Scandalized Episode 1: The Golden Opportunity
 
HUNT: So, Jackie, when I say the words political corruption, what kind of places do you think of as like hotbeds of public officials sort of abusing their office? 


KETTLER: You know, I hate to disparage any place, but there are definitely some cities and states where we tend to think of corruption being more prevalent. Louisiana is one state that has had its struggles. Detroit. But I have to say that the one that comes to mind the most, and probably for many of our listeners, is Chicago. Organized crime, political patronage, machine politics. I mean, Chicago kind of has it all. 


HUNT: Yeah. And I think, Jackie, the stats back you up on that. According to statistics put out by the Department of Justice, Chicago has seen nearly 2000 public corruption convictions since the 1970s. And that's more than any other city in America. This brings us to 2001, where our story begins today. The Department of Justice needed to fill a vacancy for the U.S. attorney in the Northern District of Illinois. That's the district that includes Chicago. President Bush nominated an attorney named Patrick Fitzgerald to the post. Fitzgerald was arguably the perfect choice for the Northern District because he had never lived in Chicago, so he was unlikely to be corrupted by a state and a city well known for that kind of thing. 


When he was confirmed by the Senate in October of 2001, Fitzgerald knew his hands would be pretty full in his new position. This was Chicago, after all. What he didn't know is that just two years after his confirmation, he'd be serving an indictment to no less a target than George Ryan, the governor of Illinois. Throughout his first two years on the job, Fitzgerald and his team uncovered a vast network of political bribery, money laundering and gift giving orchestrated by Governor Ryan and his political appointees. Ryan himself allegedly benefited from his office to the tune of nearly $200,000. It was a huge case, even by Illinois standards. 


But unbeknownst to Fitzgerald, this was just the tip of the iceberg. Because, believe it or not, this episode is not about George Ryan. Before he was indicted, Ryan sensed the political damage he was taking on from Fitzgerald's investigation, so he opted not to run for reelection in 2002, which probably was a wise choice. Instead, Illinois got behind a different candidate who seemed perfect for the moment a photogenic 45 year old rising political star with a head of suspiciously thick black hair named Rod Blagojevich.


BLAGOJEVICH: Illinois is the land of opportunity, but over the last several years, our state has been adrift. Corruption has replaced leadership. I'm running for governor because I believe Illinois can do better. Let's roll up our sleeves. Let's focus on doing what's right. It's up to us. Let's get it done.


HUNT: Blagojevich campaigned as a reformer, vowing to clean up state government and turn the page on what he called a legacy of corruption in Illinois. In response to decades of scandal and political misbehavior, voters felt confident in electing a young reformer from a different political party.


BLAGOJEVICH: ...politics of mediocrity and corruption. You voted for change. I intend to deliver it. 


[Applause]


HUNT: But the people of Illinois were in for a rude awakening. Just a few short years later, Patrick Fitzgerald found himself at the podium.


FITZGERALD: Good morning.


HUNT: Announcing the arrest of yet another Illinois governor, and this time for a truly sensational set of alleged crimes.


FITZGERALD: It's a very sad day for Illinois government. Governor Blagojevich has been arrested in the middle of what we can only describe as a political corruption crime spree. The most appalling conduct Governor Blagojevich engaged in is that he attempted to sell the Senate seat, the Senate seat he had the sole right to appoint to replace president elect Obama.


HUNT: Illinois voters hoped they had elected someone to put a stop to the corruption that had plagued their state for decades. Instead, they got a fresh set of public embarrassments. This time on the national stage. [Music] This is scandalized. A podcast of political impropriety. I'm Charlie Hunt.


KETTLER: And I'm Jackie Kettler. We're both political scientists. We teach and research in American politics, but we're also shameless junkies for political scandals, corruption, bribery, sex, lies, sins great and small, committed by politicians and those around them. We can't get enough of it. Each episode will bring you a new political scandal from history, or a few of them, and walk you through all the gory details. 


HUNT: But we're not just here to give you the nerd version of celebrity gossip. After we spill the tea, we're going to go deep on the political meaning and motivations behind the scandal, what political science can teach us about what happened, and how the scandal and its aftermath changed American politics. 


KETTLER: Which scandals make a splash with the public and which don't? Which ones should get more or less attention than they already do. Why do some politicians get punished either by the justice system or the public, while others seemingly get off scot free? And how in God's name do these politicians think that this was a good idea? 


HUNT: Today on the show, I'll dish to Jackie about the tumultuous tenure of Rod Blagojevich, his brazen attempts to sell a U.S. Senate seat for personal gain, and the price he paid with impeachment, unemployment and imprisonment: for a little while anyway. So, Jackie, before we get to the Senate seating shenanigans, we should probably get some perspective on Blagojevich before he became a household name. Because, as Patrick Fitzgerald just told us, this Senate seat fiasco was not some one time lapse of judgment. 


He called it a crime spree that occurred over a number of years, including almost immediately after Blagojevich got sworn into office. But how could Blagojevich, as a new governor, have had time to so immediately begin breaking the law? Partly because, as you know, Jackie, new administrations, whether it's a mayor, a governor or a president, they need to hire people, especially with such a controversial governor headed out the door. Blagojevich and his administration needed to fill a lot of government positions. 


