
the quality, the guidance people

856
00:28:44,750 --> 00:28:45,948
are offered.

857
00:28:45,949 --> 00:28:47,869
This stood out to me because of my

858
00:28:47,870 --> 00:28:48,870
military background.

859
00:28:50,970 --> 00:28:51,970
Eu vim de militar.

860
00:28:53,550 --> 00:28:55,388
Gradually though, he began to

861
00:28:55,389 --> 00:28:57,388
experience discrimination.

862
00:28:57,389 --> 00:28:59,388
Things escalated when he decided

863
00:28:59,389 --> 00:29:01,309
to visit a different nucleo of the

864
00:29:01,310 --> 00:29:02,309
UDV.

865
00:29:02,310 --> 00:29:04,388
Todo mundo sabia que eu era gay

866
00:29:04,389 --> 00:29:06,388
e falaram para esse mestre,

867
00:29:06,389 --> 00:29:07,750
o mestre estava lá dirigindo.

868
00:29:08,790 --> 00:29:11,189
People knew that I was gay

869
00:29:11,190 --> 00:29:13,109
and told the mestre who was

870
00:29:13,110 --> 00:29:14,628
conducting the session.

871
00:29:14,629 --> 00:29:16,469
We all got in line to receive

872
00:29:16,470 --> 00:29:18,309
our glass of ayahuasca.

873
00:29:18,310 --> 00:29:20,309
When it was my turn, he told another

874
00:29:20,310 --> 00:29:22,309
mestre, bring me that stronger

875
00:29:22,310 --> 00:29:23,509
tea, the one that knocks out

876
00:29:23,510 --> 00:29:24,510
mestres.

877
00:29:25,350 --> 00:29:27,189
He gave me a full glass,

878
00:29:27,190 --> 00:29:29,029
more than double what he was giving

879
00:29:29,030 --> 00:29:29,989
others.

880
00:29:29,990 --> 00:29:31,589
And as I was under the effect of the

881
00:29:31,590 --> 00:29:33,749
brew, he started to hammer

882
00:29:33,750 --> 00:29:35,669
home that homosexualism

883
00:29:35,670 --> 00:29:36,469
was wrong.

884
00:29:36,470 --> 00:29:38,388
Homosexualism was of the

885
00:29:38,389 --> 00:29:39,669
negative force.

886
00:29:39,670 --> 00:29:41,189
He kept saying bad things about

887
00:29:41,190 --> 00:29:43,109
homosexuality, calling

888
00:29:43,110 --> 00:29:44,110
it an aberration.

889
00:29:45,860 --> 00:29:47,938
This happened to Armando twice

890
00:29:47,939 --> 00:29:49,779
with the same mestre at the same

891
00:29:49,780 --> 00:29:50,739
núcleo.

892
00:29:50,740 --> 00:29:52,819
He says the second time was even

893
00:29:52,820 --> 00:29:54,739
worse because the strong dose of

894
00:29:54,740 --> 00:29:57,138
ayahuasca made him very sick.

895
00:29:57,139 --> 00:29:58,979
When he was vomiting outside,

896
00:29:58,980 --> 00:30:00,739
the maestre had people carry him

897
00:30:00,740 --> 00:30:01,779
back inside.

898
00:30:01,780 --> 00:30:04,099
They sat him in the first row.

899
00:30:04,100 --> 00:30:06,019
Armando sank into his seat,

900
00:30:06,020 --> 00:30:08,178
feeling sick, and as drool

901
00:30:08,179 --> 00:30:10,178
came out of his mouth, the maestre

902
00:30:10,179 --> 00:30:12,178
started to preach that homosexuality

903
00:30:12,179 --> 00:30:14,260
was wrong, that God disapproved.

904
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:22,839
E porque é a lavagem cerebral, é

905
00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:24,439
lavagem cerebral, é uma lavagem

906
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:25,879
cerebral. Porque o chá tem uma

907
00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:27,049
fluência muito grande, Kiko.

908
00:30:27,050 --> 00:30:28,809
It's brainwashing.

909
00:30:28,810 --> 00:30:29,929
Brainwashing.

910
00:30:29,930 --> 00:30:32,009
Because the brew has a very strong

911
00:30:32,010 --> 00:30:33,529
influence. You become very

912
00:30:33,530 --> 00:30:35,369
sensitive. And what's being said

913
00:30:35,370 --> 00:30:36,969
builds pictures in your head.