According to the Denver Post, Blagojevich and his aides had personally approved nearly 1800 hires, promotions and transfers in early 2003. The problem was that hundreds of those jobs were protected by civil service rules that Blagojevich did not exactly follow.


KETTLER: And by civil service positions, we mean jobs meant to be filled based on expertise and qualifications. These are reforms that date back over a century ago, when state and federal government in America was totally overridden by cronyism, basically giving out government jobs as political favors based on things like party loyalty. Progressive civil service reform laws were put into place to prevent politics from playing a role in these appointments.


HUNT: Exactly. And I think we already have a sense from Blagojevich that politics was not only part of this process, but that it played a starring role. Fitzgerald's probe into this and other wrongdoing by Blagojevich is called Operation Board Games. It's an appropriate name for the investigation, because Fitzgerald needs to take his time getting all the pieces into place. He's trying to nail Blagojevich not just for some questionable hiring practices, but for the full range of extortion, fraud, and influence peddling orchestrated by the governor and his friends. 


And these friends, they don't end up being all that friendly. In fact, they help lead Fitzgerald not just to the broader swath of corruption Blagojevich is engaged in, but specifically to his attempts to sell Barack Obama's Senate seat. Blagojevich works with, among others, prominent Illinois businessman and political insider Tony Rezko. Here's the Chicago Tribune's Jeff Cohen on that relationship.


COHEN: He got to the stage where he's listening to the likes of Tony Rezko a lot because of this chip on his shoulder and this obsession with fundraising, where that was really the only job he felt he needed to do. And these were guys who were willing to help him in that regard. They were willing to pressure state contractors and people looking for state contracts to give money to friends of Blagojevich, to his campaign fund. In return, they get their state contracts or they get the TRS.


HUNT: This is how it worked. It's what's called a pay to play scheme. When the government uses its influence and power to dole out not just public positions, but government contracts, regulatory changes and public policy efforts not based on their merits, but instead based on who can afford to contribute to the campaigns of the governor and his friends. You want to play, you have to pay. [Music] Rezko, in particular, gets deeply caught up in this, and not just on behalf of Blagojevich. He's out in the open as the person facilitating these schemes. And as a result, Rezko is indicted in 2006 by who else? Patrick Fitzgerald, the U.S. attorney in Chicago. He's charged with using his influence with public officials to demand millions of dollars in kickbacks from companies that wanted to do business with the state. But who are these public officials who Rezko is working for? As Rezko's trial is going on the court filings for the case became public, and three little words keep popping up that would come to change the course of Blagojevich's political future. Public Official A. This Public Official A was the main subject of Fitzgerald's investigation. The guy at the top responsible for orchestrating these schemes and just as importantly, benefiting from them financially. Who could Public Official A possibly be?


PEARSON: Blagojevich was swept into office on a theme of reform.


HUNT: That's Rick Pearson of the Chicago Tribune. Blagojevich himself hasn't publicly been named yet by Fitzgerald or anyone under investigation. So he does what any good politician would do. He runs for reelection, but it's no cakewalk.


PEARSON: We find ourselves in a referendum of whether Blagojevich has really changed the way he's done business, whether he is the reformer that he pledged.


HUNT: It's not as if the ongoing corruption investigations aren't campaign issues. It's the first question in a debate between Blagojevich and his opponent, State Treasurer Judy Baar Topinka, who has a few theories about who Rezko's Public Official A might be.


TOPINKA: You know we have the U.S. attorney consistently chasing after you and your your contributors and making allegations, including calling you Public Official A, I don't know that you've really done what you promised, and you did promise.


BLAGOJEVICH: Well, she sure does come out swinging, doesn't she? Now she raises, for example, Public Official A but if you want to talk about what a Public Official A really means, it's A for absent. Treasurer Topinka was absent when Governor Ryan was running our state into the ground, and he had the most.


HUNT: Blagojevich manages to dance around the issue. This constellation of emerging scandals is definitely out there, but it's hard for most voters to see the contours of them just yet. And without sufficient details, they're going to have a hard time holding him accountable at the ballot box, even while associates of his, like Rezko, are falling like dominoes. And Blagojevich, for whatever his faults, is masterful at blurring the lines and talking his way out of trouble. Blagojevich wins reelection by almost ten points. He lives to fight another four years.


BLAGOJEVICH: I want the people of Illinois to know [Pause] you ain't seen nothing yet. All right. 


[Crowd chanting 4 more years]


HUNT: So, Jackie, let's take a quick breather here and regroup before we get on to all of this Senate appointment mess. So first, you know, on these kinds of corruption issues in state governments, like is is this kind of behavior typical for state governments? Like what what kind of protections do we have in place for these kinds of pay to play schemes that we're learning about?


KETTLER: It's a really good question, and it used to be much more common. You go back 100 or more years, and our state governments sometimes were a bit wild. There was a lot of corruption, and there was a real effort to try to clean up and professionalize state governments, partially by the progressive movement in the early 1900s. I won't say they don't exist today, I think they probably involve campaign finance and policy more than perhaps these political appointments. Partially because we have the civil service reforms we mentioned earlier where a lot of state government positions are professionals, they're not just put in place by the governor.


HUNT: Well, in this stuff, I mean, even at the federal level goes all the way, like I'm thinking of Andrew Jackson, Right? All these all this party patronage and just giving out jobs based on how loyal you are to the party. So this stuff is an effort to clean up that kind of thing.


KETTLER: For sure. So this information is out there, right? Like Blagojevich is in trouble already. So how in the world does he manage to get reelected?


HUNT: I think there are a couple of reasons here. You know, some of which are pretty well grounded in political science. So, you know, one thing we need to consider is that by this time in 2003, Illinois is an increasingly blue state. Listeners may believe it or not, but it did used to be won by Republicans sometimes. But you have these elements of partisan sorting, right, where voters are reliably living in certain places instead of others. You have this sort of trope of more urban liberals and rural conservatives, and these geographic patterns are really starting to take shape during this time. And so that's how you get a kind of reliably blue and Democratic Illinois. And we know that that dictates a lot of voter behavior. And so that's how we might end up with Blagojevich again.


KETTLER: Well, and he was also the incumbent. And in political science we talk about the incumbency advantage. Do you want to explain what that is, Charlie?


HUNT: So incumbents meaning, you know, current office holders who are running for reelection have a number of advantages over challengers. So, you know, one of those is name recognition, right? Your name has been on the ballot before. You're more of a known quantity, right? For better or for worse. You have a record of achievement that you can run on, and you also have the advantages of the office itself. Now, Blagojevich may have been using those advantages to, you know, maybe not so legal ends, but you can make public appearances right around policy in ways that are not as controversial and really up your profile even more.


KETTLER: I'm also curious about voter evaluations of candidates, particularly in Illinois. Given the legacy of corruption, is it possible voters just assume they're all corrupt and don't really take that into account when evaluating candidates?


HUNT: Yeah, I think that's a really good point, Jackie. I think I think you have a few different elements at work here. Number one is that his opponent in this debate, Judy Baar Topinka, was also a part of the previous administration. She was serving during the previous administration. And so Blagojevich is able to sort of hit right back at her and in sort of tarring her with the mistakes of the George Ryan administration, even if she was not innately involved in that kind of thing. We do have some evidence that at this time, voters did kind of have this view of the matter. During the debate between Topinka and Blagojevich, one of the moderators brings this up explicitly.


FITZGERALD: A recent channel nine Tribune poll showed that about the same number of people feel that Governor Blagojevich would clean up Springfield as feel you would. And then there's another third of the people who were surveyed who feel neither of you would do it. What do you say to voters who are looking at this race and throwing up their hands and saying, everyone does it, everyone is corrupt. It doesn't matter which people we elect.


KETTLER: A lot of voters are concerned or do have this perspective that our politicians, our elected officials, are using the office to benefit themselves in one way or another. And so that may be an underlying attitude that's going to make them more cynical in evaluating candidates. But I think is a really interesting perspective to then say to kind of excuse the behavior. I mean, Blagojevich is also kind of an interesting character. I mean, do you think that played any role in this, Charlie?


HUNT: You know, this I don't think this is the first comparison we're going to make between Blagojevich and Donald Trump. Blagojevich has undeniable charisma. He is a very smooth talker, very good at speaking to voters. Has these gifts of communication that someone like Donald Trump undeniably has, and I think in these situations where you have voters feeling really cynical and thinking that, you know, all politicians are corrupt, there may be more inclined to say, well, you know, at the end of the day, I might as well go with the guy I like, the guy who sort of communicates well, who, like, has this kind of charisma. Right. .


KETTLER: And is entertaining.


HUNT: Oh, absolutely. I mean, we're going to continue to be entertained throughout this episode. And I think, as we'll discuss later, this may not be the only similarity he shares with Trump. [Music] So, Jackie, before we sort of turn to the main event here, I think we could probably use a quick political science lesson on how we fill Senate seats that become vacant, since this is what we're going to talk about with Blagojevich. I wonder if you could fill us in.


KETTLER: So in most states, the governor is responsible for appointing a new senator. If there's a vacancy due to death, resignation or in this case, taking a different office like president or vice president.


HUNT: This just happened in 2020 with Kamala Harris, right?


KETTLER: Correct. So we saw Governor Gavin Newsom appoint the Democratic replacement for Kamala Harris's Senate seat in California, after Joe Biden chose her as his running mate. And if we rewind to 2008, we saw the same thing. Barack Obama, of course, was also a member of the Senate, in this case from Illinois, another solidly blue state with another Democratic governor. So this is where we'll see Blagojevich come into the picture as the state's governor.


HUNT: Jackie, do you think governors should really appoint these vacant Senate seats? I mean, shouldn't we just have special elections?


KETTLER: This is a really interesting question. Should this just be an appointment? And does it open the door for bad behavior or for governors to appoint political allies, friends, things like that. But at the same time, special elections cost money and sometimes have really low turnout. And it may take a while to hold a special election.