914
00:30:36,970 --> 00:30:38,169
You have visions.

915
00:30:38,170 --> 00:30:39,369
So imagine hearing that

916
00:30:39,370 --> 00:30:40,969
homosexuality, or rather,

917
00:30:40,970 --> 00:30:42,889
homosexualism, which is how they

918
00:30:42,890 --> 00:30:44,889
say it, is a disease, something

919
00:30:44,890 --> 00:30:46,089
from the devil.

920
00:30:46,090 --> 00:30:47,209
It's terrifying.

921
00:30:47,210 --> 00:30:49,049
People panic and want to leave

922
00:30:49,050 --> 00:30:50,089
that path.

923
00:30:50,090 --> 00:30:52,329
I saw many people who in theory

924
00:30:52,330 --> 00:30:54,169
converted because of this

925
00:30:54,170 --> 00:30:56,089
who ended up getting married.

926
00:30:56,090 --> 00:30:57,369
And then the others would say

927
00:30:57,370 --> 00:30:58,469
they're cured.

928
00:30:58,470 --> 00:31:00,389
Conheço vários gays

929
00:31:00,390 --> 00:31:03,099
que casaram-se para poder provar.

930
00:31:03,100 --> 00:31:04,698
Armando said the master who held

931
00:31:04,699 --> 00:31:06,539
these sessions was Jair Gabriel

932
00:31:06,540 --> 00:31:08,458
da Costa, the son of Mestre

933
00:31:08,459 --> 00:31:09,339
Gabriel.

934
00:31:09,340 --> 00:31:11,178
Today, Jair Gabriel is

935
00:31:11,179 --> 00:31:13,658
the UDV's highest authority.

936
00:31:13,659 --> 00:31:15,499
Armando stayed in the UDV

937
00:31:15,500 --> 00:31:17,339
for more than a decade after those

938
00:31:17,340 --> 00:31:20,138
incidents, until 2018.

939
00:31:20,139 --> 00:31:21,898
He'd endured prejudice and

940
00:31:21,899 --> 00:31:23,739
homophobia before as part

941
00:31:23,740 --> 00:31:26,059
of the military and as a Jesuit

942
00:31:26,060 --> 00:31:27,099
missionary.

943
00:31:27,100 --> 00:31:29,019
In the UDV, he felt

944
00:31:29,020 --> 00:31:30,909
mostly welcomed.

945
00:31:30,910 --> 00:31:32,909
As amizades que você faz lá dentro,

946
00:31:32,910 --> 00:31:34,509
as pessoas que você conhece lá

947
00:31:34,510 --> 00:31:36,269
dentro, nem todo mundo é assim, nem

948
00:31:36,270 --> 00:31:37,270
todo.

949
00:31:37,820 --> 00:31:39,659
The friendships you make, the people

950
00:31:39,660 --> 00:31:41,739
you get to know, not everyone

951
00:31:41,740 --> 00:31:44,299
is like that, or things like that.

952
00:31:44,300 --> 00:31:46,699
Each nucleo follows the orientation

953
00:31:46,700 --> 00:31:49,179
of its mestre representative.

954
00:31:49,180 --> 00:31:50,379
Some chapters are a lot more

955
00:31:50,380 --> 00:31:52,459
welcoming and open.

956
00:31:52,460 --> 00:31:54,859
Others are very rigid,

957
00:31:54,860 --> 00:31:56,219
devotional, dogmatic.

958
00:31:57,340 --> 00:31:58,619
The one I went to had lots of

959
00:31:58,620 --> 00:32:00,699
artists and female counselors

960
00:32:00,700 --> 00:32:02,699
who advised mestres to be more

961
00:32:02,700 --> 00:32:03,700
flexible.

962
00:32:04,380 --> 00:32:06,379
And there is the beauty

963
00:32:06,380 --> 00:32:08,379
of the tea and

964
00:32:08,380 --> 00:32:10,299
teachings that are

965
00:32:10,300 --> 00:32:11,300
good for our lives.

966
00:32:12,050 --> 00:32:14,128
Armando was a dedicated community

967
00:32:14,129 --> 00:32:15,809
member, but he could never climb the

968
00:32:15,810 --> 00:32:17,489
UDV's ranks.

969
00:32:17,490 --> 00:32:19,648
The journalist Carlos Minuano

970
00:32:19,649 --> 00:32:21,408
says queer members usually don't go

971
00:32:21,409 --> 00:32:23,329
beyond the beginner rank.

972
00:32:23,330 --> 00:32:26,059
Women never make it to maestre.

973
00:32:26,060 --> 00:32:28,219
Esse viés conservador da União

974
00:32:28,220 --> 00:32:30,299
Digital é viés conservador

975
00:32:30,300 --> 00:32:31,499
de base, né?

976
00:32:31,500 --> 00:32:33,869
Assim, que está na própria doutrina.

977
00:32:33,870 --> 00:32:35,789
This conservative bias is at the

978
00:32:35,790 --> 00:32:37,789
base of the UDV's doctrine.

979
00:32:37,790 --> 00:32:39,948
It preaches traditional gender roles

980
00:32:39,949 --> 00:32:42,269
such as women as mothers, wives,

981
00:32:42,270 --> 00:32:43,309
housewives.

982
00:32:43,310 --> 00:32:45,309
It's strongly binary in the

983
00:32:45,310 --> 00:32:47,228
sense of the spiritual understanding

984
00:32:47,229 --> 00:32:48,188
of the world.

985
00:32:48,189 --> 00:32:50,189
Right and wrong, men and women.

986
00:32:54,540 --> 00:32:56,378
In one of his stories, Carlos

987
00:32:56,379 --> 00:32:57,979
uncovered a controversial document

988
00:32:57,980 --> 00:33:00,219
read out in ayahuasca ceremonies,

989
00:33:00,220 --> 00:33:02,059
saying that homosexualism

990
00:33:02,060 --> 00:33:03,898
contradicts the natural origin of

991
00:33:03,899 --> 00:33:05,739
human existence and would

992
00:33:05,740 --> 00:33:07,579
amount to the extinction of the

993
00:33:07,580 --> 00:33:09,019
human species.

994
00:33:09,020 --> 00:33:11,739
The author was Luis Felipe Belmonte,

995
00:33:11,740 --> 00:33:13,658
the UDV master who owns a soccer

996
00:33:13,659 --> 00:33:14,659
team.

997
00:33:14,820 --> 00:33:16,499
To become a mestre you have to be

998
00:33:16,500 --> 00:33:18,418
married and you can only be a

999
00:33:18,419 --> 00:33:20,658
man. So the whole system is around

1000
00:33:20,659 --> 00:33:22,099
that concept.

1001
00:33:22,100 --> 00:33:24,819
The idea is that the heterosexual

1002
00:33:24,820 --> 00:33:26,819
cisgender male is the

1003
00:33:26,820 --> 00:33:28,739
mestre and that's like the

1004
00:33:28,740 --> 00:33:30,178
higher path and the higher

1005
00:33:30,179 --> 00:33:31,109
knowledge.

1006
00:33:31,110 --> 00:33:33,428
That's anthropologist Bia Labate

1007
00:33:33,429 --> 00:33:34,628
again.

1008
00:33:34,629 --> 00:33:36,869
Gradually, this clashed with Bia's

1009
00:33:36,870 --> 00:33:38,869
own sexual identity, even

1010
00:33:38,870 --> 00:33:40,309
though she had a history with the

1011
00:33:40,310 --> 00:33:41,310
UDV.

1012
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:43,479
This has been very painful to

1013
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:45,319
witness, particularly

1014
00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:47,239
as a queer woman that has

1015
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:49,159
a wife, and the UDV

1016
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:52,039
has in fact a foundational document

1017
00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:54,119
saying that the only legitimate

1018
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:56,119
form of family is a man

1019
00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:57,239
and a woman.

1020
00:33:57,240 --> 00:33:58,240
So it's

1021
00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:01,559
citing as many other religions

1022
00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:03,559
with heteronormativity

1023
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:05,399
and implying that everything else

1024
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:08,198
is pathological and deviation.

1025
00:34:08,199 --> 00:34:11,319
I really think people underestimate

1026
00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:13,158
the mental health effects

1027
00:34:13,159 --> 00:34:15,079
on people like me, on

1028
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:16,919
us, of hearing these

1029
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:18,359
things.