HUNT: Right, if we think it's important that voters have the full representation that they are entitled to in the Senate or whatever office we're talking about, it is important to get that seat filled quickly so that, for example, in this case, Illinois isn't just stuck with one senator for several months.


KETTLER: This is one of those situations where it's kind of hard, but we can see advantages and disadvantages to either approach.


HUNT: Absolutely. Let's get back to Rod Blagojevich. [Music]


HUNT: Blagojevich begins his second term in 2007 with a cloud of suspicion hanging around his administration. More information continues to leak out into the press about the shady practices going on in and around the Blagojevich administration, and in February of 2008, a federal judge confirms what most Illinois political insiders had all but known for months. The Public Official A in the case involving Tony Rezko, who had orchestrated these pay to play schemes, was Rod Blagojevich. Nobody's really shocked by this, but the confirmation of it really shifts the political ground the governor is standing on. One by one key institutions turn on Rod. For one thing, the news media who had followed this Public Official A story from the beginning are done giving the governor the benefit of the doubt. The Chicago Tribune editorial board publicly calls for his resignation.


KETTLER: Obviously not ideal for a governor from a political opinion perspective, but is he actually getting any governing done during this time?


HUNT: These emerging scandals are really affecting his ability to actually govern. So the state legislature in Illinois also is starting to see Blagojevich as politically toxic. And so they're cooperating with him less and less. He's having trouble getting all the things done that he promised during his reelection campaign. And the people of Illinois are quickly following suit. In public opinion surveys done around this time, Blagojevich's statewide job approval rating is all the way down into the low 20s, with some surveys putting him into the teens. In other words, the vast majority of Illinoisans simply don't trust Rod anymore. For all his public blustering, this is obviously the kind of political position no governor wants to be in. But as 2008 inches forward, Blagojevich senses what can only be called a golden opportunity to get him out of this mess.


OBAMA: I stand before you today to announce my candidacy for president of the United States of America.


MEDIA SEGMENT: Barack Obama, the senator from Illinois, the junior senator from Illinois, has won the Iowa caucuses, the Democratic caucuses, and Iowa, the first big test of the 2008 presidential campaign.


Senator Barack Obama will win the South Carolina Democratic primary and by a substantial margin. At 7 p.m. Senator Barack Obama is, as of this hour, the presumptive Democratic nominee for president of the United States as the polls close.


HUNT: After becoming a national sensation with his 2004 Democratic National Convention speech, Barack Obama runs for president and against all odds, wins the Democratic nomination over his Senate colleague Hillary Clinton. And although his victory surprised a lot of the Democratic establishment, you'd better believe that Rod Blagojevich was paying very close attention. He'd spent his first five years in office selling access to government contracts, policy support, and state government influence in exchange for campaign contributions. If the junior senator from Illinois wins the presidency, Blagojevich is the governor responsible for appointing his successor. Naturally, Blagojevich begins thinking of how he can use this potential decision for his own maximum benefit. 


KETTLER: What's the status of Fitzgerald's investigation at this point? This is still going on, right?


HUNT: Yeah, exactly. So as Blagojevich is exploring his options. The Operation Board Games case continues to advance, and in June of 2008, Tony Rezko is officially convicted on six counts of wire fraud, six counts of mail fraud, two counts of corrupt solicitation, and two counts of money laundering. This is bad news. I mean, obviously it's bad news for Rezko, but it's also bad news for the governor. Here's the Chicago Tribune's John Chase.


CHASE: Once Rezko is convicted and realizes that, you know, the show is sort of over for him to try to avoid a longer prison sentence, he starts cooperating. And one of the things he tells investigators is that John Wyma, who was one of Rod's good friends and was a lobbyist. Rezko tells the feds that Wyma was involved in one of these deals at the Illinois Health Facilities Planning Board for a health system called Provena. Wyma helped communicate to Provena what the going rate was to get something through this board.


HUNT: This gets the attention of Fitzgerald and his team. The FBI subpoenas Wyma, who realizes he's in trouble and is thinking about cooperating himself.


CHASE: And just as he's doing that, he's in a fundraising meeting with Rod where Rod kind of goes off the rails and is talking about, uh, you know, doing things for Children's Memorial Hospital. But in exchange for that, he wants a $50,000 donation from the CEO of the hospital system.


KETTLER: So, Charlie, I don't have a ton of direct experience myself with extorting hospitals for campaign donations, but this feels like a pretty clear smoking gun, right? It's not vague. It's not unclear. You give me the money, I will then give you the policy you want.


HUNT: Exactly. I mean, this evidence is about as clear cut as it gets. And Fitzgerald and his team decide to use it to take their investigation to the next level.


CHASE: That they're able to convince a judge to permit them to wiretap Rod's phones. 


HUNT: A wiretap recorded audio of all of Blagojevich's phone calls. This is the beginning of the end. The wiretap begins in late October, which is unfortunate timing for the governor, who at this point is engaged in what can only be called a full on auction over Obama's Senate seat. Potential candidates include Illinois Congressman Jesse Jackson Jr, the son of the famed civil rights leader and former presidential candidate. Blagojevich considers this option, and the FBI hears all of it.