1030
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:20,198
But I personally have a deep

1031
00:34:20,199 --> 00:34:22,839
debt of gratitude to the UDV

1032
00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:24,919
because my first glass of ayahuasca

1033
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:26,839
I drank over there and it

1034
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:28,279
changed my life forever.

1035
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:29,799
I dedicated my whole life to

1036
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:31,399
studying this topic.

1037
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:33,638
And I attended the UDV over 20

1038
00:34:33,639 --> 00:34:34,519
years.

1039
00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:36,439
So I have a part of me that

1040
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:38,279
likes and is grateful, and we'll

1041
00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:39,839
never forget that.

1042
00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:41,519
Although other religions also

1043
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:43,599
condemn homosexuality, I

1044
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:45,839
asked Bia if the use of ayahuasca

1045
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:48,338
made things different in the UDV.

1046
00:34:48,339 --> 00:34:50,338
Using psychedelics related to that

1047
00:34:50,339 --> 00:34:52,738
is extremely cruel

1048
00:34:52,739 --> 00:34:54,499
because people are very vulnerable

1049
00:34:54,500 --> 00:34:55,619
and very open.

1050
00:34:55,620 --> 00:34:58,019
You think about your deeper secrets,

1051
00:34:58,020 --> 00:34:59,778
you look yourself in the mirror, you

1052
00:34:59,779 --> 00:35:02,739
connect to this ineffable

1053
00:35:02,740 --> 00:35:05,139
aspects of reality

1054
00:35:05,140 --> 00:35:07,459
and just open

1055
00:35:07,460 --> 00:35:09,298
up yourself in the middle of

1056
00:35:09,299 --> 00:35:12,418
that experience to have doctrinary

1057
00:35:12,419 --> 00:35:14,979
content anti-gay

1058
00:35:14,980 --> 00:35:16,898
is something that I think should

1059
00:35:16,899 --> 00:35:18,898
be forbidden, actually.

1060
00:35:18,899 --> 00:35:21,059
It should be completely illegal

1061
00:35:21,060 --> 00:35:22,979
and it's against human rights and

1062
00:35:22,980 --> 00:35:24,499
it's oppressive.

1063
00:35:24,500 --> 00:35:26,338
And I personally have suffered

1064
00:35:26,339 --> 00:35:28,338
sitting in ayahuasca ceremonies

1065
00:35:28,339 --> 00:35:30,418
in UDV and listening

1066
00:35:30,419 --> 00:35:32,818
to content like that

1067
00:35:32,819 --> 00:35:34,739
to a point that I decided that I no

1068
00:35:34,740 --> 00:35:36,019
longer attend.

1069
00:35:36,020 --> 00:35:37,858
However, I do feel sad about

1070
00:35:37,859 --> 00:35:39,539
that because there's a part that was

1071
00:35:39,540 --> 00:35:41,539
extremely beautiful and touching and

1072
00:35:41,540 --> 00:35:43,059
has helped me a lot.

1073
00:35:43,060 --> 00:35:45,219
So I personally decided

1074
00:35:45,220 --> 00:35:47,059
to protest and not

1075
00:35:47,060 --> 00:35:48,739
attend the UDV any longer.

1076
00:35:50,990 --> 00:35:52,829
Reporting the story, it struck me

1077
00:35:52,830 --> 00:35:54,349
how hard it was to find current

1078
00:35:54,350 --> 00:35:56,108
followers of the UDV who would

1079
00:35:56,109 --> 00:35:57,949
discuss this matter with me.

1080
00:35:57,950 --> 00:36:00,028
Some feared they'd be reprimanded

1081
00:36:00,029 --> 00:36:01,469
and even banished.

1082
00:36:01,470 --> 00:36:03,309
Others worried about betraying

1083
00:36:03,310 --> 00:36:04,909
an institution that was part of

1084
00:36:04,910 --> 00:36:06,989
their spiritual and social life,

1085
00:36:06,990 --> 00:36:08,829
or that helped them deal with drugs

1086
00:36:08,830 --> 00:36:10,588
and alcohol addiction.

1087
00:36:10,589 --> 00:36:12,269
Others told me about the beauty of

1088
00:36:12,270 --> 00:36:14,188
ayahuasca, and that the

1089
00:36:14,189 --> 00:36:16,028
leaders supporting Bolsonaro

1090
00:36:16,029 --> 00:36:18,028
were a temporary problem that would

1091
00:36:18,029 --> 00:36:19,148
go away.

1092
00:36:19,149 --> 00:36:21,389
Journalist Carlos Minuano.

1093
00:36:21,390 --> 00:36:23,149
Tem algumas pessoas que não querem

1094
00:36:23,150 --> 00:36:25,469
perder esse lugar sagrado,

1095
00:36:25,470 --> 00:36:27,389
esse lugar que

1096
00:36:27,390 --> 00:36:29,069
muitas vezes foram.

1097
00:36:29,070 --> 00:36:30,669
There are some people who don't want

1098
00:36:30,670 --> 00:36:32,589
to lose the sacred place, a

1099
00:36:32,590 --> 00:36:34,349
place that has often been one of

1100
00:36:34,350 --> 00:36:36,189
transformation and growth.

1101
00:36:36,190 --> 00:36:37,949
They don't want to give that up, so

1102
00:36:37,950 --> 00:36:39,869
they either accept what's happening

1103
00:36:39,870 --> 00:36:41,589
or stay silent.

1104
00:36:41,590 --> 00:36:43,429
Armando Grisi said he spent ten

1105
00:36:43,430 --> 00:36:45,269
years working hard to move up in the

1106
00:36:45,270 --> 00:36:47,189
UDV, but he was only allowed

1107
00:36:47,190 --> 00:36:48,949
into the second tier once he

1108
00:36:48,950 --> 00:36:51,279
separated from his former husband.

1109
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:52,719
Quando eu tava no construtivo,

1110
00:36:52,720 --> 00:36:54,239
começou o bulburinho na minha

1111
00:36:54,240 --> 00:36:55,839
cabeça, que eu tinha que arrumar uma

1112
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:57,119
namorada, que eu tinha que me casar

1113
00:36:57,120 --> 00:36:58,159
com uma mulher, que eu tinha que não

1114
00:36:58,160 --> 00:36:58,739
sei o quê, porque eu sei.

1115
00:36:58,740 --> 00:37:00,579
Soon, people started telling me

1116
00:37:00,580 --> 00:37:02,418
I had to find a girlfriend and I

1117
00:37:02,419 --> 00:37:04,338
should get married to a woman.

1118
00:37:04,339 --> 00:37:06,338
When I started dating another man,

1119
00:37:06,339 --> 00:37:08,319
I didn't tell anyone.

1120
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:10,319
In 2018, when Armando

1121
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:12,159
saw UDV leaders starting to back

1122
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:13,999
Bolsonaro for president,

1123
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:15,759
he chose to walk away.

1124
00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:17,599
He left the UDV, moved

1125
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:19,599
to Portugal, and he decided to

1126
00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:21,059
speak out.

1127
00:37:21,060 --> 00:37:22,419
Alguém tem que falar.

1128
00:37:22,420 --> 00:37:23,859
Como as pessoas que estão lá dentro

1129
00:37:23,860 --> 00:37:25,299
não falam? Porque se elas falarem,

1130
00:37:25,300 --> 00:37:26,819
elas são punidas, porque funciona

1131
00:37:26,820 --> 00:37:27,309
como rejeito.

1132
00:37:27,310 --> 00:37:29,069
Somebody has to talk.

1133
00:37:29,070 --> 00:37:31,309
People on the inside don't talk

1134
00:37:31,310 --> 00:37:32,829
because if they do they will be

1135
00:37:32,830 --> 00:37:34,909
punished. It's hypocrisy

1136
00:37:34,910 --> 00:37:37,149
to speak of love and fraternity,

1137
00:37:37,150 --> 00:37:39,309
which is what the mestre taught,

1138
00:37:39,310 --> 00:37:41,309
and in reality be

1139
00:37:41,310 --> 00:37:43,959
prejudiced and moralistic.

1140
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:45,799
Preconceituosa, moralista,

1141
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:47,320
cheia de coisa, entendeu?

1142
00:37:48,790 --> 00:37:50,389
Bia Labate thinks maybe a new

1143
00:37:50,390 --> 00:37:52,979
generation will change the UDV.

1144
00:37:52,980 --> 00:37:54,499
I believe the change has to come

1145
00:37:54,500 --> 00:37:55,619
from within.