UNKNOWN: I got some lady calling my house for Jesse Jr. Here a little while ago.


UNKNOWN: I'm telling you, that guy is shameless.


UNKNOWN: Unbelievable. Isn't it? Then we were approached. Pay to play. You know, he'd raise me 500 grand and the other guy would raise a million. So I made him a senator.


HUNT: We've established that Blagojevich is obsessed with fundraising. But Blagojevich and his advisers aren't wild about Jackson, even with the potential windfall it could bring him.


UNKNOWN: I mean, Jesse Jr. Can't believe anything he says. Well, he's got third parties saying to me, it's a heck of a lot more substantial than what we're getting from the Obama people. Okay. I used to like him. I don't like him anymore. You know, he's he's a bad guy.


HUNT: At this point, Blagojevich is frustrated with the job of governor. His approval is in the tank. Most of Illinois has turned against him. The state legislature is not cooperating, and so he's looking for a way out of town. This Senate seat could be his ticket. Which brings us to another potential candidate for the job, Valerie Jarrett, a close Obama adviser. Blagojevich muses that if he appoints Jarrett, Obama might show his appreciation by bringing him along to Washington in a cushy position in the new administration.


UNKNOWN: So he saw Valerie Jarrett. Yeah, we should get something for that, couldn't I? Yes. How about Health and Human Services? Can I get that.


HUNT: Blagojevich is gunning for a top cabinet position, head of the Department of Health and Human Services. But John Harris, Blagojevich's chief of staff, is a little more realistic about what Obama can really offer.


UNKNOWN: You know, if I were him. You know, a top cabinet post, I wouldn't do it if I were him.


UNKNOWN: I agree with you. Because of Rezko.


HUNT: Because of Blagojevich's association with Tony Rezko, not to mention the cloud of scandal that's already around Blagojevich himself, he may be too toxic to put in such a high profile position. Okay, Blagojevich says, how about being appointed as an ambassador to a foreign country?


BLAGOJEVICH: How about India? India is vital.


UNKNOWN: Yeah. India is vital. I'd say India.


BLAGOJEVICH: Is that realistic or is he to reject that?


UNKNOWN: I think so.


BLAGOJEVICH: No shit. Germany. England. France. Canada.


HUNT: Canada? Sure. Why not? Blagojevich is basically an online shopper at this point. He's sending out emissaries. He's talking to affiliates of potential candidates, basically feeling out how he can get the best possible deal for his seat. [Pause] And on November 4th, 2008, the day of the presidential election, Blagojevich makes his most audacious suggestion yet.


BLAGOJEVICH: And if I can't get the right deal, John, then I'll take it myself. That's kind of where I'm at.


KETTLER: Wow. Even for Blagojevich, that is pretty unbelievable. Blagojevich is actually suggesting appointing himself to the Senate seat.


HUNT: Yeah. I mean, I guess we got to give him some points for boldness. Plus, his timing is great because later that day, Obama's seat can officially be put on the auctioning block.


MEDIA: And CNN can now project that Barack Obama, 47 years old, will become the president elect of the United States. We project he now has the… 


HUNT: Very next day after the election, at a press conference, Blagojevich publicly reassures the media and the voters that this is going to be an above board process, with candidate qualification coming first.


BLAGOJEVICH: I believe that we should find the best qualified person, whoever he or she may be, wherever he or she may come from. And so the process begins today. The thinking begins today.


HUNT: In public, he's acting like everything's on the up and up. Qualification comes first in private, in discussions with his wife, Patty.


BLAGOJEVICH: What's best for us, right? First and foremost, on the legal front, you know. The personal front and the political front in that order.


HUNT: He's pedaling the Senate seat out to whoever can give him and his wife the biggest payoff. The same exact day as that press conference in yet another taped phone call, Blagojevich articulates in as clear and profane terms as possible his plans for Obama's Senate seat. It turns out to be the nail in his coffin.


BLAGOJEVICH: I told my nephew, Alex, he just turned 26 today. I said, Alex, you know, I call him for his birthday. And I said, it's too bad you're not four years older, because I could have given you a U.S. Senate seat for your birthday. Yeah, you know what I mean? I mean, I've got this thing and it's fucking golden, and I'm just not giving it up for fucking nothing.


HUNT: I've got this thing, the open Senate seat, and it's effing golden. I'm not giving it up for nothing. [Pause] This conversation is the last straw for Patrick Fitzgerald. He still has a case he wants to build, but the sheer brazenness of this, and the immediacy of it, forces him to act early. He can't just let Blagojevich actually sell off a seat in the US Senate, or even worse, take it for himself. So his team assembles the case they've made so far. They collect the wiretaps, they collect the other evidence, and they act before it's too late. At 6 a.m. on December 9th, a month to the day after the infamous golden conversation, the head of the FBI's Chicago office calls Blagojevich to tell him there's a warrant out for his arrest. Blagojevich responds by asking, is this a joke? It was not.


UNKNOWN: Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich was arrested along with his chief of staff, John Harris, on Tuesday morning by federal authorities and charged with corruption. Blagojevich is accused of trying to make money from selecting Obama's replacement.