1146
00:37:55,620 --> 00:37:57,459
And I don't think we have to engage

1147
00:37:57,460 --> 00:37:59,699
in the demonization of the UDV

1148
00:37:59,700 --> 00:38:01,513
and a pathologization of the UDV.

1149
00:38:02,740 --> 00:38:04,339
That doesn't help that just

1150
00:38:04,340 --> 00:38:06,419
replicates the same systems

1151
00:38:06,420 --> 00:38:07,939
of polarization and hate.

1152
00:38:21,090 --> 00:38:22,529
Altered States is a production of

1153
00:38:22,530 --> 00:38:24,129
the UC Berkeley Center for the

1154
00:38:24,130 --> 00:38:26,369
Science of Psychedelics and PRX.

1155
00:38:26,370 --> 00:38:27,649
This episode was reported and

1156
00:38:27,650 --> 00:38:29,809
produced by Julia Dias Carneiro

1157
00:38:29,810 --> 00:38:31,569
with help from Carlos Minuano and

1158
00:38:31,570 --> 00:38:33,249
Cassady Rosenblum.

1159
00:38:33,250 --> 00:38:35,489
Voice acting by Andre Lacerda,

1160
00:38:35,490 --> 00:38:37,249
Giovanna Romano Sanchez, and

1161
00:38:37,250 --> 00:38:39,009
Augustin Tefoya.

1162
00:38:39,010 --> 00:38:41,169
Adizah Eghan is our senior editor.

1163
00:38:41,170 --> 00:38:42,929
Our executive editor is Malia

1164
00:38:42,930 --> 00:38:44,769
Wollan. Jennie Cataldo is

1165
00:38:44,770 --> 00:38:46,209
our senior producer, and our

1166
00:38:46,210 --> 00:38:48,369
researcher is Cassady Rosenblum.

1167
00:38:48,370 --> 00:38:50,369
Our associate producer is Jade Abdul

1168
00:38:50,370 --> 00:38:52,289
Malik, and our audio engineers are

1169
00:38:52,290 --> 00:38:53,676
Terence Bernardo and Jennie Cataldo.

1170
00:38:54,770 --> 00:38:57,089
Fact checking by Graham Hacia.

1171
00:38:57,090 --> 00:38:58,849
Our executive producers are Malia

1172
00:38:58,850 --> 00:39:01,249
Wollan and Jocelyn Gonzales.

1173
00:39:01,250 --> 00:39:02,849
And our project manager is Edwin

1174
00:39:02,850 --> 00:39:03,809
Ochoa.

1175
00:39:03,810 --> 00:39:05,889
Our theme music is by Thao Nguyen

1176
00:39:05,890 --> 00:39:07,009
and Nate Brenner.

1177
00:39:07,010 --> 00:39:08,849
Special thanks to Bob Jesse.

1178
00:39:08,850 --> 00:39:09,912
And I'm your host, Arielle

1179
00:39:09,913 --> 00:39:10,913
Duhaime-Ross.

1180
00:39:11,330 --> 00:39:13,009
Be sure to subscribe, rate, and

1181
00:39:13,010 --> 00:39:14,769
review Altered States wherever you

1182
00:39:14,770 --> 00:39:16,049
get your podcasts.

1183
00:39:16,050 --> 00:39:17,809
And heads up, we're taking a quick

1184
00:39:17,810 --> 00:39:18,849
midseason break.

1185
00:39:18,850 --> 00:39:20,609
We'll be back with new episodes in

1186
00:39:20,610 --> 00:39:21,809
two weeks.

1187
00:39:21,810 --> 00:39:23,649
Most well-known psychedelics remain

1188
00:39:23,650 --> 00:39:25,409
illegal around the world, including

1189
00:39:25,410 --> 00:39:27,329
in the United States, where it is a

1190
00:39:27,330 --> 00:39:29,089
criminal offense to manufacture,

1191
00:39:29,090 --> 00:39:30,849
possess, dispense, or supply most

1192
00:39:30,850 --> 00:39:32,849
psychedelics, with few exceptions.

1193
00:39:32,850 --> 00:39:34,769
Altered States does not recommend or

1194
00:39:34,770 --> 00:39:36,689
encourage the use of psychedelics

1195
00:39:36,690 --> 00:39:38,609
or offer instructions in their use.