HUNT: It's all falling apart on a dime, even those who hadn't yet abandoned Blagojevich turned their backs on him for good. President elect Barack Obama, for one, is not at all pleased with this news.


OBAMA: Like the rest of the people of Illinois, I am saddened and sobered by the news that came out of the U.S. Attorney's office today.


HUNT: Obama makes clear that neither he nor any of his staff had any conversations with Blagojevich about the Senate seat. Blagojevich's approval rating in Illinois has tanked to 7%, including only 13% of Democrats. 70% believe that Blagojevich should resign immediately, and 73% say that at the very least, the state legislature should impeach him, and the legislature is more than happy to take the voters up on that offer. Blagojevich refuses to resign, and so the Illinois General Assembly, that's the lower house of the state legislature, immediately schedules impeachment hearings and votes for early January. 


Blagojevich's reaction to this news and his strategy for winning this case kind of tells us everything we need to know about him. In the weeks leading up to the trial, he's not working the case from the inside, trying to convince state legislators to support him. He's not bringing together the best legal experts to win the case, he certainly isn't keeping a dignified silence in the interest of not incriminating himself anymore. Instead, he's on television everywhere.


UNKNOWN: Since early this year, Blagojevich has gone on a PR offensive, doing many interviews, declaring his innocence, even unsuccessfully.


BLAGOJEVICH: Now give me X number of dollars, which is why so much of the story is upside down in these accusations against me are taking snippets of conversations out of context.


UNKNOWN: But did you say those things?


BLAGOJEVICH: If you hear the whole story and you hear all of it, have.


UNKNOWN: You lost your political base? Is it gone?


BLAGOJEVICH: Here's the question I have to you to Mayor Daley and everyone else. What ever happened to the presumption of innocence?


UNKNOWN: ...Able to deny and prove.


KETTLER: And Charlie, does this strategy work?


HUNT: Shockingly, Jackie, it does not. Blagojevich's political situation just simply could not be overcome. The nation and the state's voters had turned on him, and in this case, his colleagues in the state legislature had turned on him. On January 9th, 2009, Blagojevich's impeached by the Illinois House of Representatives in a 114 to 1 vote. Three weeks later, the Illinois Senate votes unanimously to remove Blagojevich from office. 


And unfortunately for Blagojevich, the now former governor didn't just break political rules. He pretty clearly broke the law, too. Although it takes some time, including an initially hung jury, Patrick Fitzgerald streamlines the case against Blagojevich. On June 27th, 2011, two and a half years after his initial arrest, justice finally comes knocking for Rod.


UNKNOWN: Former Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich was found guilty today on 17 charges of corruption, including an effort to barter President Obama's old Senate seat.


HUNT: Finally, for a guy who could never stop talking, Blagojevich is speechless.


BLAGOJEVICH: Patti and I obviously are very disappointed in the outcome. I frankly am am stunned. Um, there's not much left to say other than uh...


HUNT: December of 2011, Blagojevich is sentenced to 14 years in prison. He reported to prison on March 15th, 2012, at the Federal Correction Institution in Englewood, Colorado, to begin a sentence not scheduled to end until 2026.


So, Jackie, there is still so much to unpack here. I think a lot we can learn from this, this fairly ridiculous story. To help us untangle some of these threads, I thought it'd be helpful for us to use some categories for discussion. And so I think we'll begin with what I'm guessing is going to be my favorite category, which we'll call “What Were They Thinking?” Jackie, what in God's name was Rod Blagojevich thinking? Like, did he really think he was going to get away with this?


KETTLER: He probably did, in some ways, think that he could get away with this. It reminds me, I mean, just some of the brazenness and the unbelievable things that were happening reminds me of some of the different things that happened in former President Trump's administration and his kind of approach to holding the office. I mean, what do you think, Charlie? Does that comparison make sense to you?


HUNT: One way in which I feel like he's similar to Donald Trump is that he's clearly unpredictable and really thrives on being unpredictable. And there's actually a great quote from the the reporter we heard from earlier, Rick Pearson, that I think speaks to this.


PEARSON: He's a very difficult person to try to figure out. People were always asking about, Will Blagojevich do X or do Y? And somehow he'd end up doing Z.


HUNT: And so I think in this way, right. Blagojevich clearly seems to think he can talk his way out of these issues.


KETTLER: He also seems to be trying to touch into some populist notions, particularly going back to that first, his first campaign. Is that correct, Charlie?


HUNT: Yeah. I think in terms of, you know, this idea that he was running as the people's champion, you know, I'm going to be your ace in the hole to sort of clean up Illinois politics. Right. And we see him playing this card again and again, you know, as he's trying to defend himself.


BLAGOJEVICH: Preordained and the fix is in to remove a governor elected twice by the people and not allow that governor a chance to bring witnesses in to prove his innocence. And if the senators in Illinois and the lawmakers in Illinois can do that to a sitting governor, imagine what they can do to average ordinary citizens.


HUNT: During his campaigns for President Donald Trump, his constant refrain would be, you know, "Oh, they're not coming after me, they're really coming after you and I'm the only thing standing in their way." 


And Jackie, another area, you know, I think we see some overlap is the interaction with the media.


KETTLER: Blagojevich clearly enjoys the media attention, it seems like. So I mean, it really seems like he's trying to use the media to get out of trouble. This idea of going public. Charlie, do you want to explain a little bit what going public means?


HUNT: Yeah. So, you know, it's usually referenced in terms of presidents, but I think it's in terms of any politician, right. If they're having a lot of difficulty getting things done, you know, within their office or cooperating with the legislature, which we know Blagojevich had difficulty doing. You go straight to the people, right. If I can get the people on my side, if I can get the public opinion on my side, then I can sort of force the hand of the people I'm trying to work with or trying to get to do what I want. And because they're scared of the public too, right? Then they will be motivated to then work with me or to let me off easy when I get indicted or something like that. You know, it's reflected in his coverage. 


And there's a Chicago Tribune op-ed from early 2008 that I think speaks to this tendency. They said, quote, "He has never shifted his mindset from campaign mode to the reality of governing, favoring grandstanding, photo ops and public relations blitzes to the serious policy duties of the office."


MEDIA INTERVIEW: Former Governor Rod Blagojevich. Here we go.


KETTLER: And I mean, how does this play out for Blagojevich?


HUNT: I think he thought it would succeed. But in a lot of ways, it really did not.


MEDIA INTERVIEW Why exactly are you here? Honest to God. What?


BLAGOJEVICH: Well, you know, I've been wanting to be on your show in the worst way for the longest time.


MEDIA INTERVIEW: Well, you're on in the worst way. Believe me, I am. I saw you on The View. I saw you on the Rachel Maddow Show. I saw you on the Today show. I saw you on, I think, every other show that is in production currently. And the more you talked and the more you repeated your innocence, the more I said to myself, oh, this guy is guilty. 


HUNT: I think this plays into this sort of final similarity I kind of see between Blagojevich and Trump, which is the size of the ego, that this is a guy who was drinking his own Kool-Aid, who had this sense that everybody was out to get him, that he was just super aggrieved. Right.


 KETTLER: So in some ways just did not have a realistic expectation, perhaps, or perception of how this was going to play out. 


HUNT: You know, we see him kind of descend into this level of what I can sort of only call delusion here. 


BLAGOJEVICH: I'm not the first person this has happened to. All you got to do is read the Bible, and parts of the Bible are filled with stories like this. And then I thought about Mandela, Doctor King, Gandhi and and try to put some perspective in all of this. 


KETTLER: Those are some quite some comparisons. 


HUNT: Yeah. And we see this happen in politics, right? Politicians who because they're running for office because all this attention is on them. I think this might help explain like how they come to see themselves in this way. [Music] So, Jackie, next I'm going to move us to something that I am calling the George Costanza test. 


MEDIA INTERVIEW: Was that wrong? Should I not have done that? I tell you, I gotta plead ignorance on this thing. Because if anyone had said anything to me at all when I first started here, that that sort of thing was frowned upon, you know, because I've worked in a lot of offices and I tell you, people do that all the time. 


HUNT: So, Jackie, was this wrong? Should Governor Blagojevich not have done that? 


KETTLER: Well, I actually think it's a little complicated. Broadly, we can probably say yes, but our listeners are probably wondering whether a lot of this stuff was really so serious. Was it totally illegal and obviously wrong against the law? But don't a lot of politicians seemingly do this? 


HUNT: Yeah, exactly. And let's be honest, he did a lot of wild things here, including stuff we did not even have time to talk about. But let's start with the big one of selling the Senate seat. 


KETTLER: So this connects to a broader issue where a lot of politicians and perhaps voters for that matter, think politics is interchangeable with business.


COHEN: I did an interview years before Tony Rezko was indicted, and he's like, well, that's business. That's what you do. Like, these are my friends. These are people I trust.


HUNT: That was Jeff Cohen from the Chicago Tribune again. And I think Blagojevich really does kind of fall into this same kind of category as Tony Rezko in really having difficulty telling the difference here between what's business and what's politics and what's government and what's campaigns, that these things all kind of run together for him.


KETTLER: I want to return to the ambassador topic for a minute, because it just really caught my attention that he was angling for a job as a foreign ambassador for the Obama administration. Obviously, Blagojevich was a bit delusional here. Or was he? I mean, do presidents dole out these jobs as political rewards?


HUNT: I mean, I think we can say that like, yes, Blagojevich was deluded, like you had his chief of staff pushing back and saying, like, I don't know if you can really expect to get Secretary of Health and Human Services, which especially looking forward a year like a year later, they're trying to pass the Affordable Care Act. And it's like, imagine if Rod Blagojevich had been the secretary of HHS. But when we're talking about ambassadors, that's where we really start to see some pretty questionable hiring on the part of both Democrats and Republicans alike. This is a long standing practice in terms of handing out these kinds of jobs as a form of patronage for fundraisers, or for high profile supporters and people like that. Where I think Blagojevich and his chief of staff were maybe aiming a little too high, was that there's a difference between an ambassadorship to a country that is small, or that we don't have a ton of diplomatic relations with, compared to like, China and India, these major geopolitical players. I'm not sure that was really ever in the cards for Rod.


KETTLER: Yeah, I think I think I agree with you there, Charlie.


HUNT: So let's go to our next category, which we'll call Comeback Kids. Governor Bill Clinton coined this term during his 1992 campaign for president.


UNKNOWN: I think we know enough to say with some certainty that New Hampshire tonight has made Bill Clinton the comeback kid. 


[Crowd Cheering]


HUNT: Clinton mounted a comeback in that primary by getting the voters on his side. But I think the problem with Blagojevich is that, as we've talked about, the public really just did not get behind him this whole time. He got impeached, he got sentenced to prison. But, Jackie, the public actually didn't have the last word here. So what do you think? Should we call it a comeback?


KETTLER: Well, this is where those comparisons to Donald Trump become even more interesting in the least surprising turn of events imaginable, Blagojevich, before he's sentenced to prison, becomes a contestant on Donald Trump's reality TV show The Celebrity Apprentice. It doesn't go well for him.


TRUMP: I have great respect for you. I have great respect for your tenacity, for the fact that you just don't give up. But, Rod, you're fired.


HUNT: So Trump couldn't give Blagojevich a comeback on The Apprentice. But luckily for Rod, presidents can when Trump becomes president, the job comes with the power to pardon individuals convicted of federal crimes. And in 2020, Trump decides to commute Blagojevich's 14 year prison sentence. So it's not a full pardon. The conviction is still on his record, but Blagojevich is a free man.


KETTLER: So what does Blagojevich then do after he gets out of prison?


HUNT: Shockingly, Jackie, given his history, he starts to make lots of appearances in the media on cable news. Uninteresting but I think for him, probably a smart career path to take given his talents with the media.


KETTLER: Yeah, I mean, he probably enjoys it.


HUNT: I mean, I don't know, Jackie, particularly in Illinois. Do you think an actual political comeback would be possible for him?


KETTLER: It seems unlikely at this stage, but as we'll talk about in future episodes, you may never say never in politics. [Music] Let's move to our final category that we'll call party favors. You know, the show is about over, but we wanted to give you some little nuggets of information, quotations, or fun facts that didn't quite make it into the meat of the episode. Plus, party favors are probably accurate descriptions of the misdeeds we've seen here. Perhaps. Charlie, what is some interesting stuff that you found along the way?


HUNT: One is that after he is released from prison after having his sentence commuted by Donald Trump, Blagojevich does something that we thought was a good idea too, Jackie, and he launches a podcast, a politics themed podcast, and he calls it 'The Lightning Rod', which I mean, I don't I don't think I could think of a better podcast title for, for a podcast starring Rod Blagojevich.


KETTLER: I mean, it's pretty great.


HUNT: You know, one other thing with Blagojevich is that he's weirdly obsessed with Elvis.


BLAGOJEVICH: Let me say that in June of 1972, before he performed at Madison Square Garden, he met with the press, which was something he didn't do a lot of. And the first thing he said to the press was innocent of all charges. And I want to paraphrase. In fact, I want to quote Elvis and tell you I am innocent of all charges.


HUNT: And my favorite part of this obsession is that while he is in the federal penitentiary, Blagojevich becomes the lead singer for a prison band called, of course, The Jailhouse Rockers, named after an Elvis Presley song.


BLAGOJEVICH: Let's rock, everybody, let's rock! Everybody in the whole cell block was dancing to the jailhouse rock. Dancing to the jailhouse rock. Dancing to the jailhouse rock. Dancing to the jailhouse rock. Everybody who was in the block. Dancing to the jailhouse Rock.


HUNT: Sadly, the band dissolved when the lead guitarist was released from prison. So long live the jailhouse rockers!


CREDITS: This episode was written by me, Charlie Hunt and Jackie Kettler. It was produced and edited by me with support from our crack researcher Peyton Jenkins. Our theme music is by Dear Room with incidental sound from Shutterstock music. We owe special thanks to Jeff Cohen and John Chase of the Chicago Tribune, whose reporting was essential to this research effort. And we didn't have to bribe them for it either, particularly their book on Rod Blagojevich fittingly entitled Golden. If you're interested in learning more grisly details about this whole sordid affair, you should absolutely check that out. If the only content you're interested in is podcasts, we strongly endorse a podcast called Public Official A from WBEZ Chicago. Other key sources included NBC five, Chicago, Chicago Magazine, the Chicago Tribune, and the always amazing C-Span. 


[Music]


KETTLER: Next week on Scandalized.


UNKNOWN: A political mystery in South Carolina.


UNKNOWN: The Republican governor in that state has disappeared.


KETTLER: We hiked the Appalachian Trail. Or do we?


UNKNOWN: He was off writing, and then we found out he was on the Appalachian Trail. What's the deal? I think it's a disgrace. I think he ought to be ashamed of himself. I think he's an embarrassment to our country.


KETTLER: A story about another governor who in 2009, disappeared without a trace from the state he was supposed to be running. Where did he turn up? The answer is pretty scandalous.